- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

RE: more RANTING about NSA-friendly cpunks
by blanc 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: Vladimir Z. Nuri, aka Agent Provocateur no, your own fear is harming you. no law requires that you be in fear of it (some may try, but that is not a law that can be written). that is the point of the law, that is the intent of it. .............................................................................................. "The Law" is using psychological warfare in its attempts to keep stray cats in line. This is because they haven't thoroughly considered the nature of the circumstance within which they are attempting to operate - the condition of respect for the individual and a support for the rights of liberty. They too are afraid. They also are moved by the fear of threats like "the four horsemen". They are so focused on this fear that it overrides their "Prime Directive", which is to uphold the above mentioned principles. They use the threats of the law to inspire complicity, but they do have the resources to carry out their threats. While an agency like the NSA is sufficiently well-funded where they can concentrate on pursuing their case against a target, a company or individual is engaged in creating their income at the same time that they must also use a portion of these resources to defend themselves in court (as well as defend their public image). It would be a noble project to challenge something like the ITAR in a court of law, where the issues and flaws of the government's attitudes & methods could be brought out in detail, dashed to the ground by brilliant reasoning and argument, winning a battle not only for privacy, but for the lofty goal of individual sovereignty. But it would take a lot of time, some very able talents, and a lot of cash; most lone cryptographers would not be able to do these two things at once (making a living while also fighting the dragon). It's easy for you, Vlad, to chastise others for being cowardly, when you have nothing to lose (and only incendiarism to offer). Those who are enjoined to take action must calculate how much they can afford to invest in such an expensive venture. You asked me in an earlier post how I could distinguish just any poster to the list from someone who might be an "agent provocateur". By this: they only provoke action from others - encouraging, cajoling, shaming, pushing them into thoughtless action, without themselves taking on any of the risk involved, without themselves facing any of the dangers but only getting others to do so. The government does operate on support, and criticism of their policies lets them know where they stand (unsupported). But it also communicates to those in office ideas which they find it difficult to consider (or outrightly disdain). It serves to educate them as well, these controversial meetings and discussions: it reveals to them how just how educated everyone is on the matter of their rights under government, on the matter of how they see themselves in terms of self-determination, and on how they are each prepared to act accordingly. Public discussions have the value of education for those govmt representatives who do not consider thoroughly the implications of their policies, who are not clear on concepts of privacy. It would be great to have a show of fireworks in a court of law. But (and I don't mean to begin a long thread of discussion on this) I myself would wonder why the Supreme Court wouldn't already be defending us from the attacks against basic ideals like personal privacy. There are already in existence a body of "authorities" assigned to the task of preserving the Constitution, educated in Law and the principles for which this nation stands. They are the ones whom I would address with inquiries over negligence & lilly-livered, yellow-bellied non-involvement. I guess someone has to bring the matter to their attention, bringing up charges of injustice for their wisdom to cogitate upon. Nevertheless, it is to them, who are in charge of maintaining consistency to the ideals within The Constitution, that I would ask, "why have you forsaken us"?

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Apology and clarification
by Nathaniel Borenstein 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

First of all, I believe that I owe the cypherpunk community an apology for an error in judgement on my part. The message that I sent out yesterday regarding our demonstrations of a newly-discovered security threat was the exact same text that I sent to a far less technical audience. As such, I understand that many people on this list found the tone of my message to be insulting and offensive. I apologize, and I certainly didn't mean to insult anyone's intelligence. Having said that, please cut me a break. If you read my message as saying "FV has just invented keystroke sniffing" you've completely missed the real attack here. If you really think I'd throw away my reputation on a bogus claim like that, you're insulting *my* intelligence. My (charitable?) take on it is that a lot of people were so put off by the tone of my mass-market message that they leapt to the quick but erroneous conclusion that there was no underlying content. There is. The threat is NOT from keystroke sniffing per se, and we're certainly not claiming to have invented keystroke sniffing. However, we do have to *explain* keystroke sniffing in the public announcement, because it is a *part* of our attack, and most of the public does NOT already know that it's possible. What we at FV have done is to demonstrate how easy it is to develop an FULLY AUTOMATED attack that undermines the security of all software-based credit card commerce schemes. It is the automated aspect that separates it from all of the "dumpster-diving" attacks on credit card numbers which have previously been widely discussed, because it provides a path to large-scale fraud that has never been publicly discussed before, to my knowledge. The key "invention" in our approach is to integrate several techniques that are already well-known (in this community) into an automated attack that we consider to be devastating to commerce systems based on software-encrypted credit cards. Our approach combines the following four known problems into a fatal attack: 1) Consumer machines are insecure and easily compromised. 2) Keyboard sniffers are easy to write. 3) Credit card numbers are self-identifying (they have check digits) and can easily be extracted from a huge stream of input data. 4) Once intercepted, small amounts of information (e.g. a cc #) may be distributed completely tracelessly over the Internet. When you put all four of these together, you have an attack that IS new, in the sense that nobody we know of has ever mentioned it before, and which could in fact be used by a single criminal, with only a few weeks of programming, to tracelessly steal MILLIONS of credit cards, if software-encrypted credit-card schemes ever caught on. This is a very real threat. If you think we're just re-hashing keyboard sniffers, you haven't yet understood what we're demonstrating. The real threat is the traceless theft of millions of credit card numbers by a single easily mounted automated attack. So here's the factual claim, to be proven or disproven: One good programmer, in less than a month, can write a program that will spread itself around the net, collect an unlimited number of credit card numbers, and get them back to the program's author by non-traceable mechanisms. Does anyone on this list doubt that this is true? If so, I'd like to know the flaw in my thinking, -- I am *not* too proud to withdraw any claims that aren't true. If not, I think it's worth noting that this fact was previously completely unknown to the bankers and businessmen who are putting large sums of money at risk on the net. The only way to get the message to those communities is with a very visible public announcement of the kind you saw yesterday. -- Nathaniel -------- Nathaniel Borenstein <nsb(a)fv.com> Chief Scientist, First Virtual Holdings FAQ & PGP key: nsb+faq(a)nsb.fv.com

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They Can Even Steal Your Identity!
by quickfacts9＠hotmail.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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take the pledge
by Perry E. Metzger 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Look, folks, we all know that 99% of what David Sternlight posts is garbage. Why don't we all pledge not to answer any of his posts, and then he'll go away. If necessary, someone can be appointed to post a weekly "the views expressed by David are junk and we are deliberately not replying to them directly" message. David has plenty of places to argue with the wind. We don't need to add this one. I'd like to ask people to publically pledge that they will not reply to David's messages. This is such a pledge. Perry

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In and out brothel/My wife lays eggs like a chicken
by STUFFED/EUREKA! 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Welcome to today's issue of Stuffed. To read it you should click on the URL below. If it is not made clickable by your email program you will need to use your mouse to highlight the line, copy it and then paste it into your browser (then press Return). http://stuffed.net/98/7/30/ If you have an email program that can display web pages you will find today's front cover should have already been disp- layed and can be clicked on to take you straight to Stuffed. This email is never sent unsolicited. Stuffed is the supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full instructions on unsubscribing are in every issue of Eureka!

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Cracking DES 1-4
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

We offer Chapters 1-4 of EFF's "Cracking DES:" http://jya.com/cracking-des.htm (110K + 9 images) URLs to other parts welcomed.

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RAID98: Call For Registration
by dac＠zurich.ibm.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Call For Registration - RAID'98 First International Workshop on the Recent Advances in Intrusion Detection Sponsored by the IBM Emergency Response Service (http://www.ers.ibm.com) and the Joint Research Centre of the EC (Institute for Systems, Informatics and Safety) (http://ntsta.jrc.it) September 14-16, 1998 Louvain-la-Neuve, Belgium *********************************************************************** Visit our web site http://www.zurich.ibm.com/~dac/RAID98 for on-line information regarding the preliminary program, the registration forms, accommodations, maps, etc.. *********************************************************************** RAID'98 is the first in an anticipated annual series of international workshops that will bring together leading figures from academia, government, and industry to ponder the current state of intrusion detection1 technologies and paradigms from the research and commercial perspectives. Its aim is to further progress in intrusion detection by promoting the exchange of ideas among researchers, system developers, and users and by encouraging links between these groups. RAID'98 will be held in Louvain-la-Neuve, Belgium, on 14-16 September 1998. RAID'98 will be held in the same location as CARDIS'98 (http://www.dice.ucl.ac.be/cardis98) and ESORICS'98 (http://www.dice.ucl.ac.be/esorics98) at the same time as the former and just prior to the latter. A registration discount is available to those attending both the ESORICS conference and the RAID workshop. Registration is now open, and will continue until 21 August 1998. Late registration will continue until 4 September 1998, but only on a space-available basis, and will include a penalty of 2000 BEF. If you need more information regarding registration or accommodations, please take contact with Catherine Rouyer E-mail: Rouyer(a)tele.ucl.ac.be RAID Secretariat UCL/TELE (Mrs. Catherine Rouyer) Place du Levant, 2 B-1348 Louvain-la-Neuve Belgium ************************** PRELIMINARY PROGRAM ************************* **** html version available: http://www.zurich.ibm.com/~dac/RAID98 **** MONDAY SEPTEMBER 14,1998 ======================== 8:00 9:00 Transfers from hotels, coffee service and participant check-in Session 1 (Session Chair: Kathleen Jackson) ------------------------------------------- 9:00 - 9:20 Welcome and Introduction Marc Dacier (IBM ZRL, Switzerland), Jean-Jacques Quisquater (UCL, Belgium). 9:20 - 9:40 The Rome Labs Experience Kevin Ziese (Cisco Systems, Inc., USA) 9:40 - 10:00 Intrusion Detection and Legal Proceedings Peter Sommer (London School of Economics and Political Science, UK) 10:00 - 10:20 Lessons Learned in the Implementation of a Multi-Location Network Based Real Time Intrusion Detection System Michael Puldy (IBM Emergency Response Service, USA) 10:20 - 10:40 Break - Coffee service Session 2 (Session Chair: Baudouin Le Charlier) ------------------------------------------------ 10:40 - 11:00 GASSATA, A Genetic Algorithm as an Alternative Tool for Security Audit Trails Analysis Ludovic Me (SUPELEC, France) 11:00 - 11:20 Using Bottleneck Verification to Find Novel New Attacks with a Low False Alarm Rate Richard Lippmann (MIT Lincoln Laboratory, USA) 11:20 - 11:40 The Use of Information Retrieval Techniques for Intrusion Detection Ross Anderson (University of Cambridge, UK) 11:40 - 12:00 Tools for Intrusion detection: Results and Lessons Learned from the ASAX Project Abdelaziz. Mounji (Computer Science Institute, Belgium) 12:00 - 13:30 Lunch Session 3 (Session Chair: Yves Deswarte) ------------------------------------------- 13:30 - 13:50 Dependability of Large-scale Infrastructures and Challenges for Intrusion Detection Marc Wilikens (Institute for Systems, Informatics and Safety, Italy) 13:50 - 14:10 How Re(Pro)active Should An IDS Be? Richard Overill (King's College London, UK) 14:10 - 14:30 Contribution of Quantitative Security Evaluation to Intrusion Detection Yves Deswarte (LAAS-CNRS & INRIA, France) 14:30 - 14:50 Intrusion Detection in Telecommunication Hai-Ping Ko (GTE Laboratories Incorporated, USA) 14:50 - 15:10 Break - Beverages Session 4 (Session Chair: TBD) --------------------------------- 15:10 - 15:30 Problems with Networkbased Intrusion Detection for Enterprise Computing Thomas Daniels (Purdue University, USA) 15:30 - 15:50 Transitioning IDS Research Into a Viable Product Mark Crosbie (Hewlett-Packard Corporation, USA) 15:50 - 16:10 Enhanced Network Intrusion Detection in a Smart Enterprise Environment Ricci Ieong (Hong Kong University of Science and Technology, Hong Kong) 16:10 - 16:30 Integrating Intrusion Detection into the Network/Security Infrastructure Mark Wood (Internet Security Systems, Inc, USA) 16:30 - 16:50 Break - Refreshments Session 5 (Panel Chair: Rowena Chester) --------------------------------------- 16:50 - 18:00 The Nature and Utility of Standards Organizations for the Intrusion Detection Developers Community Participants Dick Brackney (NSA) Rowena Chester (Chair NCITS (ANSI) T4 Committee) Roger French (Compaq) Walter Fumy (Chair ISO SC27) Larry Nelson (AT&T) Vern Paxson (LBNL) Gene Spafford (Purdue University) Mark Zalewski (Chair TC68) 18:00 - 19:30 Transfers to and from hotels 19:30 - 22:00 Banquet 22:00 Transfers to hotels TUESDAY SEPTEMBER 15,1998 ========================= 8:00 9:00 Transfers from hotels and coffee service Session 6 (Session Chair: Timothy Grance) -------------------------------------------- 9:00 - 9:20 Measuring Intrusion Detection Systems Roy Maxion (Carnegie Mellon University, USA) 9:20 - 9:40 The 1998 DARPA/AFRL Off-line Intrusion Detection Evaluation Richard Lippmann (MIT Lincoln Laboratory, USA) 9:40 - 10:00 Securing Network Audit Logs on Untrusted Machines Bruce Schneier (Counterpane Systems, USA) 10:00 - 10:20 Intrusion Detection and User Privacy - A Natural Contradiction? Roland Bueschkes (Aachen University of Technology, Germany) 10:20 - 10:40 Break - Coffee Service Session 7 (Session Chair: Marc Dacier) ---------------------------------------- 10:40 - 11:00 Design and Implementation of an Intrusion Detection System for OSPF Routing Networks Y. Frank Jou (MCNC, USA) 11:00 - 11:20 Designing IDLE: The Intrusion Data Library Enterprise Ulf Lindqvist (Chalmers University of Technology, Sweden) 11:20 - 11:40 Design and Implementation of a Sniffer Detector Stephane Grundschober (IBM Zurich Research Laboratory, Switzerland) 11:40 - 12:00 The Application of Artificial Neural Networks to Misuse Detection: Initial Results James Cannady (Georgia Tech Research Institute, USA) 12:00 - 13:30 Lunch Session 8 (Session Chair: Deborah Frincke) --------------------------------------------- 13:30 - 13:50 AAFID: Autonomous Agents for Intrusion Detection Diego Zamboni (Purdue University, USA) 13:50 - 14:10 Research Issues in Cooperative Intrusion Detection Between Multiple Domains Deborah Frincke (University of Idaho, USA) 14:10 - 14:30 A Large-scale Distributed Intrusion Detection Framework Based on Attack Strategy Analysis Ming-Yuh Huang (The Boeing Company, USA) 14:30 - 14:50 NIDAR: The Design and Implementation of an Intrusion Detection System Ong Tiang Hwee (DSO National Laboratories, Singapore) 14:50 - 15:10 Break - Beverages Session 9 (Session Chair: Peter Sommer) ------------------------------------------ 15:10 - 15:30 A UNIX Anomaly Detection System using Self-Organising Maps Albert Hoeglund (Nokia Research Center, Finland) 15:30 - 15:50 Evaluating a Real-time Anomaly-based Intrusion Detection System Tobias Ruighaver (University of Melbourne, Australia) 15:50 - 16:10 Audit Trail Pattern Analysis for Detecting Suspicious Process Behavior Andreas Wespi (IBM Zurich Research Laboratory, Switzerland) 16:10 - 16:30 An Immunological Approach to Distributed Network Intrusion Detection Steven A. Hofmeyr (University of New Mexico, USA) 16:30 - 16:50 Break - Refreshments Session 10 (Session Chair: Kevin Ziese) ---------------------------------------- 16:50 - 17:10 The Limitations of Intrusion Detection Systems on High Speed Networks Joe Kleinwaechter (Internet Security Systems, Inc, USA) 17:10 - 17:30 CERN Network Security Monitor Paolo Moroni (CERN, Switzerland) 17:30 - 17:50 HAXOR - A Passive Network Monitor/Intrusion Detection Sensor Alan Boulanger (IBM Watson Research Center, USA) 17:50 - 18:10 Using Bro to detect network intruders: experiences and status Vern Paxson (Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, USA) 18:10 - 19:30 Reception 19:30 Transfers to hotels WEDNESDAY SEPTEMBER 16,1998 =========================== 8:00 - 8:40 Transfers from hotels and coffee service Session 11 (Panel Chair: Gene Spafford) ---------------------------------------- 8:40 - 10:00 Intrusion Detection in the Large Participants Dick Brackney (NSA) Deborah Frincke (University of Idaho) Michel Miqueu (CNES) Jean-Jacques Quisquater (UCL, Belgium) Gene Spafford (Purdue University) Marc Wilikens (Institute for Systems, Informatics and Safety) Kevin Ziese (Cisco/Wheelgroup) 10:00 Adjourn

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Better living through masterbation/Digestible Dildos
by STUFFED/EUREKA! 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Welcome to today's issue of Stuffed. To read it you should click on the URL below. If it is not made clickable by your email program you will need to use your mouse to highlight the line, copy it and then paste it into your browser (then press Return). http://stuffed.net/98/7/31/ If you have an email program that can display web pages you will find today's front cover should have already been disp- layed and can be clicked on to take you straight to Stuffed. This email is never sent unsolicited. Stuffed is the supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full instructions on unsubscribing are in every issue of Eureka!

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World Record Sex!
by beverly357＠hotmail.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Re: FC: Libertarian Party asks for Clinton impeachment
by attila 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Fri, 31 Jul 1998, Declan McCullagh wrote: > > Libertarians to Congress: Impeach Clinton for Bad Net Policy > By Declan McCullagh > > [snip] > and then they wonder why they received less than 1% of the vote in '96. good enough reasons if they do the trick, but I would rather they not impeach him; an impeachment hearing will put the ice pack on the market... and by the time the Senate can get around to finishing the deed, Clinton will have turned the government over to FEMA for some flim-flam excuse. better start getting ready to quarter the UN barbarian troops in your house.

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