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Re: Monitoring the monitors [Was: Gilmore and Sandfart suck big dicks]
by Dave Hayes 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> In other words, can I separate the censored email without having to > have two accounts? You can write a program to read both the censored and uncensored email, and do a diff. You wouldn't have to see it, and it could be done so that a "fake" address subscribes to the censored list. Maybe I should offer this as a service to the uncensored list? ;-) ------ Dave Hayes - Altadena CA, USA - dave(a)jetcafe.org Freedom Knight of Usenet - http://www.jetcafe.org/~dave/usenet None should say "I can trust" or "I cannot trust" until they are the master of the option of trusting or not trusting.

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microcurrency: Netscape vs. Microsoft
by Vladimir Z. Nuri 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

it seems that microcurrency has still not hit the "big time" yet. or perhaps some people see otherwise. what is the evidence for how far it has penetrated ala DigiCash etc? I haven't seen much myself. I predict that microcurrency will not catch on in a big way until it is integrated with browsers, and when it is, it will be adopted in an insanely large rush like the way the web itself caught on with the GUI (and was mostly comatose before it). I'd like to have seen microcurrency catch on like a brushfire at this point, and was trying to figure out why it hadn't, and focused on the above key aspect. hence, I wonder: WHO WILL BE THE FIRST TO INCORPORATE A MICROCURRENCY FEATURE IN THEIR BROWSER, MICROSOFT OR NETSCAPE? why am I shouting? because I hope that we can create a buzz around this question, to the point that both manufacturers begin to realize how much is at stake in this single little feature. I'd like to see speculation and articles about it in the trade press. let it turn into a hot topic of conversation.. do either MS or Netsacpe have plans to do so right now? I suspect the future of the browser wars will belong to he who does the microcurrency feature. here's how it might work: the browser has an internal piggyback that can be filled up with cash. it has various features that prohibit a charge of greater than some fixed limit of being made, per time, per site etc... also in no case can more money than is currently in the piggy bank be charged. once the charge hits, there is no contesting allowed, because the charge is so low. a little bar on the user interface could indicate how much cash is left. the idea would also be to invent some new html tags that indicate the charge on a link. the charge is incurred when 1/2 of the page is sent (there would be all kinds of hacks in which people could retrieve only part of a page to avoid the charge, hence this limit or some variation thereof). so when I move my mouse over a link in the browser, I see not only its address as with Netscape's, but also some charge that will incur when I hit it. there could be color coding and little graphics for costs also. notice how much crypto really caught on when Netscape incorporated it, and how this action alone did more for the proliferation of crypto in cyberspace, almost, than all prior efforts combined. I think that microcurrency will be unleashed in a very similar way. the system I describe above can be built up pretty easily from existing technology such as DigiCash. pretty much all the major ingredients are available.. it's just a matter of time before some enterprising programmers plug it all together in an easy to use way. (as far as I know the Digicash software is not easily integrated with any browser, am I correct?) by framing the question as I have above, the question is no longer "how should microcurrency be implemented", or "should it be", but "who will be the first to do it?", a nice competitive incentive to the key companies involved. so, Netscape, Microsoft, are either of you listening? do you have any idea how much is riding on this option? are you working on it right now? if not, are you prepared to face the consequences? has anyone heard any rumors about their intention to implement microcurrency? I've long predicted some pretty revolutionary strides in cyberspace that will make all development up to now look pretty sickly and pale, when microcurrency is invented and brought into a trivial-to-use GUI. in a sense it is the the economic system that the whole industry (or even the whole world) has been waiting for ever since its beginning. it will unleash a torrent of frenzied innovation and reorganization beyond what anyone has ever seen or thought possible. p.s. has anyone done a plugin that handles cash in the way I am referring to? this may be a really neat way for third-party developers to cash in on this, but I suspect that it's so crucial that the browser manufacturers will eventually incorporate it themselves.

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infinity & set membership
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi all, "The least upper bound of a set of real numbers is often called the supremum, the greatest lower bound its infimum. In general the supremum and infimum of a set ARE MEMBERS OF THE SET or at least LIMITS OF SEQUENCES OF MEMBERS OF THE SET." [capitalization is mine] In this case the suprenum is infinity. Introduction to Calculus and Analysis Courant and John Vol. 1, pp. 97, Section e. 1965 Edition Library of Congress: 65-16403 Jim Choate CyberTects ravage(a)ssz.com

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GSM technology
by azur＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

GSM DATA FEATURES GSM is particularly suited for mobile data communications. All GSM base systems support 9.6kbit/s circuit-switched data services, soon many will increase transmission speed up to 28.8kbit/s. A new part of the GSM standard, known as High Speed Circuit Switched Data (HSCSD), is being developed which will boost user capacity up to 64 kbit/s, and higher. Interconnecting this 64 kbit/s wireless capability with public ISDN networks, for example, will give mobile users complete end-to-end digital connectivity with the attendant benefits of very fast set-up times and high link quality. Technically, HSCSD requires a new radio link protocol; a modification of the existing protocol used to provide the GSM voice channel. GSM uses TDMA (Time Division Multiple Access) technology, which divides each 200 kHz carrier into eight timeslots. To provide a single voice channel, one timeslot is used; one timeslot is also used to provide a single 9.6 kbit/s data circuit. However, all eight slots will be used to provide one 64 kbit/s circuit. The main benefit of this approach is that it is designed for the existing GSM infra-structure. There is no need for operators to change their entire network infrastructure in order to implement it. Operators will therefore be able to implement HSCSD in a quick and efficient way, once the specification has been ratified. ENCRYPTED GSM LINKS If the GSM phone includes a data port, as some already do, just connect your laptop, dial your ISP and 'push' the encrypted traffic over that link (e.g., using TCP/IP and PGPfone). REFERENCES If you really want to dive headfirst into GSM, the following is a resource list generated in 1994: @article(rahn, author = {Rahnema, Moe}, title = "Overview of the {GSM} System and Protocol Architecture", journal = {IEEE Communications Magazine}, month = {April}, year = 1993) @incollection(chee, author = {Cheeseman, David}, title = "The pan-{European} cellular mobile radio system", booktitle = {Personal and Mobile Radio Systems}, editor = {R.C.V. Macario}, publisher = {Peter Peregrinus}, address = {London}, year = 1991) @incollection(bals1, author = {Balston, David M.}, title = "The pan-{European} cellular technology", booktitle = {Personal and Mobile Radio Systems}, editor = {R.C.V. Macario}, publisher = {Peter Peregrinus}, address = {London}, year = 1991) @article(moha, author = {Mohan, Seshadri and Jain, Ravi}, title = "Two User Location Strategies for Personal Communication Services", journal = {IEEE Personal Communications}, volume = 1, number = 1, year = 1994) @inproceedings(haug, author = {Haug, Thomas}, title = "Overview of the {GSM} Project", booktitle = {EUROCON 88}, month = {June}, year = 1988) @inproceedings(mall, author = {Mallinder, Bernard J. T.}, title = "Specification Methodology Applied to the {GSM} System", booktitle = {EUROCON 88}, month = {June}, year = 1988) @inproceedings(aude, author = {Audestad, Jan A.}, title = "Network Aspects of the {GSM} System", booktitle = {EUROCON 88}, month = {June}, year = 1988) @incollection(bals2, author = {Balston, D. M.}, title = "The pan-{European} System: {GSM}", booktitle = {Cellular Radio Systems}, editor = {Balston, D. M. and Macario, R.C.V.}, publisher = {Artech House}, address = {Boston}, year = 1993) @incollection(wats, author = {Watson, C.}, title = "Radio Equipment for {GSM}", booktitle = {Cellular Radio Systems}, editor = {Balston, D. M. and Macario, R.C.V.}, publisher = {Artech House}, address = {Boston}, year = 1993) @incollection(harr1, author = {Harris, I.}, title = "Data in the {GSM} Cellular Network", booktitle = {Cellular Radio Systems}, editor = {Balston, D. M. and Macario, R.C.V.}, publisher = {Artech House}, address = {Boston}, year = 1993) @incollection(harr2, author = {Harris, I.}, title = "Facsimile over Cellular Radio", booktitle = {Cellular Radio Systems}, editor = {Balston, D. M. and Macario, R.C.V.}, publisher = {Artech House}, address = {Boston}, year = 1993) @article(dech, author = {D\'echaux, C. and Scheller, R.}, title = "What are {GSM} and {DCS}", journal = {Electrical Communication}, month = {2nd Quarter}, year = 1993) @article(feld, author = {Feldmann, M. and Rissen, J. P.}, title = "{GSM} Network Systems and Overall System Integration", journal = {Electrical Communication}, month = {2nd Quarter}, year = 1993) @article(bezl, author = {Bezler, M. and others}, title = "{GSM} Base Station System", journal = {Electrical Communication}, month = {2nd Quarter}, year = 1993) @article(schm, author = {Schmid, E. H. and K\"ahler, M.}, title = "{GSM} Operation and Maintenance", journal = {Electrical Communication}, month = {2nd Quarter}, year = 1993) @article(lobe, author = {Lobensommer, Hans and Mahner, Helmut}, title = "{GSM} -- a {European} Mobile Radio Standard for the World Market", journal = {Telcom Report International}, volume = 15, number = {3-4}, year = 1992) @article(hube, author = {Huber, Josef--Franz}, title = "Advanced Equipment for an Advanced Network", journal = {Telcom Report International}, volume = 15, number = {3-4}, year = 1992) @book(winc, author = {Winch, Robert G.}, title = "Telecommunication Transmission Systems", publisher = {McGraw-Hill}, address = {New York}, year = 1993) @inproceedings(natv, author = {Natvig, Jon E. and Hansen, Stein and de Brito, Jorge}, title = "Speech Processing in the pan-{European} Digital Mobile Radio System ({GSM}) --- System Overview", booktitle = {IEEE GLOBECOM 1989}, month = {November}, year = 1989) @inproceedings(vary, author = {Vary, P. and others}, title = "Speech Codec for the {European} Mobile Radio System", booktitle = {IEEE GLOBECOM 1989}, month = {November}, year = 1989) @inproceedings(sout, author = {Southcott, C. B. and others}, title = "Voice Control of the pan-{European} Digital Mobile Radio System", booktitle = {IEEE GLOBECOM 1989}, month = {November}, year = 1989) @unpublished(nils, author = {Nilsson, Torbjorn}, title = "Toward a New Era in Mobile Communications", note = {http://193.78.100.33/ (Ericsson WWW server)}) PGP Fingerprint: FE 90 1A 95 9D EA 8D 61 81 2E CC A9 A4 4A FB A9 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Steve Schear (N7ZEZ) | Internet: azur(a)netcom.com Lamarr Labs | Voice: 1-702-658-2654 7075 West Gowan Road | Fax: 1-702-658-2673 Suite 2148 | Las Vegas, NV 89129 | --------------------------------------------------------------------- Internet, electronic currency and wireless development 1935 will go down in history! For the first time a civilized nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead in the future! --Adolf Hitler

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Re: IMDMP: SOURCE CODE RELEASE ANNOUNCEMENT
by lucifer＠dhp.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 7:26 AM 1/18/1997, Sandy Sandfort wrote: >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > SANDY SANDFORT > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > >C'punks, > >On Sat, 18 Jan 1997 paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk wrote: > >> ...but I must say the list has gone downhill sharply since >> the start of the censorship. > >I guess this a classic case of seeing what you want to see. >(Uh, Paul, the moderation experiment HASN'T STARTED YET.) No, he's got it right. The announcement of the moderation experiment was followed by a decline in interesting threads. "Why is the stock price falling? We only announced nationalization. IT HASN'T STARTED YET."

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CFP'97
by Bruce Koball 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The Seventh Conference on Computers, Freedom, and Privacy March 11-14, 1997 San Francisco Airport Hyatt Regency; Burlingame, California CFP'97 : Commerce & Community CFP'97 will assemble experts, advocates, and interested people from a broad spectrum of disciplines and backgrounds in a balanced public forum to address the impact of new technologies on society. This year's theme addresses two of the main drivers of social and technological transformation. How is private enterprise changing cyberspace? How are traditional and virtual communities reacting? Topics in the wide-ranging main track program will include: PERSPECTIVES ON CONTROVERSIAL SPEECH THE COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT OF THE NET GOVERNMENTAL & SOCIAL IMPLICATIONS OF DIGITAL MONEY INTERNATIONAL PERSPECTIVES ON CRYPTOGRAPHY CYPHERPUNKS & CYBERCOPS REGULATION OF ISPs SPAMMING INFOWAR INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY AND INFO-PROPERTY THE 1996 ELECTIONS: CREATING A NEW DEMOCRACY THE COMING COLLAPSE OF THE NET CFP'97 will feature parallel-track lunchtime workshops during the main conference on topics including: THE CASE AGAINST PRIVACY HOW A SKIPTRACER OPERATES CYBERBANKING HOW THE ARCHITECTURE REGULATES RIGHTS IN AVATAR CYBERSPACE NATIONAL I.D. CARDS PUBLIC KEY INFRASTRUCTURES EUROPEAN IP LAW SEXUAL HARASSMENT IN CYBERSPACE VIRTUAL COMMUNITIES DOMAIN NAMES ARCHIVES, INDEXES & PRIVACY GOVERNMENT REGULATION OF ECASH CRYPTO AND THE 1st AMENDMENT The conference will also offer a number of in-depth tutorials on subjects including: * The Economics of the Internet * Regulation of Internet Service Providers * The Latest in Cryptography * The Constitution in Cyberspace * Info War: The Day After * Personal Information and Advertising on the Net * Transborder Data Flows and the Coming European Union * Intellectual Property Rights on the Net: A Primer INFORMATION A complete conference brochure and registration information are available on our web site at: http://www.cfp.org For an ASCII version of the conference brochure and registration information, send email to: cfpinfo(a)cfp.org

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Mondex
by nobody＠zifi.genetics.utah.edu 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Warning: if you fuck a Tim Mayflower in the ass, a tapeworm might bite your penis. /// (0 0) ____ooO_(_)_Ooo__ Tim Mayflower

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I beg you, PLEASE prove that 0.123456789101112131415 is IRRATIONAL
by Secret Squirrel 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dear Cypher Punks, I BEG YOU TO HELP ME!!! Is it possible to prove that number 0.1234567891011121314151617181920... iz irrational? Or may be it is rational? Also, another question for math geniuses here: Is it REALLY true that there are real numbers that cannot be generated by any algorithm? Some guy said that since the set of algorithms is countable, but the set of real numbers is more than countable, there must be some numbers for which there is no algorithms that generate them. But I still do not believe him. Also, is it true that the sequence of digits in e is random because the ONLY way to get to the p'th digit is to calculate the p-1'st digits? Also, is it the correct definition of a real number: ``A real number is the class of numbers which can represent the length of an arbitrary line.'' I AM REAL DESPERATE FOR YOUR ASS ISTANCE.

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Re: One time pads and randomness?
by i.am.not.a.number＠best.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

as i have writ before, the sources i have read say that digits of the transcendentals are THOUGHT to be uniformly and 'randomly' distributed --- in quotes because there are many criteria for randomness and i don't mean to imply a specific one. however, this supposision is no stronger than a conjecture. has not been proven, AFAIK. At 02:06 PM 1/18/97 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: >By the way, did anyone try to run "all randomness tests" on a sequence >of digits of, say, decimal representation of "e"? > >igor > >Blake Coverett wrote: >> >> > I want to use a one time pad pased crypto system. I understand that the >> > randomness of the pad genorator is key to security(other than lossing the >> > keys). What I want to know is if I use a psuedo-RNG that maybe repeats its >> > self every 1000 characters and use it to only encrypt messagase that are >> > 100's of charaters long, will this be a major security risk? >> >> I'm afraid you've fallen into one of the standard traps. A PRNG can *not* >> make a OTP no matter how you use it. >> >> The total amount of entropy in a PRNG is the amount of entropy in the seed >> you use to key it. All the other bits are directly derived from that seed. >> >> A true OTP is completely secure from an information-theory point of view >> because every byte has a full eight bits of entropy. A PRNG can never >> have this. >> >> Having said all this, it is possible to make a good cipher from a PRNG. >> RC4, for example, is exactly that and the variable sized key is the >> seed for the PRNG. It is however very difficult to come up with a >> good algorithm for that cryptographically sound PRNG and you would >> be much further ahead to use an existing one rather that trying to >> roll your own. >> >> > Say I create a 1 million character one time pad that passes all of the >> > randomness tests. It is "truely random". I place it on two computers. Now >> > when these two computers want to send email computer "A" grabs a chunk of the >> > one time pad starting at a random point and encrypts it. It labels the email >> > with the random starting point and sends it to "B". There "B" moves to the >> > random point and begins decryption. During to process both computers mark >> > that section of the OTP used so that they don't retransmit with it. I realize >> > this has a limited amount of messages before it is used up. But would this be >> > secure? Any suggestions, complaints, big gapping holes I missed? >> >> I don't see anything wrong as such, but there is nothing to be gained either. >> If your random data is real OTP material there is no need to skip to a random >> byte within it, just start at the beginning and use it in sequence. If your random >> data is the output of a PRNG like the above then random starting point doesn't >> buy you much additional security because the entire set of keying material can >> be recreated from the seed. It may increase the work-factor of searching for >> the key, but it also imposes the practical problem of keeping all that keying >> material secure. >> >> More importantly don't confuse statistically random with cryptographically >> random. Just because a bunch of bits passes all the randomness test >> you can think of doesn't mean it contains 100% entropy. Consider the >> digits of an irrational number like sqrt(2) or pi, the digits appear statistically >> random but they can be recreated from just a tiny bit of knowledge. >> >> A good litmus test is to ask yourself if there is any way you can >> reproduce those bits. If there is, they aren't a one time pad. >> (Of course even if you can't it doesn't mean they are good. :-) >> >> regards, >> -Blake >> > > > > - Igor. > >

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Re: I beg you, PLEASE prove that 0.123456789101112131415 is IRRATIONAL (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi, Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 12:20:45 -0600 > From: Sir Robin of Locksley <tozser(a)stolaf.edu> > >Is it possible to prove that number 0.1234567891011121314151617181920... > >iz irrational? > > Most definately. All you need to do is prove that the set of this number is > uncountable, ergo is irrational. If you have friend who have done math in real > analysis they can explain more. irrational means 'not expressible as the ratio of two integers', this does not imply uncountable. Whether 0.12345678910111213... is irrational or not depends on how we choose to define a rational number where the denominator and numerator are both approaching infinity and how quickly those approaches occur. [ What is your definition of infinity/infinity ?] As alluded to before, 0.12345678910111213 = 12345678910111213.... / n (where n = infinity) 0.123456789101112... is certainly countable because by the definition of countable it must be 1-to-1 with the counting numbers (ie non-negative integers), which this one clearly is since it contains each positive non-zero integer (ie the set of numbers required to produce the number are clearly less, 1 less to be exact, than the counting numbers). > If you show me an algorythm that calculates the real number TT (=3.14.....) > I'll give you a Nobel Prize personally! c=2pi*r so, pi = c/2r You have a algorithm (ie recipe) for determining pi to whatever degree of precision you are willing to go to. If you insist on using a digital computer (whose domain of operation is limited to rationals by defintion) then you are doomed to fail. However, move to analog computers (eg a compass) and it can be quite easy to calculate, though not easy to plug into an equation. > Well, that is not entirely true... The length of any arbitrary line can be any > number, rational, natural, etc. Real numbers are the numbers that defy all > other categorization (they are not rational, irrational, natural, etc.) They > are complex and despite any instinctual perception, there are a lot of them! Complex numbers are not a member of the Reals, rather the Reals are a sub-set of the Complex. [ I recognize this is not what you meant but, "The slovenliness of our language makes it easier to have foolish thoughts." George Orwell ] VNR Concise Encyclopedia of Mathematics, 15th ed. ISBN 0-442-22646-2 pp. 74 "If every segment is to have a numerical measure as its length, then a new domain of numbers is needed, an extension to the domain of rational numbers. This new domain can no longer be constructed, as in the previous case, by number pairs. But hints for its construction are provided by a theoretical analysis of the measuring process for segments." A mathematicaly rigorous defintion of the class of numbers called 'Real' is that which equates the members of that set to the possible lengths of an arbitrary line segment. Jim Choate CyberTects ravage(a)ssz.com

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