- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

Re: Power Outage in San Fransisco/bay area
by FitugMix 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Sounds to me like a practice-run for Y2K. Max Inux wrote: > > Well, we are going on hour 4 now, most of the power is back. One group of > 2-4 employees caused it they say. This was admitted 3 hours later, and > then they knew 15 minutes after it happens.. typical. They expect to be > back on by this afternoon > > On the Shell Building at 8:30AM > > "Building closed, no power. Power will not be restored for 6-8 hours." > > I wonder how they knew. The estimate is probably about right too, wierd. > > The mission village sub-station has been re-oppened, and most peoples > power is now being revived. Funny how 2-4 people not following procedure > were able to shut down 4 substations. Looks like PG&E have lots of work > ahead to find out the cause/effect of this type action. > > Max > -- Max Inux <maxinux(a)openpgp.net> New DH and RSA keys Generated. > Kinky Sex makes the world go round > If crypto is outlawed only outlaws will have crypto

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Signal to noise/real issues
by gtoal＠an-teallach.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In article <9311181959.AA12707(a)anon.penet.fi> an41418(a)anon.penet.fi "wonderer" writes: > those, then maybe I'm in the wrong mailing list. I think I'll post > a copy of that message to sci.crypt where people are interested in > real crypto issues. Try talk.politics.crypto and avoid pissing off everyone on sci.crypt too :-) G

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Re: Wei Dei's "b-money" protocol
by Dave Birch 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Wei Dai said >However if it did become mainstream I think there are some >interesting macroeconomic questions here. Will prices really be stable as >they're designed to be? Will there be business cycles? What is the optimum >inflation/deflation rate? Perhaps a solution is to fix not on a basket of commodities, or equities, but on provision of future service (much like Frequent Flier miles). Suppose the money is demoninated in Mb of web hosting (I've no idea whether this would be a good choice as I just made it up). Then you know you'll get what you want in terms of service, irrespective of the inflation/deflation. Sure, if web space inflates against the dollar then that's a problem (for people with dollars). But suppose you could accumulate the things that you actually want rather than specie (as a proxy)? Consider this as a thought experiment. Microsoft issue m$, each m$ being worth 1 minute of Microsoft technical support. People who need Microsoft technical support would buy m$ (big companies would know roughly how much they might need) whereas people who don't need or want it would sell m$. Instead of storing up dollars, the value of which might fluctuate (especially since Microsoft could change the price of technical support whenever they want), companies now have a firm fix. Just an idea. Regards, Dave Birch. === mailto:daveb@hyperion.co.uk ===== http://www.hyperion.co.uk/ ===

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ACT NOW!!! Web Site Submission
by harmike＠discruise.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 13:59:20 +0100 > From: Mok-Kong Shen <mok-kong.shen(a)stud.uni-muenchen.de> > Subject: Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls (fwd) > I don't see why you have to pose such severe selection criteria. Because those are the issues that will determine success. > As long as a number of countries don't yet have export regulations, Which doesn't mean they won't hassle the operators with various techniques in order to pursuade them it's a bad idea to continue. > If the 'economies', 'infrastructure' 'religon' and what not of the > countries do not (yet) affect crypto laws, why care about them? If They effect crypto by defintion. > at a later point of time some of these countries do have crypto laws, If they don't have crypto laws it's likely they don't have a lot of other sorts of laws and the social and economic structure those laws imply. This makes it very difficult to operate a archive with any sort of stability or protection. > well, simply close down the archive there and let the sites in the And what about the costs and effects incurred by that person you so glibly throw away? > Much more important is to discuss how to solve the finacial problem There is NO financial problem. It costs hundreds of dollars to purchase the hardware. The connectivity is less than $100 a month in most parts of the world. It simply isn't expensive or economicaly challenging. That ISN'T the problem and should recieve scant attention while these other issues are extant. Bottem line, if you can't afford to put up a box then you're not going to be able to afford to deal with the other issues such activities incur mainly because you're going to be too busy trying to pay your housing and food costs. In that situation you've better things to do with your time then run an archive site. ____________________________________________________________________ If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation, it is: bullying Howard Zinn The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- ____________________________________________________________________ If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation, it is: bullying Howard Zinn The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 07:26:21 -0800 (PST) > From: "Joel O'Connor" <ogrenivek(a)yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: > They say education is power abd naybe they were correct. I agree with > the fact that more people need to use encryption, the problem (as you > stated) is that people do not understand how to use it, or even know > it exists. Unfortunate for us, fortunate for big brother. While the > only way we can counteract this debate is through empowerment, the > question remains, how do you spread the word to up to a million > people, enough to get their interest and keep it, enough to take the > time to teach them how to use the tools. I work for an IT department I'd say the obvious answer is to buy a spammers mailing list and then use it to send out a one-time-only missive on the issues with a directive of where to go for more information. Mass email letters to newspapers all over the US (or whereever you are). Hit usenet with copies. Buy add space in newspapers and magazines. Hit up the local media for PSA's. Use the local public access television stations. etc. It's not the how that people are having a hard time with, it's the why. ____________________________________________________________________ If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation, it is: bullying Howard Zinn The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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RE: Encryption for the Masses
by Wilson, Jamie (J.R.) 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 We live in a society where freedom is largely an illusion and where Big Brother doesn't fear protest by the general population. In most cases, simply creating a crisis is enough for individuals to not only give their liberties up but to actually plead for their liberties to be taken away in the name of safety and security. What they don't realize is that the sheep are begging the wolves to protect them. It's not the militia guy next door that I'm worried about -- he pretty much tells us what he's up to. What I'm afraid of is the NSA reading my email and listening to my phone calls without my knowledge. So how do we get the masses to realize that we aren't talking about a potential threat, but are actually already living in a Big Brother society with very few secrets. We can continue to bury our heads in the illusion that we really are free, but we have to ask ourselves whether we are more free today than we were ten years, five years or even a year ago. If the answer is no, then there is a serious problem. So excusing my rant, my point is that when the average individual wakes up and realizes that his or her life really is an open book and that every piece of email sent has been filtered through a computer somewhere, that every posting to a newsgroup has been archived and just may pop up and haunt them in the future, when they realize that the only privacy available to them is the privacy that they claim and defend then, and only then, will we see a change in crypto policies around the world. When the citizenry begins demanding accountability by elected officials for the privacy that they've sold, for the chains they've placed on their constituents and for the oaths they have broken then we'll see the tide change for the better. Until then, the rest of us will have to wage the fight to protect the ignorant. ____________________________________________________ J. Richard Wilson -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.5 iQA/AwUBNm7BSsDUWXiy5rQXEQJRUQCdEUMFE6kfNz2/hzJmOmiKoAyEKEYAoNtd vAJ/Hc/RTsdDs+F7eLnroqCT =Gxd/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -----Original Message----- From: Joel O'Connor [mailto:ogrenivek@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, 09 December, 1998 10:26 To: Anonymous Cc: Cypherpunks(a)toad.com Subject: Re: They say education is power abd naybe they were correct. I agree with the fact that more people need to use encryption, the problem (as you stated) is that people do not understand how to use it, or even know it exists. Unfortunate for us, fortunate for big brother. While the only way we can counteract this debate is through empowerment, the question remains, how do you spread the word to up to a million people, enough to get their interest and keep it, enough to take the time to teach them how to use the tools. I work for an IT department and the users I train rank from intelligent to "where the hell did you come from?!" Teaching people who have no want or need is the hardest part, just ask Christians, they know what it's like. Our greatest problems lie within our inability to train and make use of what lies in front of us, if people don't see the need, then why would they? Another point, some people feel that if they have nothing to hide, then why use it. An acquaitance of mine has the same stubborn attitude, what steps do you take to thwart that? That excuse bothers me beyond belief, but it is a common thought that if you need to take the steps to hide something, then it must be wrong. God help us. . . ---Anonymous <nobody(a)replay.com> wrote: > > I think setting up mirror sites of crypto archives > across the world is a great idea. However, I also > think we need to focus on getting more and more > people to use crypto. I would guess that the vast > majority of computer users worldwide see no use > for encryption in their day-to-day lives -- and > even those that do don't also use it. > > If everybody in the world is using encryption, it > is going to be extremely difficult for "democratic" > governments to tell them they can't use it any more. > > Unfortunately, it's easy for governments to blame > crypto for terrorism and a host of other crimes, > simply because the average citizen doesn't understand > the concept of an "electronic envelope". > > > == Ogre bounces like sonar. . .Peace. Ogre _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

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RE: Postcard Debates
by Wilson, Jamie (J.R.) 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

If everyone just encrypted their messages then no suspicions would be raised regarding the use of encryption. Most people use envelopes, plain and simple -- and as a result no one questions what they are hiding. It's understood that mail is private and therefore people have a right to seal it in an envelope and not worry about people tampering with it. On the same note, there are federal regulations and penalties (in the U.S. anyway) for tampering with mail and interrupting the delivery of it. The same laws should apply to email. ____________________________________________________ Jamie R. Wilson -----Original Message----- From: Robert Wenzler [mailto:rwenzler@usachoice.com] Sent: Thursday, 10 December, 1998 13:56 To: Mbishop645(a)aol.com Cc: maven(a)weirdness.com; hab(a)gamegirlz.com; Cypherpunks(a)toad.com Subject: Re: Mbishop645(a)aol.com wrote: > > >HaB wrote: > ><snip> > >> That's a good place to begin, though. "Would you send a letter to > >> someone without an envelope?" "Then why not put your email in the > >> electronic equivalent of one?" > >> > >> balance. > > > >Would I send a letter to someone without an envelope? > >One word: postcard. > > Ahh, but would you tape a check for your phone bill to a postcard? Other > than writing a greeting to someone what else do you use a postcard for? No, I would not tape a phone bill check to a postcard. There is the chance for it to fall off. There is different methods of sending mail for different levels of security and functionality. Some people make it obvious what is inside an envelope. (who would not recognize a Christmas card from the envelope?) Others make it as bland and normal as possible to have it go by without much notice. It all depends on how secure you want it. Some things you can do with what amounts to postcard security. What amount of security do you want for your email? Would you be willing to do something extra for that security? This type of question is up to each person. How much risk is the person willing to take. Each person has the responsibility to understand what the risks are and to decide what risks they are willing to take.

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Re: The politics of crypto archives (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 20:03:05 +0100 > From: Mok-Kong Shen <mok-kong.shen(a)stud.uni-muenchen.de> > Subject: Re: The politics of crypto archives > We were talking about a site that has to be closed because of (new) > crypto laws, not technically down which is seldom with modern hardware. > And also you said that money is no problem! You need to go back and re-read what prompted this. Your responce is completely out of context. > Why you care so much about people who voluteer to run sites? They > certainly know what kind of risks that they probably face, financial > or otherwise. Do you care your neighbour who opens up a new company > and do you feel unconditionally have to give him advices?? Are you > the one who is cleverer than all the others? It depends, do I shop there? I'm done with this discussion. You want to expect people to put their neck on the line and you use their services while owning them nothing then wonder why nobody does it, so be it. ____________________________________________________________________ If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation, it is: bullying Howard Zinn The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: German government press release on Wassenaar (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 9 Dec 98 20:04 +0100 > From: ulf(a)fitug.de (Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?=) > Subject: Re: German government press release on Wassenaar > 1.) Officials point out that "export control" does not mean "export > restriction". Spin-doctor bullshit. There are forms of "export control" (such as the > requirement to notify the Export Office of your exports) that do not > hinder the export of crypto software in any significant way. So it > remains to be seen how Germany and other countries will implement > the new rules. And why should one need to notify them if there is not at least the implied ability on their part to say "NO, you won't either."? > 2.) The government has acknowledged that public domain software > remains unrestricted. This also applies to copyrighted software such > as PGP which "has been made available without restrictions upon its > further dissemination". PGP is NOT unrestrited. ____________________________________________________________________ If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation, it is: bullying Howard Zinn The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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