- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

FWEE!: Premature Ejaculation
by internaut＠aol.com 07 Mar '93

07 Mar '93

>>nowhere(a)bsu-cs.bsu.edu >> >>Way cool--Pentagon gettin' zapped! >> >>F-117A Nighthawk ("Stealth") Program--Summary Uh-huh... OK. Easy now, Lads... Let's not "jump the gun." It is with a strange mixture of giddy delight and dire trepidation that I 'pen' this note to you all. I read "nowhere's" posting with no small amount of interest and yet I have a BIG PROBLEM with it, so I thought I would post this tiny reminder to everyone about "what the hell are we fighting for" (anyone else around here remember singing along with Country Joe and MEANING it? ...1-2-3) before any more such postings occur. If you answer "don't ask me, I don't give a damn," I worry about you (...5-6-7). Some thoughts: 1. The Whistleblower system currently under construction (in more ways than one) is of extremely high value both to us as digital pioneers and ultimately to the People of this country and by extension of the world. It promises to open up 'doors' that would otherwise stay very tightly shut. This is no small thing. 2. The WB system should be directed toward uncovering structural ABUSES by persons or companies entrusted with the interests and/or funds of the People. Remember, this whole gig is supposed to be "of, by and for the People." We're just here to remind the trustees not to cook the books like George Herbert Fucking Walker Bush did. Infact he can be considered as one of our most interesting subjects, whatever flat little Texas rock he might be hiding under right now. We haven't forgotten you George, we're just getting our digital posse rounded up. Except there's someone among us who's wearing his/her gun belt a little too tight already, to wit: 3. The purpose of such a system is NOT to cater to the puerile (look it up, it comes from the Latin for 'childish' and yes, I indulge in it often enough to understand) impulses of people who'd like to anger the Dark Side just for the sake of thumbing their noses at Authority, but to truly cut the Dark Side to the bone - to expose their Darkest Secrets and leave them bleeding ink all over the front pages. I recently paraphrased the Bible (and probably every other religious tome since recorded Herstory began) in conversation with two of my favorite Cypherpunks and I now see the value of sharing this tidbit with all of you: "That which is whispered of in closets, shall be shouted from the rooftops for all to hear." ...I propose this as a suitable motto for the Whistleblowers and possibly even the Cypherpunks - at least those with an ironic bent. (Btw, would the more Bible-literate among us please feel free to cite chapter & verse, so I can find where I read this and quote it more accurately in the future.) 4. Posting information of the kind in "nowhere's" transmission (though admittedly fascinating) will only serve to ALERT and STRENGTHEN the position and attack capabilities of those who would defeat the WB system BEFORE it truly gets off the ground. Post data like this NOW and you provide ammunition to sharpshooters who need an excuse to terminate us with extreme prejudice. Compare the value of information of the sort in "nowhere's" posting (which I might add can probably be found by the more astute among us in certain lesser-known defense industry publications) with an anonymous posting by someone taking a very BIG chance with his/her life by proclaiming the complete and utter lack of integrity of persons charged with the maintenance of Democracy or persons charged with the maintenance of the Safety and Security of the People. I ask you, fellow Patriots: what would you rather read? Would the expose' of a high-ranking member of the Military-Industrial Complex be of greater value to you than the specs on the composition of a plastic wing's leading-edge? Let us not forget who arranges for the development of such weapons - those who loose the Dogs of War, not the Dogs themselves should be our Enemy. Another hypothetical example: would you like to know what the US Government knows about _who_ shot John Fitzgerald Kennedy and _why_? Keep posting information on expensive black budget D-Fens items and see if we ever find out. I don't particularly want some haircut sliding in my front door with a warrant just because I'm on this list - and don't think I'm overreacting (because I am). FLAME. A wise man chooses his weapon carefully and does not shoot his bolt before the target is well in sight. In the teachings of ancient strategists, one can find many sage postings on when to keep one's powder dry, when to retreat for strategic/tactical advantage and when to just plain shut the fuck up so no one knows you're hiding there with your pointy stick. "Verbum sat sapienti est." In Latin (remember how far those Roman strategists got!) this means "wise up or someone with much fancier toys will come and take your cereal box and you'll be left with no whistle to blow. I get off on reading about Inspector Gadget's Flying Doomsday Jets as much as the next technoweenie, but I also have an idea of what's really important here. As a person who threw bricks at riot police in the '60's, I have an indelible impression of what it is that Freedom of Speech is all about and I don't want to risk a potentially incredible source of Freedom of Speech all for a few nuts and bolts descriptions of some weapons systems that some very dangerous mofos will do just about anything to keep under wraps. Remember, no system of anonymity or encryption is _completely_ secure: give the wrong entity a good reason to focus its highbeams on us now, and you jeapordize our whole mission. One might even say that a valid attack strategy for someone who wants to take us down is to float such postings NOW so that serious, formal complaints could be substantiated in the not-too-distant future. dave "are you experienced?" del torto, aka d2t

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MEETING: CFP>$!
by internaut＠aol.com 07 Mar '93

07 Mar '93

Gang, Since Tim May took the pardonable liberty of putting virtual words in my mouth about my opinion of the costs of CFP, I just thought that I would "reply" by publicly posting my thanks to Judi Clark for her explanation of what goes into a CFP conference. I have been both educated and humbled by her communication. Thank you, Judi. Firstly, I have to say that my initial reservation (all puns intended) about CFP's cost was motivated PURELY my current lack of cash. Naturally, I would have preferred to have returned a conference fee reimbursement slip to some FatCat with a stouter wallet than my own, but alas, I currently have no such overly-resourced feline to fall back on. Secondly, although I surely did mutter about how much it costs and Tim was perfectly within the bounds of reason to infer some reticence on my part, I did manage to do something constructive about it by volunteering to help out with a good cause. Judi was generous to mention my fairly insignificant contribution, especially compared to the vast amount of work that she and her cohorts have put in, but given any opportunity, I would have been, and still am, willing to do what I can to ensure that the whole thing goes smoothly. With every bite of every free meal I can weasel out of this deal, I will be thanking her for the favor she is doing to my pathetic cash-flow situation. BTW, Judi, should I be caught stuffing dinner rolls up my sleeves, I trust you'll keep the Sheriff from cuffing me too tightly. Thirdly, for philosophical and intellectual reasons, I am _really_ excited to be able to attend, even as a janitor/hacker, and will do my best to feed back information and impressions to everyone on the list who doesn't have the opportunity to attend. In case someone has not been paying attention, my philosophy involves dirtying my hands when something shows value to me and to others. Anonymous remailers in support of Whistleblowers; conferences that support the Mission; visiting dignitaries who need a ride to the airport ("May I carry your briefcase Ms. Denning?"), whatever... Finally, to be fair, I do NOT want to imply that Tim is whining. CFP _IS_ very expensive for us mortals and there are a lot of people who _should_ be attending instead of me but simply can't afford it. Tim probably has a full-time job (unlike yours truly) and no time for volunteerism so I won't for a nsec lean out of my glass house and suggest that he's alone in his opinions because I basically agree that everything should be free. In fact, Tim's contributions to this list dwarf mine to the point where I should be thanking him just for enlightening me with his opinions. Thanks, Tim. David "Steal This Email" Del Torto ^ ^ ^ = DDT ... d2t

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Re: F-117A Nighthawk pseudo"revelation".
by Michael 07 Mar '93

07 Mar '93

Re: The F117A message left to cypherpunks by an anonymous fellow on Fri 4/5. What a bunch of bull! Consider the following reasons which are obvious to any intelligent and technologically savvy reader: "employs active and passive techniques to change color" Logical baloney. What is a "passive way to change color"? "Passive" means to do nothing, yet changing color is an obviously "active act". Sounds like $100 words that mean absolutely nothing if one things about what he is reading, rather than swallowing it whole. "When flying low, it adjusts its radar cross section to a high flying interceptor aiming radar downwards at it, so as to match its own radar reflectance to that of the ground". Logical baloney again. How can that plane know the radar cross section (the reflectance) of the terrain below it unless it is itself aiming a radar at the ground? But if it did aim a radar itself, it would stand out like a sore thumb to ground based receivers, so it couldn't logially do so. "ECM/ESM circuitsd are mounted on the skin to avoid the need for antennas". Technical baloney! A radio fequency receiver or transmitter needs a means to couple to the outside world; this means is called antenna. You just cannot wish the function of an antenna away; basic physics (of which the writer of the nonsense I am responding to is ignorant) requires a physical capture area for an antenna. And on and on and on... And besides, lets consider the motivation of the writer of the message which ostensibly "unvovered" the information he broadcast to the world. (Never mind that it was nonsense, as per above. Since internet is worldwide, is that fellow telling us that he, in his infinite wisdom, decided that what is presented as classified info should be released? Why? And, assuming that his information was correct which it isn't as per above, does he say that ALL classified information should be released by anybody that has it, or is he saying that he himself is blessd ed by the almighty to have this super judgement to unilaterally declassify things? Or is he telling us (assuming that his info is correct, which it isn't as per above) that he is knowingly guilty of treason for disclosing classified info and, as a logical corollary, that he wants to harm this country? Oh, well, the world never had a shortage of snake oil salesmen nor of irresponsible and treasonous fools.

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ACT NOW!
by Matthew J Miszewski 07 Mar '93

07 Mar '93

Dear Cypherpunks- The talk on this list is incredible. Having grown up during the dawn of personal telecommunications, (I remember a 110 baud modem and running to get the phone in he cups in time), it amazes me how far we have come. Compared to the first BBSs, the level of discourse ha also advanced. Well, now that we have all matured (no offense to my first mentors) the time has come to combine our social concerns and our knowledge of technology. Now is the time for empowerment and action. I know many of you have been discussing (flaming) about anarchy. I understand that movement but I believe we are ready to act on a different level. Most of us hold strong personal and political beliefs. I think it is time for us to come together (as much as is possible) and distribute and activate our ideas. Cryptography (finally got to the point) will play an intimate part in any real technical revolution. I am _far_ from an expert (finally unzipped PGP2.1). And so, I need to enlist the great minds present on or reading this list. I speak in general terms so as not to offend some. I know some feel that power need not be redistributed and I respectfully have kept things vague (did you see that graceful sidestep of the inevitable *flame*). I also kept this brief so as not to disturb the S/N ratio any more. So, very briefly, I assert: Information, technology and control of both _is_ power. *Anonymous* telecommunications has the potential to be the greatest equalizer in history. Bringing this power to as many as possible will forever change the discourse of power in this country (and the world). This is intimately involved with political and economic theory, but can be accomplished without fatally altering the existing models of these theories. We, with the knowledge, have the power to change everything we see. But, we must act. We must organize. And we must start _now_. Please send me private email so as not to burden the Cypherpunks list or increase the noise. I will listen to all (and fully expect certain folks). BTW, I am not a socialist, communist, liberal, conservative, fascist, et al. I do not believe in simple change, but actual progress. I believe in progression not politics. I believe the private sector is an untapped resource for furthering social justice. I am a Law Student with a deep sense of social urgency. (Not your typical lawyer-to-be). I await _ALL_ responses. Thanx, mjmiski(a)macc.wisc.edu Matthew J. Miszewski

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No Subject
by Jim C 06 Mar '93

06 Mar '93

subscribe me!

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ANNOUNCE: Boston-area cypherpunks meeting?
by Eric Fogleman 06 Mar '93

06 Mar '93

Is there any interest in a meeting of Boston-area cypherpunks? (I've seen at least two mit.edus out there...) I'd be interested in meeting some of you in person, exchanging keys, etc. Eric Fogleman

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One last time Re: CFP Costs Too Much! (long)
by judic＠sunnyside.com 06 Mar '93

06 Mar '93

Hi Tim I wanted to take a minute to respond to your note about the cost of CFP'93. There are several things that you a) don't know, and/or b) aren't taking into account. Altho' my writing style is somewhat cut-throat (why I am not a writer), this is not a re-flame, but rather an informational piece. As such, if you are still interested, I can discuss the conference costs in more detail at a future date (like sometime after the conference?). >Dave Deltorto is one of several people I know, including myself, who don't >like the prices of the upcoming Computers, Freedom, and Privacy Conference: > >>.... I would also dearly like to attend CFP, but >>I haven't yet found a way to do it without money (anyone who knows a way I >>can volunteer my way in and help out please say so - I'll sweep up after, >>anything...). Dave found a way to attend. He is a volunteer for the conference, and as such, gets in free. There are over 20 such volunteers this year. FYI, volunteers impact the costs of the conference in two ways: 1) They help to keep staffing costs out of the budget 2) They aren't guaranteed lunches/banquets so as not to increase food costs. Given that many paid registrants don't show up for one meal or another, volunteers help "take up the slack" with the extra meals. :-) optional info: In addition, volunteers help to round out the attendance. As volunteer coordinator, I have sought to fill as many volunteer positions with women and minorities as possible. Dave, as a hacker, is one such minority. (I'm sure this method of choosing volunteers will vary with future confs.) >In my opinion, $405 is way too much to pay for this conference. Science >Fiction conventions routinely get the use of major hotels at a far lower >per head price (from $40-$125 is typical). The BayCon convention takes over >most of the public facilities in San Jose's Red Lion Inn (several >ballrooms, many smaller rooms, and most of the public lobby areas), has >about 500 attendees (same as CFP), and charges less than $100 for 4 days >(and one-day memberships are typically around $30). And the "Hackers >Conference" has kept its cost down to around $300, which includes two >nights lodging and all meals (very sumptuous meals, too). Conventions typically don't have 80 speakers, nor formal banquet functions. Meals are certainly a BIG part of our costs. Speaker meals are part of costs. Admittedly, if we were offering "a place to show things", we would be partly subsidized by booth space costs and other commercial ventures; our costs would be less. CFP has traditionally ruled that commercial booths are NOT a part of the program, and have declined offers to "buy" space on our floor. You mention that Hacker's keeps costs down to $300 for two nights. While we don't include the cost of the night's lodging for a number of reasons, we do include meals. Further, Hacker's attendees all pay equally. CFP has 80 speakers which, while they do not receive pay for their part, do receive all meals. Part of the cost in attending reflects what you're coming to hear, in the settings that we have arranged (single-track sessions, banquet speakers, etc.) >Granted, CFP puts out a nice transcript of the talks--credit them $20 for >that. Thanks for credit for the transcripts, but the $20 isn't ours. The proceedings need to be transcribed word for word from the conference, edited, and made camera-ready before IEEE or ACM (or whoever publishes it) get the $20 each. optional info: IEEE published the first conference, and has not yet made back the cost of printing their small run. Those transcripts are now online. What do you think their chances are now of making their costs back? The transcripts also need to be re-edited/indexed for free online public distribution. Noone has offered to do any of this for free yet... >Granted, a couple of meals are thrown in--credit them another $30 or so. You haven't talked with hotels lately. Continental breakfasts typically cost $5 per person, lunches are another $15 per person, and dinners $20. Add an 18% service charge and 8.25% tax to that, and multiply by 3 days... >What's left is still too much. Yes, a "register early" discount >exists/existed, but inasmuch as there's a nonzero risk someone can't attend >(and hence loses what they paid, or some fraction of it), counting such >discounts is not really kosher. You're missing the point of the early registration. You apparently didn't take into account that we printed brochures and paid for mailings to some 40,000 people plus thousands more in press. While two of us worked for several months with no pay, we did incur many expenses. We bear the costs of bringing this conference to you until we are reimbursed. As Jim Warren will tell you, this is no small change. The first conference, with 400+ attendees, made $1000 in "profit", and was donated to CPSR, conf sponsors. >There are several possible reasons for the high fees: > >1. Price insensitivity. Wrong. We have a history of what this conference costs, and do all that we can to keep costs down. For example, the conference chairman doesn't get paid. As Organizing Coordinator, I might or might not, depending on the conference outcome. While the cost of this conference is minimal to a few of the attendees, it is obviously a big factor to many. That's why we received over 100 requests for scholarships this year, and why we were able to find separate funding for 40 full registrations (twice as many as last year!). We would like to have gotten more... >2. "Everyone else is doing it." This is irrelevant. We are not doing anything because "Everyone else is doing it." Rather, we are trying to do things that everyone else is NOT doing. >3. Subsidies of journalists. Journalists are admitted free, but must pay for meals themselves. Tim, I'm sorry to hear you won't be there for whatever reason. Phiber's right, lots of the good stuff happens throughout the whole place. And thanks, Fen, we try. (Hacker's is a different world. Would it be that we could do some things more informally...) I look forward to a fun, informative and project-generating conference. judi <judic(a)sunnyside.com>

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Re: ANON: Sysadmin Policies at Universities (and HS)
by Stephen Dunne (+44) 71-538-5656 06 Mar '93

06 Mar '93

>If you want to have such a thing to call "your account" you're welcome >to plunk down some $$$, buy a machine, get yerself a network link, and >remail to your heart's content. If I were another CS student at UB, I >would be bummed if the scarce (by your account, and by most others at >universities) cycles I needed to get my homework done were being given >away to folks all over the world via a remailer. Hmmm.. Unless you guys in the states get third level education for free you've *already* plunked down some $$$ as course fees. I would assume that a portion of the fees for an IT related course would be applied to purchase/upkeep of the relevant kit. IMHO the attitude of educational establishments which can border on the paranoid whenever they come across usage of "their" systems which isn't typical is very similar to the classic model of the commercial DP gruppenfuhrer... Both can be regarded as empire-builders.. Stephen

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Kill lines
by edgar＠spectrx.Saigon.COM 06 Mar '93

06 Mar '93

I agree with Eli Brandt that Chael Hall's simple implementation of a standard "kill" line is preferable to the complicated "Regexp" specification. I could manage it, but I agree with Eli that many could not. Eli offers an alternative of Signature-Lines: <count> Assuming that this can be inserted in the body of the message with the :: convention as well as among the headers, this is acceptable, but is still more complicated than the "kill line". The proper number for "signature-lines" will have to be found by trial and error, by sending messages to oneself. One caveat here. Any remailer which implements "signature-lines" will have to -remove- that line from the header (or change <number> to zero) when it removes the <number> of signature lines from the end of the body. Otherwise, a chain of "signature-lines" remailers would -each- see the "signature-lines" header and would -each- remove <number> lines from the end of the message body. -- edgar(a)spectrx.saigon.com (Edgar W. Swank) SPECTROX SYSTEMS +1.408.252.1005 Silicon Valley, Ca

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Internet radio
by crunch＠netcom.com 06 Mar '93

06 Mar '93

Re: Internet radio.... I can see (or actually hear it now) - Stay tuned for the super duper Cypherspace hot hit 100, coming up after these messages... And about 15 minutes of BS about the right hair spray to buy... JD

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