- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

"S1" encryption system (was: this looked like it might be interesting)
by Hal 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I suppose the unstated implication is that this might be Skipjack. I have looked at the program a bit and have a few observations: There is an obvious typo in the "g" function, whose first parameter should be 0 or 1, but which tests it for 0, 1, or 2. This suggests an amateur effort. The coding style in general suggests a lack of familiarity with C (absence of "for" loops, with equivalent "while" loops substituted). The program appears to be based on a hardware-based description of the algorithm, judging from comments and style. The algorithm uses two fixed arrays F and G. Comments indicate that F was designed as four independent arrays F0, F1, F2, and F3. These are suposed to be non-linear. Each takes 8 bits in and 8 bits out. G is two arrays, each 8 bits in and 1 bit out. The comments indicate that it is supposed to be "pseudo-linear". G1 is the odd parity function. G0[i] is 0 0 1 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 repeated over and over. This is unusual because it is period 10 (the second 5 bits are the inverse of the first 5). I don't know whether there would be a more concise algorithmic representation of G0. Key size is 80 bits. The program implements the ability to hold 5 keys at once. Block size is 64 bits. The keys are expanded internally into a large array. I haven't looked at the key scheduling in detail. The encrypt and decrypt block functions have fixed xor's applied to the 64 bits of input and output. This appears to be cryptographically useless (or at least not very useful), similar to the initial permutation in DES. It is curious that xor's are used here rather than a permutation. That may represent an attempt to design the cipher to run well in software. The encryption function itself is a modified Feistel type cipher, with the blocks broken into 8 pieces and xor'd with functions involving F, G, the key and other pieces in a reversable pattern. The loop iterates 32 times but only two of the 8 pieces are changed each iteration so each 8 bit piece actually gets modified only 8 times. The pattern is: piece 6 modified by pieces 4, 5, 2, 3 piece 7 modified by pieces 4, 5, 0, 1 piece 0 modified by pieces 6, 7, 4, 5 piece 1 modified by pieces 6, 7, 2, 3 piece 2 modified by pieces 0, 1, 6, 7 piece 3 modified by pieces 0, 1, 4, 5 piece 4 modified by pieces 2, 3, 0, 1 piece 5 modified by pieces 2, 3, 6, 7 repeated 8 times. Decryption goes in the inverse order as is typical of these ciphers. The key is basically 80 bits, however there is a function S1_create_key which pads it with 16 bits of 0 and then encrypts it with two overlapping encryptions using the all-zeros key. The resulting 96 bit key is then fed as input to S1_load_key which decrypts it and checks for the 0's to ensure validity. I am not much of a cryptanalyst, but from what I understand the overall security of a Feistel-type cipher like this depends a great deal on the structure of the F (and in this case G) boxes. I would not be at all qualified to analyze those. So potentially this may be a strong cipher or it may be weak. The actual implementation does as I remarked show some signs of amateur programming skills. In addition to the points mentioned it is curious that the G arrays are initialized with a list of 256 values rather than taking advantage of the apparent regularities noted. Hal Finney hfinney(a)shell.portal.com

6 6

Re: "S1" encryption system
by Hal 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Correction, I just noticed that the four F functions have 4 bit output not 8 as I wrote. Realize that all this is based on a very cursory examination of the code. BTW I just was starting to look at the key scheduling and I noticed that fullkey is indexed in its 2nd slot by i*2 where i goes from 0 to 31, but is only declared as being 32 in size in that slot. So I think this is another typo, probably the index should be i. This kind of thing does not inspire confidence... Hal

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This summer's special delivery?
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 11:59 PM 8/9/95, Matt Blaze wrote: >Someone sent me (to my bell labs address) a copy of this this afternoon via >an anon server in the netherlands. It looks like others got it as well, and >it appears to have been posted to the cypherpunks list, though it hasn't >yet shown up here from the list (my mail seems to be slow today). Did >anyone else have a copy mailed directly to them? I got a copy mailed to me directly as well. I don't know why he/she/it sent it me, but I got it. I have nothing further to add on this. But recall that it was just about this time last year--just before Crypto--that the "alleged RC4 code" was posted anonymously to the list. Hmmhhh.... --Tim May Special note: My ISP has changed its domain name from "sensemedia.net" to "got.net" (as in "got milk?"), so I have to again ask you all to bear with me and use my new e-mail address, "tcmay(a)got.net". ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net (Got net?) | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero 408-728-0152 | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Corralitos, CA | black markets, collapse of governments. Higher Power: 2^756839 | Public Key: PGP and MailSafe available. "National borders are just speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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IPSEC goes to RFC
by Perry E. Metzger 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

RFCs 1825, 1826, 1827, 1828, and 1829 came out today. These RFCs describe in detail the IPSEC protocol, which is designed to secure the internet from the ground up. IPSEC permits the cryptographic encapsulation of all your IP traffic, which means all your internet communications. IPSEC is now a Proposed Standard. Please read them and help us in the effort to universally deploy this protocol. Still to come will be a key management system. The current notion is to store RSA keys in the DNS -- a proposal to do this made by Eastlake and Kaufman has been accepted by the IETF. Eastlake is now working on a certificate format that will be an alternative to X.509. The keys will be used by a modified version of the STS protocol (a signed Diffie-Hellman exchange) that is being worked on by Phil Karn -- the key management system is to be called "Photuris" and is currently an internet draft. Again, *we need your help*. Cypherpunks write code. Help us make the internet safe for personal privacy by contributing to this effort. Perry

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"S-1" key schedule
by Matt Blaze 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Well, I have to admit I've been staying up late playing with the "S-1" cipher that was posted here earlier. Hal Finney already noted what is clearly a bug in the code; only half the key schedule is ever used, and only in the first 16 of the 32 rounds. Even assuming that that is a typo rather than intentional, "S-1" still appears to suffer from key-related weaknesses. The key expansion function in "S-1" produces a skewed key schedule given uniformly distributed 80 bit input keys. Here's a histogram of the distribution of key schedule bytes produced by all 2^32 ways of generating each byte (each key schedule byte is a function of the F functions applied to four selected input keys bytes). The expected value for each line is 16777216. For just about any conventional block cipher, (e.g., DES) we'd expect this graph to be absolutely flat. Yet here some values are more than 5% away from expected. This behavior appears to be a consequence of the non-uniform distributon of "S-1"'s F output values, which are used to create the expanded key. This does not bode well for "S-1"; it means that some key bytes are applied against the ciphertext slightly more often than others, even when the input key itself is uniformly chosen. (Ditto for the outputs of the F functions themselves, even when their inputs are uniformly distributed, but that's still another story). Still, this may not be fatal; the key schedule is still much larger than the keyspace, so there might not be any easy way for the cryptanalyst to exploit this property to any great advantage. It is possible that the cipher's structure somehow cancels this out in some non-obvious way that manages to provide a flat 2^80 keyspace, but it's hard to see exactly how. My money still says the "TOP SECRET" markings and other clues that suggest that "S-1" has something to do with Skipjack are a hoax. -matt key number val produced #/exptd -- -------- ------- 00 = 16396100 (0.977) *************************************************** 01 = 16153930 (0.963) ************************************************** 02 = 15820450 (0.943) ************************************************* 03 = 16197600 (0.965) ************************************************** 04 = 16142020 (0.962) ************************************************** 05 = 15907790 (0.948) ************************************************* 06 = 16300820 (0.972) ************************************************** 07 = 16471530 (0.982) *************************************************** 08 = 16439770 (0.980) *************************************************** 09 = 16165840 (0.964) ************************************************** 0a = 16126140 (0.961) ************************************************** 0b = 16693850 (0.995) **************************************************** 0c = 16503290 (0.984) *************************************************** 0d = 16221420 (0.967) ************************************************** 0e = 15931610 (0.950) ************************************************* 0f = 16705760 (0.996) **************************************************** 10 = 16933000 (1.009) **************************************************** 11 = 16682900 (0.994) **************************************************** 12 = 16338500 (0.974) *************************************************** 13 = 16728000 (0.997) **************************************************** 14 = 16670600 (0.994) **************************************************** 15 = 16428700 (0.979) *************************************************** 16 = 16834600 (1.003) **************************************************** 17 = 17010900 (1.014) ***************************************************** 18 = 16978100 (1.012) ***************************************************** 19 = 16695200 (0.995) **************************************************** 1a = 16654200 (0.993) **************************************************** 1b = 17240500 (1.028) ***************************************************** 1c = 17043700 (1.016) ***************************************************** 1d = 16752600 (0.999) **************************************************** 1e = 16453300 (0.981) *************************************************** 1f = 17252800 (1.028) ***************************************************** 20 = 16916480 (1.008) **************************************************** 21 = 16666624 (0.993) **************************************************** 22 = 16322560 (0.973) *************************************************** 23 = 16711680 (0.996) **************************************************** 24 = 16654336 (0.993) **************************************************** 25 = 16412672 (0.978) *************************************************** 26 = 16818176 (1.002) **************************************************** 27 = 16994304 (1.013) ***************************************************** 28 = 16961536 (1.011) ***************************************************** 29 = 16678912 (0.994) **************************************************** 2a = 16637952 (0.992) *************************************************** 2b = 17223680 (1.027) ***************************************************** 2c = 17027072 (1.015) ***************************************************** 2d = 16736256 (0.998) **************************************************** 2e = 16437248 (0.980) *************************************************** 2f = 17235968 (1.027) ***************************************************** 30 = 16416750 (0.979) *************************************************** 31 = 16174275 (0.964) ************************************************** 32 = 15840375 (0.944) ************************************************* 33 = 16218000 (0.967) ************************************************** 34 = 16162350 (0.963) ************************************************** 35 = 15927825 (0.949) ************************************************* 36 = 16321350 (0.973) *************************************************** 37 = 16492275 (0.983) *************************************************** 38 = 16460475 (0.981) *************************************************** 39 = 16186200 (0.965) ************************************************** 3a = 16146450 (0.962) ************************************************** 3b = 16714875 (0.996) **************************************************** 3c = 16524075 (0.985) *************************************************** 3d = 16241850 (0.968) ************************************************** 3e = 15951675 (0.951) ************************************************* 3f = 16726800 (0.997) **************************************************** 40 = 16908220 (1.008) **************************************************** 41 = 16658486 (0.993) **************************************************** 42 = 16314590 (0.972) ************************************************** 43 = 16703520 (0.996) **************************************************** 44 = 16646204 (0.992) **************************************************** 45 = 16404658 (0.978) *************************************************** 46 = 16809964 (1.002) **************************************************** 47 = 16986006 (1.012) ***************************************************** 48 = 16953254 (1.010) **************************************************** 49 = 16670768 (0.994) **************************************************** 4a = 16629828 (0.991) *************************************************** 4b = 17215270 (1.026) ***************************************************** 4c = 17018758 (1.014) ***************************************************** 4d = 16728084 (0.997) **************************************************** 4e = 16429222 (0.979) *************************************************** 4f = 17227552 (1.027) ***************************************************** 50 = 17003210 (1.013) ***************************************************** 51 = 16752073 (0.999) **************************************************** 52 = 16406245 (0.978) *************************************************** 53 = 16797360 (1.001) **************************************************** 54 = 16739722 (0.998) **************************************************** 55 = 16496819 (0.983) *************************************************** 56 = 16904402 (1.008) **************************************************** 57 = 17081433 (1.018) ***************************************************** 58 = 17048497 (1.016) ***************************************************** 59 = 16764424 (0.999) **************************************************** 5a = 16723254 (0.997) **************************************************** 5b = 17311985 (1.032) ****************************************************** 5c = 17114369 (1.020) ***************************************************** 5d = 16822062 (1.003) **************************************************** 5e = 16521521 (0.985) *************************************************** 5f = 17324336 (1.033) ****************************************************** 60 = 17147760 (1.022) ***************************************************** 61 = 16894488 (1.007) **************************************************** 62 = 16545720 (0.986) *************************************************** 63 = 16940160 (1.010) **************************************************** 64 = 16882032 (1.006) **************************************************** 65 = 16637064 (0.992) *************************************************** 66 = 17048112 (1.016) ***************************************************** 67 = 17226648 (1.027) ***************************************************** 68 = 17193432 (1.025) ***************************************************** 69 = 16906944 (1.008) **************************************************** 6a = 16865424 (1.005) **************************************************** 6b = 17459160 (1.041) ****************************************************** 6c = 17259864 (1.029) ***************************************************** 6d = 16965072 (1.011) ***************************************************** 6e = 16661976 (0.993) **************************************************** 6f = 17471616 (1.041) ****************************************************** 70 = 16792580 (1.001) **************************************************** 71 = 16544554 (0.986) *************************************************** 72 = 16203010 (0.966) ************************************************** 73 = 16589280 (0.989) *************************************************** 74 = 16532356 (0.985) *************************************************** 75 = 16292462 (0.971) ************************************************** 76 = 16694996 (0.995) **************************************************** 77 = 16869834 (1.006) **************************************************** 78 = 16837306 (1.004) **************************************************** 79 = 16556752 (0.987) *************************************************** 7a = 16516092 (0.984) *************************************************** 7b = 17097530 (1.019) ***************************************************** 7c = 16902362 (1.007) **************************************************** 7d = 16613676 (0.990) *************************************************** 7e = 16316858 (0.973) ************************************************** 7f = 17109728 (1.020) ***************************************************** 80 = 16920610 (1.009) **************************************************** 81 = 16670693 (0.994) **************************************************** 82 = 16326545 (0.973) *************************************************** 83 = 16715760 (0.996) **************************************************** 84 = 16658402 (0.993) **************************************************** 85 = 16416679 (0.979) *************************************************** 86 = 16822282 (1.003) **************************************************** 87 = 16998453 (1.013) ***************************************************** 88 = 16965677 (1.011) ***************************************************** 89 = 16682984 (0.994) **************************************************** 8a = 16642014 (0.992) **************************************************** 8b = 17227885 (1.027) ***************************************************** 8c = 17031229 (1.015) ***************************************************** 8d = 16740342 (0.998) **************************************************** 8e = 16441261 (0.980) *************************************************** 8f = 17240176 (1.028) ***************************************************** 90 = 17416210 (1.038) ****************************************************** 91 = 17158973 (1.023) ***************************************************** 92 = 16804745 (1.002) **************************************************** 93 = 17205360 (1.026) ***************************************************** 94 = 17146322 (1.022) ***************************************************** 95 = 16897519 (1.007) **************************************************** 96 = 17315002 (1.032) ****************************************************** 97 = 17496333 (1.043) ****************************************************** 98 = 17462597 (1.041) ****************************************************** 99 = 17171624 (1.024) ***************************************************** 9a = 17129454 (1.021) ***************************************************** 9b = 17732485 (1.057) ******************************************************* 9c = 17530069 (1.045) ****************************************************** 9d = 17230662 (1.027) ***************************************************** 9e = 16922821 (1.009) **************************************************** 9f = 17745136 (1.058) ******************************************************* a0 = 17581410 (1.048) ****************************************************** a1 = 17321733 (1.032) ****************************************************** a2 = 16964145 (1.011) ***************************************************** a3 = 17368560 (1.035) ****************************************************** a4 = 17308962 (1.032) ****************************************************** a5 = 17057799 (1.017) ***************************************************** a6 = 17479242 (1.042) ****************************************************** a7 = 17662293 (1.053) ******************************************************* a8 = 17628237 (1.051) ******************************************************* a9 = 17334504 (1.033) ****************************************************** aa = 17291934 (1.031) ****************************************************** ab = 17900685 (1.067) ******************************************************* ac = 17696349 (1.055) ******************************************************* ad = 17394102 (1.037) ****************************************************** ae = 17083341 (1.018) ***************************************************** af = 17913456 (1.068) ******************************************************* b0 = 17048640 (1.016) ***************************************************** b1 = 16796832 (1.001) **************************************************** b2 = 16450080 (0.981) *************************************************** b3 = 16842240 (1.004) **************************************************** b4 = 16784448 (1.000) **************************************************** b5 = 16540896 (0.986) *************************************************** b6 = 16949568 (1.010) **************************************************** b7 = 17127072 (1.021) ***************************************************** b8 = 17094048 (1.019) ***************************************************** b9 = 16809216 (1.002) **************************************************** ba = 16767936 (0.999) **************************************************** bb = 17358240 (1.035) ****************************************************** bc = 17160096 (1.023) ***************************************************** bd = 16867008 (1.005) **************************************************** be = 16565664 (0.987) *************************************************** bf = 17370624 (1.035) ****************************************************** c0 = 16705850 (0.996) **************************************************** c1 = 16459105 (0.981) *************************************************** c2 = 16119325 (0.961) ************************************************** c3 = 16503600 (0.984) *************************************************** c4 = 16446970 (0.980) *************************************************** c5 = 16208315 (0.966) ************************************************** c6 = 16608770 (0.990) *************************************************** c7 = 16782705 (1.000) **************************************************** c8 = 16750345 (0.998) **************************************************** c9 = 16471240 (0.982) *************************************************** ca = 16430790 (0.979) *************************************************** cb = 17009225 (1.014) ***************************************************** cc = 16815065 (1.002) **************************************************** cd = 16527870 (0.985) *************************************************** ce = 16232585 (0.968) ************************************************** cf = 17021360 (1.015) ***************************************************** d0 = 16949520 (1.010) **************************************************** d1 = 16699176 (0.995) **************************************************** d2 = 16354440 (0.975) *************************************************** d3 = 16744320 (0.998) **************************************************** d4 = 16686864 (0.995) **************************************************** d5 = 16444728 (0.980) *************************************************** d6 = 16851024 (1.004) **************************************************** d7 = 17027496 (1.015) ***************************************************** d8 = 16994664 (1.013) ***************************************************** d9 = 16711488 (0.996) **************************************************** da = 16670448 (0.994) **************************************************** db = 17257320 (1.029) ***************************************************** dc = 17060328 (1.017) ***************************************************** dd = 16768944 (1.000) **************************************************** de = 16469352 (0.982) *************************************************** df = 17269632 (1.029) ***************************************************** e0 = 16953650 (1.011) **************************************************** e1 = 16703245 (0.996) **************************************************** e2 = 16358425 (0.975) *************************************************** e3 = 16748400 (0.998) **************************************************** e4 = 16690930 (0.995) **************************************************** e5 = 16448735 (0.980) *************************************************** e6 = 16855130 (1.005) **************************************************** e7 = 17031645 (1.015) ***************************************************** e8 = 16998805 (1.013) ***************************************************** e9 = 16715560 (0.996) **************************************************** ea = 16674510 (0.994) **************************************************** eb = 17261525 (1.029) ***************************************************** ec = 17064485 (1.017) ***************************************************** ed = 16773030 (1.000) **************************************************** ee = 16473365 (0.982) *************************************************** ef = 17273840 (1.030) ***************************************************** f0 = 16573690 (0.988) *************************************************** f1 = 16328897 (0.973) *************************************************** f2 = 15991805 (0.953) ************************************************* f3 = 16373040 (0.976) *************************************************** f4 = 16316858 (0.973) ************************************************** f5 = 16080091 (0.958) ************************************************** f6 = 16477378 (0.982) *************************************************** f7 = 16649937 (0.992) **************************************************** f8 = 16617833 (0.991) *************************************************** f9 = 16340936 (0.974) *************************************************** fa = 16300806 (0.972) ************************************************** fb = 16874665 (1.006) **************************************************** fc = 16682041 (0.994) **************************************************** fd = 16397118 (0.977) *************************************************** fe = 16104169 (0.960) ************************************************** ff = 16886704 (1.007) ****************************************************

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Hail South Florida Cypherpunks!!
by liberty＠gate.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- [All the rest of ye can delete this message now, with my sincere apologies, and return to the regularly scheduled flamewar. <Regarding just how hard it is to actually hit the "delete" key when a message ye don't want appears, as opposed to posting yet *another* message.>] HEAR YE, HEAR YE, the inaugural meeting of South Florida's Brew Crew O' (Cypherpunks), is scheduled for Saturday, August 12 at Ye Olde Riverwalk Brewery in Ft. Lauderdale. Good ale, good discussion and good friends will hopefully be a highlight of the fest. And should the invited Dark Knights (cops) arrive [we're expecting one] a lively jousting contest will ensue (the loser will be ceremoniously placed in the C-punk stockade and force fed Clipper Chips). Should Sen. Exon, the evil Sheriff of Congressham (or was that Congresspork?) attend our noble round table, we will have a hanging in the town square, preceded, of course by the traditional legume toss. [Beano, anyone?] There will be a short speech by my friend Ginger <Phiberflea(a)aol.com> who is fresh back from Las Vegas-shire and the DefCon III convention. She will describe what it's like to be one of the few wenches at a conference full of male hackers [guys, it looks like we're all in for some trouble!]... If one of ye brings a PGP-infested notebook, there may even be a keysigning! We can even discuss the recent "spooky" psoting to the list. Anyway, _everyone_ is invited! Peasants, squires, lords and ladies, jesters, knights, and royalty, a chair and ale await ye all. Feel free to invite any south-Floridians not on the list. No need to RSVP, (ye olde e-mail box is full-to-overflowing already), just show up around 5:00 and have fun! The Riverwalk Brewery isn't exactly Sir May's house, but here are the stats: Riverwalk Brewery 111 SW 2nd Avenue Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33301 (305) 764-8448 >From Miamishire: I-95 North to Broward Blvd., Take Broward East (right) 2 miles to Moffat (just before RR tracks), Turn Right, second building on the right. >From Palm Beachshire: I-95 South to Broward Blvd., Take Broward East (left) 2 miles to Moffat (just before RR tracks), Turn Right, second building on the right. Specialty Beers: - Marlin's Light, Blackbeard's Gold, and Riverwalk Red. Dark Specials: - Offered on rotation: Panther's Porter, Swampwater Stout, Black Marlin Oatmeal Stout, Ramsey's Imperial Stout. Brewmaster's Special - changes monthly Pints $3.00 / 10oz Mugs $2.50 Happy Hour 4-7pm Pints $2.50 Appetizers Chicken Fingers, Wings, Spinach Dip, Calamari, [Mmmm...tentacles! :) ] Italian Baked Ziti, Fried Mozzarella, Potato Skins. ($4.50-$5.95) Soups & Salads Onion Soup, "Geek"/Caesar/Chef Salad, Souvlaki, Chicken Kebab ($3.50-$7.50) Dinner (Sorry, Dragon meat is unavailable.) New York Strip Steak, Grilled Twin Pork Chops, Shish Kebab, Chicken Marsala, "Shaslik of Steer" ??? (whatever *that* is), Grilled Sirloin Beef Tips, Grilled/Kebab Swordfish, Grilled Mahi-Mahi [dolphin], Cajun Chicken Fettucini ($10.95-15.95) Sandwiches & Burgers Burger/Cheeseburger, Chicken/Mahi Mahi [dolphin] Sandwiches ($5.95-$6.95) Dinners served 'till 11:00pm, Sandwiches served 'till 11:30pm, Bar closes at 1:00am., party will [probably] end before that. Ready your mounts and make haste! Ging and I will arrive ~5:00pm to partake of happy hour and fight back any invading hordes for a table. One of us (Ginger) may even be wearing a "munition," so watch out. I will wear my red "Hillary" headband. Hope to see you there! :) Ging. & Jim. JMR - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Freedom isn't Freeh iQCVAwUBMCmKv21lp8bpvW01AQH0BAQAgZNgdkA/6zdMeHXdD1djYN2/yuw8th53 cftYhVxvdA65qMSAlgZPR2NN+2RC16LhAvLS3E3g2OuSRIpbI/V1OcvpcMG1/JvB HTs1mxhsQrF8YwrUMhe4gOxftXryeR7lalmMBhfka2kpmeZNN2Cev52WQgr8ahWQ NZ20pnfDhLY= =dAdE - -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Regards, Jim Ray "The people will again respect the law when the law again respects the will of the people." Jim Ray, Campaign '92 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ PGP key Fingerprint 51 5D A2 C3 92 2C 56 BE 53 2D 9C A1 B3 50 C9 C8 Key id. # E9BD6D35 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Support the Phil Zimmermann (Author of PGP) Legal Defense Fund! email: zldf(a)clark.net or visit http://www.netresponse.com/zldf ________________________________________________________________________ - --- [This message has been signed by an auto-signing service. A valid signature means only that it has been received at the address corresponding to the signature and forwarded.] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Gratis auto-signing service iQBFAwUBMCmPtioZzwIn1bdtAQFmTQF/SHKgZ/eKjEvBY4HBkDPKIMqpbiCP1agy aFuGk5ly6YePLPHo2bEn0KWIvrqSrd9j =f+JI -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: "S1" encryption system (was: this looked like it might
by Peter Trei 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> On a fair number of occassions I have been told that federal type folks > have made statements to the effect that there is no such thing as a "TOP > SECRET" classification of US government docs. Since really secret things > tend to get neither confirmed nor denied, I am inclined to believe this. > Thus SECRET is the top classification in today's government/military. If > anybody knows otherwise I would be interested in the information. > JWS Well, I held an active SECRET clearance until last November. This is how I remember it. There are three basic levels of classification - Confidential, Secret, and Top Secret. There are many sub-categories, such as FOUO (For Official Use Only), NOFORN (no foreigners), COMSEC (Communications Security) etc. Within TS, data may be placed in 'compartments', the names of which may themselves be classified, and separate clearance is needed for each compartment. Orthoganal to that is the existance of three separate agencies which provide clearance - the Department of Energy, the Department of Defense, and the NSA. If you had a DoD clearance, that did not cut much ice with the spooks - you needed to have a separate investigation to their standards (though the actual groundpounding and investigation was done by the same organization for all three). Finally, there was 'need to know'. It didn't matter if you had a Tippy Toppest Secret clearance, signed by the directors of the NRO, NSA, and DoE; if there was a piece of classified information which was not relevant to your work, you didn't get it. (One of the problems with the system is that this leads to a lot of duplicated effort). While I did not get to see Top Secret data (and in fact, avoided classified projects whenever possible), TS was a very real classification level at least until late last year. The only explanation I can think of for your claim above is that most TS data is not simply 'TS'; it usually has various endorsments, such as which compartment it's in. Peter Trei

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Why DES in IPSEC ESP?
by Andy Brown 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I suppose this is really addressed at Perry: Why was (single) DES chosen as the algorithm for the ESP part of IPSEC? If someone's IP traffic is being monitored and collected offline by some agency then they're going to get about a couple of hours of security while the special purpose key search hardware kicks into action. I know other algorithms can optionally be used, but surely it would have been better to have a second, stronger algorithm specified mandatory as well. - Andy +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Andrew Brown Internet <asb(a)nexor.co.uk> Telephone +44 115 952 0585 | | PGP (2048/9611055D): 69 AA EF 72 80 7A 63 3A C0 1F 9F 66 64 02 4C 88 | +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+

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ciphergroupies
by rah＠shipwright.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

As one of ciphergroupies (call a spade a spade, the man said, and, frankly, I don't write code, much less cryto-code) I agree with Perry. While I understand that crypto isn't the only thing discussed on this list, it used be quite apparent to anyone who signed on to this list that strong crypto and its consequences was the the focus of the group. Some days it's very apparent that that is not the focus. My mail.torrent skills are pretty well advanced these days, because I sit on lots of mail groups. The first high volume one was cypherpunks, where I got my bones in such matters, and I've gotten pretty adept at thrashing the noise out of the way. However, it does seem that, like Tim said a while ago, we're getting a lot of forwards from other groups, which dilute the content here pretty significantly. I've done this myself. A lot. Not as much as I used to, but it still happens: I just forwarded here an announcement for a digital commerce conference in Texas, for instance. So, I have a few suggestions. First, we might try to be more considerate of the other's wetware, while developing our own, and try to limit our postings to this net to original contributions where possible, even if it's just a summary of something you've read. Write it in your own words, in other words ;-). I'm not saying rewrite instead of forward if the message is extremely crypto (or consequent) relevant, we get action messages from EPIC, for instance, which are mostly relevant (opinions of the efficacy of EPIC aside, of course). Second, if you have something which people here might be interested in, and it's vaguely tangental, post a pointer. The classic case here is someone, who shall remain nameless for reasons you'll see in a moment, who's brilliantly cryptic (!) pointers to his droid-fed article stash have been a very useful and pleasantly salient feature of the landscape here for more than a year now. You can point to an FTP file, a web page, have people ask for it in an e-mail reply from you, and if it's something er, professionally written, and want it handled er, gingerly, you can probably contact the above mentioned droid-master for his help in distributing your find. I just sent him such an article on dark fiber / frequency multiplexing which he pointed the group to within the last week. Not that you should choke the droid factory, mind you, but it can be done in a special circumstance. Perry seems pretty burned up, and he's burned up for the right reasons, not the least of which is that he's been busting his butt in a project which will encrypt the net at the very core: the TCP/IP layer itself. This is very very important, and people should pay attention to it, and help however they can. (It's also likely to make Perry insufferable -- deservedly -- pretty soon ;-)). Like everyone else, he subscribes to this group to learn more about crypto, and he's finding the crypto content dwindling, the "S1" discussion notwithstanding, and as someone who's invested a lot of time, energy, and emotions in this group, he doesn't sound happy about it. This is also compounded by the fact that while Perry is one of my favorite people here, Perry is also a grouch. I usually laugh when he goes over the top about something, because his polemics are some of the best I've ever seen. That doesn't make it any better if you're on the receiving end of such invective, and he's pissed off people who agree with him most of the rest of the time as a result. He's usually right, however, and he's a grownup, so I don't think he's going to change his tone anytime soon, and I've just learned to ignore his more inflamitory remarks as a cost of doing business with his not inconsiderable talents. That goes for several people around here, by the way, and it's a shame when they don't play well with others, but, like Perry, they're grownups. Another cost of doing business. So, in summary, point instead of forward where possible, particularly if it's not explicitly crypto or crypto consequent; a good immediate way to help the cause of crypto on the net is to bone up on this IPSP stuff and see what you can do to help, because it's very important; and Perry and other people here are grouches and can't seem to play nice with each other on occasion (So, what else is new? ;-)). Cheers, Bob Hettinga ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Shipwright Development Corporation, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA (617) 323-7923 "Reality is not optional." --Thomas Sowell >>>>Phree Phil: Email: zldf(a)clark.net http://www.netresponse.com/zldf <<<<<

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PGP Tools on Linux
by Rev. Mark Grant 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Did anyone ever get PGP Tools working on Linux ? I can compile it, but it has a marked tendency to get SEGVs when destroying fifos... Mark

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