- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

Will the real Stealth Technology Please Stand-up ?
by afbrown＠bellatlantic.net 13 Sep '01

13 Sep '01

Despite billions spent on stealth technology, expensive spy satellites and planes, secret listening post throughout the world , Echelon and Carnivore. It seem inconceivable that an terrorist operation of this magnitude could be planned, setup over the course of 1 year and executed with precision without the intelligence community having a clue. Now that the country's defense and intelligence spending has been exaggerated in the wrong direction for so long. Maybe good old fashion human intelligence is more secure than once thought.?? This swiss-cheese National defense system lacks imagination, is based solely upon pasted events and will ultimately prompt future attacks. Chance favors the prepared mind.

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Re: RE: Manhattan Mid-Afternoon
by Samuli Suonpaa 13 Sep '01

13 Sep '01

Peter Trei <ptrei(a)rsasecurity.com> wrote: > Bill Stewart[SMTP:bill.stewart@pobox.com] wrote >> And even then, Swedish president Palme was assassinated some years >> ago. [...] > He was far from merely a Swedish president. Quite true. He was Swedish prime-minister, there is no president in _Kingdom_ of Sweden. But I do agree with you in that what happened to Palme is more accurately characterized as an assassination, not as a terrorist act. Suonpää...

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PC HomeWorker
by wdhlyj6＠yahoo.com 13 Sep '01

13 Sep '01

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Re: RE: Manhattan Mid-Afternoon
by Normen Nomesco 13 Sep '01

13 Sep '01

>I'm 100% positive that a single armed terrorist with the best training in >the world would perish within seconds at the hands of 50+ such businessmen >before taking out more than several victims. To understand this, you must >think as they did. Then how come 84 unarmed people could not take aproximatly 4 people armed with razor blades. Agh, I see it, they didn't have guns. Shit 10 kids could probably rush and take an adult armed with a knife, if they rushed him. At least one terrorist was flying, so what thats 84 people against 3 armed with exacto razor blades? Bullshit, they had knives and sharp instruments. No matter how well >trained a killer is, he is no match for odds like 120 to 4 against. How about odds of 20 to 1 with the one having a knife.... ---

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Re: MARTIAL LAW Cypherpunks and terrorism
by Declan McCullagh 13 Sep '01

13 Sep '01

On Wed, Sep 12, 2001 at 08:06:14PM -0400, baptista(a)pccf.net wrote: > so far i have not figured that one out. sure arabs are dancing in the > street - their happy - poor arafat was doing penance today by giving > blood. and i understand the japanese red army is also being blamed for > this. but all these claims so far amount to little frills here and their > to enhance the show. i have yet to receive a clear explaination on what > drove these people to do this tragedy. You appear to be making the mistake of listening to American broadcast media, and expecting it to tell you that answer, rather than looking for the answer yourself. http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/dailynews/terror_980609.html -Declan

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RE: Manhattan Mid-Afternoon
by Alfred Qeada 13 Sep '01

13 Sep '01

At 12:33 AM 9/12/01 -0400, Sunder wrote: >I'd still fucking rush them if I had been there. If anything it would >wake everyone else up to do the same. No, you *wouldn't* have *before* ---you'd expect to land and hang out for a while. Rather exotic for an American, but it happens. But now, of course, there'd be fucking entrails on the windows if a few swarthies pulled that now in a plane full of Quaker girl scouts. .... Nuke Yemen but don't treat Palestinian arabs like American Indians...

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Squaring the Libertarian Circle
by Howie Goodell 13 Sep '01

13 Sep '01

(sorry if this repeats; I posted it yesterday but didn't see it.) Yesterday's terrorist attacks could easily result in the greatest assaults on freedom and privacy in America since McCarthyism. However they also represent an opportunity. My interest in crypto dates to David Chaum's August 1992 _Scientific American_ article, "Achieving Electronic Privacy". In it he offered a choice between two patterns in which to pour the concrete of digital society: base it on identifying everyone, or on anonymous crypto credentials using his blind signature algorithm. The first pattern is more obvious but destroys privacy and freedom; the second can offer the same benefits while enhancing them. Since 1992 we have traveled far down the first path, and yesterday's events may ratchet us many steps further unless we offer a convincing alternative. It is simple: yes, we could make our society much safer from terrorism by giving police Gestapo surveillance authority, but Americans will not tolerate it: you will end up with some compromise that is only half-secure (as well as half-free.) Here are protocols for much better security. They involve private information, but people will accept them because they require the minimum loss of privacy. What should we propose? This group may be the world's best source. Better think fast, though; so we can offer them widely before alternatives are rammed down our throats. A few ideas to get the ball rolling: Active privacy protection: Collect the information a zealous G-man or Gestapo craves - fingerprints, DNA, dossier, phone logs, etc., but encrypt and untraceably divide it through remailers in locations chosen randomly by input from me and those collecting it. As long as I keep regularly anonymously authenticating myself, the pieces can neither be located to destroy or compromise them, or reunited. If my transmissions stop for some period, say because I blew myself up in a suicide attack, the different providers send their pieces to the authorities and the game is up. I can assign a digital Power of Attorney or inheritance for others to maintain my privacy when I can't, but, if a grand jury investigating the plane I hijacked publicly and legally indicts or subpoenas me (or the alias under which I bought my plane ticket), they can broadcast a code that retrieves some or all the data. However their actual locations are unknown: if I set it up that way, after some interval they also send it to my lawyer, a selection of newspapers, etc. Un-auditable taps: Record full taps of all telephone and email conversations. Encrypt with multiple keys and/or divide the bits and store with redundancy and active privacy protection in multiple locations through remailers, as before. The conversation may only continue while the recording is anonymously proven to be occurring. During the statutory storage period, the providers anonymously check one another, and regenerate in a new randomly chosen location if one provider disappears. On the statutory expiration date, all the pieces do. Watchdog timer: Like the processor in a control system, the computers of a jet require regular interaction with their assigned, authenticated, and conscious pilot. Otherwise they announce his incapacity to the world, and hand themselves over to remote control from an authenticated ground controller. (Not necessarily blinded, but included because topical.) Also, I have a few more related older ideas on my website below. Good luck! Howie Goodell -- Howie Goodell hgoodell(a)cs.uml.edu Pr SW Eng, WearLogic Sc.D. Cand HCI Res Grp CS Dept U Massachussets Lowell http://people.ne.mediaone.net/goodell/howie Dying is soooo 20th-century! http://www.cryonics.org

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Re: The 4th Airliner Shot Down?
by Alfred Qeada 12 Sep '01

12 Sep '01

At 11:29 PM 9/11/01 -0700, John Young wrote: > >We know from the Egypt air crash that some pilots are >cooperatively suicidal when their families are at risk. Lucky John, who has never known the depths which might lead men to suicide, expecting no martyrdom or message, just relief. May your struts never fold, your ties never sever.

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RE: Manhattan Mid-Afternoon
by Lucky Green 12 Sep '01

12 Sep '01

Sunder wrote: -------------- What pisses me off is that these fuckers managed to hiijack four planes by using nothing but knives. How the fuck could a bunch of guys do that? Nobody fought back? Nobody charged at them? [...] If they had any sense, they'd have everyone on the plane carry guns. The second anyone tried anything, everyone would be able to stop them in seconds. -------------- Which of course represents the crux of the issue. The passengers aboard the aircraft, the workers in the towers, and the emergency personnel on the ground are dead for two reasons: the US unreasonably meddling in other People's affairs until they crack, and the extremist gun control measures in place in the US today, preventing law-abiding citizens from carrying the firearm of their choice aboard a commercial aircraft. Who could deny that a few citizens armed with their personal handguns could have stopped two or three of guys armed with mere box cutters? The nasty truth is that the tragic events of the day were to a large degree caused by the victim disarmament policies of Diane Feinstein, Sarah Brady, Chuck Schumer, and the many, many local, state, and federal proponents of gun control. I hope they are happy. Not that I have any doubt that they will be delighted, since today's tragedy will undoubtedly give them additional excuses to turn more of us into helpless victims, ready to fall prey to crazies with box cutters and politicians with a pathological desire to feel "needed". The public will applaud. ... Or will it this time? --Lucky

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Re: Bombings, Surveillance, and Free Societies
by casey.iverson＠hushmail.com 12 Sep '01

12 Sep '01

At 02:22 PM 9/12/01 , Tim May spouts: >Personally, while I feel sorry for the dead in Israel, I think anyone who >moves to a small desert state surrounded on all sides by Arabs who want >their land back is asking for trouble. Tim May is as sincere about his sorrow for the dead in Israel as Arafat and the Taliban are about the dead in NYC and DC. Sorry Tim, not all dead in Washington, only a couple of hundred. Well maybe next time.

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