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Faith Groups Respond To "Attack On America"
by FaithandValues.com 12 Sep '01

12 Sep '01

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Coordination, maximizing terror, hypotheses (fwd)
by Eugene Leitl 12 Sep '01

12 Sep '01

-- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://www.lrz.de/~ui22204/">leitl</a> ______________________________________________________________ ICBMTO : N48 10'07'' E011 33'53'' http://www.lrz.de/~ui22204 57F9CFD3: ED90 0433 EB74 E4A9 537F CFF5 86E7 629B 57F9 CFD3 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 10:49:13 -0500 From: Jeff Bone <jbone(a)jump.net> To: Robert S. Thau <rst(a)ai.mit.edu>, fork(a)xent.com Subject: Coordination, maximizing terror, hypotheses * The timing of the WTC attacks is extraordinary, and points not only to a high degree of coordination but also to a keen sensibility in planning the mission. Consider: if both planes had hit the buildings simultaneously, there would've been very little footage of the second attack. Too little time between the attacks and there would've been less coverage and no real-time horror; too much time and the alert status might've been such that the second collision could be prevented. * The targeting of the second attack may be a subtle pointer to state involvement. I understand that the part of the Pentagon that was hit houses the nerve center for the Army's worldwide logistics command. It appears that this part of the building was intentionally targeted, as the plane apparently performed an overshoot-and-return maneuver in order to line up with the south side of the building, whereas it could've gone into the opposite side with no such maneuver. A small, highly-mobile group of perps wouldn't be concerned about damaging the Army's logistical capability, as any retaliation would like be air-based or, if ground-based, a smaller strike squad with separate / minimal logistical concerns. Crippling Army logistics might have been a strategic consideration designed to minimize the ability to mount an immediate, large-scale, ground-based response with traditional forces. Further speculation: this may point away from Afghanistan / Taliban involvement and more towards Iraq or Iran, for the reasons noted earlier re: the difficulty of mounting a ground-based invasion of Afghanistan. * Our own forces may have shot down the plane over Pennsylvania. Dick Armey was giving an interview last night, and after being asked leading questions by Wolf Blitzer he started making comments about being given a classified briefing with information specifically about that plane. The interview was then censored, with sound edited out for about 30 seconds. I think this could well be an "open secret" that the media has been let in on but gagged about in order to minimize public backlash / confusion. Other indications also exist, in the news that's coming out about where and when fighters were scrambled. This is clearly speculative, but a possibiliity. http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork

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Re: The 4th Airliner Shot Down?
by John Young 12 Sep '01

12 Sep '01

Choate wrote: >There was also several eye witnesses that said the first tower was hit by >a missile... I watched on TV a guided missile hit the second tower; this was replayed again and again. Then I saw Kallstrom on TV saying there was no missile, but that "we knew it was not if but when." Though he said "we didn't foresee it exactly this way." I changed my TV-eye-witness testimony immediately, never saw a missile exploding inside the tower. What I saw were two tall buildings collapsing exactly the way intended, without identifiable cause. CIA is working on reenactment that will show there was no lack of intelligence, no reason to suspect anything other than an accident, despite the ususal paranoid ravings. Why, for example, would jet-qualified pilots become involved in terrorist actions? Bin Laden had a jet pilot, trained in the US, who ferried bin Laden's jet from the US to Sudan. After a while he tried to quit the job but a Bin Laden aide threatened the pilot's family. The pilot pondered that then went to the US Embassy to cut a deal to confess what he knew in exchange for getting a new life in the US. We know from the Egypt air crash that some pilots are cooperatively suicidal when their families are at risk.

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by Garnet Jackson 12 Sep '01

12 Sep '01

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FC: FBI pushes Carnivore on network providers after attacks (fwd)
by Eugene Leitl 12 Sep '01

12 Sep '01

-- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://www.lrz.de/~ui22204/">leitl</a> ______________________________________________________________ ICBMTO : N48 10'07'' E011 33'53'' http://www.lrz.de/~ui22204 57F9CFD3: ED90 0433 EB74 E4A9 537F CFF5 86E7 629B 57F9 CFD3 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 10:17:03 -0400 From: Declan McCullagh <declan(a)well.com> To: politech(a)politechbot.com Subject: FC: FBI pushes Carnivore on network providers after attacks http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,46747,00.html Anti-Attack Feds Push Carnivore By Declan McCullagh (declan(a)wired.com) 2:00 a.m. Sep. 12, 2001 PDT WASHINGTON -- Federal police are reportedly increasing Internet surveillance after Tuesday's deadly attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. Just hours after three airplanes smashed into the buildings in what some U.S. legislators have dubbed a second Pearl Harbor, FBI agents began to visit Web-based, e-mail firms and network providers, according to engineers at those companies who spoke on condition of anonymity. An administrator at one major network service provider said that FBI agents showed up at his workplace on Tuesday "with a couple of Carnivores, requesting permission to place them in our core, along with offers to actually pay for circuits and costs." [...] Microsoft's Hotmail service has also been the target of increased federal attention, according to an engineer who works there. "Hotmail officials have been receiving calls from the San Francisco FBI office since mid-(Tuesday) morning and are cooperating with their expedited requests for information about a few specific accounts," the person said. "Most of the account names start with the word 'Allah' and contain messages in Arabic." [...] ------------------------------------------------------------------------- POLITECH -- Declan McCullagh's politics and technology mailing list You may redistribute this message freely if you include this notice. Declan McCullagh's photographs are at http://www.mccullagh.org/ To subscribe to Politech: http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html This message is archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------

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12 Sep '01

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RE: Manhattan Mid-Afternoon
by dmolnar 12 Sep '01

12 Sep '01

On Wed, 12 Sep 2001, Sunder wrote: > I'd still fucking rush them if I had been there. If anything it would > wake everyone else up to do the same. I'd like to think I would have, but honestly I don't know. Also, if the first rusher is killed, that acts as a negative example for the others. The scene from "Sunshine" where Fiennes is berated for standing aside and watching his father die keeps coming back. Keep in mind that the hostages likely did not know the terrorists were planning to down the plane. For all they knew, they were going to be exchanged for prisoners in Israeli jails. By the time it became clear what was going to happen (if it ever did), it might have been too late. Then it's not "my life vs 20,000" but "my life vs squat if they kill me and retain control." -David

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SIG: Linux Today - Ideas: The SSSCA and its potential effects
by Jim Choate 12 Sep '01

12 Sep '01

http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-09-11-011-20-OP-HW-SW -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ natsugusa ya...tsuwamonodomo ga...yume no ato summer grass...those mighty warriors'...dream-tracks Matsuo Basho The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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Report: Five Suspects Identified in NYC Attack
by Jim Choate 12 Sep '01

12 Sep '01

http://us.news2.yimg.com/f/42/31/7m/dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010912/ts/at… -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ natsugusa ya...tsuwamonodomo ga...yume no ato summer grass...those mighty warriors'...dream-tracks Matsuo Basho The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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The 4th Airliner Shot Down?
by John Young 12 Sep '01

12 Sep '01

Somebody who claims to be from inside the Pentagon is saying an F16 shot down the airliner that crashed in Pennsylvania. Are there news reports of this? Also that a number of generals were killed in the Pentagon. Any news of this?

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