- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

Re: America the Damned
by Nomen Nescio 09 Nov '01

09 Nov '01

http://law2.house.gov/uscode-cgi/fastweb.exe?getdoc+uscview+t17t20+1050+18+… U.S. Code Title 18, Chapter 115: Sec. 2384. Seditious conspiracy If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both. Sec. 2385. Advocating overthrow of Government Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof - Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.... These laws broadly forbid organizing to use force to attack the government. But the cypherpunks movement was originally conceived as a way to evade government, not to attack it. Using cryptography, people could communicate freely and avoid government regulations; they could make voluntary agreements without the government being able to interfere; they could exchange goods and services of value without the government being able to take a share. None of this involved using force in any way. At most it would make the government irrelevant by giving people the opportunity voluntarily to move their activities out of its sphere of influence. It was only when Tim May turned away from cryptography and shifted his focus to firearms and Y2K and violent fantasies of revenge that the tone of the group changed. It is very likely that many of his writings fit the definition above, being made "with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government," and "advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence". Tim May has advised us many times to kill judges and police officers, congressmen and jail guards. He has said endlessly that the U.S. government needs to be overthrown by violence. All of us will agree that such statements should be legal, on the principle of freedom of speech, even if we find the sentiments abhorrent. But these calls for violence have nothing to do with the cypherpunk movement. They don't belong here. Tim May has turned this mailing list into his personal toilet, an outlet for his impotent revenge fantasies. In doing so he has not only destroyed what was once one of the finest discussion forums in the world; he may have endangered other subscribers, if those outdated and unconstitutional laws are ever put back into force.

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WashPost: DoJ to monitor lawyer's calls
by Karsten M. Self 09 Nov '01

09 Nov '01

Pointer from Dan Gillmor's SJMerc column. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A64663-2001Nov8.html U.S. Will Monitor Calls to Lawyers Rule on Detainees Called 'Terrifying' By George Lardner Jr. Washington Post Staff Writer Friday, November 9, 2001; Page A01 The Justice Department has decided to listen in on the conversations of lawyers with clients in federal custody, including people who have been detained but not charged with any crime, whenever that is deemed necessary to prevent violence or terrorism. Attorney General John D. Ashcroft approved the eavesdropping rule on an emergency basis last week, without the usual waiting period for public comment. It went into effect immediately, permitting the government to monitor conversations and intercept mail between people in custody and their attorneys for up to a year at a time. The move, which the Justice Department said was necessary "in view of the immediacy of the dangers to the public," stunned defense lawyers and civil libertarians. They assailed it as an unconstitutional attack on the right to counsel and, in the words of American Civil Liberties Union official Laura W. Murphy, "a terrifying precedent." The monitoring of attorney-client conversations is the latest in a series of extraordinary law enforcement measures the government has taken in response to the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks on New York and Washington. President Bush last week signed the USA Patriot Act, a bill that gives the government a freer hand to conduct searches, detain or deport suspects, eavesdrop on Internet communications, monitor financial transactions and obtain electronic records on individuals. The administration also has promised to crack down on immigration violations, Congress is considering legislation to tighten airport security, and Ashcroft announced yesterday that he is reorganizing the Justice Department and FBI to concentrate on terrorism. Until now, communications between inmates and their attorneys have been exempt from the usual monitoring of social phone calls and visits at the 100 federal prisons around the country. According to a summary published in the Federal Register Oct. 31, the monitoring will be conducted without a court order whenever the attorney general certifies "that reasonable suspicion exists to believe that an inmate may use communications with attorneys or their agents to facilitate acts of terrorism." The definition of "inmate" previously covered only people in custody of the federal Bureau of Prisons, but it was changed to cover anyone "held as witnesses, detainees or otherwise" by INS agents, U.S. marshals or other federal authorities. Since Sept. 11, the government has detained nearly 1,200 people, many on immigration violations. The Bush administration has declined to say how many have been released. Explaining the new rule, the Justice Department said authorities "may have substantial reason to believe that certain inmates who have been involved in terrorist activities will pass messages through their attorneys (or the attorney's legal assistant or an interpreter) to individuals on the outside for the purpose of continuing terrorist activities." The president of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers, Irwin Schwartz of Seattle, denounced the eavesdropping as "an abomination" and said it would be challenged in court at the first opportunity. "The Code of Professional Responsibility is quite clear: a lawyer must maintain confidentiality," Schwartz said. "If we can't speak with a client confidentially, we may not speak with him at all. And if we can't do that, the client is stripped of his Sixth Amendment right to have a lawyer." The Justice Department said it will set up "procedural safeguards" to protect the right to counsel. Inmates and their attorneys will be notified "of the government's listening activities," and the monitoring will be done by a special "taint team" that will not disclose what it hears to federal prosecutors or investigators without approval by a federal judge, officials said. Records of clearly privileged information, such as a discussion about a client's defense, will not be retained by the monitors, the department said. "Apart from disclosures necessary to thwart an imminent act of violence or terrorism, any disclosures to investigators or prosecutors must be approved by a federal judge," it added. The critics were not mollified. "Who's going to be on the taint team?" asked Kate Martin, director of the Center for National Security Studies, a nonprofit group in Washington. "The government says it's building a mosaic, processing thousands of bits and pieces of information that may seem innocuous at first glance. How is the 'taint team' going to know if something a person says to a lawyer is part of the mosaic or not without sharing it with others? This seems to be a useless safeguard. What if they think what they overhear is in code?" Martin said monitoring of witnesses and others who have not been convicted would be "particularly outrageous." Murphy, who is director of the ACLU's Washington national office, agreed, saying, "the idea that this could be happening to innocent people is really disturbing." A lawyer's effectiveness, she added, can be dramatically diminished if the government is listening in, making a client fearful of disclosing all that the attorney needs to know to mount a forceful defense. The attorney-client eavesdropping authority is an addition to the "special administrative measures" the government has imposed on certain inmates since the World Trade Center bombing in 1993 and the bombing of a federal building in Oklahoma City in 1995. They include solitary confinement, interception of mail and restrictions on visitors and telephone calls. But until Ashcroft signed the new regulation, they were limited to 120-day periods. Now, all such steps can be ordered for a year at a time and renewed indefinitely at one-year intervals. Those under "special measure" regimes include Omar Abdul Rahman, the blind sheik convicted in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing; Abdul Hakim Murad and Wali Khan Amin Shah, convicted of conspiracy to blow up 12 civilian jumbo jets; Eyad Ismail and Ramzi Yousef, two others convicted in the WTC bombing; Wadih Hage, convicted of conspiring to kill Americans around the world; and Mohammed Saddiq Odeh and Mohamed Rashed Daoud Owhali, who were convicted in the 1998 bombings of the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. At a trial last June, an Algerian witness said Rahman issued a "fatwa" or religious ruling from prison, telling followers to "fight Americans and hit their interests everywhere." Staff researcher Lynn Davis contributed to this report. ) 2001 The Washington Post Company -- Karsten M. Self <kmself(a)ix.netcom.com> http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? Home of the brave http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ Land of the free Free Dmitry! Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! http://www.freesklyarov.org Geek for Hire http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]

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Re: All your mentally ill children are belong to us
by Nomen Nescio 09 Nov '01

09 Nov '01

Marc de Piolenc wrote: > Nomen Nescio wrote: > > And yet we expect airport screeners to ignore past acts of terrorism > > by a wild-eyed fanatic boarding a plan, > > I don't recall anybody being required to do that. Quite a stretch, > unless you can cite an example. Read this from Tim May, November 3: It really is no business of government to know the identities of those whose bags/etc. they are checking. Having government able to single out some travellers for special processing is a recipe for this kind of mischief. BTW, the _wrong_ tack to take would be some argument about a "right to travel," some over-ruling of Southwest's or United's right to pick its customers as it wishes. The preferred approach should be to have no ID at the _security_ checkpoint and to not have any laws requiring ID tied to tickets. He suggests having no ID or other history information available to help screeners make their decision, nothing but whatever clues can be gleaned in the brief moments available. Anybody want to fly *those* friendly skies?

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Check Out This Hunting Site!!
by eHuntingCentral 09 Nov '01

09 Nov '01

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We Have Received Your Confirmation
by Fantasy Mail 09 Nov '01

09 Nov '01

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America the Damned
by Tim May 09 Nov '01

09 Nov '01

The Sedition Laws are back. Be afraid, be _very_ afraid. http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20011108/us/attacks_sedition_1.html Some excerpts: Thursday November 8 2:28 PM ET Sedition Law Used to Hold Suspects By PETE YOST, Associated Press Writer WASHINGTON (AP) - Prosecutors seeking to hold people they suspect were in the early stages of terrorist plots may turn anew to a very old weapon - the Civil War-era law on sedition. Last week, prosecutors cited the rarely invoked law in the case of a student being detained in New York, and hinted they might make fuller use of it in the aftermath of the Sept. 11 attacks. ... Law enforcement officials, speaking only on condition of anonymity, said prosecutors are examining other cases in which they might use the sedition law against people who did not carry out attacks but had been in various stages of planning. ... The government used the sedition law after World War I to convict anarchists. In the 1950s, the Supreme Court upheld convictions of communists on sedition charges for teaching doctrines that were held to be subversive. ``These weren't people blowing things up; they were basically basement seminars where people would read Marx,'' said constitutional law professor Richard Primus of the University of Michigan. ... Chicago attorney Jeremy Margolis successfully prosecuted four Puerto Rican nationalists for seditious conspiracy in the 1980s for planning to bomb a Marine training center and an Army Reserve facility. The object of the conspiracy was to change the policies of the U.S. government ``as opposed to doing a particular criminal act - blow that up, take that down, shoot that person,'' Margolis recalled. --end excerpt-- TCM comments: -- How is what we on this list, in our physical meetings for the past 9 years, our other activities, any different from the cases just cited, of "they were basically basement seminars where people would read Marx,'' (*) and of being "anarchists" and of "The object of the conspiracy was to change the policies of the U.S. government"? (* except we read folks nearly the polar opposite of Marx, but just as dangerous to the American Way) -- the witch hunts of the 50s are coming back with a vengeance, faster than anyone predicted...we've got Alan Dershowitz suggesting that the rack be brought back ("with proper torture warrants"), we've got airline passengers surrounded by soldiers and questioned about the novel found in their luggage, we've got a thousand or so persons detained without due process/habeas corpus, and we've got got drastic new police state measures in the offensively-named "USA PATRIOT Act." -- I wonder who'll star in the new CBS production of "I Led Three Lives"? --Tim May "You don't expect governments to obey the law because of some higher moral development. You expect them to obey the law because they know that if they don't, those who aren't shot will be hanged." - -Michael Shirley

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Sedition Law Used to Hold Suspects
by Jim Choate 09 Nov '01

09 Nov '01

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20011108/us/attacks_sedition_1.html -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Day by day the Penguins are making me lose my mind. Bumper Sticker The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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CNN.com - Scientists invent transistor made of one molecule - November 8, 2001
by Jim Choate 09 Nov '01

09 Nov '01

http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/ptech/11/08/tiny.transistors.ap/index.html -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Day by day the Penguins are making me lose my mind. Bumper Sticker The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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American Language Center- 156-0000 Pozdravlyaem!
by ALC 08 Nov '01

08 Nov '01

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ay foolproof
by napsterrapstar＠hotmail.com 08 Nov '01

08 Nov '01

i know u posted this shit in april, buti know a way 2 get roudn fool proof, try booting up in safe mode, then uninstallintg it. if it don't work 2 bad.

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