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Prime Numbers
by garet.jax＠nitelog.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I'm presently trying to generate a list of prime numbers on a friend's 486 DX2 66mhz computer, but that is rather slow going as you might imagine. I'd like to get a list of all the prime numbers up to 80 digits in length, and I know these numbers must have already been computed by someone... atleast for cryptography purposes. Does anyone know where I can get such a list, or a portion thereof? Thanks in advance, -Garet {Garet.Jax(a)nitelog.com}

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MIME
by Peter shipley 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

it would be nice if people who send PGP's email would also place the appropriate "Content-Type" in there headers so there email in a easy manor. -Pete

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No Subject
by Richard Savel 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

To everyone on this list who flamed me. The number of flames I have received for accidentally sending a "please take me off the list" to the list itself in addition to the correct list has been truly offensive. I asked to be taken off this list over 1.5 weeks ago and when I still received mail I thought I would, like I have seen others do on this group, send a request to the list itself. I have been using various items on the internet for years now and have never, EVER, been treated so poorly by a group. Thank you all for sending me notes telling me not to send unsubscribe messages to the list. I am well aware of that fact, but you all took up much more "bandwidth" by sending me all those flames. Please try and refrain from sending every person that you think is a newbie a flame informing them of their stupidity. Sincerely, Richard Savel rsavel(a)welchlink.welch.jhu.edu

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Re: real encryptor
by Karl Lui Barrus 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Matt wrote: >Karl Lui Barrus <klbarrus(a)owlnet.rice.edu> wrote: >> The program I described earlier (RSA.tar.Z) is pretty minimal. >> Secret keys are just text, not locked by a hash of a passphrase, >> no "name" information attached. Public keys are the same: no >> username attached, no web of trust, etc. The output is in >> binary form, with no headers or checksums or anything. >> PGP has keyrings, this program requires you to keep track of >> seperate public keys on your own. >Does this program exist? If so where can I get it? Sorry about the confusion Matt, I had sent a letter to Xenon about his idea for stripped PGP describing this pure RSA program, and didn't send it to the list. Anyway, the program RSA.tar.gz is at ghost.dsi.unimi.it in /pub/crypt. It implements pure RSA, no IDEA session keys, no MD5 hash of a passphrase, no checksums, no keyring, no usernames, etc. It is about as minimal as you can get. Which may be perfect for your purposes :-) Because it is just RSA, it is SLOW!! Which is to be expected, but all the same the amount of time required to encrypt a reasonable sized file is surprising. Heck, even generating a decent size key takes quite a bit of time. I'm sure the code could stand some optimizations, but even still public key crypto is much slower than secret key. Here's what a public key from the program looks like (in fact, it's my public key for this program): BB56AA026595006ED21C22FE5E5DD9432285846BB000627D0CFAA4FD28960EF2 33FABB5F35102460A001C7B2E37DE93C757C3935972086AD55BC69B36C438A05 291F3B75786BA0E4B9DBF43F6B5AE799A148D779303600D007449E258A8F3ABC BA65393C0627BE386F9 # B6E980C29F3D38C4898541565BCFE062AA50C60E4E411379143AD905E9A0257E 424FA4324B6D0BA71E6FBAC3C18D0F6A53D35CD7C3534DDB0D07ED642A8C7239 227DE4C742F141BCAE9698426E005F3F15B2E0AED6A0F125E69FC503B6057184 9124780B096F1C3ADE5 This public key and the associated secret key correspond to about a 700 bit modulus (100 digit and 110 digit primes). The program encodes numbers as an ascii string, but that is it. The output of the program is the encrypted file, which has no header or magic byte information, etc. Decryption takes an encrypted file back to the original form (except it looks like it pads and doesn't toss the padding, maybe a bug) but if you use the wrong secret key (i.e. not encrypted for you) the program decrypts the file to junk. Or you can decrypt junk into different junk :-) If you edit your keys and change a few characters, or do the same to the encrypted file, you don't get "checksum" errors, you just get an unreadable file. Due to the slowness of the program, I think for testing the output for randomness one should create relatively small keys (say 20 or 30 digits max) and encrypt large files. Of course, at these sizes, it is much easier to factor the modulus than brute force IDEA, for example. Also, if you want larger keys be wary of the included script which generates keys for you; it assumes you want a small key (and thus will mess up the generated files). So if indeed this is nothing but RSA then it should be impossible to tell the output of the file from random noise. (And incidentally, I checked out Chaitin's Algorithmic Information Theory and have tried to read the chapter on random numbers, but let's just say that it is extremely slow reading :) I guess that's because it builds on stuff from previous chapters or something...) Karl Barrus klbarrus(a)owlnet.rice.edu -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.3a iQCVAgUBLVmLfoOA7OpLWtYzAQGpjwP+NmT5R3UlAbRN6A4YCk9DwqfjL1NlbhhQ 3ZDIqbRQISrrftcxNQv5doxUQNLKiQ2WaRBfQBuowCO3/mrjocsPK7QvA5P5on0R N40uaudEpSCoEyem+DalRRKrrtSM9qfKNWxEQyL2OAI6cuw9zSvrXT+Ih9qtqigd wKUju6ccoLM= =Tsrs -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Meeting Ramblings
by Robert A. Hayden 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Just thought I'd take a few minutes to off some comments on the virtual meeting on 2/9. 1) Agenda There was a problem in that, while the topic of the hall was set, imeediately everyone launched into every other concern they had as well. This led to a total confusion that eventually splintered the participants. I think that next time, there should be a set agenda, with a time limit for each subject. For example 10:00 - 10:25 Issues of Copyright on Usenet 10:30 - 10:55 Remailers 11:00 - 11:25 Anonimity on the Net 11:30 - 11:55 DigiCash Thus, at 10:00, there would be a topic, at 10:25, the topic is wound down (either moving to another location or finishing) and people gear up for a topic change. That way, if I had no interest in copyright, I could wait until 10:30 to sign on. In the meantime, if people want to talk about something other than the main topic, they can amble off to their own room. (perhaps build some 'meeting rooms' off of the main hall, and people can go in there, set the topic of the room and talk about that, while the main hall has the main topic) 2) Speaking The idea of there being four people speaking at one time is good, but there was a problem of people getting a speaker position and refusing to yield, thus people never moved up the queue. This is bad. Perhaps auto-yields after 2 'says' (in case you munged the first) would help. Hmm, now that I think about it, I guess that's about all. I really think the meeting was a good idea, and I hope it happens again real soon. Just a little more organizing would have been more helpful. Thanks to all who did this :-) ____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden(a)krypton.mankato.msus.edu \ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=- \/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> In the United States, they \/ Finger for PGP 2.3a Public Key <=> first came for us in Colorado... - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=- (GEEK CODE 1.0.1) GAT d- -p+(---) c++(++++) l++ u++ e+/* m++(*)@ s-/++ n-(---) h+(*) f+ g+ w++ t++ r++ y+(*) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.3a iQCVAgUBLVqnNp3BsrEqkf9NAQFHVAP9En8qST6+IWDncrVuT1DJRHGiKrQlRTkx dPsZspkdyeRzTP7nQC4ga1EcFiEYICRC0ee1kh0QH6S019VsBhqDfpb6dnh/HzvM A9+tnU7vNNPXzMfboU5/jGvS8U8C2sFkw+0bGRMyTntVT4ZvSbenu3/7rxQcovXp 0ZEAWz+WOGs= =GlgI -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Oh No! Nazis on the Nets
by danisch＠ira.uka.de 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> Could I publish a newspaper containing Nazi propaganda in Germany? What do you want to hear? If I say yes, then you call the german Nazis. If I say no, then we have no press freedom in your eyes. Give us a chance to have 'press freedom' *and* to protect us against Nazis. > No? > > Then everyone doesn't have the right to produce a newspaper, does > everyone? Don't mix this! Whether *everyone* has the right to produce a newspaper and whether you can print *everything* into a newspaper, are two different things. Can we allow to print everything into a newspaper? No, not everything. And I think, the law is well choosen. The important detail is, that you are not forbidden to print a newspaper before, but they can be after you *after* you have print anything bad. For example you are not allowed to call for hating other races, but this is not special for the press. This is everywhere. The limits for the press are low and they forbid themes only which are *real* criminal [at least in my oppinion]. Look at the mailbox system used by neo-nazis. We can't allow this. But if we take them their mailboxes away, everyone says "The Germans don't even allow computers". You can't have both. In the last months they found nazi-newspapers with exact descriptions of how to build bombs and lists of people to be killed for speaking against nazis. You do not expect us to accept this, do you? The restrictions against such things are not a law against the press. It is forbidden, independend whether it comes in a newspaper or whereever else. > I feel it is a fundamental right to be able to publish whatever > newspaper one would like to publish, and I say that as a Jew who lost > most of his family to Nazi murderers in the second world war. Again, I feel beeing pressed to an answer which will be wrong, whatever I answer. > Restrictions on speech ultimately backfire, providing oppressors with > mechanisms to silence opponents. Protection from Nazism must come from > strong respect for the freedom of all to express themselves and live > as they wish so long as they do not harm others, and not from > preventing the dissemination of "dangerous" ideas. Spoken well, but far away from reality. If you see 100 Nazis and 10.000 people. The 10.000 don't have a job, don't have money, don't know what to do and are not the intellectual elite. They have a lot of problems and don't know where the problems came from and how to solve them. Now come 100 Nazis and tell them, everything were the fault of ugly, stupid foreigner, which steal their jobs, rape their women and are bad by nature, they should be killed or thrown out. Now you see, that a lot of these 10.000 are going to believe this. Many of them come from the German Democratic Republic and they learned to believe everything anyone tells them. Other just want to beat anyone. Do you want to do nothing and let them continue until it is too late? Didn't we have this before? > Only when a neonazi > attempts to beat someone up or set fire to a building does his action > become the legitimate subject of prosecution. No, then it is too late. When building are burning, people die. Some turkish people died because their house was set on fire. You can't bring them back. Can't you remember what Americans told about the Germans when the two american sportsmen were beaten some months ago? > The oppression of > communication or of ideas, regardless of how repugnant, is > incompatible with a free society. A free society must be able to defend. If the target of the communication is to stop the society beeing free, a free society can't accept this. A free society must be free to *stay* free. Hadmut

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Returned mail: Host unknown (Name server: host not found) (fwd)
by Grand Epopt Feotus 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

You're eqipped with a hundred billion nueron brain, that's wired and fired, and it's a reality generating device, but you've got too do it. Free youself ----Tim Leary---- To: cypherpunks(a)taod.com Subject: Re: Oh No! Nazis on the Nets From: Grand Epopt Feotus <68954(a)brahms.udel.edu> Date: Thu, 10 Feb 1994 17:31:50 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <9402102018.AA08946(a)deathstar.iaks.ira.uka.de> Hehe, well I can give my software to whomever I want too 8) Hmm, let's try to keep this from becoming the "This is Your Democracy Forum" and generating a "my system of govt is better than yours" cause that doesnt really accomplish much. And besides, we all know that no govt is goo govt 8) You're eqipped with a hundred billion nueron brain, that's wired and fired, and it's a reality generating device, but you've got too do it. Free youself ----Tim Leary----

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Re: Oh No! Nazis on the Nets
by wcs＠anchor.ho.att.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> From: danisch(a)ira.uka.de (Hadmut Danisch) >From what Hadmut says, it appears that German law is as confused as American law about whether freedom of the press means freedom of the press or not. > you are not allowed to do it anonymous. Everything must contain > an address of someone responsible. In bigger papers you have There are sometimes laws about this in the US, but if I remember correctly the courts say they are unconstitutional. They do suppress freedom of speech and press, because they impose restrictions on content, and because they make it easy for the government to find and harass writers who oppose it. > an "impressum" in small papers and pamphlets you have > a line like "responsible in the sense of press law: Joe Dalton" > And of course you will get sued or accused if you write anything > which violates law, but this depends on _what_ you are writing. In the US, you can get sued for saying untrue things about people, except public figures, but only the victim can sue. There are not supposed to be other writings which violate law, but even so they make and enforce laws against pornography, and in the past even speaking out against government policy has been made illegal (Schenck case in World War 1, writing pamphlets against the draft before there was one.) What kinds of things are illegal to write in Germany? Grundsetz > Art. 5 > (1) Jeder hat das Recht, seine Meinung in Wort, Schrift und Bild frei > zu du_ern und zu verbreiten und sich aus allgemein zugdnglichen > Quellen ungehindert zu unterrichten. Die Pressefreiheit und die > Freiheit der Berichterstattung durch Rundfunk und Film werden > gewdhrleistet. Eine Zensur findet nicht statt. > > (2) Diese Rechte finden ihre Schranken in den Vorschriften der > allgemeinen Gesetze, den gesetzlichen Bestimmungen zum Schutze der > Jugend und in dem Recht der persvnlichen Ehre. I couldn't translate (2) - does this say they can make laws to protect the young people from bad ideas and protect personal honor/reputation? [From earlier mail ] > I don't know at the moment whether it is allowed to sell "Mein Kampf", > but what is the question: One says that in Germany nobody cares > about the right-wing, the other says that you can't buy such books. > What do you expect? Shall we care or not? We can't fight again > right-wing people and sell such books! Of course you can fight against them without censorship - the weapon to use is truth, said often and loudly. If you use the violence of censorship a against themyou are using their tools and you are no better than them. You also say, by censoring books, that the common people are fools who can not tell the difference between truth and lies. > I'm sure that american press freedom is not better than german ones. > Seen from Germany, american presidents elections look like a mixture > of a football game and a tv show. Is is possible that we have different Seen from America, that's what they look like too :-) > oppinions about 'democracy' ? (I'm sure german elections don't look > better for americans...) We usually don't see German elections in US news. Sometimes stories about the rise of the right wing or Greens, and sometimes the results of the elections. > In Germany it is always surprising what american people don't > know about Germany. How many of you think that we wear > trousers of leather, eat Sauerkraut and have women with > blond plaits and name "Gretchen" all the time, not without > a "Kuckucksuhr" at the wall? When I was last there, I ate lots of Sauerkraut and beer, and there were some blond women on the S-Bahn, but nobody in Lederhosen. People did bring dogs on the train... :-)

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Re: Oh No! Nazis on the Nets
by danisch＠ira.uka.de 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Perry E. Metzger says: > In the U.S., it is perfectly lawful for me to print a newspaper > ANONYMOUSLY, and sell it on streetcorners. Indeed, I may print > anything I wish anonymously, be it a book, a magazine, or a newspaper. So? If you find a paper with YOUR face, YOUR name and big letters KILL THIS MAN FOR BEING A JEW, would you think this is okay? Would you give out PGP for mailing such calls encyphered? > Do you not have to register your newspaper? No, we don't. This is not true. Who told you this tale? Is it "freedom of press" if someone tells american people that germans would have to register their newspapers? Hadmut

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Re: Oh No! Nazis on the Nets
by danisch＠ira.uka.de 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Perry E. Metzger says: > Incorrect. Those who do not understand freedom think that by > oppressing Nazis and preventing them from speaking you have somehow > protected freedom. However, in doing so, you have used the methods of > the Nazis. If a murderer tries to kill you and you have a gun, you will shoot back, I assume, even if you use the same method as him. > You can fight Naziism by spreading information about the evils of > Naziism. I wish it were true. They were trying this for many years. We all thought that Naziism will never come back because the lesson (WW II) was big enough. But it didn't work as you can see in the news magazines. What do you believe, is it a good idea to publish software like PGP if it is used by the Nazis to organize their work? > You can fight it by vigorously prosecuting those who commit > acts of violence. If you can get them... > > > I'm sure that american press freedom is not better than german ones. > > Untrue. In the U.S., I can start a newspaper without any licenses from > the Government, and I can print anything I wish in that newspaper > without fear of government prosecution. (I might be sued by a private > party for libel if I intentionally lie about someone, but thats quite > different.) In Germany, I cannot just open a newspaper and print, say, > Nazi editorials in it. Untrue. In Germany, I can do the very same. And I do not get sued by private party with lawyers who want to get some millions of dollars. And whether you are allowed to open your Nazi editorial depends on what you understand under "Nazi". In this discussion "Nazi" is everything from an idea to settings buildings on fire. If I say allow, they say I would allow killing people. If I forbid, they say I forbid to publish ideas. Tell me what is "Nazi" in your argument. > > Seen from Germany, american presidents elections look like a mixture > > of a football game and a tv show. > > Yes, but that is a statement that the press in the U.S. is bad, not > that it is unfree. Freedom and quality are orthogonal. Untrue. A press without freedom can't be good. And if your press is bad and not interested in publishing anything real, then of course you don't need to control it. But this is neither freedom nor quality. > > In Germany I can get my Cryptosoftware from whereever I want, > > Actually, you can do that here, too. We just cant send the software > overseas. I can publish everything about Cryptography and publish it everywhere over the world. I can publish newpapers with nude girls on the front. Is this possible in your country? As far as I know in your country a lot of things are controlled by religious groups. Is this freedom? Hadmut

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