- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

Re: CDA outside US (Including Indian Reservations)
by Sean Morgan 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Ed Carp <erc(a)dal1820.computek.net> wrote: >Another problem - if you ever want to get into the US, you can kiss that >chance goodbye. They might not even let you into the country as a >visitor. Stupid. This is not an idle threat. When Pierre Trudeau was elected prime minister of Canada (1969?) there was some scrambling in the US to get him off the _persona non grata_ list. Seems that in his student days he had been busted for trying to kayak from Florida to Cuba. Canadian author Farley Mowatt (sp?) was turned back at the border for imagined pinko associations (best guess was that it was because he had traveled to the USSR to research _Sibir_). Such a blacklisting would really hurt me in my current job. I made about 15 business trips to the US (from Canada) last year. >A fair number of Western countries have laws that say, >in effect, that if you do something in your country that isn't illegal in >your country but is in country X, then country X can bar you entry or PR >status or citizenship based on the fact that is *is* a crome in country X. That makes no sense. "Country Y would pass a law saying that country X may bar you for something country X doesn't like"?? That's unnecessary on two counts: Country Y has no jurisdiction in X, and X doesn't need Y permission anyway. Example, so called "sex tourist" from western countries travel to the far east to have sex with minors. You can't do it back home, but there nothing to stop you from doing it abroad. Or if you want an example closer to home, how about Californians traveling to Nevada to gamble? -------------------------------+----------------------------------------- Sean Morgan (sean(a)lucifer.com) | Let me tell you a few bits about myself: | CACTTGCCGGGTAACACTCCATGAAATTCTTCTCAGCC http://www.lucifer.com/~sean/ | AGGTGTCGACGCTAGGATCAACCTTTAAGTGAACT...

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(DaveMail Fwd) Today's Proposal: Webmasters
by rah＠shipwright.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Sun, 18 Feb 1996 09:09:07 -0800 To: malcolm(a)interval.com, ginas(a)hooked.net (Gina Smith -- SF Examiner), mark(a)wired.com (Mark Frauenfelder), RayHeizer(a)value.net (Heizer Software), davenetworld(a)wired.com, louise.link(a)applelink.apple.com (Louise Velazquez -- Oracle), Dan_Scherlis.ZIFF-DAVIS%LNGATE(a)zdmis.ziff.com (AT&T), Roz_Ault(a)bmugbos.org (Roz Ault), CummingsBu(a)aol.com, 280-0309(a)mcimail.com (Tim Bajarin), CHAHIL(a)applelink.apple.com (Chahil, Satjiv) From: dwiner(a)well.com (DaveNet email) Subject: Today's Proposal: Webmasters Sender: owner-davenetworld(a)wired.com Precedence: bulk --------------------------------------- Amusing Rants from Dave Winer's Desktop Released on 2/18/96; 8:58:20 AM PST --------------------------------------- ***I'm not too proud If I have to beg and plead for sympathy. I don't mind because it means that much to me. If I have to sleep on your doorstep all night and day. Let my friends laugh -- even this I can stand! I'm not ashamed to come and plead with you baby. ***I ain't too proud to beg! The Temptations. Motown. The Internet. Now. What goes around. No, I ain't too proud to beg. Here's why! ***Why am I working on a Sunday morning? We're at a crossroads for the Internet medium. Will it be a narrow-channel one-way medium as the east coast people glibly claim it will be? Soap commercials, sensationalism, imitation friendship -- a continuation of the suburban culture of isolation, lies, dysfunction and unhappiness? Or will it be the medium of "Great Hair"? Of speaking and being heard? They're telling us to shut up! The chill is real. What are you prepared to do about it? ***I've made a proposal I decided to do something about it. I believe every voice makes a difference. I believe in the power of the Internet. It just needs a bit of organization. It needs someone to stick his or her neck out first. I listened to Howard Rheingold when he asked what we will tell our children ten years from now. I listened to Howard and I heard him. It gives me a chill! What *will* we tell them? Speaking for your kids, Mom and Dad -- what were you doing the week of February 18, 1996 that you couldn't spare some space on your home page, or spare a few hours to write down your own thoughts about freedom of speech? If not for the rest of us, do it for your kids. Write them a letter and put it in a time capsule. Show them later what you stood for today. People want to be spoon-fed. They're looking for mommy! I think the kids have more guts than us adults do. It's their future we're fighting for. Do you care enough to get involved? It's time to grow up. The opportunity is great, but so is the threat. No one spoon-fed the founders of our country. They fought a revolution for our right to free speech. You don't have to die for freedom, at least not yet. You just have to say you're in favor of it. A right that's not practiced is lost. Once it's gone, you *will* have to die to get it back, or worse, your kids will have to die! It's really simple. On February 22, everyone who cares about freedom, write an essay so everyone can see it. I don't care if you agree with me. It isn't a Dave Winer fan club. It's about numbers and voters. This is a two-way medium. We need to demonstrate that before it's too late. Companies like Microsoft and Netscape have a stake in the two-way-ness of this medium. Microsoft has FrontPage and Netscape has Navigator Gold. Both products are based on the assumption that lots of people will speak thru the worldwide web. Is it safe to do speak in this medium if the community standards of Memphis US apply to the writing of people in Paris FR? Judges in the US are deciding that every community's standards apply to every bit of writing on the web! Man. Talk about a chilling idea. How much do French people know about Tennessee? How much do they *want* to know? That's not a joke! They say it can't happen here. Over and over. It can. It's happening! Look, I'm angry with Bill Clinton for putting us in bed with the bible-thumpers. I feel very strongly about this. You may think Clinton did the right thing. Say so. Thanks to the work of some very fine people, it's easy to get your ideas on the web -- this week. Take advantage of this opportunity to really speak your mind. You may not get another chance. ***Today's proposal: Webmasters As the week goes by I will have more proposals. Today's message is directed at webmasters -- people who manage websites. Please learn about the 24 Hours project. It's totally non-commercial. We will share all the software we've developed for the project. There won't be any ads on this site. Browse around the website. Listen to me, then listen to your heart. Does free speech belong on your home page? Does your site support democracy? If so, link to the 24 Hours website so your users know where you stand. If you decide to link in at the last minute, say February 21, your users will complain that they didn't have enough time to prepare their essays. And they will be right! Honestly, right now, Sunday morning, the project looks like a failure. We've attracted some honest hardworking people who really care. The site you're looking at is a group effort. We had fun doing it. It was hard work for a good cause. I will be able to sleep knowing that I did everything I could for the cause of free speech. What about you? Dear webmaster, if you have to sell this inside your company -- sell it! Your president will thank you later, as Bud Colligan of Macromedia thanked me a few days ago. You can't afford to not stand up for free speech on the Internet. Your future, my future, their shareholder's future, the next generation's future -- they all depend on what you do right now. No, I'm not too proud to beg. So webmasters, I'm down on my hands and knees, begging -- get behind the 24 Hours of Democracy project! Today. Put a link on your home page. Give us a chance to organize free speech on the Internet. <http://www.hotwired.com/userland/24/iwantyou.html> Dave Winer PS: The next message is to reporters and editors, leaders and celebrities. It's the right time to write! --------------------------------------------------------------- Webmasters: <http://www.hotwired.com/userland/24/iwantyou.html> --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "Reality is not optional." --Thomas Sowell The e$ Home Page: http://thumper.vmeng.com/pub/rah/

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Re: patents suck
by jf_avon＠citenet.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

nobody(a)REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) wrote: >Bullshit. Corporations do not work; their employees do. The >creativity of employees is sat upon as net worth, but nothing >is produced. Money is only worth something if it is circulating >in an economy; a corporation only has worth if it produces >something. > >Instead corporations produce nothing. They sit on resources, >preventing anyone else from producing, because the current system >favors non-production and an inflationary and wasteful economy >based on speculation. Mmmmmhhh. Although the state of affairs you point out in the above paragraph unfortunately exist, your first paragraph denotes your vision of the world... In today's economy, with a monetary system not backed by a physical standard, it is true, in a sense. Unfortunately. >>And the property rights *are* fundamentals (even if not >No, they are not fundamental anything. They are taken for granted >in the modern West as a rationale. It's a nice one, and I don't >have too many arguments... except when people claim a false >dilemma of either total private property or total socialism. So, what other dilemna do you have to oppose to my false one? >Why not a form of property based on use? It is a contradiction in term. >It was originally >a rationale in Europe... <snip> ...despire the >fact that natives and settlers lived there. The fact that they might have rationalized thugish behaviour 400years ago is not relevant to the discussion. Would you rape the next village's girls? After all, it was certainly current practice 400 years ago, *somewhere* ... >Extended to patents... corporations do a lot of R but no D, but >legally no one else can make use of it either. Unisys didn't >market LZW compression and let everyone else use it... then they >decided they should have been making losts of mulah and wanted >to pull the plug and get royalities. IBM has done negligable >production on arithmetic coding, so a lot of independ developers >ignore the patents. Similar arguments can be made about PK >crypto. I won't comment on this one, since I do not accept that my morality be held hostage by the actions of others. I do not mean to absolve Corp. Inc that just tries to make money through speculation rather than production. But the argument does not even desserve an answer. I am not a psycho-epistemologist... >>You can not have your cake and eat it too... >Huh? What does that have to do with this argument? You cannot makes rules that protect a basic principle and at the same time have exceptions based on whims. Because the latter will destroy the first. **** NEW PGP 2.6.2 KEY ********* This key is actually suspended, as of Feb, 16 1996, was never distributed, and might be subject to deletion. Sorry for the trouble my mis-management might have caused. 2048 bits Key ID:24201BA1 1996/02/13 Jean-Francois Avon <jf_avon(a)citenet.net> Key fingerprint = 23 B6 24 31 86 67 FB 35 C7 A7 AF 12 A1 61 E9 3D **** OLD KEY: DO NOT USE ANYMORE UNLESS FOR VERIFYING SIGNATURES **** 1024 bits Key ID:57214AED 1995/10/04 Jean-Francois Avon <jf_avon(a)citenet.net> Key fingerprint = 84 96 76 AE EB 7C AB 15 88 47 87 B0 18 31 74 9F

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Books
by carson.chittom＠starnetbbs.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- To all: I have a deep interest in my privacy, and, therefore, in cryptography. However, I do not know the slightest thing about encryption. Could anyone recommend any sources that would be understandable? Ideally, I'd like to have books, but I can bum off a friend's account if necessary (mine is an e-mail only deal). Many thanks. Carson Chittom -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMSa83o+Yy0SubePBAQH0QQP/fC8w+IFsNF9azJ8NscZ02ET0Va3BBwKW NoO+Z6+xJ3dEwFp9IBfNksUXGZ8fEOYikgtXxl6+PBz8Uui1Tr2uvqix9JuaJ75e A5F6mGsj8kxXq/Q2gE6/AbDyAR21NqC6sNqr9q9sxXbGgcLy7h/G118bOW4foIK7 iPFnr9vTHRo= =3m8H -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ~~~ PGPBLUE 3.0 <NR> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Dulcene decorumque pro patria mori? Carson Chittom carson.chittom(a)starnetbbs.com "Tangerines?" The amazing place was a seething, fertile Joseph Heller, _Catch-22_ cornucopia of female nipples and navels. Joseph Heller, _Catch-22_ -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ... 43% of all statistics are totally worthless !!! ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]

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Re: Secure Split
by loki＠obscura.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I wrote a program which does secret sharing calles SecShare. It is on my home page. As my first venture into crypto programming it is a major kludge, but it does the job. -Lance ---------------------------------------------------------- Lance Cottrell loki(a)obscura.com PGP 2.6 key available by finger or server. Mixmaster, the next generation remailer, is now available! http://obscura.com/~loki/Welcome.html or FTP to obscura.com "Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra. Suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night the ice weasels come." --Nietzsche ----------------------------------------------------------

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Re: Risks of a style anonymizer?
by E. ALLEN SMITH 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: IN%"wlkngowl(a)unix.asb.com" "Deranged Mutant" 17-FEB-1996 18:49:54.40 >One risk of "style anonymizers", though: if the style becomes too generic >it's just another levelling of readability. Usenet and mailing lists can >become that much more boring, if not stupidified with too many spelling >errors and grammatical abuses. Having style anonymizers that didn't create spelling problems, but just filtered them out would be a solution to the latter. The former problem can be taken care of by having many different styles that can be used. For instance, it might notice that your sentence length variation wasn't enough for a given style of writing, and prompt you to write some shorter (and/or longer) sentences - including via breaking up the ones you've written already. One would use a different style setting for each nym. -Allen

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Re: A Cyberspace Independence Refutation
by E. ALLEN SMITH 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: IN%"bdavis(a)thepoint.net" "Brian Davis" 17-FEB-1996 23:44:32.70 >On Sat, 17 Feb 1996, Dave Farber wrote: >> The President can not rule anything unconstitutional. He can tell justice >> not to enforce it but sometime local federal prosecutors do what they want >U.S. Attorneys serve at the pleasure of the President. U.S. Attorneys >cannot fire their Assistants -- they can only recommend such action to >the Attorney General or the Deputy Attorney General. As I understand it, what the President can do is order them not to defend its constitutionality - making it _real_ easy to remove in court. BTW, why (other than political cowardice) hasn't Clinton done so with respect to gays in the military? -Allen P.S. Since that last question is getting off the subject, feel free to do it in private email.

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Sound Bites (finale)
by David K. Merriman 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Many thanks to those that posted/emailed sound bites, observations, information, etc. Some were used, some weren't (did what I could with what I had :-). When asked why I was protesting the CDA the way I was, I just told them what popped into my head on the spot: "Because it's *my* Constitution, too." Dave Merriman------------------------------------------------------------- "Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys." P. J. O'Rourke (b. 1947), U.S. journalist. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> For privacy tools: http://www.geocities.com/capitolhill/1148

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Re:
by Dave Emery 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> > >Ettrium > > Yttrium? My lord you've caught me with my rare earths down - its Erbium not Yttrium. Sorry about that ... Dave > -------------------------------+----------------------------------------- > Sean Morgan (sean(a)lucifer.com) | Let me tell you a few bits about myself: > | CACTTGCCGGGTAACACTCCATGAAATTCTTCTCAGCC > http://www.lucifer.com/~sean/ | AGGTGTCGACGCTAGGATCAACCTTTAAGTGAACT... >

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Re: An entity calling itself Kilroy was probably here (was: Web Page Authentication (was: Anti-Nazi Authentication) )
by Jiri Baum 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hello Bryce and Cypherpunks, #ifdef CDA In case I ever want to visit the US, here's a warning I've swiped off the top of some poetry: Leganto, se vi estas pruda Kaj na`uzas vin la amo nuda, Se indignigas vin la bolo De la temperamento suda, Se ^genas vian delikaton La grimaceto am-aluda, Pripensu bone anta`u lego: Tute ne estas mi altruda, For^jetu min, retiru vin Al via dika ^sel' testuda. Leganto! Jen la lasta voko! Tuj sekvos jam dan^gera loko! For^jetu min! Beda`urus mi, Se vin mortigus nervo-^soko! ------------------------------- Leganto! Mi avertas due! Pripensu, ^cu vi legos plue! Pilate levas mi la manojn, Se mi efikos misinflue. Neniu vin devigas legi, Anstata`u indigni^gi brue, For^jetu min, for^jetu min, Ankora`u estas ne malfrue. -- from: Peter Peneter, Sekretaj Sonetoj OK, so maybe my post is nowhere near as good as said poetry, but better safe than sorry :-) #endif Somebody wants us to think that Bryce Wilcox wrote: ... >This quotes some mail sent directly to me by (probably) an >entity calling itself "Jiri Baum". I apologize in advance >if said probable entity is offended at my broadcasting his ... No problem; being unsubscribed at the moment, could you please forward to me any replies? Thanks! ... > +---+---- Bryce > | | >+---+------ Probably an entity calling itself Jiri >| | | | >v v v v >> > > > An entity calling itself Jiri Baum >> > > > <jirib(a)sweeney.cs.monash.edu.au> probably wrote: >> > > ... >> > > >> > > Probably? Didn't I sign it? :-) ... >> I guess it depends on whether we are talking about "Jiri Baum wrote" >> (about which you'd be perfectly right) or "An entity calling itself >> Jiri Baum wrote". Witness: ... >Well now let's say that an active attacker had supplanted >your public key with his own. He is not, really, an entity >who calls himself "Jiri". I mean, sure by using a public >key which he controls and which has "Jiri" on it he is >calling himself "Jiri", but he rarely if ever actually talks >to people and says things which those people associate with >the name "Jiri". ... Hold on - yes she does! That's the point of a MITM: she wants people to associate things she says with the name "Jiri". (I'll use a female MIMT to distinguish her from the real McCoy.) The question asked by PGP when key-signing is: "Based on your own direct first-hand knowledge, are you absolutely certain that you are prepared to solemnly certify that the above public key actually belongs to the user specified by the above user ID?". There is no exception for self-signing. The MIMT controlling the public key would be prepared to solemnly certify that the key belongs to the entity called "Jiri", in other words, that she is "Jiri". ... >More significantly, he never thinks of >*himself* as "Jiri". So in this most fundamental sense he >does not "call himself Jiri". ... Well, she may not *think* of herself as "Jiri", but she is prepared to swear (solemnly certify) that she is. Isn't that "calling herself Jiri"? ... >*You* are the entity who calls yourself Jiri, and I can only >say that you "probably" wrote the above because I'm not sure >if you actually control the public key associated with your >name. ... Well, I control *a* key associated with my name (undisputed, last I checked the keyservers). There may be other persons using the name "Jiri Baum" (though I don't know of any except pre-WW2). ... >mouth and so forth? Maybe I should say "An entity who calls >itself 'Jiri Baum' and is more or less unaware of any nym >collision regarding that nym...". ... Hmm, "John Smith" is going to have trouble signing that one... many people have nym collisions they are aware of, without any malicious intent (eg son named after father). ... >Yeah, that one seems bulletproof... ... Except you don't know whether I'm aware of any nym collision. You could say "An entity who calls itself 'Jiri Baum' and claims to be more or less unaware of any nym collision regarding that nym..." but then you'll have to ask each key-holder whether or not he is aware of such a collision. ... >> True - I guess that's another use - a time-stamping service could >> sign any page that asks for it. Time to whip up yet another CGI ... >Wei Dai <weidai(a)eskimo.com> and Matthew Richardson ><matthew(a)itconsult.co.uk> have both done this. I suspect ... But I thought there were only e-mail timestampers, not web-page timestampers... (ie, a form would ask for a URL and output just a detached signature). ... >I myself use Usenet and mailing lists as a sort of poor >man's time-stamping service. If I invent an idea or some ... I suppose that'll probably work (especially if the idea is worth saving); a thing I've heard of in the traditional world is to put it in an envelope, send it to yourself registered and keep the sealed envelope; but I'm not a lawyer so I wouldn't have a clue to what extent it works... Besides, it's off-net. Please Cc any replies to me as I'm off-cypherpunks at present. ObConspiracyTheory: CoS & CDA ? ObCDA: Jes, ^caste, sen malpuro de pasio Mi vin ornamis per admira kron'... Kio okazis do en subkonscio, Ke, ne timante brilon de l'salon', Levante kapon sin anoncis io: Fripona bub' en mia pantalon'. -- ibid. (I'm *sure* that's indecent somewhere.) Hope I'm making sense, and sorry about the excessive head and tail matter... Jiri -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6 iQCVAgUBMSggaRQ9DWdGOhTVAQGJdwP+IxJ3AxuNUOcDpppoKqtH3ovGeqDcupGu f6KzVxsRCxEESvwwo9s9Chg50+OqAwjHiloiLJY1CCKe1cjFU4/oZi6lBmHqCbrb Zui1caNRMYUHCNpAc6QBrDc4DmZ6y1ymg+lNjzvq2fNAQxOMPRwBZx/h3w8Jftze c7sWILGw6bI= =nGwO -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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