- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

[URGENT] Zero-knowledge commit
by lucifer＠dhp.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Timmy May prefers to have sex with little kids because his own penis is like that of a three-year-old. ! ! - - * * Timmy May ( < ) o

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Re: Sabotaging Big Brother Inside Corporate Complicity
by nobody＠huge.cajones.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Kent Crispin wrote: > Owners of a business have the right to control the documents > associated with their business as they see fit, including using key > escrow and mandating it for all keys used by employees in the > business. Other companies see this as an opportunity to supply a > service or a product that facilitates this management. Both classes > of companies are pursuing completely legitimate ends. Therefore, > your call to sabatoge is doomed to failure in the long run, and > probably in the short run as well. And owners of a body and mind have a right to control the physical and mental environment that they live in, including using any means necessary to protect natural human rights that have been stolen by governments and profited from by companies who will help promote this theft for the right price. Tim's call to sabatoge is not doomed to failure as long as there are still individuals who have a conscience (and know how to use it.) People asked to build a potential Nazi death camp should always avail themselves of an option to build in a backdoor, in case the need should ever arise to use it. Or build a timebomb in a tank that can be activated if it is needed to destroy an advancing army of oppressors. Like it or not, we live in a predatorial universe, where the biggest carnivors make the 'rules' so that they get the lion's share of the meat, and thus remain the largest in the pack. Each organism, however, has their own strengths and their own methods of survival. Anyone who helps build the road to their own destruction, without availing themselves of every opportunity to sabatoge construction of that road, is a fool. The fact that a slave owner keeps his slaves well-fed and comfortable enough to cause him little trouble does not negate the fact that, when it better suits his purpose, he will use the whip to keep others in subjection to him. The time to make preparations for safety and flight is not after you are thrown in chains. The time is alwasy _now_. The fact is, there are many ways of preparing for future action which infringe little or none on the rights of others to act in their own best interest. Arming oneself to defend against possible threats doesn't infringe on others rights to defend themselves.. Armed groups passing laws to prevent others from being able to defend themselves does. No matter what lengths the government goes to to infringe on basic human rights, there will always be individuals and corporations fighting over who gets to profit from the actions, all the while claiming, "We don't put them in the ovens, we just turn on the gas." Do corporations have more rights than the citizens? That depends entirely on the citizens. TruthMonger "We have met the enemy, and he is Kent."

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Re: hi-tech ROT-13
by nobody＠huge.cajones.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Andy Dustman wrote: > > The main problem I see with the various key-passing schemes is that they > aren't useful if the receipient is cryptographically-challenged, which is > why I'm presently inclined to stick with just the magic cookie exchange > without crypto (unless the recipient can supply a PGP public key). Andy seems to realize something that many people don't, which is that all of the cypherpunk discussions as to security, privacy and anonymity are just preaching to the converted unless the end result is a program that the average joe can actually use. I am personally GUI-challenged, but that is what most people know and can actually work with. Even then, the average user doesn't know enough about his or her system and software to do anything remotely exotic to install it. What you or I might consider simplistic (e.g. changes to a config.sys file), might be a journey onto dangerous ground for someone who may have to pay someone $50.00/hr or more in order to get their machine running again if something gets screwed up. The bottom line is that people want something that they halfway recognize and feel comfortable with, and is written to be self- installable by someone who actually knows what the hell all those things inside their computer do. I used to tell people, "I invented a pill that cures Alzheimer's, but it doesn't do any good, because nobody remembers to take it." If the goal is to make anonymous remailers available to those who need them, then one must also consider the computer knowledge and capabilities of those who have a genuine need for anonymity for safety reasons. Assholes and the spammers will always take the time to learn what they need to know to spread their bullshit, but what about people who have a one or two-time legitimate need to pass information along in saftey? Even though unencoded, direct use of an anonymous remailer is not that complicated, many people today think that a command line is "Sit, Rover, sit!" and if you ask them about syntax they look at you funny and say they think they paid it when they bought the condoms. Raph Levien's list of remailers is great, but he fails to give simple instructions as to how to get remailer help/instructions from different remailers. And some of the remailers autobot help replies are rather vague even to those who know computers well. The Anonymous Nymserver <anon(a)anon.nymserver.com> was a great, easy to use GUI interface that Jane Average could use, but it seemed to be some kind of interesting programming project to its author, who folded at the first hint of trouble, expressing great surprise that there are assholes in the world. After folding, his great concern seemed to be to find somebody to buy his software, which he had just finished explaining would cause a great deal of grief to anyone who chose to run it. (And if you act now, we'll stab you with the Amazing Ginzu knives!) Actually, however, he is still providing services for people who pay a slight sum ($20/yr ??), so he is actually furthering the spread of anonymous remailers, even if he is limiting them in some ways. (I had no problem with him wanting some reimbursement for his efforts in writing the software. It's just that he sounded like he wanted someone to pay premium dollars for his learning curve in order to buy his software so that they could run it as a free service to others.) If remailers are to survive, then programs have to be written that address the capabilities and morals of a new breed of user. Although I appreciate the efforts of many cypherpunks who originally had a hand in developing the remailer system, I am not so naieve as to think it was all done merely for humanitarian reasons, etc. The question is, now that many of the cypherpunks have moved on to busier lives, and the programming details that were once "fun" are now "work," are there still those who have a committment to advance the development of the remailers, at least partially as a public service, or to encourage and help those who may not have the expertise, but who are willing to learn? I have read complaints about the thanklessness of providing a service that provides an avenue for abuse, with little indication of actually providing essential privacy needs for those in genuine need of security in anonymous communications. Yet those most in need of this type of service for legitimate anonymity may only be a one-time user, and computer illiterate, unable to use anything other than a GUI. If the cypherpunks want to wax eloquently about good intentions then we must change the technology to enable those intentions to come to fruitation in today's Net climate, or remailers will go the way of the dinosaurs, being of use only to a few elite and a plethora of assholes. Although I have little expertise in the technical area surrounding remailers, I do not take lightly my call for the remailer theorists to actually walk their talk, and produce a product suitable for general use. I have risked my physical freedom in the past in order to bring information and knowledge to those in oppression, and will likely do so again in the future. (As a matter of fact, one of the items which I risked life and limb carrying into a fascist state was a cypherpunk product. Spooks who get caught doing this get 'traded' back to the home team, but ordinary citizens do not.) TruthMonger

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Re: Analysis of proposed UK ban on use of non-escrowed crypto.
by nobody＠huge.cajones.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Kent Crispin dribbled syphlyrically: > Like it or not, businesses like -- no, *need* -- key escrow -- company > secrets can't go down the drain because someone gets hit by a truck. An exact quote from some of your earlier posts. Are you working from a cheat-sheet? Is someone _telling_ you what to say? Are they holding your kids hostage and _making_ you say this? Is it time for Big Brother to hire some fresh writers? TruthMonger

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tiggers
by lucifer＠dhp.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Before reading the rest of this message make a wish. __ _-==-=_,-. The wonderful things aboutTiggers /--`' \_@~@.--< Is Tiggers are wonderful things. `--'\ \ <___/. Their tops are made out of rubber, \ \\ " / Theirbottoms are made out ofsprings. >=\\_/`< They're bouncy, trouncy, ____ /= | \_/ Flouncy, pouncy, _' `\ _/=== \__/ Fun, fun, fun, fun, fun! `___/ //\./=/~\====\ But the best thing about Tiggers is \ // / | ===| I'm the only one! | ._/_,__|_ ==| __ \/ \\ \\`=-| / \\ | _ \\| /==|-\ `.__' `-____/ |--|==| \ \ ===\ |==|`-' _> \ ===\ /==/ /==\ | ===\__/--/ <=== \ / ====\ \\/ _`-- \/ === \/--' | \ ==== | -`------/`--' / \___-' *If you read this on a Sunday, wish for a really fun week *If you read this on a Monday, wish for money *If you read this on a Tuesday, wish for love *If you read this on a Wednesday, wish for success *If you read this on a Thursday, wish for anything you want *If you read this on a Friday, wish for a really hot date *If you read this on a Saturday, wish for an important phone call Send this to seven people (after you make a wish). Make sure it is mailed as soon as you read it or your wish won't come true. REMEMBER, make a WISH, send this letter (and hope it happens)

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q.N
by nadeshda＠mexred.net.mx 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

To whom it may concern: My name is Nadeshda Vargas Stepanenko, I`m a Law Student from Mexico City and I`m writing this letter because in one of my classes I was asigned to do a discertation on what can be done to control the Internet in relation to it`s content and use, to protect the public at large using the methods to protect your privacy. I have found a lot of information of these servidors, but the reason to write this e-mail is for asking some questions about the subject: 1) It would be convenient to legislate this methods? 2) You can use them, for example, in Mexico? 3) Do you think it would be necessary to create an International Association for solving the problems in the Internet? 4) What do you think about legislation of the Internet, and how the lawyers may resolve these situations? I would be very thankful if you send me only a briefly opinion about this questions, it is very important for me because it is not an easy job.

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Geodesic Warfare: The Mesh and the Net
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Anthony Templar took the text file I had of THE MESH AND THE NET Speculations on Armed Conflict in a Time of Free Silicon MARTIN C. LIBICKI McNair Paper 29 March 1994 INSTITUTE FOR NATIONAL STRATEGIC STUDIES NATIONAL DEFENSE UNIVERSITY Washington, D.C. bashed it quite nicely into HTML, and parked it at <http://www.shipwright.com/meshnet.html>. Somebody put a pointer to the original site -- which I have since lost -- on cypherpunks a couple of years ago, and I downloaded the text version, then, thinking that I would have a copy of my own if it was ever taken off the net. Altavista was just getting started at the time, and, like a turn-of-the-century British dancehall character named Archie (the namesake for World War I antiaircraft fire), Altavista was busy looking up the dress of every website it could find, and telling everyone what it saw. :-). No telling when stuff would go away, especially after the webmasters' bosses found out about it. It dawns on me that both comic book and internet protocol Archies were aptly named, in hindsight... Anyway, thanks to Anthony for doing such a nice job on what looks like a 65-page paper. It's about 250k+ in size. Its e$ relevance, of course, is, what happens if there's a cash settled market for force, and these increasingly smaller, autonomous, networked weapons auction their services in that market? Also, the paper talks about how these weapons could be used to effectively defend very small pieces of ground, certainly at the level of your average suburban house. Personal warfare? The Swiss, the original Icelanders, and the pre-British Irish must be smiling somewhere. Lions and Tigers and Bears. Oh, my. Cheers, Bob Hettinga ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA Lesley Stahl: "You mean *anyone* can set up a web site and compete with the New York Times?" Andrew Kantor: "Yes." Stahl: "Isn't that dangerous?" The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/

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FC 97 and www.offshore.com.ai offline
by Jim Burnes 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Has anyone been able to reach www.offshore.com.ai for the last several weeks. I've been trying to follow up with some email to Vince about getting my fellow FC '97 attendees' email addresses, but to no avail. If anyone on the list was at the conference, or has such a list I would appreciate it. BTW: hi to lucky green, eric blossom, vince and everyone that made FC 97 a wild adventure. jim burnes jim.burnes(a)ssds.com Jim Burnes Engineer, Western Security, SSDS Inc jim.burnes(a)ssds.com ---- Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the forms of kings to govern him? Let history answer this question. -Thomas Jefferson, 1st Inaugural Addr

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Re: Sabotaging Big Brother Inside Corporate Complicity
by Toto 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hal Finney wrote: > There are two somewhat related technologies being discussed here, as Kent > lists: key escrow and multiple encryption. > > However, as Tim points out, really both approaches can be adapted to > a Big Brother situation. If the government can force you to escrow > your keys, it could equally well force you to encrypt to the FBI as an > additional recipient. Key escrow amounts to both and more. In escrowing your keys, you are doing so to the FBI, the CIA, the Department of Agriculture, Social Services, the janitor at the Key Escrow holding facility, etc. Should we put our faith in the 'good intentions' claimed by those promoting key escrow? Talk to the grandmothers whose cars were confiscated because their dear grandson left a roach in the ashtray, under authority of the laws that were supposed to thwart drug kingpins. Key escrow is needed so that grandmothers of the future, plugging the parking meters of strangers with eCa$h, cannot escape prosecution by using encryption. > I see > supporting multiple recipients in the way outlined above as being an > effort to *avoid* building "big brother inside". Otherwise key escrow > is what many employees are going to get. If other people don't see it > that way, I'd like to know. In lean econonomical times, employees tend to get whatever they are given...end of story. If the employees are to get something other than Big Brother type of control over their work-lives, then it is up to those such as the CypherPunks and others who value privacy to promote viable options for corporations to choose from in the security area. If the only security options that a corporate manager has is no control or total control, then there will be those who will be forced by circumstances to opt for the latter, regardless of whether they find it personally distasteful. Indeed, members of the Tim C. May Corporate Sabatoge Revolutionary Committee may well find that they can sabatoge the government's evil intentions without harming their employer's position, merely by making an effort to ensure that their company's product gives the undercover Human Rights agents that have infiltrated corporate management an option to choose a product that they can customize with a view toward maintaining both company security and employee privacy. Let's face it, the government will roll over anyone who is unarmed, and have Kent issue a press release suggesting that the citizens were crying out for tank-tread marks on their backs. The solution is to provide as many workable products/solutions as possible for those who feel a need for encryption, so that they may customize their use of it according to their own inclinations and level of conscience. The government always seems to have extra munitions on hand to give to would-be dictators, it is up to disorganizations such as the CypherPunks to make certain that the citizens have the opportunity to arm themselves, as well. -- Toto "The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre" http://bureau42.base.org/public/xenix/xenbody.html

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Re: LJL into key-escrow? (was Re: The Balloon is Going Up....criminalization of noncompliant crypto)
by Kent Crispin 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Wed, Apr 02, 1997 at 12:26:55PM -0600, Toto wrote: [...] > > Kent, > You should try to refrain from embarassing yourself by referring > to the above as "reasoning". Obviously, I embarass easily. > I'm of a like mind with Bill Stewart and Dr. Robert's, or whoever, > who appear to think that compromises on privacy and freedom lead to > yellow stars and barbed-wire fences. Do you work for a living? > Now, if you could just give us similar examples to illustrate > how the burdgeoning market for Zyklon-B showed that corporations > *really wanted* the Holocaust... Hitler again. You lose. -- Kent Crispin "No reason to get excited", kent(a)songbird.com the thief he kindly spoke... PGP fingerprint: B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44 61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55 http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html

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