- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

Re: AW: binding cryptography
by roy＠sendai.scytale.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In your mail, you write: > That is correct. Sorry that the BTW-statement is so evident. Some people > did not understand that if you *do* agree, then you *can* be breaking any > rules... Which of course implies that to be effective, the system can't allow anyone to opt out. > >Which they will, and presumably already do. Therefore, your proposal > >does not and cannot hamper criminals. Therefore, your proposal only > >hampers law abiding citizen-units' access to uncompromised crypto. > > I do not agree. For instance, the encryption possibilities of wordperfect, > and MS-word are weak; my mail-system (ms-exchange) does not have any > encryption at all. The security of these important Custom of The Shelf > products can and will be enhanced.. And as I pointed out above, the system only works when compromised-key crypto is all that is available. Where there are more secure options available, people will choose them. Your example is a good one: WordPerfect, MS Word and MS Exchange may well choose key-compromised crypto to gain the approval of the state. Thus, those products will never have real security. I can't agree that key-compromised crypto is secure at all, as it requires that some third party hold key (or the means to recover keys). You may argue that the supposed TRP can actually be trusted. I'm not willing to grant that trust without good cause. In the case of governments, I'm simply not willing to grant that trust at all. (to be fair, I acknowledge that the USA is not the Netherlands, and you may not understand Americans' distrust of our government) > The point is that public available systems should *aid* not them in their > criminal activities, let them search for alternatives. Compare it with the > legislation we have here on the sell of guns. You sort of say: hey, that > does not help cause criminals will get it somewhere. I say, that is true, > but it will make their lifes more difficult, or maybe I should say less > easy. My point is that I, as a member of the public, should not be restricted in *my* choices. Just as gun control laws make it harder for me to lawfully purchase and own a gun, your proposal makes it harder for me to lawfully obtain strong cryptography. The obvious difference is that guns are capable of inflicting fatal damage to humans, where cryptography is not. > >Registration plates do not "stop criminals". Locks do not "stop > >criminals" (although they might slow a criminal down). Neither will > >compromised crypto "stop criminals". But all the above impinge on my > >liberty. Am I to give up yet another freedom? > > Our system slows down criminals too, or maybe I'd better say does > not speed them up. And it also makes me more vulnerable. You are asking me to compromise my own security because some other person might abuse his own capability. Will you also ask that I allow my muscles to atrophy to the point where I cannot inflict damage with a blow from my fist, because others might decide to fight? It is important to remember that cryptography is 100% defensive. It _cannot_ be used in an offensive manner. Any plan to weaken or restrict cryptography is a plan to disallow defenses. How can you ask me to leave myself vulnerable to attackers? > We believe our system gives a solution in which every democratic > country on his own implement to their middle, without losing > connectivity with countries that think otherwise. Repressive states will endeavor not to allow connectivity with non-repressive states. Your plan only facilitates the repressors. Thus, you offer weapons of repression to governments. Still think it's such a good idea? - -- Roy M. Silvernail [ ] roy(a)scytale.com DNRC Minister Plenipotentiary of All Things Confusing, Software Division PGP Public Key fingerprint = 31 86 EC B9 DB 76 A7 54 13 0B 6A 6B CC 09 18 B6 Key available from pubkey(a)scytale.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMmRoQxvikii9febJAQHOvAQAhzUvsJapB+lBWM0MNjkOPFg0PtIFIKID 7uhWjzQ7Lwp7WlCeiqcB9+AdZuQMxAC/cq4uJai98jv8/5ba3t1uPiLMIx+ytSAN q8UURDF3CWaX5TAzrC0OvdPUc+LONXVBebX0PMtwHaGZfsJWnebschJA36zRIY8Z in8xv1t78Z8= =GITW -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: mail software for multiple addrs
by Ross Wright 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On or About 15 Oct 96 at 18:46, Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote: > 1. multiple internet providers > 2. multiple email accounts > 3. multiple mailing lists How about Pegasus? =-=-=-=-=-=- Ross Wright King Media: Bulk Sales of Software Media and Duplication Services http://www.slip.net/~cdr/kingmedia Voice: 415-206-9906

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Re: "Right to Privacy" and Crypto
by frantz＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 7:40 PM 10/15/96 +0000, attila(a)primenet.com wrote: > the first sort of stands, but consider that the right > to privacy and the freedom of speech should also include > the right NOT to speak --that has been gutted by the > rulings on the fifth. The limits on free speech in the workplace, and their gradual extension to non-work environments make me think the first is going down the tubes too. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz | Tired of Dole/Clinton? | Periwinkle -- Consulting (408)356-8506 | Vote 3rd party. I'm | 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz(a)netcom.com | Voting for Harry Browne | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA

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Your Papers Please!!! (fwd)
by Lucky Green 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

[Hmm, why the hell does pine add the .sig at the beginning of the message?] -- Lucky Green <mailto:shamrock@netcom.com> PGP encrypted mail preferred. Defeat the Demopublican Unity Party. Vote no on Clinton/Dole in November. Vote Harry Browne for President. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: 15 Oct 1996 07:57:21 -0700 From: Johann Opitz <Johann_Opitz(a)smtp.svl.trw.com> To: ca-firearms(a)lists.best.com Subject: Your Papers Please!!! WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Supreme Court Monday (10-7-96) let stand a precedent-setting ruling that states may establish roadblocks for the chief purpose of intercepting illegal drugs. [...] The case arose out of roadblocks Florida law enforcement officials set up on four state highways near the Georgia border in January 1984. [...] About 2,100 vehicles passed through the roadblocks, of which approximately 1,300 were stopped. In all, one person was arrested for the possession of illegal drugs while 61 traffic-related citations were also issued. [...] A federal judge dismissed the lawsuit and a U.S. Court of Appeals in Atlanta agreed. It said the chief purpose of the operation was to intercept drugs, but ruled the state does have the power to conduct roadblocks to check drivers' licenses and vehicle registrations. [...] The attorneys for the motorists urged the Supreme Court to hear the case, saying law enforcement officials around the country were likely to adopt similar temporary, unannounced roadblocks for drugs. But the high court sided with the state of Florida, denying the appeal without any comment or dissent. ======================== Speaking of roadblocks >>>> [ The police officer who wrote the following shows what we have to look forward to. I guess the Supreme Court has decided it is OK to violate our rights just as long as we are all _equally_ violated. -- lk ] Posted to texas-gun-owners by Joe Horn <6mysmesa(a)1eagle1.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Speaking of roadblocks, Saturday, the New Mexico State Police had one set up on NM#404, (14 officers and one Sgt.) stopping all traffic both ways on a desert mountain pass between El Paso and White Sands. When I was stopped, a courteous automaton approached, hand on pistol and asked for my DL and insurance card, and did a visual search of my car. Immediately angered and resentful of this State intrusion and violation of my rights, I handed him the requested documents, and having checked my paperwork, he looks through the window at the back seat area and asks me "what's under the blanket?" I told him his search was going to have to be limited to what he could see as I was not granting a consent search beyond what he could see through the windows of my vehicle after illegally stopping me at this roadblock. Illegal? Pull over there and talk to the nice officers, says he. Yes I said, stopping people for searches in the pretext of seeing their paperwork. Says he: the court said it's OK (in limited roadblocks )as long as we stop everyone. Says I, the court is wrong and it's still unconstitutional, you do not have a warrant and I have broken no law. To me, the fact they did NOT ask for vehicle registration indicated they were fishing. The robot calls his Sgt. over, who takes over and warns me that this can become very unpleasant, and at this point, I show him my retired badge and ID, asking how unpleasant is that? He then says, why didn't you say something, you coulda been gone by now? I told him that I am a plain citizen and suggest he knows what he's doing is wrong and that it's a pure fishing expedition. He angrily said:(and he really surprised me) "Hey, I'm just doing what I'm told, now get outta here before I decide to ruin your day". They cut me loose and drove off, keeping my Ithaca 37 which was under the blanket and 1911A1 under the center console. My point is that this is out of control, and folks are going to start getting hurt in these little European-like (where are your papers?) roadblocks, fishing for whatever they can find. If I didn't have masterbadge and I.D., I would have been illegally and unconstitutionally searched against my will. Very few people have a badge to get them out of something like this, and deferring to intimidation by armed authority, most will have their rights violated. My sense of the roadblock personnel was that excepting the Sgt., they didn't know they were wrong or didn't care. The average age of the officers was late 20's early 30's. Now that they're going to start these around schools, and I assure you that it will be in as high handed a manner as they can manage. Many people don't see or don't want to see what's happening to the Constitution or our human rights recognized by that Constitution, or the Police State being assembled right around the Constitution, in the name of the "drug war" or the "chirrun". It's here and it's here now and if you don't strenuously object to these searches and roadblocks whether for DUI, Drivers License/Insurance/ guns/drugs, and drive your political reps nuts about it, sooner or later you will get the anal probe of an illegal search in the name of the "drug war" or for guns near schools. Of course those that like and feel safer with more unenforceable, useless law and more intrusion (with no effect on criminals, just the violation of honest citizens rights) may you be hoisted on your own petard, and soon. As I waited in line to be searched in this desolate and remote desert location, I reflected on my extensive police and military training and experience and thought that these roadblocks are really quite vulnerable out there in the desert so far from backup. Quite vulnerable......It's going to get ugly one day when folks decide they've had enough. And if statists don't think it can happen here, just visualize a larger scale resentment of the "man" beyond Watts. Like the black minority, the white minority within the white majority has it's limits in absorbing the abuses and effects of the ever intrusive Police State. What really bothered me, (in spite of my training and familiarity with police operations) was my own barely repressible reaction of fear, being trapped, resentment, mistrust, disrespect and intense dislike and the powerful urge to immediately, actively and physically resist this infringement of my right of unrestricted and peaceful travel. Fortunately, I didn't have to act because unlike most of my fellow citizens, I had a retired peace officer's badge. What about those that feel like that and do not have a get-outta jail/roadblock exit badge? I guess we'll soon find out when some get stopped and fight rather than have their rights violated. It's no longer a matter of if this is going to happen, just when. regards Joe Horn List retired cop and no longer proud of it. ======================== The War on Drugs is so wonderful -- I know that it is only a few more years before the "swastika" or the "hammer & sickle" will be flying from the government's flag poles from the East Coast to the West Coast. And in the name of saving all the children from the gun crimes - we'll all have been so disarmed by the War on Guns, which was born out of the War on Drugs, that we won't be able to stop the tyrants. But to use the words of socialists, of social engineers -- "it's for the better good of the community, the state, the nation, the people". Yes, being the good socialists and social engineers that the Drug Warriors are, the better good of the collective always takes precedence over individual rights, over freedom and liberty. I truly wish Hayek was wrong -- but if wishes were horses, beggers would ride. -Johann A Classical Liberal == Johann Opitz (w) johann_opitz(a)smtp.svl.trw.com == (h) johannp(a)aimnet.com == All Disclaimers Apply (to protect my employer) ==

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More threats from FOTM (Friends of Timmy May)
by dlv＠bwalk.dm.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I'm receiving more harrassing e-mail from the asshole who threatened to sue me for libeling Timmy May (fart). Since this asshole has never been heard from before, I suspect it's just another of Timmy May's tentacles. Anyway, if you want a videotape, I'll put one together. If not, I won't. >Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 20:36:36 -0500 >From: "Douglas B. Renner" <dougr(a)skypoint-gw.globelle.com> >Subject: Re: Threats from FOTM (Friends of Timmy May) >To: "Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM" <dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com> >In-Reply-To: <Vi7TVD1w165w(a)bwalk.dm.com> >Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9610152025.C3275-0100000(a)skypoint-gw.globelle.com> >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > >> I've been receiving multiples copies of threats of frivolous lawsuits in >> connection with Sandy Sanford's kind offer to address the San Francisco > >Well then obviously your hands are tied then, aren't they? That was easy.

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[POINTERS] On Vulis' net background
by Douglas B. Renner 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Some *very* informative background data may be found at: http://www.math.harvard.edu/~verbit/scs/cranks/from-Schlomo.html#vulis Of course the title KOTM may also have been fraudulently obtained (if USENET vote forgery bears any relevance...) see: "Fraudulent votes from bwalk.dm.com cited" in (are we surprised?) news.admin.net-abuse.misc Here's a pointer to one archive: http://www2.altavista.digital.com/cgi-bin/news?msg@3945@misc%2enews%2einter… Doug

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mail software for multiple addrs
by Vladimir Z. Nuri 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

hi everyone. I'm asking this here because I know that cpunks spend a lot of time in email. I'm looking for some GUI software that can deal well with 1. multiple internet providers - i.e., if I have multiple providers, I would like the software to be able to easily deal with them all, without having to retype IP addresses etc. into dialog boxes 2. multiple email accounts - i.e. the mail software is not going to use merely one POP account, but should be able to have different email addrs and passwords over POP 3. multiple mailing lists - I'd like a way to sort incoming mail into separate folders/directories based on header fields, and a way to automate this. (i.e. not have to go through the same procedure each time of typing the fields etc.) I am aware of Netscape's mail features, which don't really handle much of the above. also, I suspect many people require some combination of the above, so there is probably software out there to do it.. at least there is a demand. also, I'm aware of procmail but would prefer something that supports a GUI interface. also, if you know of a better place to post this query, please tell me. thanks much;

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RSA
by amnesia＠chardos.connix.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Timmy C. Mayflower was born when his mother was on the toilet.

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Dmitri
by L.Detweiler 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I just pledged $20 for Dmitri's trip and want to publicly encourage him to attend. Dmitri, I can attest the cpunks and Sandy are gracious hosts. (lately Dmitri has been sending me mail intermittently about tcm) because of the extremely wide interest and "buzz" factor of this activity, I suggest this invitation of guests with donations be made a semi-regular feature of cpunk meetings, with discussions on the list about future guests. btw, I have recently tweaked my www site slightly for anyone who is interested. oh, and btw, there was a fantastic article on crypto in last week's newsweek by Steven Levy, I don't recall seeing mention of it here. it mentioned "crypto anarchy" and the 4 horsemen of the infocalypse. a very concise yet informative and current article. | /\ |\| /~ L~ L_ /~~\ | | \_ L_ http://www.csn.net/~ldetweil/

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Majordomo w/ built-in security
by Christopher Durfy 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi guys, I'm new to the list, and it looks like a good one ;) I've got a question, and was hoping someone could point me in the right direction. Here's the situation: A large group of Doctors want to have an email list set up, but are concerned about privacy issues. Client's confidential patient info is likely to be talked about, and any interception of data would likely caused them to get sued =P Would the best way to get somehow incorporate PGP into the majordomo or smartlist (if it's possible) and either assign keys to all the doctors (or one key for ALL the doctors maybe, to cut on admin times....) Anyone ever run up against a situation like this? Any pointers, horror stories or solutions are very welcome! Thx. -Christopher Durfy, chris(a)alphawave.com

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