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Autoclaving the mail
by Tim May 17 Oct '01

17 Oct '01

On Wednesday, October 17, 2001, at 11:15 AM, Trei, Peter wrote: >> Harmon Seaver[SMTP:hseaver@cybershamanix.com] wrote: >> >> >> I'm not understanding the comments about wetness affecting mail >> in a pressure cooker -- using it as an autoclave, that is. I would >> assume anyone doing this would put the perishable objects in a >> waterproof container, such as a canning jar. You can get them in 1/2 >> gallon size. And I'm sure there are any number of steel, aluminum, etc. >> waterproof containers that would work as well. >> >> Harmon Seaver, MLIS >> > The whole point of an autoclave is that the superheated steam and > condesing superheated water drops transfer heat to the target faster > than simple hot air at 1 atm. I disagree. While autoclaves and pressure cookers/canners do indeed "heat faster," the main purpose is not speeding up the heating. Rather, it is in getting the temperature to 240 F or higher, the temperature required to kill organisms which are not killed at mere boiling water temperatures. And, secondarily, in getting the temperature in all the various nooks and crannies of instruments. (In this part, I agree that "heating faster" is important...but it's only a secondary issue, and of no practical importance for the "autoclaving the mail" proposal: one just leaves the mail in the autoclave or pressure canner for another couple of minutes, thus compensating for any slight lag time in heating.) In a pressure canner, this 240 F temp is needed to prevent botulism in low-acid foods (meats, some vegetables). High-acid foods like jams and jellies and fruits can be canned in ordinary boiling water. > > Putting the material to be sterilized in a waterproof container defeats > this goal. Putting it in a pressure tight container such as a canning > jar is doubley futile - either the superheated steam and water won't > get to the material to be sterilized, or the container will fail > catastrophically. Not that I am endorsing this idea, but the contents of a sealed container will _still_ see the internal 240 F temperature (albeit with some small thermal lag, depending on construction, thermal mass, etc.). Papers inside a sealed metal foil package, for example, without insulation in the foil, will reach the ambient temperature (240 F) pretty quickly. It is not necessary for the steam to touch the material being sterilized. --Tim May "Gun Control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her panty hose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound"

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Anodyne for sore feet
by keyser-soze＠hushmail.com 17 Oct '01

17 Oct '01

All that recent stepping on our civil liberties must have left more than a few of our Congressmen with tender feet. I say we send them some Dr. Scholls relief.

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Re: [NEWS] FBI To Require ISPs To Reconfigure E-mail Systems (fwd)
by Gil Hamilton 17 Oct '01

17 Oct '01

Bill Stewarts forwarded: >HEADLINE: PRIVACY: FBI To Require ISPs To Reconfigure E-mail Systems >Such a stance could result in considerable cost to many ISPs, and it >would constitute a reversal of previous government policy, which held >that ISPs are not subject to CALEA's requirements. But Baker also said >"it has been a long-term goal of the FBI and is not just a reaction to >Sept. 11." Nobody doubts that! Sept. 11 merely provided the opportunity for the slimy power-hungry control freaks to take advantage of the unprincipled and weak-willed. No surprises here; Sept. 11 has been a wet dream for the Fibbies. >"Under the cover of people's outrage [over the terrorist attacks] and >desire for revenge, lots of things that have been defeated before have >been brought back in [to the anti-terrorism legislation] without a >demonstration that the lack of appropriate law is a problem," Kapor >said in an interview. But on the whole, Kapor and Baker shared more >common ground on the acceptability of new electronic surveillance than >they had in the past, with both expressing the view that now is a time >for calm reconsideration of positions rather than butting horns over >the details of how civil liberties would be curtailed by an >anti-terrorism bill. In other words: "Baby, this won't hurt that much if you'll just lay back and quit fighting it." So it turns out that Kapor's just another fucking toady, ready to suck his thumb and let Big Brother take care of him. >"I find myself more in the middle than I used to because my identity >in life is not as a civil liberties advocate," Kapor said. "Part is >being an American and a world citizen." I'm really sick of hearing all these digerati -- that used to [claim to] support civil liberties -- now ready to bend over and spread 'em for the Feds. This simply goes to show that they Never Had Any Fucking Principles To Begin With. They were just playing the part, trying to look cool and hang out with the other trendy celebrities espousing trendy liberal positions. If one actually had principles, one would have thought about the possibility of a large scale terrorist attack long before it happened, and have allowed for it in their world view and their political philosophy. >"What has changed [since Sept. 11] is the view of the technology >community," Baker said. "I used to get calls like, 'How can I beat the >NSA?'" said Baker. "Now, people call and say, 'I have this great idea >that would help NSA,' or, 'I want to go volunteer and do outreach on >behalf of the FBI or NSA.' There is a real change of people's view >about who the bad guys are." At least you know where Baker stands. And it ain't on the side of liberty! (I *would* like to know why an ISP would hire Baker to represent them when FBI is asking them to conduct electronic surveillance; that seems a bit like asking the fox to help guard the henhouse.) - GH _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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DOJ "background briefing" on Emerson gun case today
by Matthew Gaylor 17 Oct '01

17 Oct '01

Matt -. You didn't get this from me. [Note from Matt Gaylor: Get this from who?] FOR PLANNING PURPOSES ONLY - NOT FOR RELEASE AG WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 17, 2001 (202) 616-2777 TDD (202) 514-1888 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE TO HOLD BACKGROUND BRIEFING REGARDING THE EMERSON CASE WASHINGTON, D.C. - Department of Justice officials will hold a background briefing regarding yesterday's 5th Circuit decision in the Emerson case TODAY, Wednesday, October 17 at 2:00 p.m. WHAT: Background briefing with DOJ officials WHEN:TODAY, Wednesday,October17, 2:00pm WHERE:Department of Justice Public Affairs Conference Room Room 1254 950 Pennsylvania Ave, NW Washington, DC 20530 ### 01-539 ************************************************************************** Subscribe to Freematt's Alerts: Pro-Individual Rights Issues Send a blank message to: freematt(a)coil.com with the words subscribe FA on the subject line. List is private and moderated (7-30 messages per week) Matthew Gaylor, (614) 313-5722 ICQ: 106212065 Archived at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fa/ **************************************************************************

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RE: ChefPunks
by Trei, Peter 17 Oct '01

17 Oct '01

> Harmon Seaver[SMTP:hseaver@cybershamanix.com] wrote: > > > I'm not understanding the comments about wetness affecting mail > in a pressure cooker -- using it as an autoclave, that is. I would > assume anyone doing this would put the perishable objects in a > waterproof container, such as a canning jar. You can get them in 1/2 > gallon size. And I'm sure there are any number of steel, aluminum, etc. > waterproof containers that would work as well. > > Harmon Seaver, MLIS > The whole point of an autoclave is that the superheated steam and condesing superheated water drops transfer heat to the target faster than simple hot air at 1 atm. Putting the material to be sterilized in a waterproof container defeats this goal. Putting it in a pressure tight container such as a canning jar is doubley futile - either the superheated steam and water won't get to the material to be sterilized, or the container will fail catastrophically. Autoclaving ain't for delicate materials. Irradiation would be a better bet. Anthrax spores are (so I've heard) pretty sensitive to UV, so ionizing radiation may not be neccesary. Peter Trei

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[NEWS] FBI To Require ISPs To Reconfigure E-mail Systems (fwd)
by Bill Stewart 17 Oct '01

17 Oct '01

David Lesher <wb8foz(a)NRK.COM> sent the following to CYBERIA-L(a)LISTSERV.AOL.COM ------------------- National Journal's Technology Daily PM Edition October 16, 2001 HEADLINE: PRIVACY: FBI To Require ISPs To Reconfigure E-mail Systems PHOENIX -- The FBI is in the process of finalizing technical guidelines that would require all Internet service providers (ISPS) to reconfigure their e-mail systems so they could be more easily accessible to law enforcers. The move, to be completed over the next two months, would cause ISPs to act as phone companies do to comply with a 1994 digital-wiretapping law. "They are in the process of developing a very detailed set of standards for how to make packet data" available to the FBI, said Stewart Baker, an attorney at Steptoe & Johnson who was formerly the chief counsel to the National Security Agency (NSA). The proposal is not a part of the anti-terrorism legislation currently before Congress because the agency is expected to argue that the Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act (CALEA) already grants it the authority to impose the requirement, Baker said. He added that some ISPs already meet the requirements. Baker, who frequently represents Internet companies being asked to conduct electronic surveillance for the FBI, made the revelation Tuesday in a panel discussion at the Agenda 2002 conference here on how the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks are likely to affect the technology industry and civil liberties. He elaborated on the plan in an interview. Such a stance could result in considerable cost to many ISPs, and it would constitute a reversal of previous government policy, which held that ISPs are not subject to CALEA's requirements. But Baker also said "it has been a long-term goal of the FBI and is not just a reaction to Sept. 11." Mitchell Kapor, chairman of the Open Source Application Foundation and a founder of Lotus Development, also spoke on the panel. Kapor also started the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) and has been a vocal advocate of Internet privacy. EFF played a significant role in the CALEA debate, and divisions over whether to support that law led to a split of the organization. "Under the cover of people's outrage [over the terrorist attacks] and desire for revenge, lots of things that have been defeated before have been brought back in [to the anti-terrorism legislation] without a demonstration that the lack of appropriate law is a problem," Kapor said in an interview. But on the whole, Kapor and Baker shared more common ground on the acceptability of new electronic surveillance than they had in the past, with both expressing the view that now is a time for calm reconsideration of positions rather than butting horns over the details of how civil liberties would be curtailed by an anti-terrorism bill. "I find myself more in the middle than I used to because my identity in life is not as a civil liberties advocate," Kapor said. "Part is being an American and a world citizen." Baker said it was entirely appropriate for the FBI to conduct far more surveillance. "What has changed [since Sept. 11] is the view of the technology community," Baker said. "I used to get calls like, 'How can I beat the NSA?'" said Baker. "Now, people call and say, 'I have this great idea that would help NSA,' or, 'I want to go volunteer and do outreach on behalf of the FBI or NSA.' There is a real change of people's view about who the bad guys are." . -- A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz(a)nrk.com & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433 ********************************************************************** For Listserv Instructions, see http://www.lawlists.net/cyberia Off-Topic threads: http://www.lawlists.net/mailman/listinfo/cyberia-ot Need more help? Send mail to: Cyberia-L-Request(a)listserv.aol.com **********************************************************************

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bin Laden stoned (attn: JYA CARTOME)
by Khoder bin Hakkin 17 Oct '01

17 Oct '01

Tuesday, Oct. 16, 2001 Geologist: I Know Where bin Laden Is University of Nebraska-Omaha geologist Jack Shroder says he knows where terrorist kingpin Osama bin Laden is hiding. Shroder, who has done research in Afghanistan, says he recognized rock formations shown in the taped remarks bin Laden made after the U.S. bombing began 10 days ago, United Press International reported today. Shroder said while he was watching the bin Laden tape, "I turned to my wife and told her I know where he is." He told the Omaha World-Herald he has received calls about the tape but would not say whether any were from the federal government. He said the type of rock seen in the tape is found in only two provinces, Paktia and Paktika, about 125 miles from Kabul. The area, he said, is riddled with caves and controlled by the Pushtuns, one of five ethnic groups vying for control of Afghanistan. from http://www.newsmax.com/showinside.shtml?a=2001/10/16/135326 but original at omaha news, being slashdotted by drudge currently.

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Larry Ellison's ID card idea attracts high-level support
by Matthew Gaylor 17 Oct '01

17 Oct '01

[Note from Matthew Gaylor: Considering that the show your papers routine had already been implemented complete with yellow Star of David armbands, I'm one civil libertarian who will never "come around".] <http://www0.mercurycenter.com/local/center/id101701.htm> Posted at 10:53 p.m. PDT Tuesday, Oct. 16, 2001 ID card idea attracts high-level support Top executives, lawmakers back national identification card proposal BY ELISE ACKERMAN AND PAUL ROGERS Mercury News Silicon Valley software mogul Larry Ellison's proposal to create a national ID card has gained substantial ground -- and the interest of top Bush administration officials -- in a signal that the controversial idea may be closer to reality than ever. In an interview with the Mercury News on Tuesday night, Ellison, the chairman and CEO of Oracle, said he met with U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft and officials at the CIA and FBI in Washington, D.C., over the past week to discuss the idea. U.S. Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., has endorsed it, other tech executives have jumped on board and even some prominent civil libertarians have said the idea is worth pursuing. [...] ``You don't give up much,'' Dershowitz said. ``Civil libertarians will come around.'' [...] ************************************************************************** Subscribe to Freematt's Alerts: Pro-Individual Rights Issues Send a blank message to: freematt(a)coil.com with the words subscribe FA on the subject line. List is private and moderated (7-30 messages per week) Matthew Gaylor, (614) 313-5722 ICQ: 106212065 Archived at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fa/ **************************************************************************

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Anonymity in America: Does National Security Preclude It?
by Steve Schear 17 Oct '01

17 Oct '01

"Anonymity in America: Does National Security Preclude It?" <http://www.cato.org/tech/tk/011011-tk.html> steve

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Re: More on "venus rising"
by Anonymous User 17 Oct '01

17 Oct '01

> On Sun, Oct 14, 2001 at 10:40:40AM -0700, Tim May wrote: > > stuff about zero point energy and perpetual motion machines. And, > > sometimes, mixed together with the usual nutcase stuff about the > > Hollow Earth theory (zeta reticulans colonizing the hollow > > earth, Greys, underground UFO bases, secret Nazi weapons, etc.). > > Righto. It's a staple of the UFO fringe. See: > > And then there was this, which I wrote 2.5 years ago. Some folks, > including I believe Tim, said at the time that I was being too > uncritical, and looking back, they was right. It's a little painful > to read; at the very least I should have reversed the order of the > article. You do realise, that this is what the ufo field is about? +Sightings And Encounters and the influence this has had on our planet. -Not free energy devices and dead alien bodies. Roswell isn't a story of a simple metal box landing, retrieval and the obvious cover-up. It's extra much more. A mind game with unknown players and an unseen goal. The stains on Monicas dress could very well be evidence of sexual conduct, but our unknown players here have some serious washing powder. You can't cover this with Politics and Technology. You can not expect Warner Brothers and Fox to be able to portray these events. But if they do, you realise that you haven't seen this in Politics and Technology and the subject matter is so not of your kin that you will consider it to be just another movie. You have my permission to investigate further, mr Corso: Then you say, this guy has been watching way too much xfiles, even though men in black and chupacabras and what have you, existed long before they were the subject of television shows. And that is one of the reasons why this thick field leads to unwarranted assumptions. We want easy answers, but we aren't getting any. Neither from the ufos nor from the government/media nor from any serious ufo thinkers. There are no easy answers in this field and does that bother you? If it does, good, because it should. You guys always speak of the sheep. Well what kind of sheep has an unknown object hovering above it while shouting look ma - Venus!

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