- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

Re: anonymity and e-cash
by Mark M. 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On 12 Feb 1997 janke(a)unixg.ubc.ca wrote: > It's not too hard: The payee forwards a blinded, non-signed coin > to the payer. The payer has the bank sign this, and then returns > it to the payee who strips out the blinding factor. This is correct except for the fact that the payer also has to apply a blinding factor to the coin, thus making it a "double-blinded" coin. It gets signed by the bank, the payer divides the coin by the blinding factor and sends it to the payee, who then strips out his blinding factor. Ecash coins can also be laundered making the above scheme mostly unnecessary. Since most people will probably not look upon fully anonymous ecash highly, laundering will be a more popular option as it cannot be prevented. Mark -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3 Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBMwJkjyzIPc7jvyFpAQFHcwgAm2TZXg3wVDCtXyHBdq7WX44iA+nIvmHJ GlcXCjyKBEmvRPfkvU/NUnS1cRfjsPh5ZmjNwjBc21lwxjcOLFtu+3Mcd6tNoyYQ 4Abp4lvJLnpGAtAVeSeTAw+7mzwrC0jfWgt2meNbnyp2WxLxg/JA7VGGkS39g4Jm +i3F8H00mFJfmZUGpAiywE7GNobCXeppPJOn/QHA4/FrWJx5hE39qgB7U+AFwYVP PHGy4SSSBeKWciK83DU3Bz6ptygznL7fHW4vOZ8UM5QZjbyiDomVriSuJHw0lKdH r63BhOqYPXgMHgsa28XTlI9AWN5PpaIbvORTHOWv40EF3nGVrWGnMw== =Vpit -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: anonymity and e-cash
by Hal Finney 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: tcmay(a)got.net (Tim May) > You missed a very good talk by Ian Goldberg of UC Berkeley at the Saturday > Cypherpunks meeting at Stanford, where Ian talked for more than an hour on > just this issue. (He also talked for an hour on his crack of the RSA > challenge using 250 workstations...this was also a good talk.) I wish I could have heard that, it sounds good... A simple idea we have discussed for full anonymity uses the idea of exchanging coins at the bank. You make an anonymous connection to the bank, supply some ecash you have received along with some blinded new ecash. The bank verifies that the ecash is good and signs your blinded ecash, sending it back to you. You unblind it and have good, fresh smelling ecash which you can keep, spend, or later deposit in your account. If the merchant performs this exchange operation on-line as soon as he receives ecash, then his anonynmity is protected. The customer is protected too, by the blinding he used when he withdrew the ecash earlier. So both sides remain anonymous. It sounds like Ian may have worked out details of a system where third parties do these exchanges. Banks may be reluctant to allow them for liability reasons, and the market, abhoring the vacuum, will supply intermediaries who perform exchanges for a fee. Resolving the various forms of cheating is the hard part. When Lee asks about a signed receipt, it is hard to understand what is the point if the seller is fully anonymous! A signed receipt from a freshly-minted key is not of much use to anyone. If the participants are using persistant pseudonyms then whatever reputation capital they have can be put on the line when cheating happens, although it still may be hard to tell who cheated whom. Did the customer pass bad cash and claim it was good, or did the merchant deposit good cash and claim it was bad? The same thing could happen every day at the supermarket, of course. A customer insists they paid $20 but got change for a $10. If dozens of customers say the same thing has happened to them, we start to mistrust the market, while if several businesses say this particular customer has made the same claim to them, we blame the customer. Hal

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Re: Recommendation: Creation of "alt.cypherpunks" (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 16:22:28 -0800 > From: "Timothy C. May" <tcmay(a)got.net> > Subject: Re: Recommendation: Creation of "alt.cypherpunks" > I was making the point that _any_ site distributing a list is likely to > face legal pressures not to carry certain items. Read between the lines (or > read the unedited list) the discussion by John Gilmore, Sandy Sandfort, and > the products of Sandy's company, and legal pressures applied, to see what I > mean. This is exactly the reason that my suggestion to anyone setting up a remailer with any sort of controversial content should do it as some sort of outreach of their business. It is too expensive in time, money, and hassles to do for grins and giggles. Jim Choate CyberTects ravage(a)ssz.com

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Re: Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer
by Bill Stewart 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 08:03 PM 2/11/97 -0600, Jim Choate <ravage(a)einstein.ssz.com> wrote: >What is the current future of the Cypherpunks webpage? Will it continue to >be kept up or is it going down as well? If you mean the one on soda.berkeley.edu, the last I checked nobody had updated it in a year or more, but it was still ticking. # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com # You can get PGP outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto/pgp # (If this is a mailing list, please Cc: me on replies. Thanks.)

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Re: Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 18:47 EDT > From: "E. Allen Smith" <EALLENSMITH(a)ocelot.rutgers.edu> > Subject: Re: Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer (fwd) > > Someone with more experience correct me if I'm wrong (I'm just > starting to learn about mailing list management), but isn't saving > at least the first bounce from a given address good in order to check > what address is the one that's actually bouncing? Admittedly, this only > applies to badly-formed bounces. The rest can just have the address > noted. Hmmm, I can see saving the address causing the bounce in some sort of array that is indexed to the majordomo subscription list for a given remailer. It would not cost anything but overhead to save the entire message. I guess my motivation was not that I cared their mailbox was full or it was a invalid address but that I wouldn't be able to deliver at this time. I just don't see any reason that it helps me to know why they can't receive mail only that they can't. > >Want to volunteer? > > Give me some idea of how much programming knowledge, time, etcetera > is required, please, before I can answer. I'd be renting space on some other > computer (e.g., an account on cyberpass.net) to do it in; the only higher-level > programming language (i.e., beyond Applesoft Basic) that I know anything of > is Perl (and I don't know that all that well); and I am somewhat busy with > other stuff. In other words, it depends. Hmmm, not shure how much programming it would take - never done it myself. I think Perl would be an acceptable language. I certainly hope to do the majority of the scripts on the CDR in Perl myself. Perhaps there is somebody who knows the fine points of how INN cache's messages. Redbeard and I had a short discussion about this issue today relating to tracking messages to reduce mail-loops. I will discuss it with him and see what happens. I know exactly what you mean. I have two full-time jobs and hadn't really thought of taking on the cpunks list in any manner. But hey, that is the spice in life... Give me a couple of days to look at the situation and if somebody don't beat me to it I'll post what I find out. Cool? Jim Choate CyberTects ravage(a)ssz.com

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Re: Network of majordomos (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 00:04:44 +0000 > From: paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk > Subject: Re: Network of majordomos > Charter: > > alt.cypherpunks will serve as a discussion forum for the members of > the cypherpunks community. The discussion group previously resided on > a mailing list run at toad.com but due to a difference of opinion > between the majority of active members of the list and the owner of > toad.com, John Gilmore, the list must now relocate onto usenet as a > temporary measure while further measures are put in place to > re-establish a mailing list format. The group has approximately 1500 > members and has been active online for some 5 years. I would like to see that 'temporary measure' changed to one means of distribution and a resource in addition to the remailer chain. I would really like to see this stay in place. Jim Choate CyberTects ravage(a)ssz.com

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Re: NSA Rainbow Series.
by Tobin Fricke 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> 1-800-688-6115 press 0 or just wait for the operator. My second > order consisting of posters and video has not arrived either. It has been > about 6 weeks. The Rainbow order was only 2 weeks. Be prepared that when > you order the Rainbow series you will be getting a large box.Their are > something like 30+ booklets in the series. > There is a set of security posters that include a Santa > poster.And there is also a video with two films on it (Acess Ins and outs > adb Acess Control). How much does all this stuff from the NSA cost? Tobin Fricke (please reply privately, tobin(a)mail.edm.net)

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Transmission of Crypto material and ITAR
by Benjamin Grosman 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dear All, I have a question regarding the impossible enforcement of ITAR/EAR: Naturally I cannot download crypto software from the US, but most of these sites have mirrors in other countries, such as the UK for PGP, and sweden and finland for lots of things. However, with the way that information is routed throughout the internet from these sites, whenever I, in Australia, request packets containing this data from the UK etc, it invariably passes through the US from coast to coast! Therefore, if ITAR/EAR tries to govern that, aren't they really trying to enforce something totally unenforcable? Surely they cannot expect all gateways operated by, say, Sprint and MCI to packet sniff 'n' search? Can anyone tell me what the ruling is with regards to this? Yours Sincerely, Benjamin Grosman ---------------------------------------------------------------- Benjamin Grosman - Programmer, Magna Data Internet Solutions Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur. [Whatever is said in Latin sounds profound.] ----------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: List for discussing many majordomos
by Tim Bray 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

some idiot subscribed me. I know how to use majordomo I know how to read mail headers Majordomo says that the address that it is sending this shit to is not on the list Much & all as I sympathize with the ethos and practice of cypherpunkery, please stop. I have asked in the proper approved way many times, and am still deluged. GET ME OFF THIS LIST! Thank you.

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Re: NSA Rainbow Series.
by Moroni 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Zip,NAda,Nothing. And they have more too. They were backlogged so some people haven't gotten their mail since I last posted about. I called yesterday about my videos and posters and lo and behold I received my two tech manuals today. The people who answer the lines are friendly and usually pretty industrious in getting things out or done. By the way there is supposed to be a department split in the near future so I don't know if manuals will be in one department and posters in another or what. On Wed, 12 Feb 1997, Tobin Fricke wrote: > Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 18:03:35 -0800 > From: Tobin Fricke <tobin(a)edm.net> > To: Moroni <moroni(a)scranton.com>, Genocide <gen2600(a)aracnet.com> > Cc: Cypherpunks Mailing List <cypherpunks(a)toad.com> > Subject: Re: NSA Rainbow Series. > > > 1-800-688-6115 press 0 or just wait for the operator. My second > > order consisting of posters and video has not arrived either. It has been > > about 6 weeks. The Rainbow order was only 2 weeks. Be prepared that when > > you order the Rainbow series you will be getting a large box.Their are > > something like 30+ booklets in the series. > > There is a set of security posters that include a Santa > > poster.And there is also a video with two films on it (Acess Ins and outs > > adb Acess Control). > > How much does all this stuff from the NSA cost? > > Tobin Fricke > (please reply privately, tobin(a)mail.edm.net) > > xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx x No success can compensate for failure in the home. x x x xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

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