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Gold-Age CC-statement Warning
by Gold-Age 27 Sep '00

27 Sep '00

Dear Valued Customer, Between 09/01/2000 and today (09/26/2000) you placed an order with Gold-Age. If your order was approved and your credit card billed, something similar to the following may show up on your credit card statement transaction description. "Gold-Age, LLC: Dating/Escort Services" This is obviously incorrect!!! It should read something like: "Gold-Age, LLC: Precious Metals, coins, etc." or some similar phrase indicating that we deal in precious metals. What happened is that our credit card processor put the wrong business description codes into the credit card networks when they set up our account. The error has been corrected and any future CC-statements should have the correct business description on them. Thank you for your time, and thank you for using Gold-Age. Regards, Parker E.C. Bradley President Gold-Age, LLC ------------------------------ parker(a)gold-age.net www.gold-age.net ------------------------------ --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)ibuc.com> The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

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Gold-Age CC-statement Warning
by Gold-Age 27 Sep '00

27 Sep '00

Dear Valued Customer, Between 09/01/2000 and today (09/26/2000) you placed an order with Gold-Age. If your order was approved and your credit card billed, something similar to the following may show up on your credit card statement transaction description. "Gold-Age, LLC: Dating/Escort Services" This is obviously incorrect!!! It should read something like: "Gold-Age, LLC: Precious Metals, coins, etc." or some similar phrase indicating that we deal in precious metals. What happened is that our credit card processor put the wrong business description codes into the credit card networks when they set up our account. The error has been corrected and any future CC-statements should have the correct business description on them. Thank you for your time, and thank you for using Gold-Age. Regards, Parker E.C. Bradley President Gold-Age, LLC ------------------------------ parker(a)gold-age.net www.gold-age.net ------------------------------ --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)ibuc.com> The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

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None
by Robert Huddleston 27 Sep '00

27 Sep '00

believer(a)telepath.com) Subject: ip: The secret files of Ron Brown by Charles Smith http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_smith/20000927_xcsof_the_secret.shtml WorldNetDaily WEDNESDAY SEPTEMBER 27 2000 The secret files of Ron Brown by Charles Smith ---------- ) 2000 WorldNetDaily.com Wen Ho Lee is charged with removing classified material from a secure area. Despite Lee's guilty plea to a widely public and much touted case, a former Clinton appointee connected to Al Gore has admitted to far worse and walked -- without being charged or even questioned. In 1996, the former Commerce employee walked into a secure area, put classified files in a box, and then walked out the door. That former employee was Ira Sockowitz, then special general counsel at Commerce. Without authorization, he took 136 files, over 2,000 pages of highly classified materials, and simply walked away. The Sockowitz files include secret reports on cryptography from the NSA, a secret report on Russia from the CIA, secret cables from France, secret documents on U.S.-Russian space launches, even materials on U.S. efforts to purchase weapon's grade uranium from Russia. Sockowitz also had the complete biographies on foreign political leaders in Bosnia, Croatia, India, Turkey, and Russia. The CIA deemed the material so secret that it tried to seize Sockowitz's files as soon as it learned what had happened. The Sockowitz files were discovered only after an anonymous tip to the public-interest group Judicial Watch in October 1996. Judicial Watch then deposed Sockowitz, a former New York state administrative law judge. Sockowitz testified that he was an "advance person" for the 1992 Clinton-Gore campaign. He was put on the 1993 inaugural committee at the request of vice president AI Gore's office. Gore's office also approved that Sockowitz be appointed as a Commerce Department special general counsel in November 1993. At the Commerce Department, Sockowitz worked with John Huang "vetting" companies that wished to travel with Ron Brown on trade trips. John Huang is a central figure in the growing Chinagate scandal. In 1999, Huang pled guilty to illegal campaign donations to the 1996 Clinton-Gore campaign. Huang also cited his Fifth Amendment rights over 2,000 times when questioned if he was working as a spy for Chinese intelligence. One such mission vetted by Sockowitz and Huang was the now infamous 1994 trip to China. According to Nolanda Hill the Clinton-Gore White House demanded the trip take place. Hill, a former business partner and close friend of the late Commerce Secretary Ron Brown, has testified that Brown was very nervous about the deals with China. One such deal included Loral and the Chinese army. In 1994 Loral Corp. CEO Bernard Schwartz traveled to China with Ron Brown and Ira Sockowitz. Despite a failing memory on many other issues, during a Judicial Watch deposition Sockowitz claimed he did recall sitting next to Schwartz at a 1994 dinner in Beijing with Chinese officials. Sockowitz did not mention that one official sitting next to Schwartz was People's Liberation Army Lt. Gen. Shen Roujun. In 1994, Lt. Gen. Shen, was second in command at COSTIND, the Chinese Commission for Science, Technology and Industry for National Defense. COSTIND, according to the Government Accounting Office "oversees development of China's weapon systems and is responsible for identifying and acquiring telecommunications technology applicable for military use." In August 1994, Shen met and consummated a series of satellite deals with Schwartz and Loral. The Beijing meeting was requested by Schwartz, arranged by President Clinton and included Commerce Secretary Ron Brown. The technology obtained from Loral included advanced rocket guidance and encrypted satellite telemetry systems. During 1994, Shen had time to visit the United States. During that visit, his son, Shen Jun, attended a business lunch with his father and Frank Taormina of Hughes. Taormina later assisted Shen Jun in obtaining a job at Hughes. Shen Jun was hired at Hughes in August of 1994 at the same time Schwartz was visiting with his father in Beijing. It was no coincidence that a division of Space Systems/Loral was also considering hiring Shen for a position that would have allowed him access to classified information. During the August 1994 trade trip to China, Schwartz also met with Liu Ju-Yuan the minister of China Aerospace Corporation. China Aerospace makes both the civilian Long March rocket and the nuclear tipped CSS missile for the Second Artillery Corps of the Chinese army. Minister Liu is also the official boss of Chinese army Col. Liu Chao Ying. Chao contributed thousands of dollars to the DNC through convicted China-Gate figure Johnny Chung. Col. Liu's real boss, however, turned out to be Gen. Ji, the military intelligence director of the People's Liberation Army. Schwartz lobbied hard to get satellite export controls moved from State to Commerce. He has given millions to Democrats since 1992, including recent large donations to Hillary Clinton's New York senate campaign. Schwartz has also succeeded in obtaining a space monopoly. The bulk of the Sockowitz files contain information on a now-defunct U.S.-Chinese space venture called Iridium, a competitor of the Loral Globalstar project. Iridium was working with an international team of leading aerospace and electronic leaders in Russia and Red China to construct a worldwide satellite telecommunications network. In 1994, Loral and Schwartz were behind Iridium with his Globalstar project. Motorola's Iridium included Russia's Ministry of Atomics, Khrunichev Space Research and Production Space Center in Balkonur, and the China Great Wall Industry Group, a company previously sanctioned for selling M-11 nuclear tipped missiles to Pakistan. Created by Motorola in 1987, Iridium has direct ties to Ron Brown and the Democratic Party. Leo Mondale, a nephew of the former vice president, was vice president of strategic planning for Iridium. Mondale and Motorola executive Edward Staino hired four of Brown's former employees to run Iridium. All of them were former DNC fund-raisers, and all of them newly armed with high-level security clearances. Motorola also hired former White House National Security Council member Dr. Richard Barth. Dr. Barth, according to now CIA Director George Tenet, was very important to the Clinton-Gore satellite export policy. Tenet served in the 1993 White House as a national security advisor to Clinton and Gore. "Why are you leaving me?" Tenet asked Barth in a 1993 White House e-mail obtained using the Freedom of Information Act. "Do you want my job? my wife? My 1974 Camaro? This place will suck eggs without you to keep me sane." Dr. Barth was hired in 1993 by Motorola as a lobbyist for the Iridium satellite system. "Barthman" was so important to the Clinton White House that he was allowed to come back as a paid contract adviser to the White House on the very same policy he was lobbying for Motorola. In 1994, Barth requested a waiver for Motorola to export encrypted Iridium satellite radio equipment, highly sought by the Chinese military, directly to the People's Republic of China. "Such a waiver would not reduce NSA's (National Security Agency's) oversight over all encryption containing exports to China," noted Barth in the fax addressed to Tenet. "Current controls remain, only the need to notify Congress of each sale is removed. We currently have about $100 million worth of two way radio business tied up by the lack of a waiver for China and face losing a market of about $500 million. ... Finally while we now are not yet applying for licenses for encrypted systems for satellite positioning, we may within months be applying for such licenses for our Iridium systems." The Barthman story ends well with a 1995 "thank you" letter to Ron Brown from Motorola CEO Gary Tooker. "I am writing to thank you and some key members of the Commerce Department for your assistance in obtaining the Presidential waiver for encryption export sales to China," wrote Tooker in a letter that he copied to Dr. Barth. However, the Iridium story ends very badly. In 1998, the Iridium satellite phone consortium topped out at $61 a share. By late July 1999, the troubled space-phone project run by Motorola dropped to $6 a share. Nine months after its debut, Iridium went bankrupt. The space-based phone system is de-orbiting and destroying the chain of 66 operational satellites, leaving Loral's Globalstar system with a total monopoly in the market. Yet, Ron Brown's story also has a bad ending. On Feb. 6, 1996, Ron Brown met with Wang Jun, chairman of the Chinese army-owned arms company Poly Technologies. That same day, Wang also attended a White House coffee with Charlie Trie who also donated several thousand dollars to the DNC. President Clinton was host for the coffee. Trie is his old "friend" in the Clinton-Gore White House spin machine language -- with friend meaning a source of cash. Nolanda Hill testified that Beijing arms dealer Wang and Brown discussed lowering satellite export controls. She warned Brown to stay away from Wang, who travelled the globe on an official Chinese diplomatic passport. That same day, Feb. 6, 1996, President Clinton approved the launch of four more U.S. satellites on Chinese army rockets. Later in 1996, Clinton also approved the full export of Loral's Globalstar system, including a complete encrypted satellite telemetry control center to be constructed outside Beijing. In April 1996, Brown died in a trade flight to the former Yugoslavia. Sockowitz also was scheduled to fly with Secretary Brown but a last minute change forced him to miss that fatal flight. Instead, immediately after Ron Brown died Sockowitz walked out of the Commerce Department, unchecked, with over 2,000 pages of secret documents. The death of the secretary came as a blow to the criminal investigations of Ron Brown's Commerce Department. It was well known that a special prosecutor was preparing heavy evidence of corruption. Brown's death stopped that investigation just before the 1996 election. Despite the security breach, the Reno Justice Department and FBI Director Freeh decided there is no case against Sockowitz. The Commerce Department's inspector general also decided against a probe. Sockowitz claimed his reasons for taking the files were innocent and his claims were taken without question. No federal law enforcement official has ever questioned Ira Sockowitz. Related item: Sockowitz files http://www.softwar.net/socko.html ---------- Charles Smith is a national security and defense reporter for WorldNetDaily. --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)ibuc.com> The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

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None
by Robert Huddleston 27 Sep '00

27 Sep '00

believer(a)telepath.com) Subject: ip: The secret files of Ron Brown by Charles Smith http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_smith/20000927_xcsof_the_secret.shtml WorldNetDaily WEDNESDAY SEPTEMBER 27 2000 The secret files of Ron Brown by Charles Smith ---------- ) 2000 WorldNetDaily.com Wen Ho Lee is charged with removing classified material from a secure area. Despite Lee's guilty plea to a widely public and much touted case, a former Clinton appointee connected to Al Gore has admitted to far worse and walked -- without being charged or even questioned. In 1996, the former Commerce employee walked into a secure area, put classified files in a box, and then walked out the door. That former employee was Ira Sockowitz, then special general counsel at Commerce. Without authorization, he took 136 files, over 2,000 pages of highly classified materials, and simply walked away. The Sockowitz files include secret reports on cryptography from the NSA, a secret report on Russia from the CIA, secret cables from France, secret documents on U.S.-Russian space launches, even materials on U.S. efforts to purchase weapon's grade uranium from Russia. Sockowitz also had the complete biographies on foreign political leaders in Bosnia, Croatia, India, Turkey, and Russia. The CIA deemed the material so secret that it tried to seize Sockowitz's files as soon as it learned what had happened. The Sockowitz files were discovered only after an anonymous tip to the public-interest group Judicial Watch in October 1996. Judicial Watch then deposed Sockowitz, a former New York state administrative law judge. Sockowitz testified that he was an "advance person" for the 1992 Clinton-Gore campaign. He was put on the 1993 inaugural committee at the request of vice president AI Gore's office. Gore's office also approved that Sockowitz be appointed as a Commerce Department special general counsel in November 1993. At the Commerce Department, Sockowitz worked with John Huang "vetting" companies that wished to travel with Ron Brown on trade trips. John Huang is a central figure in the growing Chinagate scandal. In 1999, Huang pled guilty to illegal campaign donations to the 1996 Clinton-Gore campaign. Huang also cited his Fifth Amendment rights over 2,000 times when questioned if he was working as a spy for Chinese intelligence. One such mission vetted by Sockowitz and Huang was the now infamous 1994 trip to China. According to Nolanda Hill the Clinton-Gore White House demanded the trip take place. Hill, a former business partner and close friend of the late Commerce Secretary Ron Brown, has testified that Brown was very nervous about the deals with China. One such deal included Loral and the Chinese army. In 1994 Loral Corp. CEO Bernard Schwartz traveled to China with Ron Brown and Ira Sockowitz. Despite a failing memory on many other issues, during a Judicial Watch deposition Sockowitz claimed he did recall sitting next to Schwartz at a 1994 dinner in Beijing with Chinese officials. Sockowitz did not mention that one official sitting next to Schwartz was People's Liberation Army Lt. Gen. Shen Roujun. In 1994, Lt. Gen. Shen, was second in command at COSTIND, the Chinese Commission for Science, Technology and Industry for National Defense. COSTIND, according to the Government Accounting Office "oversees development of China's weapon systems and is responsible for identifying and acquiring telecommunications technology applicable for military use." In August 1994, Shen met and consummated a series of satellite deals with Schwartz and Loral. The Beijing meeting was requested by Schwartz, arranged by President Clinton and included Commerce Secretary Ron Brown. The technology obtained from Loral included advanced rocket guidance and encrypted satellite telemetry systems. During 1994, Shen had time to visit the United States. During that visit, his son, Shen Jun, attended a business lunch with his father and Frank Taormina of Hughes. Taormina later assisted Shen Jun in obtaining a job at Hughes. Shen Jun was hired at Hughes in August of 1994 at the same time Schwartz was visiting with his father in Beijing. It was no coincidence that a division of Space Systems/Loral was also considering hiring Shen for a position that would have allowed him access to classified information. During the August 1994 trade trip to China, Schwartz also met with Liu Ju-Yuan the minister of China Aerospace Corporation. China Aerospace makes both the civilian Long March rocket and the nuclear tipped CSS missile for the Second Artillery Corps of the Chinese army. Minister Liu is also the official boss of Chinese army Col. Liu Chao Ying. Chao contributed thousands of dollars to the DNC through convicted China-Gate figure Johnny Chung. Col. Liu's real boss, however, turned out to be Gen. Ji, the military intelligence director of the People's Liberation Army. Schwartz lobbied hard to get satellite export controls moved from State to Commerce. He has given millions to Democrats since 1992, including recent large donations to Hillary Clinton's New York senate campaign. Schwartz has also succeeded in obtaining a space monopoly. The bulk of the Sockowitz files contain information on a now-defunct U.S.-Chinese space venture called Iridium, a competitor of the Loral Globalstar project. Iridium was working with an international team of leading aerospace and electronic leaders in Russia and Red China to construct a worldwide satellite telecommunications network. In 1994, Loral and Schwartz were behind Iridium with his Globalstar project. Motorola's Iridium included Russia's Ministry of Atomics, Khrunichev Space Research and Production Space Center in Balkonur, and the China Great Wall Industry Group, a company previously sanctioned for selling M-11 nuclear tipped missiles to Pakistan. Created by Motorola in 1987, Iridium has direct ties to Ron Brown and the Democratic Party. Leo Mondale, a nephew of the former vice president, was vice president of strategic planning for Iridium. Mondale and Motorola executive Edward Staino hired four of Brown's former employees to run Iridium. All of them were former DNC fund-raisers, and all of them newly armed with high-level security clearances. Motorola also hired former White House National Security Council member Dr. Richard Barth. Dr. Barth, according to now CIA Director George Tenet, was very important to the Clinton-Gore satellite export policy. Tenet served in the 1993 White House as a national security advisor to Clinton and Gore. "Why are you leaving me?" Tenet asked Barth in a 1993 White House e-mail obtained using the Freedom of Information Act. "Do you want my job? my wife? My 1974 Camaro? This place will suck eggs without you to keep me sane." Dr. Barth was hired in 1993 by Motorola as a lobbyist for the Iridium satellite system. "Barthman" was so important to the Clinton White House that he was allowed to come back as a paid contract adviser to the White House on the very same policy he was lobbying for Motorola. In 1994, Barth requested a waiver for Motorola to export encrypted Iridium satellite radio equipment, highly sought by the Chinese military, directly to the People's Republic of China. "Such a waiver would not reduce NSA's (National Security Agency's) oversight over all encryption containing exports to China," noted Barth in the fax addressed to Tenet. "Current controls remain, only the need to notify Congress of each sale is removed. We currently have about $100 million worth of two way radio business tied up by the lack of a waiver for China and face losing a market of about $500 million. ... Finally while we now are not yet applying for licenses for encrypted systems for satellite positioning, we may within months be applying for such licenses for our Iridium systems." The Barthman story ends well with a 1995 "thank you" letter to Ron Brown from Motorola CEO Gary Tooker. "I am writing to thank you and some key members of the Commerce Department for your assistance in obtaining the Presidential waiver for encryption export sales to China," wrote Tooker in a letter that he copied to Dr. Barth. However, the Iridium story ends very badly. In 1998, the Iridium satellite phone consortium topped out at $61 a share. By late July 1999, the troubled space-phone project run by Motorola dropped to $6 a share. Nine months after its debut, Iridium went bankrupt. The space-based phone system is de-orbiting and destroying the chain of 66 operational satellites, leaving Loral's Globalstar system with a total monopoly in the market. Yet, Ron Brown's story also has a bad ending. On Feb. 6, 1996, Ron Brown met with Wang Jun, chairman of the Chinese army-owned arms company Poly Technologies. That same day, Wang also attended a White House coffee with Charlie Trie who also donated several thousand dollars to the DNC. President Clinton was host for the coffee. Trie is his old "friend" in the Clinton-Gore White House spin machine language -- with friend meaning a source of cash. Nolanda Hill testified that Beijing arms dealer Wang and Brown discussed lowering satellite export controls. She warned Brown to stay away from Wang, who travelled the globe on an official Chinese diplomatic passport. That same day, Feb. 6, 1996, President Clinton approved the launch of four more U.S. satellites on Chinese army rockets. Later in 1996, Clinton also approved the full export of Loral's Globalstar system, including a complete encrypted satellite telemetry control center to be constructed outside Beijing. In April 1996, Brown died in a trade flight to the former Yugoslavia. Sockowitz also was scheduled to fly with Secretary Brown but a last minute change forced him to miss that fatal flight. Instead, immediately after Ron Brown died Sockowitz walked out of the Commerce Department, unchecked, with over 2,000 pages of secret documents. The death of the secretary came as a blow to the criminal investigations of Ron Brown's Commerce Department. It was well known that a special prosecutor was preparing heavy evidence of corruption. Brown's death stopped that investigation just before the 1996 election. Despite the security breach, the Reno Justice Department and FBI Director Freeh decided there is no case against Sockowitz. The Commerce Department's inspector general also decided against a probe. Sockowitz claimed his reasons for taking the files were innocent and his claims were taken without question. No federal law enforcement official has ever questioned Ira Sockowitz. Related item: Sockowitz files http://www.softwar.net/socko.html ---------- Charles Smith is a national security and defense reporter for WorldNetDaily. --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)ibuc.com> The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

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CDR: Re: Shunning, lesbians and liberty (was: Re: <nettime> Rebirth of Guilds)
by Gil Hamilton 27 Sep '00

27 Sep '00

Sampo Syreeni writes: >On Mon, 25 Sep 2000, David Honig wrote: > >Exclusion harms you only if it bugs you ---you have to want to be a > >homosexual atheist boyscout for their exclusion to matter. >Non-consensual > >violence always harms. > >I do not agree. I think shunning harms you regardless, if it is organized >well enough. Say, you do something which causes your whole town to shun >you. Where do you suppose you get food, shelter, whatever from there >on? You'd say 'just leave', here, right? What if you do not have the >means? You just die? This certainly gives one good reason not to piss off one's neighbors, eh? This is of course the whole point of shunning. It is a way of getting people to behave in ways that are approved of by their community. If they do not, they risk being left to their own devices for survival. No doubt you will argue that people must be forced to provide for those who offend them, at gunpoint if necessary. >I also think I'm not totally wrong if I claim that even when the physical >necessities of life have been taken care of, social contact *can* be >essential to the survival of people raised up to be/genetically predisposed >to being social or dependent, as modern people tend to be, on the >surrounding society for survival. If this holds, shunning someone then >becomes precisely as 'violent' as physical violence. Even if psychology >isn't the hardest of sciences, it does suggest that isolation does >significantly more than simply 'bug' people. Complete bullshit. In other words, "Violence is whatever I say it is." > >No, liberty is absolute, and probably not being exercised if *someone* > >isn't offended. > >I doubt that. Besides, that someone can be offended all s/he wants, s/he >just shouldn't be allowed to do anything about it. (Except, of course, what >the freedoms of expression/thought/association/whatever guarantee.) So, people should be allowed the freedom of expression, thought and association, yet they are prohibited from shunning? You simply can't have it both ways. Either one is free to not associate with someone or they are not (in which case, their "freedom of expression and association" are nothing but lip service). > >Your suggestion to "play nice" is quaint but irrelevent when talking >about > >sovereign adults. > >I don't see it quite like that. In order to have meaningful freedoms one >needs to have the possibility of enjoying them. Even if it requires *forcing other people* to do things they don't want to do. > When someone claiming >their rights in so doing limits the rights of others, I tend to resolve the >conflict by limiting the rights themselves. In this case, demanding that >people indeed 'play nice'. People must behave exactly as you define "playing nice". Otherwise, you think they must be forced to "play nice". Clearly, you're right and everyone else is wrong and everyone else must be forced to do things your way. "Oh, but if they'll just 'play nice' then everyone is free to do as they please!" >This is precisely why freedom of thought and expression are so important >and >why they are usually thought of as inalienable - thoughts do not usually >just jump out and start killing people. They are easy to protect since >conflicts between other people's similar rights rarely arise. This is not >the case with liberties involving physical violence, property et cetera. Except somehow merely refusing to associate with someone is categorized by you as physical violence. And apparently as a shop-owner I cannot exercise rights over *my own property* if what I choose to do is inconvenient for someone else. > >Tolerance means tolerating intolerant groups. The latter-day euros >(germans > >and french esp.) don't get it. When you burn nazi literature you have >become > >them. > >I agree. But the way I see it, tolerance applies to the intangible side of >things, not the physical. I.e. you can hate and insult the somali or the >Finnish all you want and webcast as much hate speech as you want but once >you start beating people, you're off. Similarly, you have to tolerate the >speech but not the actions. In the case of our proverbial lesbians, you >have >to tolerate their 'deviant ways' and even the occasional kiss, while they >have to tolerate you speaking behind their back, insulting them and >whatever >else nasty you can do with ideas alone. What you do not have to tolerate is >a lesbian kissing you (a bit of a bad analogy since you're male), or a shop >owner throwing you out for a public display of love. The shop owner must be *forced* to tolerate behavior he doesn't approve of? What happened to his right to his own property? Must he also allow people to have sex in his shop? Or masturbate? Or curse? Or insult his customers? Or slander the shopkeeper? Or sing loudly? Which set of things must he be forced to accept? And if he throws someone out for engaging in one of these behaviors, which things will cause the Men With Guns to come and arrest *him* for "violating their right of expression"? Since food and the like are necessities of life, isn't anyone free to come in and just take whatever they like from the shop? After all, "What if you do not have the means? You just die?" No, clearly the shopkeeper would be "doing violence" to me if he tried to prevent me from taking what I need to live. >The argument of private vs. public services, I think, is a bad one - in a >society in which practically everything can be privately owned it puts the >rights of everybody in the hands of those with the dough. Against this >background your view of rights being absolute sort of dries up. Life is unfair. Get over it. Those that depend on others for their well-being or continued survival would do well to be more polite to them. If you live at home with Mommy and Daddy, then you'd better behave as they specify. Likewise, if you must rely on commerce with others for your survival, you'd better think twice about offending them. >Of course one valid attempt at resolving the problem would be to limit >private ownership of things somehow essential to the preservation of >people's liberties. I think I better not go there, right? Why not? You're already there. Whatever Sampo thinks is "fair". In Sampo's world, it's okay to force someone to provide service to those who insult them or offend them. I wonder whatever happened to *their* liberties. - GH _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com.

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CDR: Carnivore Proposal Unmasked
by John Young 27 Sep '00

27 Sep '00

Somebody noted that the overwritten portions of the Carnivore review proposal in PDF can be easily lifted: http://cryptome.org/carnivore-mask.htm Nothing secret revealed, just the names of the participants, a few home addresses and phone numbers, and their security ratings. Still, that DoJ used a pitifully weak cloaking technique is revealing of how the Carnivore intrusions of private information will be protected.

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CDR: ADV: Antique Chinese Porcelain -- The greatest auction ever held
by promo＠tek-sing.com 27 Sep '00

27 Sep '00

AFFORDABLE ANTIQUE CHINESE PORCELAIN The largest ever salvaged treasure of ANTIQUE CHINESE PORCELAIN will be auctioned off live and via the internet in November 2000. Participate in the greatest auction ever held! For further information please visit http://www.Tek-Sing.com/overview/ --- We hope that this information is of interest for you. If not so, please accept our apologies. This is a one time mailing. Anyway, we will honor removal requests and permanently remove your address from our list. Simply send a mail to mailto:remove@Tek-Sing.com

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CDR: SSCP 15:1 STOCK SPLIT! Strong Buy Recommendation
by SSCP 15:1 Stock Split 27 Sep '00

27 Sep '00

Stereoscape.com today announced that a 15:1 stock split of its common shares will be effective at the close of business on Sept.29 th. 2000. Strong Buy recomendation: Stereoscape.com,Inc. is a fully-reporting company. Has a small float of only 1.3 million shares. Up already OVER 300 % in one week. Current price- 3 3/8 Pre-split Target- 9.50 -12.00 Post-split Target-3.00 -5.00 (due to further aquisitions). Goodluck and GodBless..... We encourage everyone to do there own "Due Dilligence" before buying any stock.And to seek advice from a professional stock broker before buying or selling.

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CDR: Meth bill resurfaces on Capitol Hill
by Declan McCullagh 27 Sep '00

27 Sep '00

http://www.cluebot.com/article.pl?sid=00/09/22/0247244&mode=thread Methamphetamine Bill Resurfaces on Capitol Hill posted by cicero on Saturday September 23, @04:43AM from the accelerating-speed-bill dept. Everyone thought the Methamphetamine Anti-Proliferation Act had died this summer, but a source close to the issue tells us the Senate has resurrected this nasty bit of legislation. Among other things, the bill would ban links to drug-related websites. It didn't quite get enough momentum on its own, so some of our more censorhappy congresscritters attached it to the entirely unrelated Bankruptcy Reform Act, part of which could allow police to conduct secret searches of your home. That bill is currently before a conference committee, which has only about a week left to finish it before Congress adjourns for the year. You may want to contact your legislators before it's too late.

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CDR: Re: Meth bill resurfaces on Capitol Hill
by Anonymous 27 Sep '00

27 Sep '00

<snip> > searches of your home. That bill is currently before a conference > committee, which has only about a week left to finish it before > Congress adjourns for the year. You may want to contact your > legislators before it's too late. Yes. "contact."

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