- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

Gunpowder taggant solution
by ichudov＠algebra.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I think that the gunpowder taggants are not as bad as it seems at first sight. EVen if all gunpowders are sold with taggants, and if there is enough people wishing to defeat them, they can simply organize gunpowder mixing parties at gun shows. After several such parties, the taggants might become completely useless. - Igor.

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Re: Gunpowder taggant solution
by jim＠mentat.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Igor said: > I think that the gunpowder taggants are not as bad as it seems at first > sight. EVen if all gunpowders are sold with taggants, and if there is > enough people wishing to defeat them, they can simply organize gunpowder > mixing parties at gun shows. After several such parties, the taggants > might become completely useless. I'm woefully ignorant about reloading, but would this really work? Would you mix your high-quality smokeless with Tim's homebrew black powder, Toto's pebble-ground Canada Red Doobie Mix, and Bell's stinkbomb components and take away the average? Or are different types of powder visually distinct enough or similar enough in effect to mix and match effectively? Jim Gillogly

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17 Dec '03

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credit card conventional wisdom
by Vladimir Z. Nuri 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I've been seeing a particular meme-nugget of conventional wisdom circulating in reference to credit cards that I'd like to debunk. (recently showed up in the WSJ, "Boardwatch" magazine editorial column, etc). these legends and thinkings are starting to annoy me to the point of becoming a pet peeve. the argument goes like this: secure credit card number uploading schemes (such as in Netscape) are not important on the internet because credit card numbers are already insecure. you give them to low-wage workers all the time who might steal the number from you anyway. there are a lot of fallacies with this. I find this to be a key cypherpunk issue, and I hope others will agree to the point of trying to attack this fallacy through letters to the editor, debates, etc., because it seems to rationalize weak security. - 1st point: yes, you do give credit cards to low wage workers in businesses, but this is not directly parallel to sending a credit card over the internet. the fuzzy thinking goes like this: "credit card numbers are already not secure. therefore, trying to secure them is frivolous". this is patently ridiculous on the face of it. it's circular reasoning. credit card numbers could become more secure if all businesses made them more secure. getting all businesses to make them secure is part of the battle. raising consciousness on the issue is part of the battle. saying, "there is no point" is a copout imho. - the insecurity of sending a card over the net could be far better or worse than that of handing it to an individual. 1st, when you send a number over the net, potentially anyone (including people other than the destination business) could spy on it. when you give it to someone in a company, only that representative (who would be trusted by the company) has access to it. or, alternately, maybe no one could *ever* see your card sent over the internet, including workers at the end site, who never deal with the numbers directly. such a system is possible and may become the norm. but not if shallow-thinking people can't imagine it as possible. - it is not impossible to have cards that don't have numbers but instead have magnetic stripes, and the only way for them to work is to be physically scanned. this would reduce fraud but would also reduce the convenience of sending numbers over the phone (mail order) for example. I'm not saying all cards should be this way, but it might make sense for some people to get a "scan only card" that cannot be used unless physically scanned. the point is that there are variations on the credit card theme that make them more secure, and there's a bit of a hurdle in getting Joe Sixpack to realize this, and realize it's desirable. - the boardwatch magazine editor argued that uploading credit card numbers over the internet in a secure fashion is a "non problem" because credit cards are already insecure. have you ever heard of PROGRESS, mr. bonehead? if the net began to make credit transactions more secure, perhaps that would create a momentum in which other offline businesses might become more strict or careful about credit card security. - credit card fraud is absolutely enormous in this country. and there are not really any very strong safeguards against it except a lot of "security through obscurity" (of credit card numbers). *everyone* pays the cost of this horrible fraud rate through increased transaction charges, higher interest rates, etc. just because you may not see it itemized on your credit card bill, does not mean you are not paying for it. (in much the same way that a sort of "shoplifting tax" is reflected in the cost of all merchandise). - the internet may eventually become completely secure. arguing that "we don't need security on the internet because we don't have it in the business world of daily credit card use, and they get along fine" is ridiculously simplistic and specious. the fact is that businesses do *not* really like many aspects of credit cards: low security, overhead costs, cost of interface devices to the credit card companies, etc. all these negative ingredients could be improved in cyberspace. but it won't happen if every time a new superior system comes along, someone argues, "but there's nothing wrong with what we have now!!!" when this is quite obviously mistaken to anyone with any minimal background& understanding in the area. furthermore, consumers are somewhat notorious for not really knowing what they want, and sometimes arguing against something they would buy or use in the future. == I'm continually amazed at how often security issues are mixed up in people's brains and reasoning. there are a lot of fallacies that work their way into respectable writing by reputable people that tend to mirror circular reasoning such as, "if something is insecure already, it makes no point to try to make a piece of it more secure". security is sometimes won slowly in increments, in which one could argue against each increment as useless or inconsequential, but the end result could lead to far better security. furthermore, there are a lot of different kinds of security weaknesses-- there is not a simple black-and-white measurement of "secure" vs. "insecure" but a lot of intermediate gradations. attempts to get secure credit card number transfer on the internet are not an end in themselves. they are the first steps toward an entirely new transaction system. those who see a single step and criticize it as feeble in the context of past systems are missing the point and apparently can't think past the present nanosecond of their lives.

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More Tools for ILEA
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

NYT, May 17, 1998, on the Birmingham Summit: G8 leaders spent considerable time discussing arrangements for international cooperation in fighting cross-border crimes like money-laundering, computer fraud and arms smuggling. In a communique, the leaders endrosed efforts to negotiate a United Nations agreement to provide law enforcement officials with more tools to fight international organized crime. They called for talks with the business community on an international legal framework for obtaining computer data as evidence in criminal cases, while preserving privacy protections. ----- A pointer to the communique or other G8 reports from this session would be welcomed.

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Returned mail: User unknown
by Mail Delivery Subsystem 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The original message was received at Sun, 17 May 1998 17:39:44 -0400 (EDT) from uucp@localhost ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- eureka-sc.895438334.pldjlkahcagchhlcjjic-cypherpunks=toad.com(a)eureka.abc-web.com ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to eureka.abc-web.com.: >>> RCPT To:<eureka-sc.895438334.pldjlkahcagchhlcjjic-cypherpunks=toad.com(a)eureka.abc-web.com> <<< 553 sorry, your envelope sender is in my badmailfrom list (#5.7.1) 550 eureka-sc.895438334.pldjlkahcagchhlcjjic-cypherpunks=toad.com(a)eureka.abc-web.com... User unknown Reporting-MTA: dns; www.video-collage.com Arrival-Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 17:39:44 -0400 (EDT) Final-Recipient: RFC822; eureka-sc.895438334.pldjlkahcagchhlcjjic-cypherpunks=toad.com(a)eureka.abc-web.com Action: failed Status: 5.1.1 Remote-MTA: DNS; eureka.abc-web.com Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 553 sorry, your envelope sender is in my badmailfrom list (#5.7.1) Last-Attempt-Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 17:39:45 -0400 (EDT) To: eureka-sc.895438334.pldjlkahcagchhlcjjic-cypherpunks=toad.com(a)eureka.abc-web.com Subject: Now we need your reply! (fwd)bc-web.com From: cypherpunks(a)toad.Com Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 16:36:27 -0500 (CDT) eureka-help(a)eureka.abc-web.com wrote: > From owner-cypherpunks(a)Algebra.Com Sun May 17 16:24:16 1998 > Mailing-List: contact eureka-help(a)eureka.abc-web.com; run by ezmlm > Date: 17 May 1998 20:52:14 -0000 > Message-ID: <895438334.21977.ezmlm(a)eureka.abc-web.com> > From: eureka-help(a)eureka.abc-web.com > To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com > Reply-To: eureka-sc.895438334.pldjlkahcagchhlcjjic-cypherpunks=toad.com(a)eureka.abc-web.com > Delivered-To: responder for eureka(a)eureka.abc-web.com > Subject: Now we need your reply! > Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)Algebra.Com > Precedence: bulk > X-Mailing-List: cypherpunks(a)algebra.com > X-List-Admin: ichudov(a)algebra.com > X-Loop: cypherpunks(a)algebra.com > > > We have received a subscription request for the Eureka! > Adult Newsletter to be sent to your email address. To > confirm this request, please use the Reply function on your > email program to send this email back to us. > > If you do not reply to this email we will assume you have > changed your mind, or may have been the victim of a 'prank'. > If you did not enter your email address at one of our web- > sites then somebody else has done so for you. If you do not > wish to receive the newsletters just ignore this email. Or > you can click below to have your email address permanently > blocked from ever receiving any of our future mailings. > Block me -----> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/blockme.htm > > - The Eureka! Adult Newsletter Team. > > > The following lines identify the source of this subscription > request, including date/time, IP number and browser used. > > HEADER1=13:52 Pacific Time Sunday May 17 1998 > HEADER2=199.203.203.194 Mozilla/3.0Gold (Win95; I) >

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Looking for that Perfect Christmas Gift?
by egnarr＠rbc.edu 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Newsletter
by John C 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I'm getting ready to put out another newsletter. But I can only do it with ya'll's help. if possible, could everyone send me an article or anything at all for the newsletter? Thanks John pleontks(a)hotmail.com http://members.tripod.com/~pleontks ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

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Returned mail: User unknown
by Mail Delivery Subsystem 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The original message was received at Sun, 17 May 1998 23:58:55 -0700 (PDT) from pax-ca11-11.ix.netcom.com [204.30.66.171] ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- <eureka-help(a)eureka.abc-web.com> ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to eureka.abc-web.com.: >>> RCPT To:<eureka-help(a)eureka.abc-web.com> <<< 553 sorry, your envelope sender is in my badmailfrom list (#5.7.1) 550 <eureka-help(a)eureka.abc-web.com>... User unknown ----- Original message follows ----- Return-Path: <cypherpunks(a)toad.com> Received: from ca07b8bl (pax-ca11-11.ix.netcom.com [204.30.66.171]) by netcomsv.netcom.com (8.8.5-r-beta/8.8.5/(NETCOM v1.01)) with SMTP id XAA18419; Sun, 17 May 1998 23:58:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980517235334.008e0210(a)popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: stewarts(a)popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 23:53:34 -0700 To: eureka-help(a)eureka.abc-web.com, abuse(a)abc-web.com From: Bill Stewart <cypherpunks(a)toad.com> Subject: unsubscribe In-Reply-To: <895458516.7940.ezmlm(a)eureka.abc-web.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable unsubscribe end cypherpunks is a list with several hundred subscribers. Some spammer has been trying to subscribe the list to your service. Earlier today I connected to the web site and found that somebody else had permanently removed most of the list aliases, but you seem to be sending out this announcement anyway. At 02:28 AM 5/18/98 -0000, you wrote: >WELCOME TO EUREKA! >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >Congratulations, your free subscription to the Eureka! >newsletter is now set up. We hope you enjoy every copy. >As promised, while you wait for your first newsletter >here are the links to the FREE videos and FREE photos! > >BIENVENUE =C0 EUREKA! >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >F=E9licitations, votre abonnement libre =E0 l'Eureka! le >bulletin est maintenant install=E9. Nous esp=E9rons que >vous appr=E9ciez chaque copie. Comme promis, alors que >vous attendez votre premier bulletin ici sont les liens >aux videos LIBRES et aux photos LIBRES! > >WILLKOMMEN ZU EUREKA! >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >Gl=FCckw=FCnsche, Ihre freie Subskription zum Eureka! >Rundschreiben wird jetzt oben eingestellt. Wir hoffen, >da=DF Sie jedes Exemplar genie=DFen. Wie, w=E4hrend Sie Ihr >erstes Rundschreiben hier warten, sind die Links zu den >FREIEN videos und zu den FREIEN Fotos versprochen!=20 > >RECEPCI=D3N A EUREKA! >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >Felicitaciones, su suscripci=F3n libre al Eureka! el >bolet=EDn de noticias ahora se fija para arriba. >Esperamos que usted goce de cada copia. Seg=FAn lo >prometido, mientras que usted espera su primer bolet=EDn >de noticias aqu=ED son las conexiones a los videos LIBRES >y a las fotos LIBRES! > >BENVENUTO A EUREKA! >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >Congratulazioni, il vostro abbonamento libero al >Eureka! il bollettino ora =E8 installato. Speriamo che >godiate ogni copia. Come promesso, mentre aspettate il >vostro primo bollettino qui sono i collegamenti ai vid- >eos LIBERI ed alle foto LIBERE! > >BOA VINDA A EUREKA! >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >Felicita=E7=F5es, sua subscri=E7=E3o livre ao Eureka! o boletim >de not=EDcias =E9 ajustado agora acima. N=F3s esperamos que >voc=EA aprec=EDe cada c=F3pia. Como prometidas, quando voc=EA >esperar seu primeiro boletim de not=EDcias aqui s=E3o as >liga=E7=F5es aos videos LIVRES e =E0s fotos LIVRES! > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >FREE hardcore videos ........ http://www.slutorama.com/ >FREE hardcore photos .... http://209.50.232.36/desires/ >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > >The following lines identify the source of this subscription >request, including date/time, IP number and browser used. > > >

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Re: unsubscribe
by Robin Nixon 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Please give me the exact address to block - we already blocked all we know of yours. - Robin. -----Original Message----- From: Bill Stewart <cypherpunks(a)toad.com> To: eureka-help(a)eureka.abc-web.com <eureka-help(a)eureka.abc-web.com>; abuse(a)abc-web.com <abuse(a)abc-web.com> Date: Monday, May 18, 1998 12:05 AM Subject: unsubscribe >unsubscribe >end >cypherpunks is a list with several hundred subscribers. >Some spammer has been trying to subscribe the list >to your service. Earlier today I connected to the >web site and found that somebody else had >permanently removed most of the list aliases, >but you seem to be sending out this announcement anyway. > >At 02:28 AM 5/18/98 -0000, you wrote: >>WELCOME TO EUREKA! >>================== >>Congratulations, your free subscription to the Eureka! >>newsletter is now set up. We hope you enjoy every copy. >>As promised, while you wait for your first newsletter >>here are the links to the FREE videos and FREE photos! >> >>BIENVENUE À EUREKA! >>=================== >>Félicitations, votre abonnement libre à l'Eureka! le >>bulletin est maintenant installé. Nous espérons que >>vous appréciez chaque copie. Comme promis, alors que >>vous attendez votre premier bulletin ici sont les liens >>aux videos LIBRES et aux photos LIBRES! >> >>WILLKOMMEN ZU EUREKA! >>===================== >>Glückwünsche, Ihre freie Subskription zum Eureka! >>Rundschreiben wird jetzt oben eingestellt. Wir hoffen, >>daß Sie jedes Exemplar genießen. Wie, während Sie Ihr >>erstes Rundschreiben hier warten, sind die Links zu den >>FREIEN videos und zu den FREIEN Fotos versprochen! >> >>RECEPCIÓN A EUREKA! >>=================== >>Felicitaciones, su suscripción libre al Eureka! el >>boletín de noticias ahora se fija para arriba. >>Esperamos que usted goce de cada copia. Según lo >>prometido, mientras que usted espera su primer boletín >>de noticias aquí son las conexiones a los videos LIBRES >>y a las fotos LIBRES! >> >>BENVENUTO A EUREKA! >>=================== >>Congratulazioni, il vostro abbonamento libero al >>Eureka! il bollettino ora è installato. Speriamo che >>godiate ogni copia. Come promesso, mentre aspettate il >>vostro primo bollettino qui sono i collegamenti ai vid- >>eos LIBERI ed alle foto LIBERE! >> >>BOA VINDA A EUREKA! >>=================== >>Felicitações, sua subscrição livre ao Eureka! o boletim >>de notícias é ajustado agora acima. Nós esperamos que >>você aprecíe cada cópia. Como prometidas, quando você >>esperar seu primeiro boletim de notícias aqui são as >>ligações aos videos LIVRES e às fotos LIVRES! >> >>======================================================= >>FREE hardcore videos ........ http://www.slutorama.com/ >>FREE hardcore photos .... http://209.50.232.36/desires/ >>======================================================= >> >>The following lines identify the source of this subscription >>request, including date/time, IP number and browser used. >> >> >>

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