- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

None
by registration＠ifilm.com 05 Jul '18

05 Jul '18

1 0

Re: [FoRK] For those indoctrinated by the military
by J. Andrew Rogers 05 Jul '18

05 Jul '18

> An alternative perspective. You should try to cultivate more of them. > Attack helicopters - I guess that would be one of the things the Russians > copied from Vietnam - dumbasses. That is simply the evolution of warfare. Helicopters were great for about twenty years, and then the US started deploying effective countermeasures against them in the 1980s (as the Russians learned in Afghanistan). The Russians learned how to design for close air support the very expensive way. The US has actually been scrapping new helicopter development, though it is committed to upgrading existing ones. While I don't remember where I heard it very recently, but the A-10 (a very well-engineered combat aircraft) has been granted a last minute reprieve and is slated to be upgraded i.e. they are substantially extending its service life. The US is still mostly using Cold War equipment that has been patched with some upgrades. A broad slate of completely new technology platforms is scheduled for deployment over the next several years, bringing a very substantial leap in capability over what the US already has. The new platforms are, quite frankly, pretty scary to the extent they completely obsolete existing platforms. The ability to effectively and methodically destroy irregular forces and guerillas in urban and not so urban settings were explicit design goals in many of these systems. The targeting and tracking granularity of the automated fire control and surveillance systems is no longer vehicle and unit size nor is it dependent on the centralization of resources in big capital equipment. Instead it is more like a decentralized swarm of smaller machines that can work at the granularity of a specific individual. This is actually big picture bad in the same way that strong AI is big picture bad. In an environment where such things exist, all you can do is hope that it isn't used against you because there isn't much you can do about it in such cases. If the initial conditions aren't favorable, then you are all but hosed. Naturally, the US military is already testing primitive active countermeasures against such weapons. j. andrew rogers _______________________________________________ FoRK mailing list http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144 http://www.leitl.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE http://moleculardevices.org http://nanomachines.net [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]

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[Politech] DC area only: Computer security for activists workshop in Baltimore this evening [priv]
by Declan McCullagh 05 Jul '18

05 Jul '18

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Computer Security for Activists Workshop #2 (Baltimore, MD) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 11:56:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Rob Carlson <rob(a)vees.net> Organization: vees.net To: Declan McCullagh <declan(a)well.com> This is mainly a Baltimore/DC item, but I think that subset of your Politech readers would find it appealing. Workshop #2: Security Mindset When: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 7:00 PM Where: Red Emma's Bookstore Coffeehouse 800 Saint Paul Street Baltimore, MD 410-230-0450 Concerned about online security culture? Worried about your privacy and anonymity as an activist? Curious about the technical aspects of government surveillance of the internet? This second workshop in our "Computer Security for Activists" series will focus on thinking in a security mindset and understanding the big picture of keeping secrets secret. Major topics: -Identifying Interception Points (Group Exercise) -Basic Threat Assessment (Group Exercise) -Understand the Law Enforcement Point of View -Thinking Outside the Beige Box -Understanding Trust For more information, see www.redemmas.org or e-mail rob(a)vees.net. This event is free and open to the public and no technical background is required. It is not necessary to have attended Workshop #1 to enjoy this one. Please buy and enjoy the fair trade coffees and peruse the books of our gracious host. Also, Richard Stallman has tentatively confirmed to be a speaker for the Mid-Atlantic Radical Bookfair which will be held just a block away from Red Emma's at CENTERSTAGE on Friday, June 30 through Sunday, July 2, 2006. For more information on the Bookfair, see: http://redemmas.org/bookfair/2006/section/main Rob -- Rob Carlson rob(a)vees.net http://vees.net/ _______________________________________________ Politech mailing list Archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ Moderated by Declan McCullagh (http://www.mccullagh.org/) ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of signature.asc]

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[liberationtech] Russian Internet Content Monitoring System To Go Live In December
by Pranesh Prakash 05 Jul '18

05 Jul '18

>From Techdirt: http://goo.gl/j7ZkU # Russian Internet Content Monitoring System To Go Live In December by Glyn Moody Wed, Nov 9th 2011 2:33am Back in April of this year, [the Russian government put out a tender][]: > Last week, Roskomnadzor, Russian Federal Service for Telecoms Supervision, announced a public tender for developing Internet monitoring system. According to the tender, the budget for such system is 15 million rubles (about $530,000) and the job applications should be submitted by April 15, 2011. The system needs to be developed by August 15, 2011 and the testing period should end on December 15, 2011. The stated purpose of the monitoring system was quite specific: > The major target of the monitoring, at least according to the Russian officials, is not traditional media websites or blogs, but comments at the online media outlets (it is important to note that the monitoring system is intended to be used for the content of the sites officially registered as online mass media). Herebs what it would be searching for: > Michail Vorobiev, an assistant to the head of Roskomnadzor, [told][] [ru] Russian information agency RIA Novosti that the systembs purpose was to discover content recognized by the Russian law as illegal. Such system will be based on two elements: a storage that would contain illegal materials (some sort of b thesaurus of illegal keywordsb) and the search system that will scan through the online space and compare the online text with the illegal content in the storage. > > The description of the tender is a long and openly published [document][] [ru], so what exactly the system should look for is not a secret. The number and the nature of goals that the search robot should achieve are surprising. It goes ways beyond incitement of national hatred or appeals to violence. In includes not only terrorism, appeals to actions that threaten constitutional order, materials that disclose classified security information, propaganda of drugs and pornography, but also false information about federal and regional officials, as well as content that threatens the freedom and secrecy of choice during elections. Another interesting goal is to discover content with hidden embedded components that seek to influence subconsciousness. If ito?=s not enough, the program would monitor not only textual, but also visual content (photos and videos). Itbs hard to see how a system costing just half-a-million dollars could achieve all that. And as Russian commentators have pointed out, allowing just a few months for the development and testing is equally suspicious: > For instance, Maksim Salomatin from Park.ru [says][] [ru] that the fact that participants of the tender should finish the work on the system in impossible 3 months means that, probably, Roskomnadzor has in mind some particular organization that has already worked on this program. In other words, perhaps the whole tendering process was a formality, and things had already been moving forward on this front in the background for some time. Support for that theory comes from the fact that despite the b impossible 3 monthsb of development, [the system will indeed be rolled out next month][]: > Roskomnadzor, Russian telecommunications control body, will launch content monitoring system in December 2011, Kommersant.ru [reports][] [ru]. The system ordered in March, 2011 (see GV analysis [here][the Russian government put out a tender]) is now in pre-release condition. Its documented abilities allow the monitoring of up to 5 mln keywords published at the websites registered as online mass media outlets. It will also monitor user comments. The experts fear that the scale of monitoring will extend to non-registered blogs and sites. As that points out, the danger is that once such a system is up and running, it will be progressively extended to include first b unofficialb media sites like blogs, and then, eventually, everything online. That might also explain why the tender quotes such a ridiculously small figure: the final system would be pretty expensive, but revealing that fact in the original tender would give away the true scope. The question then becomes: what will the authorities do with all that information? Since 2010, Roskomnadzor has been able to require online mass media to remove illegal comments, so it will presumably do the same when content is flagged up by the new system. But the very breadth of the online search is troubling, including as it does things like b false information about federal and regional officialsb, something that could clearly be used against whistle-blowers. Moreover, the danger here is not just for Russian citizens. Once again we are seeing a government striving to keep a much closer watch on key parts of the Internet b in this case, mass media sites. Assuming it succeeds b or at least claims to have succeeded b that is likely to encourage other countries to do the same. Although it would be nice to think that only b repressiveb governments would even think of doing such a thing, recent proposals by politicians in the US and Europe regarding [blocking sites][] and [spying on users][] indicate how naC/ve that would be. Follow me @glynmoody on [Twitter][] or [identi.ca][], and on [Google+][] ## Links [the Russian government put out a tender]: http://globalvoicesonline.org/2011/04/01/russia-new-government-iniative-que… [told]: http://www.radioportal.ru/law-club/12417/roskomnadzor-khochet-postavit-onla… [document]: http://zakupki.gov.ru/pgz/public/action/orders/info/common_info/show?notifi… [says]: http://www.cnews.ru/news/top/index.shtml?2011/03/21/432836 [the system will indeed be rolled out next month]: http://globalvoicesonline.org/2011/10/24/russia-government-to-launch-conten… [reports]: http://www.kommersant.ru/doc/1800370 [blocking sites]: http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20111102/01495216589/article-e-parasite-ac… [spying on users]: http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20111021/11554216450/eu-politician-wants-i… [Twitter]: http://twitter.com/glynmoody [identi.ca]: http://identi.ca/glynmoody [Google+]: https://plus.google.com/100647702320088380533 -- Pranesh Prakash Programme Manager Centre for Internet and Society W: http://cis-india.org | T: +91 80 40926283 _______________________________________________ liberationtech mailing list liberationtech(a)lists.stanford.edu Should you need to change your subscription options, please go to: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech If you would like to receive a daily digest, click "yes" (once you click above) next to "would you like to receive list mail batched in a daily digest?" You will need the user name and password you receive from the list moderator in monthly reminders. Should you need immediate assistance, please contact the list moderator. Please don't forget to follow us on http://twitter.com/#!/Liberationtech ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE

1 0

None
by registration＠ifilm.com 05 Jul '18

05 Jul '18

1 0

Re: [FoRK] For those indoctrinated by the military
by J. Andrew Rogers 05 Jul '18

05 Jul '18

> An alternative perspective. You should try to cultivate more of them. > Attack helicopters - I guess that would be one of the things the Russians > copied from Vietnam - dumbasses. That is simply the evolution of warfare. Helicopters were great for about twenty years, and then the US started deploying effective countermeasures against them in the 1980s (as the Russians learned in Afghanistan). The Russians learned how to design for close air support the very expensive way. The US has actually been scrapping new helicopter development, though it is committed to upgrading existing ones. While I don't remember where I heard it very recently, but the A-10 (a very well-engineered combat aircraft) has been granted a last minute reprieve and is slated to be upgraded i.e. they are substantially extending its service life. The US is still mostly using Cold War equipment that has been patched with some upgrades. A broad slate of completely new technology platforms is scheduled for deployment over the next several years, bringing a very substantial leap in capability over what the US already has. The new platforms are, quite frankly, pretty scary to the extent they completely obsolete existing platforms. The ability to effectively and methodically destroy irregular forces and guerillas in urban and not so urban settings were explicit design goals in many of these systems. The targeting and tracking granularity of the automated fire control and surveillance systems is no longer vehicle and unit size nor is it dependent on the centralization of resources in big capital equipment. Instead it is more like a decentralized swarm of smaller machines that can work at the granularity of a specific individual. This is actually big picture bad in the same way that strong AI is big picture bad. In an environment where such things exist, all you can do is hope that it isn't used against you because there isn't much you can do about it in such cases. If the initial conditions aren't favorable, then you are all but hosed. Naturally, the US military is already testing primitive active countermeasures against such weapons. j. andrew rogers _______________________________________________ FoRK mailing list http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144 http://www.leitl.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE http://moleculardevices.org http://nanomachines.net [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]

1 0

[Politech] DC area only: Computer security for activists workshop in Baltimore this evening [priv]
by Declan McCullagh 05 Jul '18

05 Jul '18

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Computer Security for Activists Workshop #2 (Baltimore, MD) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 11:56:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Rob Carlson <rob(a)vees.net> Organization: vees.net To: Declan McCullagh <declan(a)well.com> This is mainly a Baltimore/DC item, but I think that subset of your Politech readers would find it appealing. Workshop #2: Security Mindset When: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 7:00 PM Where: Red Emma's Bookstore Coffeehouse 800 Saint Paul Street Baltimore, MD 410-230-0450 Concerned about online security culture? Worried about your privacy and anonymity as an activist? Curious about the technical aspects of government surveillance of the internet? This second workshop in our "Computer Security for Activists" series will focus on thinking in a security mindset and understanding the big picture of keeping secrets secret. Major topics: -Identifying Interception Points (Group Exercise) -Basic Threat Assessment (Group Exercise) -Understand the Law Enforcement Point of View -Thinking Outside the Beige Box -Understanding Trust For more information, see www.redemmas.org or e-mail rob(a)vees.net. This event is free and open to the public and no technical background is required. It is not necessary to have attended Workshop #1 to enjoy this one. Please buy and enjoy the fair trade coffees and peruse the books of our gracious host. Also, Richard Stallman has tentatively confirmed to be a speaker for the Mid-Atlantic Radical Bookfair which will be held just a block away from Red Emma's at CENTERSTAGE on Friday, June 30 through Sunday, July 2, 2006. For more information on the Bookfair, see: http://redemmas.org/bookfair/2006/section/main Rob -- Rob Carlson rob(a)vees.net http://vees.net/ _______________________________________________ Politech mailing list Archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ Moderated by Declan McCullagh (http://www.mccullagh.org/) ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of signature.asc]

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[liberationtech] Russian Internet Content Monitoring System To Go Live In December
by Pranesh Prakash 05 Jul '18

05 Jul '18

>From Techdirt: http://goo.gl/j7ZkU # Russian Internet Content Monitoring System To Go Live In December by Glyn Moody Wed, Nov 9th 2011 2:33am Back in April of this year, [the Russian government put out a tender][]: > Last week, Roskomnadzor, Russian Federal Service for Telecoms Supervision, announced a public tender for developing Internet monitoring system. According to the tender, the budget for such system is 15 million rubles (about $530,000) and the job applications should be submitted by April 15, 2011. The system needs to be developed by August 15, 2011 and the testing period should end on December 15, 2011. The stated purpose of the monitoring system was quite specific: > The major target of the monitoring, at least according to the Russian officials, is not traditional media websites or blogs, but comments at the online media outlets (it is important to note that the monitoring system is intended to be used for the content of the sites officially registered as online mass media). Herebs what it would be searching for: > Michail Vorobiev, an assistant to the head of Roskomnadzor, [told][] [ru] Russian information agency RIA Novosti that the systembs purpose was to discover content recognized by the Russian law as illegal. Such system will be based on two elements: a storage that would contain illegal materials (some sort of b thesaurus of illegal keywordsb) and the search system that will scan through the online space and compare the online text with the illegal content in the storage. > > The description of the tender is a long and openly published [document][] [ru], so what exactly the system should look for is not a secret. The number and the nature of goals that the search robot should achieve are surprising. It goes ways beyond incitement of national hatred or appeals to violence. In includes not only terrorism, appeals to actions that threaten constitutional order, materials that disclose classified security information, propaganda of drugs and pornography, but also false information about federal and regional officials, as well as content that threatens the freedom and secrecy of choice during elections. Another interesting goal is to discover content with hidden embedded components that seek to influence subconsciousness. If ito?=s not enough, the program would monitor not only textual, but also visual content (photos and videos). Itbs hard to see how a system costing just half-a-million dollars could achieve all that. And as Russian commentators have pointed out, allowing just a few months for the development and testing is equally suspicious: > For instance, Maksim Salomatin from Park.ru [says][] [ru] that the fact that participants of the tender should finish the work on the system in impossible 3 months means that, probably, Roskomnadzor has in mind some particular organization that has already worked on this program. In other words, perhaps the whole tendering process was a formality, and things had already been moving forward on this front in the background for some time. Support for that theory comes from the fact that despite the b impossible 3 monthsb of development, [the system will indeed be rolled out next month][]: > Roskomnadzor, Russian telecommunications control body, will launch content monitoring system in December 2011, Kommersant.ru [reports][] [ru]. The system ordered in March, 2011 (see GV analysis [here][the Russian government put out a tender]) is now in pre-release condition. Its documented abilities allow the monitoring of up to 5 mln keywords published at the websites registered as online mass media outlets. It will also monitor user comments. The experts fear that the scale of monitoring will extend to non-registered blogs and sites. As that points out, the danger is that once such a system is up and running, it will be progressively extended to include first b unofficialb media sites like blogs, and then, eventually, everything online. That might also explain why the tender quotes such a ridiculously small figure: the final system would be pretty expensive, but revealing that fact in the original tender would give away the true scope. The question then becomes: what will the authorities do with all that information? Since 2010, Roskomnadzor has been able to require online mass media to remove illegal comments, so it will presumably do the same when content is flagged up by the new system. But the very breadth of the online search is troubling, including as it does things like b false information about federal and regional officialsb, something that could clearly be used against whistle-blowers. Moreover, the danger here is not just for Russian citizens. Once again we are seeing a government striving to keep a much closer watch on key parts of the Internet b in this case, mass media sites. Assuming it succeeds b or at least claims to have succeeded b that is likely to encourage other countries to do the same. Although it would be nice to think that only b repressiveb governments would even think of doing such a thing, recent proposals by politicians in the US and Europe regarding [blocking sites][] and [spying on users][] indicate how naC/ve that would be. Follow me @glynmoody on [Twitter][] or [identi.ca][], and on [Google+][] ## Links [the Russian government put out a tender]: http://globalvoicesonline.org/2011/04/01/russia-new-government-iniative-que… [told]: http://www.radioportal.ru/law-club/12417/roskomnadzor-khochet-postavit-onla… [document]: http://zakupki.gov.ru/pgz/public/action/orders/info/common_info/show?notifi… [says]: http://www.cnews.ru/news/top/index.shtml?2011/03/21/432836 [the system will indeed be rolled out next month]: http://globalvoicesonline.org/2011/10/24/russia-government-to-launch-conten… [reports]: http://www.kommersant.ru/doc/1800370 [blocking sites]: http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20111102/01495216589/article-e-parasite-ac… [spying on users]: http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20111021/11554216450/eu-politician-wants-i… [Twitter]: http://twitter.com/glynmoody [identi.ca]: http://identi.ca/glynmoody [Google+]: https://plus.google.com/100647702320088380533 -- Pranesh Prakash Programme Manager Centre for Internet and Society W: http://cis-india.org | T: +91 80 40926283 _______________________________________________ liberationtech mailing list liberationtech(a)lists.stanford.edu Should you need to change your subscription options, please go to: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech If you would like to receive a daily digest, click "yes" (once you click above) next to "would you like to receive list mail batched in a daily digest?" You will need the user name and password you receive from the list moderator in monthly reminders. Should you need immediate assistance, please contact the list moderator. Please don't forget to follow us on http://twitter.com/#!/Liberationtech ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE

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None
by R. A. Hettinga 05 Jul '18

05 Jul '18

irtheory-owner(a)yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list irtheory(a)yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 17:01:04 -0400 Subject: Re: [irtheory] War ain't beanbag. Irony is conserved. Reply-To: irtheory(a)yahoogroups.com At 4:43 PM -0400 6/13/04, Daniel Nexon wrote: >The quotation marks here, I assume, are a disclaimer. Liberalism is not >Marxism. Nor, for that matter, is support for social democracy. There *you* go again. :-) Cheers, RAH -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)ibuc.com> The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/_tgrlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/irtheory/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: irtheory-unsubscribe(a)yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)ibuc.com> The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

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None
by R. A. Hettinga 05 Jul '18

05 Jul '18

irtheory-owner(a)yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list irtheory(a)yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 17:01:04 -0400 Subject: Re: [irtheory] War ain't beanbag. Irony is conserved. Reply-To: irtheory(a)yahoogroups.com At 4:43 PM -0400 6/13/04, Daniel Nexon wrote: >The quotation marks here, I assume, are a disclaimer. Liberalism is not >Marxism. Nor, for that matter, is support for social democracy. There *you* go again. :-) Cheers, RAH -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)ibuc.com> The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/_tgrlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/irtheory/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: irtheory-unsubscribe(a)yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)ibuc.com> The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

1 0