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Re: Workers, Public Schools, Tradesmen, and Justice
by Adamsc＠io-online.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Fri, 27 Sep 1996 13:01:13 -0800, Timothy C. May wrote: >My conclusion is simple: Tell people if they don't work, they won't eat. If >they do something others are willing to give them money to do, they won't >get money. They won't get "entitlements" from the government (= taxpayers, >= those who are working, = me and thee). Tell them that a college education >should only be pursued if one has a "calling" to be an engineer, a >programmer (and probably not even that, judging by what I see), a doctor, a I've noticed that many places are concerned more with things like creativity, adapability, drive, etc when hiring a CS grad. I've found that having a resume that shows these kind of traits well overcame the lack of a degree (I'm working on that). There was a thread about this in comp.lang.cobol awhile back. >lawyer (on second thought, don't ever suggest they become lawyers), and so >on. The old way was that your HS provided what the mythical average person needed to go about life. College was for the more "complex" careers. >And make it easier to hire people, instead of harder. (And if one hires a >maid, and the maid steals, cut off her hand. We've lost sight of justice, >and people think that ripping off the rich is their kind of justice. This >needs to change.) You don't even need to be that harsh. Chain-gang work to pay off stolen property would be more effective, if for no reason other than that you'd get your money (or property) back. >Psychologists and similar psychobabblers call it "tough love." If one >always "enables" an addict, a layabout, a shiftless worker, with excuses >and handouts, the behavior does not change. To save a person, sometimes >harshness is needed. >This is why crypto anarchy's starving of the tax system is good. It may >"kill" some number of people, as nearly any new idea does, but ultimately >it will put things back on track. And you have to look at it from another point of view: If it would ameliorate the problems in the future for the majority of the population, it'd be worth a bit of discomfort now. # Chris Adams <adamsc(a)io-online.com> | http://www.io-online.com/adamsc/adamsc.htp # <cadams(a)acucobol.com> | send mail with subject "send PGPKEY" "That's our advantage at Microsoft; we set the standards and we can change them." --- Karen Hargrove, Microsoft (quoted in the Feb 1993 Unix Review editorial)

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Re: Public Schools
by Adamsc＠io-online.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Fri, 27 Sep 1996 22:36:57 -0800, Timothy C. May wrote: >> a very unusual situation --but I live in rural southern utah >> where the regional middle school of 1200 can support 4 bands, the >> top 2 being very impressive, and provide full AP classes, and ACT >Wow! Utah is teaching AP? Is Jim Bell being brought in as a Special Lecturer? >(I knew Idaho has special Militia classes, but to hear that Utah is now >teaching Assassination Politics is pretty impressive.) Now, ignoring the humorous parts, wouldn't that be a scary thought? Pro-AP high school students? I could just imagine the death toll rising as the "popular" students are knocked off by jealous rivals, as the dumped [boy/girl]friend gets even, etc. It'd be hard for any non-homeschooled student to live to 18. # Chris Adams <adamsc(a)io-online.com> | http://www.io-online.com/adamsc/adamsc.htp # <cadams(a)acucobol.com> | send mail with subject "send PGPKEY" "That's our advantage at Microsoft; we set the standards and we can change them." --- Karen Hargrove, Microsoft (quoted in the Feb 1993 Unix Review editorial)

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Re: Public Schools
by Adamsc＠io-online.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Fri, 27 Sep 1996 22:36:57 -0800, Timothy C. May wrote: >> a very unusual situation --but I live in rural southern utah >> where the regional middle school of 1200 can support 4 bands, the >> top 2 being very impressive, and provide full AP classes, and ACT >Wow! Utah is teaching AP? Is Jim Bell being brought in as a Special Lecturer? >(I knew Idaho has special Militia classes, but to hear that Utah is now >teaching Assassination Politics is pretty impressive.) Now, ignoring the humorous parts, wouldn't that be a scary thought? Pro-AP high school students? I could just imagine the death toll rising as the "popular" students are knocked off by jealous rivals, as the dumped [boy/girl]friend gets even, etc. It'd be hard for any non-homeschooled student to live to 18. # Chris Adams <adamsc(a)io-online.com> | http://www.io-online.com/adamsc/adamsc.htp # <cadams(a)acucobol.com> | send mail with subject "send PGPKEY" "That's our advantage at Microsoft; we set the standards and we can change them." --- Karen Hargrove, Microsoft (quoted in the Feb 1993 Unix Review editorial)

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Re: Making Remailers Widespread
by Bill Stewart 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 01:06 PM 9/28/96 -0400, "Mark M." <markm(a)voicenet.com> wrote: >Since maintaining a block list is probably one of the most time-consuming tasks >involved with operating a remailer, it would be a Good Thing to add an option >to the remailer cgi program to operate as a "middleman" remailer. This would >only require the remailer operator to add or remove entries from a list of >allowed destinations. The operator wouldn't have to deal with disclaimers and >would only receive complaints from other operators if the remailer is >malfunctioning in some way. That's another good approach, though a second-string objective compared to having full-scale terminal remailers running everywhere. But it's clearly a strong fallback position, and might be easier to get people to adopt and not turn off. It does depend on the availability of a list of working remailers with the correct feature sets, plus adequate distribution of either PGP keys or some S/MIME-related equivalent. One way to do that is to parse Raph's list appropriately (and check signatures on that); another is to have some centralized (sigh) DNS server do a round-robin distribution so that random.remailer.net picks a random known-good remailer to deliver through, perhaps also delivering a PGP key. I'd far prefer a distributed solution, but this does let people volunteer to take heat for a little while and dispose of their remailers if they have to. In particular, it may be useful for winsock remailers that are willing to connect up and be a delivery remailer when they're connected and disconnect when they're unavailable. # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com # <A HREF="http://idiom.com/~wcs"> # You can get PGP software outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto

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Re: Public Schools
by Adamsc＠io-online.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Sat, 28 Sep 1996 20:53:51 -0500 (CDT), snow wrote: >> = . There is a solution. Trade Schools, >> The problem was simple: we have only the now retiring >> toolmakers who make it all possible. engineering graduates will >> not observe the manufacturing floors since it is above their >> dignity to roll of their sleeves. > I knew too many engineering students to believe this. I knew one >(Civil Engineering) who had been a Paramedic, he wanted grease and >dirt on his hands, it may be harder to wash off, but much easier to >sleep off. Nice point, BTW! I think he was engaging in a bit of hyperbole but he still had a point. How many people (in any profession) have had to use what they produce? How many hardware engineers types have had to actually hook up a mission critical network with the router they designed? More likely, how many of you on the list work for someone who has done the same work you're doing? How many of the programmers have to use their own programs on a daily basis? Now, compare with the rest of the world (particularly on that last one). > Prove? I don't know, but it is some pretty solid evidense. Communism >at it's finest. A community of people who work together and take care of >each other voluntarily for the common good. <hee hee> Communism should sound familar to any Jew or Christian. The idea of caring for others in the community is a key part - it's hard to say that you have love for your neighbor if you can't give him a meal while he's out of work (assuming of course you have food yourself - although many in the great depression did anyway). It's when this kind of activity is state-mandated that you have this problem. # Chris Adams <adamsc(a)io-online.com> | http://www.io-online.com/adamsc/adamsc.htp # <cadams(a)acucobol.com> | send mail with subject "send PGPKEY" "That's our advantage at Microsoft; we set the standards and we can change them." --- Karen Hargrove, Microsoft (quoted in the Feb 1993 Unix Review editorial)

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Re: Public Schools
by Adamsc＠io-online.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Sat, 28 Sep 1996 23:23:32 -0400 (EDT), themom wrote: >I have to agree with the final Quote....I am Good in math, chemistry and >computer science I am good in any Logical cource but I have trouble in >places liek " Creative Writing" I take all AP cources and make A's and >B every now and again in english...I have a 3.7 gpa but a LOW sat in the >grammar and english sections, 1100 in all I don't think colleges should >look at the subjects you dont plan to major in...I plan to major in >computer science when I go to college, so I dont think they should look >so much at say english, or biology. I get so frustrated in some of those >classes....BTW I am a Junior in highschool I recently graduated HS and am at the local community college preparing to transfer to a 4-year. Meaningless indicators as follows: 3.9GPA, 1490 SAT (800 Verbal 690 Math - I haven't had a math course since Trig/Precalc in my sophomore year - I was 2 years ahead but moved to 2 districts which didn't even have calculus) - which is up 120 points from my freshman year. Anyway, as far as what colleges look for, they do care about non-major classes but don't, obviously, weight them as highly. As far as the real world (i.e. employment) goes, many places realize you aren't going to learn much in 4 years. They want to see not that you have specific experience but that you know how to think and especially how to teach yourself. If you can show that you can adapt well to market changes you probably won't have to worry about work... # Chris Adams <adamsc(a)io-online.com> | http://www.io-online.com/adamsc/adamsc.htp # <cadams(a)acucobol.com> | send mail with subject "send PGPKEY" "That's our advantage at Microsoft; we set the standards and we can change them." --- Karen Hargrove, Microsoft (quoted in the Feb 1993 Unix Review editorial)

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Re: Making Remailers Widespread [REMAILERS]
by Bill Stewart 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

There have been several good replies - thanks! >> Doing two-way remailers would be better, but that's still a hard problem, >> and I don't want to widely deploy shoddy two-way-remailers. >Unfortunately, one-way remailers have much fewer uses than two-way remailers, >any many of these uses are abusive. I agree, it's a problem; the return address seems to reduce abuse. But one-way remailers can be used to simulate many of the uses of two-way, especially with message-pool return methods (e.g. alt.anonymous.messages.) Doing two-way remailers well is hard - most of the methods around are ok for passive attacks, but may not resist subpoenas, rubber-hose, or crackers. It's especially hard if you want the remailer to be a no-brainer to install and operate, rather than one that requires expert support. Snow's one-shot reply block method is interesting, whether you do a public-key or secret-key approach (if you do public key, you obviously use the public half for the part that stays at the remailer.) It has the real advantage that compromising the remailer doesn't give you the reply information for past or current messages, so you can only compromise one message at a time, which is a big win over the one-key-per-remailer reply blocks. I think I like it. On the other hand, there are a host of potential problems: - Chaining is probably more difficult, at least return-chaining. - Individual True Believer remailer operators would usually resist cooperating with authorities to decrypt the reply block, but ad-hoc remailer operators who are just running a remailer because they haven't turned off the default feature that came with their Web Server will probably reveal the key, especially for Politically Incorrect material (definition depends on their individual politics, of course.) - A web form interface, filled out from a web anonymizer, doesn't give you a useful return address, so spammers can still abuse it. - You have to decide how much persistence to use for the reply block. One-shots are more secure, but aren't helpful for replies to web postings or other multiple-recipient communication, but timeouts have their own problems. >> - A centralized block list (e.g. http://www.remailer.net/block.txt) >> which all of the form-based remailers could load and reference would >> allow non-picky operators not to have to handle it themselves >A single centralized point of failure is bad. Maybe 4 or 5 redundant ones. >A blocking request sent to one will be replicated in the other automatically. Good point. A bit tough to implement in a no-brainer out-of-the-box remailer; you gain a bit by having the block list point to an address that's really a round-robin DNS spinner of some sort, but that still leaves you with centralization. >> [centralized blocking list; handshake with cookies ] >> - this is a bit messier for mailing lists, but we can ignore... > >We can't quite ignore... In the scheme you've just described, someone can >enter a blocking request via a Web page and give a submission request for >some mailing list, and the cookie will be e-mailed to the mailing list. Yeah. This makes it easy to block anonymous remailer input to (say) the cypherpunks mailing list, since _any_ mailing list user can block. Putting a never-block list at the blocking server is a possibility, and would require some announced policy for implementing it. >> - special-case for "postmaster", who may want to block >> all of foo.domain instead of just postmaster(a)foo.domain >> - special-special-case for postmasters of big sites, e.g. aol, netcom >> who we may want to ignore? >I don't think it's a good idea to suport blocking receivers in an entire >domain, like *(a)aol.com. Just say it's not supported. Blocking an entire domain like *(a)aol.com is mostly bad. Blocking an entire domain like *(a)myconsultingfirm.com is fine. Deciding the boundary between the two is, um, amusing :-) I'd probably set it such that ISPs don't get blocked, but non-ISPs do, though that might change if the administrator of aol.com asks five million users to submit individual blocking request. I suppose this means there's a volume question here :-) Having a don't-block list that individuals can subscribe to would help. >> - A sender-blocking list is harder, and may still take human attention >I don't think it's a good idea to support sender blocking at all. There are some spammers you'd like to stop quickly when a Spam Event is happening. There are broken email gateways that may need blocking. There are known abusers you might want stopped. And there are folks like president(a)whitehouse.gov who can be presumed to be forgeries :-) A sender-blocking list administered by the Remailer Cabal* would be a reasonable default for no-brainer remailers, and obviously it should be possible for remailer-admins to override or ignore if they want. >Would the receiver blocking list be available to everyone to view? That >sounds like a violation of privacy. Someone suggested on this list that >(assuming that the entires are addresses that match exactly, not regular >expressions), one can store hashes of addresses. That's worth doing, or at least thinking about seriously. The most interesting regular expressions are *@domain (which you can handle by keeping separate block lists for domains and full addresses (or a merged list that the using remailer checks both)) and *(a)*.domain and user(a)*.domain - e.g. alice(a)mailserver17.big-isp.com, which would successfully deliver mail to alice(a)big-isp.com. Perhaps the system needs to keep two hashes - hash(alice),hash(big-isp.com) and check subsets of the domain name? This is creeping featurism, but it may be the right way to go to set a good precedent. One unfortunate result of only using hashed names and not readable names is that it doesn't help the current remailer operators, since their existing code doesn't work that way. Keeping the file of real names encrypted and only distributing it to the Remailer Cabal seems leaky at best :-) - I'd expect to see it remailed to some public place just on principle. snow wrote: > Off the top of my head, the biggest problem is that you can't send > email to a web site (page). You can easily send it to a procmail program at a web site, though, which can take care of doing the right thing with it. Mark M.'s pointer to netcat is especially relevant for this. > Netcat can be used pretty easily to fetch URLs > (e.g. echo "GET /foobar.html HTTP/1.0" | nc www.webserver.com 80). [*The existence of the Remailer Cabal, viewed by some as a shadowy subversive conspiracy, and by others as Dedicated Public Servants has been repeatedly denied by anyone in a position to know. :-) ] # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com # <A HREF="http://idiom.com/~wcs"> # You can get PGP software outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto

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[AP] Afghanistan
by dlv＠bwalk.dm.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Afghanis publicly hanged their former president, Najibullah [no last name]. Other countries should follow their example. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

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RE: Looking for Qualified Individual/Firm to Contract for Cryptanalysis
by dlv＠bwalk.dm.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

"geeman(a)best.com" <geeman(a)best.com> writes: > Huh? > Since when is (408) in San Diego? San Jose then. San something or other. Silicon Valley. I dislike California enough to view it as one undifferentiated nasty blob. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

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Re: What about making re-mailers automatically chain?
by David E. Smith 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: gcg(a)pb.net, cypherpunks(a)toad.com Date: Sun Sep 29 04:06:38 1996 > Would it be a good idea to have a re-mailer "randomly" decide whether > to > send the mail to the destination or to another re-mailer. If all > re-mailers performed this way, not even the sender would know the path. > The chain could be short sometimes and long others. Granted, there is > a > possibility that every mailer decides to chain instead of sending the > message to the recip, but some clever counter tag could keep the number > of > links to a certain maximum. The "randomness" of this would aid in > traffic > analysis, and of course each mailer that decides to chain the mail > would > encrypt under the next mailer's pub key. Any thoughts? I dunno about that one. Even if the message itself is encrypted, every remailer has to have the address of the final recipient for your plan to work. And if you have cleartext for that message (oops!) then any remailer operator could read it. More traffic is of course a good thing, but I'm just kinda iffy on the concept. dave - ----- David E. Smith, P O Box 324, Cape Girardeau MO USA 63702 dsmith(a)prairienet.org http://www.prairienet.org/~dsmith send mail with subject of "send pgp-key" for my PGP public key "Madness takes its toll . . . please have exact change ready." -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBMk48IzVTwUKWHSsJAQEMugf5AYs0epJSF5ukk5aKvttFXJTHnBzvCtQH aCgxJnnv6bQGQm2fu8Ot7C9UgFNE8NTHJaPHFAkR21/YgwvhUUNhbUrHgz5zZMJ1 oY3jJJgIyLJsyw/+bsHHQc9oDl5VBr+V8xVQBWNR45N0vHx6wWwH5ZjmhBHEfJcg 97CDvygXh6nYJKQplRJ49wYYT29PMg0dONrQSXtYcH5sAhtPEkTzgIKqg0O3MVen tGG11Vl+0ghK2RIwJCoWKMXsqmJexP06+5AdeOLwHsc0QmPkuweKMvWSkF1R0ubR chHFaGlmduT0zNyGB4gIiWl71DYA2EgGSbxOZaGtEa57gJ8tFHVl1g== =PVbP -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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