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Welcome to Join4Free.Com
by Join4Free.Com 22 Jul '01

22 Jul '01

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RE: Killing the G8 Anarchists
by Morlock Elloi 22 Jul '01

22 Jul '01

--- Duncan Frissell <frissell(a)panix.com> wrote: > defending according to your prior post. I thought they didn't really > believe in property? You are a ... "journalist" ??? Where, pray tell, did you divine that G8 protesters "don't believe in property" ? Or did you feel in your little brain that it's just the right thing to say ? > In any case, culture is something that exists in the minds of people and in > the choices those people make every day. One can only claim to "own" a This is nonsense. *All concepts* exist in minds of people, you don't mine for ethics or culture or modular algebra. > As for the planet, a bit big to be owned at this point though people will > be able to own them later when we're richer and have access to more of > them. Though why one would want to own a gravity well is beyond me. This is sooooo deep. Did you ever had anything but wrong generalisations to say ? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

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Re: G8, issues, and familiarity
by Faustine 22 Jul '01

22 Jul '01

On Sat, 21 Jul 2001, Faustine wrote: > Jim wrote: > >CNN's poll is asking "Are you familiar with the issues behind the G8 > >summit". > >58% said "No". > >Perhaps the protesting will help motivate more to educate themselves. > True, that would be great. But how many of the remaining 42 percent > consider themselves educated, but are nevertheless content to mindlessly > repeat mickey mouse platitudes and propaganda spoon-fed to them from on > high, and who couldn't pass a rudimentary econ 101 test if their lives > depended on it? >>That's a pretty simplistic view: >>If they don't know then it's their fault for not being educated. Whose fault is it then? Anyone well-off enough to be reading CNN online hasn't got much of reason not to educate themselves. Nobody gets a free pass--I take responsibility for my own ignorance, and don't feel the need to be ashamed of it because I'm actively working to overcome it every day. Believe it or not, I went from being a high school dropout literally living on the street to a PhD student with a research job entirely on my own, with nothing to get me there but will and intelligence: why should I feel an ounce of sympathy for people with far more material advantages than I ever had who never made use of them? >>If they claim they do know then it must be platitudes and propoganda. No, I'm just disgusted with the majority of the great smug, lazy, and complacent middle class of America. I find their peculiar brand of mushheadded apathy to be beneath contempt. One of my hot buttons, I guess. > More analysis, less rhetoric. >>Analysis is rhetoric, just better organized. John von Neumann is spinning in his grave... >Lies, damn lies, statistics. Bah! How about this one: The fundamental difference between engineering with and without statistics boils down to the difference between the use of a scientific method based upon the concept of laws of nature that do not allow for chance or uncertainty and a scientific method based upon the concept of laws of probability as an attribute of nature. - W.A.Shewhart There!! :) ~Faustine.

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A new record? 18 Choategrams this morning!
by Tim May 22 Jul '01

22 Jul '01

After reading the handful of messages that made it through lne.com's filters, I double-checked my "trash" directory to see what my own filters had thrown away. Some kind of new record: 18 messages from Choate, posted during just a 2-hour period this morning. From the headers, most look to be Choategrams giving us pointers to what Yahoo or CNN make readily available. (One pulled at random: http://dailynews.yahoo.com/htx/ap/20010721/wl/summit_protests_46.html "Summit Protests Rage for Second Day") Gee, Choate, how would we know about yesterday's news, reported widely, discussed here, if you didn't pass on a pointer to Yahoo? Some would call it mail-bombing the list to disrupt it. Perhaps. But I expect it's just plain cluelessness. Some kind of "URL Tourette's Syndrome." Thank Baal for filtering tools. --Tim May -- Timothy C. May tcmay(a)got.net Corralitos, California Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go Personal: b.1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns

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Filetopia = gnutella + crypto
by Subcommander Bob 22 Jul '01

22 Jul '01

FYI: a gnutellish distrib P2P/search tool *with crypto*. For Wintel. >From its doc: Filetopia is a free communications software that includes: instant messaging, chat, e-mail, a powerful file sharing system with a search engine, online friends list and message boards. What is unique to this software is the level of security and privacy that it provides. It uses a choice of strong ciphers and public key techniques for all communications and sophisticated techniques to protect your IP and thus make you truly anonymous and safe from attacks. ..... I've been running this P2P filesharer for a few days, its quite stable and fast even on a slow, old Win95 system (unlike many other P2P tools). I have no assoc. with Filetopia

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Re: Rallies on Monday
by Reese 22 Jul '01

22 Jul '01

At 02:23 PM 7/20/01, dumbGeEk wrote: >into blowing open the Gary Condit fuck up... ) > >I mean this ass hole fucked some Intern and then killed her... Your proof that he killed her? You've shared it with the D.C. police I take it? Condit is in custody now? Or should we downgrade this fantastically strong assertion to just your wild assed guess, and send the nice young men in clean white coats after you, to check you out? >maybe I'm a >little crazy here (which I have been told oftern that I am) but that seems >a hell of a lot more important then some fucking Commie. Anyone who cannot distinguish between Russian citizens who were victims under communism and Communists deserves to be treated like a Communist. You need more than two clue pills. >Just my 2 cents (after about 12 beers...) A little crazy? No. A lot drunk. Take two aspirin with the handful of clue pills, you'll need them. Oh, this is the last time I'm going to leave your To: and Cc: includes intact. If you don't have the style, grace or courtesy to send separate emails to different lists, you deserve the hangover you should wake up with and 10,000 more all at once too. Fuckhead. Reese

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Geek Profiling Upheld by Appeals Court
by Eric Cordian 22 Jul '01

22 Jul '01

The 9th US Circuit Court of Appeals has just upheld the right of schools to suspend or expel any student who speaks or writes about fictional violence, dresses differently, has a "disturbing" background, or "fits the profile" of a "homicidal student." The 9th circuit is supposed to be the liberal one, right? ----- SAN FRANCISCO (AP) -- A Washington state school district acted appropriately when it suspended a student for submitting a poem about a fictitious campus mass murder, a federal appeals court ruled Friday. The decision from the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals overturned a lower court's ruling that the high school was wrong to suspend James LaVine, a 16-year-old junior, for 17 school days in 1998. LaVine submitted his poem, ''Last Words,'' to be critiqued by his English instructor at his school about 100 miles north of Seattle. Among the violent imagery was the phrase, ''I drew my gun and . . . Bang, Bang, Bang-Bang. When it was all over, 28 were, dead.'' In ordering the suspension, the school district had said LaVine had a ''disturbing'' background, dressed differently and ''fit the profile'' of a homicidal student. The student's attorney, Breean Beggs, said the court's decision could chill students' First Amendment right to free speech and give educators leverage to punish students for their ideas. ''I was hoping to have it made clear that students cannot be punished for the content of their work,'' Beggs said. The appeals panel said while the poem viewed by itself is protected speech, the school district had a right to suspend LaVine on fears he may have carried out what he had written. ''Parents and the public expect schools to protect their children and that is getting more and more difficult in modern times,'' said Tyna Ek, the lawyer for school district. ''This says that schools can act when there are danger signals.'' The circuit panel noted that, in hindsight, it may not have been necessary to expel the student -- given that it was later determined he had no violent intentions. Still, the court said, schools need to react to the potential for such violence. LaVine, who is now 19 and graduated last year, said he didn't know why he wrote the poem. ''When I write, I just get a feeling. Whatever comes out, comes out,'' LaVine said. ''There's not really any reason behind why I wrote it.'' -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"

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RE: Killing the G8 Anarchists,
by Faustine 22 Jul '01

22 Jul '01

On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Faustine wrote: Jim wrote: > Speaking for myself, I'm not "owned" by anyone. I obey state and federal > laws though, if that's what you mean. >>Even when they're unconstitutional I bet... >>Some American. ..so does this mean you're going to be the first to share with the readership exactly *which* state and federal laws you break on a regular basis? LOL ridiculous. > You don't need a gun to enforce ownership, what do you think contract and property law is all about. >>Which is worthless without the explicit and well advertised threat of >>violence. See G8 demonstrations today for a explicit example. "all power flows from the barrel of a gun?" Maybe so. But most people who sign contracts are more motivated by the threat of lawsuits, jail and fines than the direct threat of violence. > Sometimes words or a fist do just as well... What any of this has to do > with supporting the 2nd Amendment right to bear arms is totally unclear. >>See G8 today. Nothing I see there really points to personal disarmament being a wise course of action. > By the way, why don't you think people have a right to defend their own > lives and property? >Don't the people demonstrating have a right to defend their lives and >property? Absolutely, no doubt about it. So how does it follow that this somehow makes it okay to harm other people and destroy their property without being held accountable for it by the people themselves? Legitimate protest is one thing, but the problem is, people who are out to "fuck shit up" aren't too discriminate about their targets. If your business was in the middle of a riot zone, would you just choose the "roll over and die" option? Somehow I think not. >>Their claim is it is being abused and destroyed. There are too many disparate groups under the umbrella of "anti- globalization" to be able to sum it up into a single claim like that. Abused and destroyed? What, how, when, by whom? How can you hope to make policy around some vague generalization. More analysis, less rhetoric. >>Where is >>their spokesperson at the G8? Where is there forum? That's what NGOs are for. There are some interesting books about their growing importance and the role of technology in making it happen that are really encouraging...have you seen a book by David Ronfeldt and John Arquilla called "The Zapatista Social Netwar in Mexico"? I don't know if you can get a online copy somewhere but it's worth a look. > When I'm attacked, why shouldn't I fight back? >>Hypocrite. >>Freedom for me, not for thee... Where did that come from, I believe 100% in the right to be left alone. Anyone on this earth can do whatever they want, but attack me and be prepared to PAY: what could be more honest and straightforward than that. It's just insane to expect people to put themselves at the mercy of anyone who comes along: what are you really saying here, feel free to fill me in! A great place to start might be defining "anti-globalism", the reasons behind the need for violent indiscriminate protest, and how any of that bears a relation to the second amendment. Sheesh... ~Faustine.

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State appeals court says ignorance no defense in wiretapping
by Declan McCullagh 22 Jul '01

22 Jul '01

http://www.sunspot.net/news/printedition/bal-ar.deibler18jul18.story?coll=b… 2001-07-18 05:35:39 Court boosts taping laws Appeals judges say ignorance no defense in wiretapping cases; 'Willfully' is key word; Decision stems from surveillance of Edgewater home By Andrea F. Siegel Sun Staff July 18, 2001 In a decision that will benefit prosecutors, the state's highest court ruled yesterday that a person need not know it is illegal to bug conversations to be convicted of wiretapping. The 5-2 Court of Appeals opinion sets aside what had been the prevailing interpretation, in which the lower appellate court said a person who violates the state wiretapping law must know that what he did was illegal. The standard in yesterday's ruling says a defendant can be convicted if the wiretap was done on purpose, not inadvertently. ...

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Killing the G8 Anarchists
by Tim May 22 Jul '01

22 Jul '01

I've watched this list with bemusement as several of you have cheered on the G8 "Anti-Globalist" black-shirted twentysomethings. Watching the street riots in Genoa on CNN, watching the supermarkets and gas stations being torched and vandalized, all I can think is this: WHY AREN'T THE OWNERS OF THESE PROPERTIES DEFENDING THEIR PROPERTY? Why are't shop owners spraying the looters with automatic weapons fire? Because, of course, Europeans are disarmed. Not like our Korean and white merchants in L.A., who used shotguns and AR-15s to kill the blacks and Mexicans who tried to burn down their stores. The property-destroying "anarchists" are giving anarchy a bad name. Seems to me that killing several dozen of them would send a good message. --Tim May -- Timothy C. May tcmay(a)got.net Corralitos, California Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go Personal: b.1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns

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