- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

Re: [CYBERIA] Liability of phone companies [perhaps off-topic]
by John Young 06 Jul '18

06 Jul '18

L(a)LISTSERV.AOL.COM> Former Director of NSA Bobby Inman said last week at a public session that NSA and the FBI seek very different information, that NSA is happy to get tiny fragments which would be useless to the FBI. He said digital communications was a godsend for NSA compared to analogue, for computers can process great amount of digital data that would remain obscure or unavailable if it was analogue. He emphasized that content of communications was not what NSA sought, instead it wanted data about patterns which would help focus attention on what content needed to be sought by FBI-like means. And huge volumes of pattern-rich data needed to be processed, indeed the larger the volume the better the possibility useful patterns could be determined. A few focussed calls such as the FBI seeks would not be helpful to establish patterns. That is why he said the FBI did not know what to do with the large number of leads provided to it by NSA, that the FBI was correct that the diverse range of tidbits had no meaning to them with the procedures for evidence gathering and prosecution to which they trained and for which they are regulated. Inman said NSA is focussed on warning of threat to the nation not crime-busting, and that for this reason the slightest of data can turn out to be important if it is correlated with other bits and pieces. And this requires capacity for gathering, analyzing, correlating and judgment-making that the military -- with large number of satellites, antennae, computers, algorithms and databanks as well as people to operate the apparatus -- alone has. Nobody else in government or outside it can do this. That a series of DIRNSAs have made this compelling case for the need for a topnotch, near-infallible warning system to a series of presidents and overseers. Inman readily admitted that when he was head of NSA he "did not have the vision to anticipate an attack like 9/11." And that he believed the nation was still at high risk for a repeat. Not many presidents could resist this argument, nor could many corporations should they have been trusted enough to be told what a few in government were told. Inman said the FBI was good at what it does but it was clueless about what NSA does. And NSA is not going to tell the FBI, which leads to nasty blow-ups. What remains is what DoJ is told about NSA's activities. Inman agreed with other panelists that DoJ will write a legal justification for whatever it is told. Sure, a few DoJ lawyers will refuse, but there are many others who will do it. Just as there are differences in DoJ, there are differences in NSA about complying with law governing surveillance, and at the present time newcomers are eager to skirt the law oldtimers, burned by the 1970s investigations, are scared shitless to break. Hayden is not with the old-timers because failure to warn of 9/11 was the greatest NSA failure ever -- CIA on the sidelines but taking the hit. Inman said he would probably do what Hayden did faced with the same circumstances. Inman said in response to an audience challenge that he believed in covert surveillance, "I've saved lives with it, the nation needs it." He emphasized, however, that oversight was essential to preserve democracy, and the FISA needs to be rewritten to fit today's enemy. He said he helped write the original FISA, all done in secret. He was not sure how open the rewrite could be, and he was troubled by the lack of intelligence oversight. ********************************************************************** For Listserv Instructions, see http://www.lawlists.net/cyberia Off-Topic threads: http://www.lawlists.net/mailman/listinfo/cyberia-ot Need more help? Send mail to: Cyberia-L-Request(a)listserv.aol.com ********************************************************************** ------------------------------------- You are subscribed as eugen(a)leitl.org To manage your subscription, go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/?listname=ip Archives at: http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/ ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of signature.asc]

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ADMIN: List returning
by Perry E. Metzger 06 Jul '18

06 Jul '18

The list should be coming back on the air of the next few days. I'll be approving a large batch of recent posts in a few hours, and then most of the rest next Tuesday. (Don't expect new posts to be approved over the weekend, though I'll do it if I can get to it.) Perry PS I'd say "We apologize for the inconvenience." but I don't want to sound overly Sirius Cybernetics about it... --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo(a)metzdowd.com --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)ibuc.com> The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

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[IP] Liability of phone companies [perhaps off-topic]
by David Farber 06 Jul '18

06 Jul '18

Begin forwarded message:

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Re: [CYBERIA] Liability of phone companies [perhaps off-topic]
by John Young 06 Jul '18

06 Jul '18

L(a)LISTSERV.AOL.COM> Former Director of NSA Bobby Inman said last week at a public session that NSA and the FBI seek very different information, that NSA is happy to get tiny fragments which would be useless to the FBI. He said digital communications was a godsend for NSA compared to analogue, for computers can process great amount of digital data that would remain obscure or unavailable if it was analogue. He emphasized that content of communications was not what NSA sought, instead it wanted data about patterns which would help focus attention on what content needed to be sought by FBI-like means. And huge volumes of pattern-rich data needed to be processed, indeed the larger the volume the better the possibility useful patterns could be determined. A few focussed calls such as the FBI seeks would not be helpful to establish patterns. That is why he said the FBI did not know what to do with the large number of leads provided to it by NSA, that the FBI was correct that the diverse range of tidbits had no meaning to them with the procedures for evidence gathering and prosecution to which they trained and for which they are regulated. Inman said NSA is focussed on warning of threat to the nation not crime-busting, and that for this reason the slightest of data can turn out to be important if it is correlated with other bits and pieces. And this requires capacity for gathering, analyzing, correlating and judgment-making that the military -- with large number of satellites, antennae, computers, algorithms and databanks as well as people to operate the apparatus -- alone has. Nobody else in government or outside it can do this. That a series of DIRNSAs have made this compelling case for the need for a topnotch, near-infallible warning system to a series of presidents and overseers. Inman readily admitted that when he was head of NSA he "did not have the vision to anticipate an attack like 9/11." And that he believed the nation was still at high risk for a repeat. Not many presidents could resist this argument, nor could many corporations should they have been trusted enough to be told what a few in government were told. Inman said the FBI was good at what it does but it was clueless about what NSA does. And NSA is not going to tell the FBI, which leads to nasty blow-ups. What remains is what DoJ is told about NSA's activities. Inman agreed with other panelists that DoJ will write a legal justification for whatever it is told. Sure, a few DoJ lawyers will refuse, but there are many others who will do it. Just as there are differences in DoJ, there are differences in NSA about complying with law governing surveillance, and at the present time newcomers are eager to skirt the law oldtimers, burned by the 1970s investigations, are scared shitless to break. Hayden is not with the old-timers because failure to warn of 9/11 was the greatest NSA failure ever -- CIA on the sidelines but taking the hit. Inman said he would probably do what Hayden did faced with the same circumstances. Inman said in response to an audience challenge that he believed in covert surveillance, "I've saved lives with it, the nation needs it." He emphasized, however, that oversight was essential to preserve democracy, and the FISA needs to be rewritten to fit today's enemy. He said he helped write the original FISA, all done in secret. He was not sure how open the rewrite could be, and he was troubled by the lack of intelligence oversight. ********************************************************************** For Listserv Instructions, see http://www.lawlists.net/cyberia Off-Topic threads: http://www.lawlists.net/mailman/listinfo/cyberia-ot Need more help? Send mail to: Cyberia-L-Request(a)listserv.aol.com ********************************************************************** ------------------------------------- You are subscribed as eugen(a)leitl.org To manage your subscription, go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/?listname=ip Archives at: http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/ ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of signature.asc]

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Hello,congratulations
by BOBBRY 06 Jul '18

06 Jul '18

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[Freedombox-discuss] Cory Doctorow's fictional FreedomBox helps us visualize it
by John Gilmore 06 Jul '18

06 Jul '18

It seems that once you follow a genius, you often find that other geniuses had already thought about that topic. Science fiction writer Cory Doctorow wrote a kids' book called Little Brother, whose plot revolves around high-school kids successfully culture-jamming against the Department of Homeland Security after it runs amok and starts kidnapping San Francisco residents into secret prisons. Lots of cool tech tricks are described, which frequently really work in the real world. One of them is a software distro called ParanoidLinux that runs on discarded zero-cost Microsoft XBox gaming hardware, creating an encrypted overlay network called Xnet. I'll let you read the story without saying more. ParanoidLinux is definitely one man's vision of solid Freedom Box software, useful when your government is trying to spy out and suppress anybody who disagrees with what it's doing. It's well worth reading that section. Cory offers all his books for free public downloads under a CC license. He makes money when people buy his books; but he gets more readers when people download and share them, and he wants both money and readers, so he does both. Get Little Brother in dozens of online formats (or printed copies) here: http://craphound.com/littlebrother/ http://craphound.com/littlebrother/download/ Search the online format for ParanoidLinux, then start reading... and if and when you get hooked, go back and start from the beginning. When you're done, give the book or file to a kid you know. John _______________________________________________ Freedombox-discuss mailing list Freedombox-discuss(a)lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE

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[Freedombox-discuss] Cory Doctorow's fictional FreedomBox helps us visualize it
by John Gilmore 06 Jul '18

06 Jul '18

It seems that once you follow a genius, you often find that other geniuses had already thought about that topic. Science fiction writer Cory Doctorow wrote a kids' book called Little Brother, whose plot revolves around high-school kids successfully culture-jamming against the Department of Homeland Security after it runs amok and starts kidnapping San Francisco residents into secret prisons. Lots of cool tech tricks are described, which frequently really work in the real world. One of them is a software distro called ParanoidLinux that runs on discarded zero-cost Microsoft XBox gaming hardware, creating an encrypted overlay network called Xnet. I'll let you read the story without saying more. ParanoidLinux is definitely one man's vision of solid Freedom Box software, useful when your government is trying to spy out and suppress anybody who disagrees with what it's doing. It's well worth reading that section. Cory offers all his books for free public downloads under a CC license. He makes money when people buy his books; but he gets more readers when people download and share them, and he wants both money and readers, so he does both. Get Little Brother in dozens of online formats (or printed copies) here: http://craphound.com/littlebrother/ http://craphound.com/littlebrother/download/ Search the online format for ParanoidLinux, then start reading... and if and when you get hooked, go back and start from the beginning. When you're done, give the book or file to a kid you know. John _______________________________________________ Freedombox-discuss mailing list Freedombox-discuss(a)lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE

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Re: [cryptography] Digital cash in the news...
by John Levine 06 Jul '18

06 Jul '18

>Unlike fiat currencies, algorithms assert limit of total volume. >And the mint and transaction infrastructure is decentral, so there's >no single point of control. These both are very useful properties. Useful for something, but not useful for money. I can't help but note that the level of economic knowledge in the digital cash community is pitifully low, and much of what people think they know is absurd. (Anyone who thinks that a gold standard is better than what we have now, or that the supply of gold is fixed in any but a purely hypothetical sense, is either ignorant of economic history or shilling for gold speculators.) Anyone who's interested in this stuff should study the economic history of the US, because we've tried everything, from gold to bimetalism, to bimetalism plus private paper to bimetalism plus public paper to a central bank with a formal gold standard, a central bank with an implicit gold standard, and the current central bank with no formal backing. The greatest impetus for the creation of the Federal Reserve in 1913 was that US business interests found themselves at a disadvantage in international trade because, due to no central bank, our currency was so flaky that nobody in other countries would write contracts in it, demanding pounds or francs instead. ObCrypto: it would be interesting to figure out how to create a digital currency that has the characteristics of real money. One possibility is to set up a sufficiently credible central bank that can manage the supply, but I doubt that would work unless that central bank was a national central bank, which would make the digital money fully convertible with real money. Another interesting model is ETFs, exchange traded mutual funds. They are tradable in arbitrarily small quantities, but only convertible to and from the underlying assets in large chunks by parties who have to register with the issuer. The trades are close to anonymous, fully so if you use an offshore bank, the conversions are not. The idea is that the conversions are done by arbitrageurs who track the prices of the asset and the ETF and buy or sell when they are sufficiently out of line. This works pretty well, and other than in chaotic markets it is quite rare for the values to get more than a fraction of a percent apart. The underlying asset can be anything with an easily determinable price such as a single currency or a basket of currencies. Regards, John Levine, johnl(a)iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly PS: If you think that the fixed supply of bitcoins is a good idea, look at closed end mutual funds, which issue a fixed number of shares that can never increase. They are as much a payment system as bitcoins are, since there are parties known as "stockbrokers" who stand ready to convert them into a form usable for third party payments at any time, at a price you won't know until you try it. _______________________________________________ cryptography mailing list cryptography(a)randombit.net http://lists.randombit.net/mailman/listinfo/cryptography ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE

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Re: [cryptography] Digital cash in the news...
by John Levine 06 Jul '18

06 Jul '18

>Unlike fiat currencies, algorithms assert limit of total volume. >And the mint and transaction infrastructure is decentral, so there's >no single point of control. These both are very useful properties. Useful for something, but not useful for money. I can't help but note that the level of economic knowledge in the digital cash community is pitifully low, and much of what people think they know is absurd. (Anyone who thinks that a gold standard is better than what we have now, or that the supply of gold is fixed in any but a purely hypothetical sense, is either ignorant of economic history or shilling for gold speculators.) Anyone who's interested in this stuff should study the economic history of the US, because we've tried everything, from gold to bimetalism, to bimetalism plus private paper to bimetalism plus public paper to a central bank with a formal gold standard, a central bank with an implicit gold standard, and the current central bank with no formal backing. The greatest impetus for the creation of the Federal Reserve in 1913 was that US business interests found themselves at a disadvantage in international trade because, due to no central bank, our currency was so flaky that nobody in other countries would write contracts in it, demanding pounds or francs instead. ObCrypto: it would be interesting to figure out how to create a digital currency that has the characteristics of real money. One possibility is to set up a sufficiently credible central bank that can manage the supply, but I doubt that would work unless that central bank was a national central bank, which would make the digital money fully convertible with real money. Another interesting model is ETFs, exchange traded mutual funds. They are tradable in arbitrarily small quantities, but only convertible to and from the underlying assets in large chunks by parties who have to register with the issuer. The trades are close to anonymous, fully so if you use an offshore bank, the conversions are not. The idea is that the conversions are done by arbitrageurs who track the prices of the asset and the ETF and buy or sell when they are sufficiently out of line. This works pretty well, and other than in chaotic markets it is quite rare for the values to get more than a fraction of a percent apart. The underlying asset can be anything with an easily determinable price such as a single currency or a basket of currencies. Regards, John Levine, johnl(a)iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly PS: If you think that the fixed supply of bitcoins is a good idea, look at closed end mutual funds, which issue a fixed number of shares that can never increase. They are as much a payment system as bitcoins are, since there are parties known as "stockbrokers" who stand ready to convert them into a form usable for third party payments at any time, at a price you won't know until you try it. _______________________________________________ cryptography mailing list cryptography(a)randombit.net http://lists.randombit.net/mailman/listinfo/cryptography ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE

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Re: [liberationtech] Efficient digital one-way communication
by Michael Rogers 06 Jul '18

06 Jul '18

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 03/03/13 14:25, Jens Christian Hillerup wrote: > I basically just wanted to throw it out here. Does anybody have > experience in modulating data? Has this kind of digital one-way > communication been done in an activist setting before? Does it > make sense to kick off a project aimed at creating a easily usable > system capable of modulating and demodulating data at modest > bitrates (>15KB/s)? Hi Jens, Last year I spent some time playing with audio encoding of data for transmission over handheld radios. The state of the art here is dialup modems - on a good day they can get 56,000 bits per second over a channel designed for voice, but that requires advanced modulation and error correction techniques. The radio hams have packet radio (AX.25 and APRS) running at 1,200-9,600 bps over long distances using simple modulation and no error correction. Some early home computers used audio cassettes for storage (300-1,200 bps, CUTS or Kansas City Standard). If you want to support purely one-way communication (no acks), you'll need to forward error correct the data. Hamming codes and parity checks are simple to implement but they'll eat a lot of your bandwidth; Reed-Solomon codes are more bandwidth-efficient but also more complex. Some Java code for modulation, framing and error correction is here if you're interested: http://briar.git.sf.net/git/gitweb.cgi?p=briar/sandpit;a=tree;f=src/net/sf/… http://briar.git.sf.net/git/gitweb.cgi?p=briar/sandpit;a=tree;f=src/net/sf/… Cheers, Michael -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJRNMBmAAoJEBEET9GfxSfMytEIAK2Y+r+22fKXbXCTFC2ALigw NoeHiHu0wfz4phyPZ5Dqk21dvvOFtP2RJaf+XY70cHKaYw2NW3dWnKNRmshJKtfH oCuZhjRAHhyy8xP+xJFNonEJgQrPkGHe7oFZ6FiqcpmOKL3RPU9G7oyrYYxr1Yas IX5Oxn7N3dG5BmkrN25VLrEieRumLMzakmywkFb2wQE1aQ2RnnQ9/SUPMnTQiPnV tK39FvSCJwbNVzmwZemVGMuiH/xiI3zJeIwtIK86HUEcKX9dS5Nk//b2al4RgXD/ mjwDD2ctBqu1JT7hMgOsETU37cU2BE14KpRfpR0mTzk6Nc8ZtA6KgW88lVku1u0= =Cpee -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at companys(a)stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE

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