- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

Re: Forwared message from Pres. of juno.com
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 12:55 AM 9/17/96, Rabid Wombat wrote: >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 15:25:58 -0400 >From: Charles Ardai <charles(a)staff.juno.com> >To: Rabid Wombat <wombat(a)mcfeely.bsfs.org> >Subject: Annoying spam incident(s) ^^^^ >> Complaints about spamming and cross-posting probably won't get you far, ^^^^^^^^ >A couple of clarifications: Juno has never sent a single piece of spam and, ^^^^ ... And so on, with the word "spam" being used frequently throughout the exchange. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall seeing _any_ "spam" from the account holders at Juno. What I _do_ recall is one or more young kids signed up to our list and then began engaging in posting to the list various boring comments about their interests, their "warez," and so on. Stupid comments are not necessarily (or even usually) spam. When we start calling stupid postings "spam" and complaining to sysadmins about "spamming" by a user, we have seriously devalued any use the term might have once had. This applies whether the stupid posts are from "talker" or from _me_. We have an open mailing list, with anyone able to subscribe via majordomo. This means we'll get inexperienced users, flamers, and, yes, even true commercial spammers who use the open-reflector nature of the list to post their ads. (By the way, when various political organizations, e.g., EPIC, the Libertarian Party, EFF, VTW, etc., use this open-posting feature, is this also to be called "spamming"? Why is an alert to dozens of mailing lists and newsgroups not spam, while "Buy Wheaties" _is_ spam? The answer is that spam is in the eye of the beholder, and the law should not attempt to decide which "unrequested messages" are OK and which are not.) Some suggestions: -- if people want a closed list, use a version of list software that only allows members to post -- if people want "levels" of expertise involved, a la "29th Level Cypherpunk," this is not the place and time to try to implement this -- use filters, e.g., procmail, Eudora, whatever -- don't refer to unwanted posts as "spam," as this invites talk of applying laws about spam -- as always, use technology and related tools (filters, reputations) whenever possible instead of laws and the threat of laws The sooner we move to a system where people make positive decisions about which messages to accept and which not to, the better. This is a technological effort--seeking to influence the direction mail takes--worthy of some serious thinking, in my view. --Tim May We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1,257,787-1 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Re: Gaining trust in OCO crypto code
by frantz＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I agree with Norm's points. At 6:59 PM 9/16/96 -0700, Norman Hardy wrote: >At 3:06 PM 9/12/96, Bill Frantz wrote: >.... >>(2) Key generation. There are published ways to encode an RSA secret key >>in the corresponding RSA public key. A key generation algorithm which only >>uses 32 bits of the random number would be hard to detect, but easy to >>break by one who knew its secret. You have to be able to examine in detail >>how keys are generated. > >Actually if you generate 100,000 RSA keys with the algorithm the birthday >effect says that >you will have some collisions. Of course even 100,000 key generations takes >a long time. This statement was not as clear as I wish I had been. The trap door in RSA key generation is sufficient to require careful examination of the source for any RSA key (unless you can take the out Norm suggests as): >If random number generation is specified not to be integral to RSA key >generation, then two or more untrusted programs, from mutually hostile >sources, can generate your RSA key if they yield the same output from the >same input. In paranoia situations I would rather trust my keyboard random >than an algorithm chosen by my enemy. When I started discussing using only 32 bits of the random number, I was thinking of random session keys such as PGP generates for its IDEA cypher. I agree you could detect a small number bits being used to generate these keys by a birthday attack. However, most systems make sure these keys are never revealed outside the system (to preserve the secrecy of the messages). It is not easy to do a birthday audit of e.g. PGP session keys. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz | "Cave softly, cave safely, | Periwinkle -- Consulting (408)356-8506 | and cave with duct tape." | 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz(a)netcom.com | - Marianne Russo | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA

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Re: unimbibe cypherpunks@toad.com
by Alan Olsen 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 05:37 PM 9/19/96 -0700, you wrote: >I tried "unscrive," "unsuscrive," and "unscribe," and even "unsuckscribe," >so now I'm trying "unimbibe." Try sending mail to: drummajor(a)toad.com with uncircumcise cypherpunks in the body of the message. --- | "Remember: You can't have BSDM without BSD." - alan(a)ctrl-alt-del.com | |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: | | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man | |`finger -l alano(a)teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key | behind the keyboard.| | http://www.teleport.com/~alano/ | alano(a)teleport.com |

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Re: 56 kbps modems
by Remo Pini 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com Date: Tue Sep 17 08:09:26 1996 > > > > On Mon, 16 Sep 1996, Jay Gairson wrote: > > > Speaking of ISDN, how many people, can afford to have a personal ISDN > > line in there house? And then afford to connect to something/someone > > else on a next to permanent basis monthly? > > No problem here. My ISDN bill is a small fraction of my regular phone > bill. > In Switzerland you pay 25 CHF/month for a normal phoneline and 50 CHF/month for an ISDN line (but you get two channels), so basically here it doesn't matter, which technologie you choose. (BTW, usage charge - by the seconds - is the same for both) :) Remo Pini - ------< fate favors the prepared mind >------ Remo Pini rp(a)rpini.com PGP: http://www.rpini.com/crypto/crypto.html - ----< words are what reality is made of >---- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBMj5AlxFhy5sz+bTpAQF2KQgAgzAfEFb/NDW+J1Ub77CsOhCA578hiGFJ +0i2/yQApQFh4nztiAZoa2VeRlJV6TFcueF4wrGLmsZzw1j+jgo6SvW4ZRqZzfjC Ob+1wF2SKskEWKoRkAz/+u+RcEAGiQObgTu4VbM59LSYMfX/oba9OurwClhqhg0y /twMQ1BLUbFLqhZrruLO4rM1H2px+2FhWd6CP2jwEkiC/ghLPzGFPwcMoS1nSAfQ PGCVbajLaLJalD31FjFT1Z48sA+waBkdCISe8DTx2LQfKq+WK2A1CRyNOlNZUZdj ReaFBvciSTc8Eq01RmFZFOwoPvw7uxi8VpqE/xEBvq6v6UxrBF8xPQ== =BEhi -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: 56 kbps modems
by Remo Pini 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: erp(a)digiforest.com, cypherpunks(a)toad.com Date: Tue Sep 17 08:20:07 1996 Argh, criticism!!!!! :-0 > > 3. NO transmission over a standard phoneline can have more than 3100 > > baud, because the frequency of anything transmitted over that line is > > band limited to 300hz - 3400hz. (If you have ISDN it's not relevant > > anyway, since you are fixed with 8000hz or 64000 bps->in europe :), > > 56000 bps in usa) > > Personally, by saying that no transmission on a standard phoneline can > have more than 3100 baud, is a statement saying that technology and > science, shall never advance, to a point where things are possible. > If you remember right, just 10 or so years ago, we stated that 2400 baud > was the highest possible baud, and we would never go over. My modem, > running on a standard phone line, is a 28.8 USRobotics modem, with > the software, and hardware upgrades to a 3400 baud, I get on an average > day anywhere from 3500 to 3600 baud for send/receive. On a bad day, I > only get 3100 to 3200. SO I would say, that my phone lines, are cleaner > than most eh? And Yes, I am in the US. > Speaking of ISDN, how many people, can afford to have a personal ISDN > line in there house? And then afford to connect to something/someone > else on a next to permanent basis monthly? Well, if your modems says to "hell with the switch", you can do a lot of things with frequencies. And since the filters in the switch are not that accurate, you *might* get away with 3400 hz, which I doubt. Now if your phonecompany for what reason ever supports more bandwidth, thats good for you, but try to get your 3600 baud = 3600 hz modem to be accepted by the FCC will pose a problem, since it states in the regulations, that a modem has to stick to the 300-3400 hz band limits. > > 4. Most modern transmission schemes work with multiple bits per baud. > > I.e. you transmit 10 bits in one baud if you have a 31000 bps modem. > > the only limitation in transmission speed is the amount of binary > > values you can pack into one baud. that on the other hand is limited by > > the S/N (signal to noise) ratio of your line. If you have a noise of > > 0.9%, you can't use more than 100 steps or you have ambiguous signals. > > since people talk about 56000 bps modems (we tried 34000 modems here > > and they couldn't produce more than 28800 on a very good connection) > > that would mean, that you have to transmit 18 bits = 262144 (!) > > distinguishable signal forms per baud. > What about new ways of splitting the steps and baud more so that it > shows less at a higher level.... Just a question.. Ahh well, I'm > getting a page so I shall finish this now... Answer appreciated.. Huh? - ------< fate favors the prepared mind >------ Remo Pini rp(a)rpini.com PGP: http://www.rpini.com/crypto/crypto.html - ----< words are what reality is made of >---- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBMj5DGBFhy5sz+bTpAQFQtwf/diE965nL6MCKX4ikXDyda9hq4a4yGQmV dxYHxD7ADCu32j+InC0FSCevO9Cjn5SoUhrHxsXHj/ZVaBEXRtJLX9g771FciBAz dqq1kKVVoFOJZGUCLUoHSD56tAU2t8pwXHu0QdnJWSpTLj9BausXGGcLH8PEJlAG 5bi3WP4M95Np/8nXUbR/GHlHiVLULRzDCgRLgVfDYe5NHgft69wXB5S3PoD/QUul ranoj1+4xk92M9SarPzcG8/gboR1EFVxgRdgLIi0zeyO+D0Ler648Btf6BgMdaSd Cr+9mzn/KXmrxHS4t6IPt+ZmZiUhzZHCcuxKrkb1JDz7pP6czhytyA== =0WaE -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Spam blacklist project
by craigw＠dg.ce.com.au 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

But all governments are so GOOD and wholesome...how could they EVER do anything that their ppl did not like 100% ;) > Your faith in big government, despite seemingly every bit of evidence > possible to the contrary, astounds me sometimes. Churches, Mosques, etc. > struggle mightily for this kind of thought pattern in believers, yet it > comes to you naturally, in secular life. Truly a marvel, and on _this_ list, > of all places. It has kept me from killfiling you, but I must occasionally > express my awe at the power of faith to literally move mountains. There is a > "regulation" (law) against [murder, selling/growing reefer, selling sexual > services, assault, you name it] yet you'd never deny that these behaviors > still exist, would you? Somehow, though, you still seem to manage to think > that spamming slimeballs will just disappear with more regulations. It's > astonishing. > ,'~``. \|/ ,'``~. (-o=o-) (@ @) ,(-o=o-), +--.oooO--(_)--Ooo-----oOO-(_)-OOo-------oooO--(_)--Oooo.------+ | | | Soon, we may all be staring at our computers, wondering | | whether they're staring back. | | | | [Network Admin For WPA Business Products. aka doshai >;-) ] | | .oooO http://pip.com.au/~doshai/ Oooo. | | ( ) Oooo. .oooO ( ) | +-----\ (----( )-------oooO-Oooo--------( )--- ) /---------+ \_) ) / \ ( (_/ (_/ \_) Key fingerprint = 2D F4 54 BB B4 EA F1 E7 B6 DE 48 92 FC 8D FF 49 Send a message with the subject "send pgp-key" for a copy of my key. (if I want to give it to you)

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Bernstein hearing reminder: THIS Friday 11:45AM, SF Federal Building
by John Gilmore 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

When: Friday, September 20, 1996, 11:45AM (hearing starts at Noon) Where: Federal Building, 450 Golden Gate Avenue, San Francisco; Judge Marilyn Hall Patel's courtroom upstairs. (two blocks east of Van Ness Avenue and Golden Gate Avenue, in the Civic Center neighborhood) What: Dan Bernstein's case to declare the export controls unconstitutional will hold a hearing in which the judge will cross-examine both Dan's lawyers and the government's lawyers, to decide whether to strike down the ITAR and AECA as unconstitutional, throw out the case, or do something in between. Who: me, Dan's lawyers, NSA & State & Justice dept lawyers, the press, and as many cypherpunks and friends-of-encryption as will show up. Don't forget your costume! Formal dress is strongly recommended; you're going to court, remember! Why: To see justice in action; to hang out with your friends; to be there while cryptographic history is made; to get your picture in the Feb '97 Wired Japan. PS: Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 19:30:29 -0700 (PDT) To: gnu(a)toad.com Subject: I've got "go ahead" from my editor From: Rika <rika(a)well.com> ... I have read about "cypherpunk dress up day" and found it a good oppotunity to let Japanese reader of Wired know about law suit and circumustance of encription exporting, as well as actual activity of cypherpunk people. So far, "cypherpunk" is more like just a image/notion than actual living people to Japanese. If I can take a couple of group pictures after the court, I can develop an article for their Feb '97 issue. I hope it is ok with you and lots of lots of people show up this friday! Rika ... +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ $B3^86(J $BMx9a(J $B")(J183 $BEl5~ETI\Cf;TGr;eBf#6(J-13-13 Rika Kasahara POBox 25427, Los Angeles, CA 90025 Voice:+1-310-478-0653 Fax :+1-310-478-0493

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Re: Risk v. Charity (was: RE: Workers Paradise. /Political rant
by craigw＠dg.ce.com.au 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Personally, I paid my way through uni...full fees. I took out a loan when I developed cancer to pay for it (as the health insurance was not finalised for aproval - so they got out of paying). The few months I was unemployed after I left the military because of a confict of interests I earned money by doing whatever I could get (even though I am an engineer I have worked in a petrol station). So why and for what reason sould I have to pay several 10's of thousands each year to support others. I have never taken help from the govenment, I do not feel I should have to pay as well. And what am I paying for...to protect the status quo. I believe that there is more than enough help for ppl available. They just need to get off their butts and work. > > tcmay(a)got.net (Timothy C. May) wrote: > > >"Saving for a rainy day," whether saving, investing, getting an education > > (while others are out partying), preparing, etc., all takes effort and > > commitment. If those who save and prepare are then told they have to pay > > high taxes to support those who partied....well, the predictable effect > > [...] is _more_ people in agony. When you tell people that a compassionate > > society will meet their basic needs, a predictable fraction of them will choose > > not to work hard and prepare themselves. > > > > Two questions, two observations: > > Do you have health insurance? > > Do you have life insurance? > > Yes, so? > Yes, so? Myself also yes,yes > > I have commented on your line of reasoning before and and it still > > seems to me that an important part of the discussion is missed. > > Specifically, that anyone can "save for a rainy day" and still not be > > able to provide for events that can always happen: Heart attack, stroke, > > car accident, pinched nerve that leaves you in excruciating pain and > > unable to work for several years. > > Understand what it is you are saying. > ,'~``. \|/ ,'``~. (-o=o-) (@ @) ,(-o=o-), +--.oooO--(_)--Ooo-----oOO-(_)-OOo-------oooO--(_)--Oooo.------+ | | | Soon, we may all be staring at our computers, wondering | | whether they're staring back. | | | | [Network Admin For WPA Business Products. aka doshai >;-) ] | | .oooO http://pip.com.au/~doshai/ Oooo. | | ( ) Oooo. .oooO ( ) | +-----\ (----( )-------oooO-Oooo--------( )--- ) /---------+ \_) ) / \ ( (_/ (_/ \_) Key fingerprint = 2D F4 54 BB B4 EA F1 E7 B6 DE 48 92 FC 8D FF 49 Send a message with the subject "send pgp-key" for a copy of my key. (if I want to give it to you)

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radikal update 17-9-1996
by tank 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

URL of the main radikal-site has changed: ********************************* * http://www.xs4all.nl/~radikal * ********************************* We need more mirrors to stop Germany censoring the radikal and the internet. As you can see, free speach is not a gift, but something you have to fight for. Join the struggle ! If you got a mirror up and running let it know. Send your url to: tank(a)xs4all.nl *********************************************************************** ** Radikal Mirrors ** ** *********************************************************************** Receive Radikal 154 by email: Send a empty message to radikal(a)xs4all.nl and you receive issue 154 by mail. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Read the radikal by calling the netherlands (25 numbers). All telefonnr. are listed at the end of this mail. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Download the radikal archive: http: http://www.xs4all.nl/~bslash/radikal.tar.gz Radikal-site unix http://www.xs4all.nl/~bslash/radi.zip Radikal-site dos-zip archive ftp: ftp://utopia.hacktic.nl/pub/replay/pub/incoming Radikal 154 in plaintext ASCII http://www.xs4all.nl/~radikal/radi154.tgz Radikal 154 unix http://www.xs4all.nl/~radikal/radi154.zip Radikal 154 dos-zip If you got your mirror up and running let us know +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Special mirror: de.soc.zensur de.org.politik.spd http://www.altavista.digital.com usenet-search for radikal.zip +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Radikal-sites: 1.http://www.xs4all.nl/~radikal 2.http://burn.ucsd.edu/%7Eats/RADIKAL/ Arm the Spirit statement "Radikal Mirror Site At ATS WWW Page" 3.http://www.jca.or.jp/~taratta/mirror/radikal/ 4.http://www.serve.com/~spg/ 5.http://huizen.dds.nl/~radikal 6.http://www.canucksoup.net/radikal/index.html 7.http://www.ecn.org/radikal 8.http://www.well.com/~declan/mirrors/ 9.http://www.connix.com/~harry/radikal/index.htm 10.http://www.ganesa.com/radikal/ 11.http://www.denhaag.org/~radikal 12.http://www.knooppunt.be/~daniel/radikal 13.http://emma.unm.edu/radikal 14.http://www.tacacs.com/radikal/" 15.http://www.dsvenlo.nl/~vvd/radikal/ 16.http://www.why.net/home/static/radi 17.http://users.abcs.com/dockmstr/mirror/radikal/index.htm 18.http://www.xs4all.nl/~jeroenw/radikal/ 19.http://home.ipr.nl/~radikal/ 20.http://www.dreamy.demon.co.uk/occam/ 21.http://www.ibmpcug.co.uk/~irdial/live_free/ 22.http://zero.tolerance.org/radi/index.htm 23.http://www.meaning.com/library/radikal/ 24.http://www.xs4all.nl/~irmed/radikal/ 25.http://www.walli.uwasa.fi/~tviemero/radikal 26.http://www.sko.it/~sfede/radi/index.htm 27.http://www.bart.nl/~sz/index.html 28.http://bellp.med.yale.edu/index.htm 29.http://www.euronet.nl/users/funest/radi/index.htm 30.http://fine.com/~rsr/radikal 31.http://www.lab.net/radikal 32.http://www.charm.net/~gbarren/radikal 33.http://login.datashopper.dk/~pethern/radikal/ 34.http://www.interlaw.com 35.http://hyperreal.com/~rich/radikal/index.html 36.http://www.citinv.it/iniziative/info/radikal/ Phone: Call and login as "new". So first dail the international number +31 (hollands international code) and than one of these numbers. Amsterdam Zoetermeer Maarssen 020 5350535, V.34 079 3611011, V.34 0346 550455, V.34 020 4223422, UUCP 079 3600800, ISDN PPP 0346 553613, ISDN PPP 020 6265060, ZyXEL 079 3630569, ISDN X.75 0346 555285, ISDN X.75 020 4229700, ISDN PPP 020 4206782, ISDN X.75 Hoorn Geleen Leeuwarden 0229 212177, V.34 046 4789478, V.34 058 2157815, V.34 0229 219717, ISDN PPP 046 4230555, ISDN PPP 058 2130910, ISDN PPP Goes Assen 0113 252900, V.34 0592 331531, V.34 0113 270110, ISDN PPP 0592 331278, ISDN PPP Willemstad Deurne 0168 472472, V.34 0493 323344, V.34 0168 476472, ISDN PPP 0493 351566, ISDN PPP

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no internet gambling
by Jüri Kaljundi 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>From todays Baltic News Service newswire (my free translation): According to the ministry of finance of Estonia, they will not give any licences or permission to organize Internet gambling or lotteries in Estonia. The reason given was, that arranging lotteries on the Internet would take the activity outside from Estonia. According to the news, the only Internet gambling licences given out are in Liechtenstein and Ahvenamaa (part of Finland). My question is: how easy it is to get a licence for Internet casino in either Liechtenstein or some off-shore country (Belize, Bahamas etc) ? I believe Belize was one of the first to sign legislation on Internet gambling, does anyone have more information about the costs and requirements? Jüri Kaljundi AS Stallion jk(a)stallion.ee

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