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Inferno: Account of INS/DoHS Raid on NYC restaurant (fwd)
by Jim Choate 30 Apr '03

30 Apr '03

---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 10:58:22 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Inferno: Account of INS/DoHS Raid on NYC restaurant This is a well presented first-hand account of an INS/Dept. of Homeland Security raid on an Indian restaurant off Times Square. The expanded government powers enabled by the PATRIOT Act were explicitly invoked by the operation agents when challenged. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:46:30 -0500 Subject: Well written http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=15770

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Inferno: Social Structure in Social Software (fwd)
by Jim Choate 30 Apr '03

30 Apr '03

---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:23:45 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Inferno: Social Structure in Social Software Tangent started by noting Clay Shirky's keynote "A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy: Social Structure in Social Software" at the recent Emerging Tech Conference. Seems to be an interesting source/extension/application of Lessig's "code/architecture as law" observation. http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/et2003/view/e_sess/3625 Looks like this is the gist: "Social Software and the Politics of Groups" by Clay Shirky http://shirky.com/writings/group_politics.html TalkBack blog links of conference session attendees: http://undergroundlondon.com/antimega/archives/000081.html http://craphound.com/shirkyetcon2003.txt An interesting less optimistic viewpoint of the influence of social software: http://www.theisociety.net/archives/000585.html#000585 Links re: Wilfred Bion http://psychematters.com/bibliographies/bion.htm http://www.mythosandlogos.com/Bion.html Clay Shirky http://www.shirky.com/

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Re: Anonglish (was: Re: Authenticating Meat)
by Major Variola (ret) 30 Apr '03

30 Apr '03

At 12:03 AM 5/1/03 +0100, Peter Fairbrother wrote: >Personally, for the two ciphers case, I'd choose Blowfish and AES, ensuring >the keys are randomly and seperately generated, because Blowfish is a >Feistel cipher and AES isn't (and because both are well-peer-reviewed, and >available), but that's just a feeling which I can't really justify >mathematically. Jeezum Peter, if you're going to compose ciphers, how about *not* picking the contender chosen by the NSA? Paranoia is not just for breakfast anymore.

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Re: Quarantines may be justified
by Jim Choate 30 Apr '03

30 Apr '03

On Wed, 30 Apr 2003, Sunder wrote: > While we're at it, there should be a law against noisy kids playing in > your neighbor's back yard, If it's not your backyard then it's none of your business. If it is look into trespass and such. Being a minor won't protect them. > postmen who step on your lawn, There is, postmen are responsible to trespass. I have some dogs and my old postman had a problem with it, to the point of actually attacking one of my dogs and chasing it around my yard. He got away with it by claiming my dog attacked him. I moved my mailbox out to the street (there is a 3ft easement that is considered a public/utility way) and talked to the local postmaster general. It was made clear that if he stepped into my yard I would press trespass. Both the postmaster and the local police agreed that was legal. [rest of your dumbass bullshit deleted] -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage(a)ssz.com jchoate(a)open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org --------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: Anonglish (was: Re: Authenticating Meat)
by Jamie Lawrence 30 Apr '03

30 Apr '03

On Wed, 30 Apr 2003, Sunder wrote: > According to Schneier doing this is a bad idea - (or so I recall from the > A.P. book which I've not reread in quite a while - I may be wrong) if you > use the same (or similar) cypher. i.e.: > blowfish(blowfish(plaintext,key1),key2) is bad, I believe it doesn't gain you anything, but it isn't "bad" in the sense of weakening anything. If it were, analysts would start off by encrypting the message again. It has been a while since I've read on this, too, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but what is important for multiple encryption is whether or not the cypher in question is a group (as in closed under composition). DES, for example, is not, so multiple DES cycles is not equivalent to single DES. Again, I probably shouldn't be talking about this, as I haven't refreshed my memory on it in a while. -j -- Jamie Lawrence jal(a)jal.org "The current pursuit of American supremacy reminds me of the the boom-bust process, or a stock market bubble. Whatever the outcome in Iraq, I dare to predict that the Bush policies are bound to fail." - George Soros

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Re: Fake News for Big Brother
by FB` 30 Apr '03

30 Apr '03

On Wed, April 30, 2003 10:28 AM, Harmon Seaver wrote: > On Wed, Apr 30, 2003 at 11:09:29AM +0200, Thomas Shaddack wrote: > > On Tue, 29 Apr 2003, Nomen Nescio wrote: > > > Needless to say, nothing could be further from the letter and spirit > > > of the First Amendment. > > > > I thought the Constitution applies to personal speech, not to corporate or > > government speech... > > > > If I speak for myself, the First Amendment applies. > > > > But should it apply even to corporations? Are such entities considered to > > be persons? Should they have "rights"? > > > I don't believe that corporations do have rights, or at least they certainly > shouldn't. There is a case before the Supreme Court as we speak about whether > Nike has a right to freedom of speech. Hopefully they will say no, which would > end corporate political contributions, the bane of our current political > situation. > However, along with freedom of speech, there is also a First Amendment > "freedom of the press" as well, so the press, including newspapers, can print > anything they want unless it's libel. Which would lead to the question of why would (Nike) not just have "(Nike) News" - a newspaper or similar entity, completely hand-assed. The distinction between the press and non-press would appear to be difficult to define in anything like legally binding terms anyhow. (Not that I'd know.) FB`

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RE: Anonglish (was: Re: Authenticating Meat)
by Major Variola (ret) 30 Apr '03

30 Apr '03

At 01:40 PM 4/30/03 -0400, Trei, Peter wrote: >> blowfish(blowfish(plaintext,key1),key2) is bad, >> but rsa(blowfish(plaintext,key1),privatekey) is ok. > >It really depends on the cipher. If the cipher is a group, then case 1 is >bad - since > >> blowfish(blowfish(plaintext,key1),key2) = blowfish(plaintext, key3) >> >Some ciphers, such as DES, are not groups. This is why double >and triple DES are stronger than single DES. Also if you don't trust a given algorithm then chaining it doesn't help. You can also increase robustness by adding noise, at a cost of bandwith, see US patent 6,351,539, which both chains dissimilar ciphers and adds noise (doubling bandwidth requirements).

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RE: Anonglish (was: Re: Authenticating Meat)
by Trei, Peter 30 Apr '03

30 Apr '03

> Sunder[SMTP:sunder@sunder.net] writes: > On Wed, 30 Apr 2003, Thomas Shaddack wrote: > > > Layer the encryptions then. A good ciphertext looks random. Take a > > ciphertext and encrypt it again, you get a - say - cipher2text. A > > decryption of cipher2text with any key then looks like a potential > > ciphertext. > > > > Is there a hole in this claim? > > According to Schneier doing this is a bad idea - (or so I recall from the > A.P. book which I've not reread in quite a while - I may be wrong) if you > use the same (or similar) cypher. i.e.: > > blowfish(blowfish(plaintext,key1),key2) is bad, > but rsa(blowfish(plaintext,key1),privatekey) is ok. > [don't top-post] It really depends on the cipher. If the cipher is a group, then case 1 is bad - since > blowfish(blowfish(plaintext,key1),key2) = blowfish(plaintext, key3) > Some ciphers, such as DES, are not groups. This is why double and triple DES are stronger than single DES. Peter Trei

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[Street Performer Protocol] Re: The Power to Believe, Fripp
by Major Variola (ret) 30 Apr '03

30 Apr '03

At 10:12 AM 4/30/03 -0400, Tyler Durden wrote: >"Sometimes god hides." -Fripp > >Fripp rules. Anyone heard "The Power to Believe" yet? Appropriate cover art. I'm glad someone else knows of him. He's actually relevent to this list, viz.: There exists a "King Crimson collector's club" wherein, for $$ up front, you receive CDs in the future which are put together from concert tapes, which he judges to be not worth releasing otherwise. (Some have *awful* audio quality but of interest to fans, some are as high quality as modern studio work but are live performances.) This is different from the Foobar Record Club where the albums already exist. The KCCC is based entirely on reputation. He also leaves the copyrights with the artists, rather than publishers, and has written several rants on this :-) "Contrary to common practice within the music and record industry, both artists own the copyright in their work. " in his own words. (Albeit this is a mere biz model choice, and all are free to implement their own policies, although RF frames it morally.)

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Re: Authenticating Meat
by Major Variola (ret) 30 Apr '03

30 Apr '03

At 11:22 PM 4/25/03 -0400, Patrick Chkoreff wrote: >All this talk about meatspace suggests we should have some spare ribs >with those beers. Ribs from sacred cows are the best. >Of course, writing style and personality can help expose private key >hijacking and impersonation somewhat, though even that can be >counterfeited. I can recognize a post by JP May with my eyes squinted, >just looking at the shapes of the letters and paragraphs. But I bet I >could do an utterly, mind-bogglingly good impersonation if I tried. Try John Young sometime, after those beers. And Hettinga is probably a perl script :-) But seriously, you've just mentioned what's called "textual analysis". Spelling errors and other idiosyncratic choices can be used to "pierce the veil" of anonymity. That's what did in Dr. Kaczynski, who pissed on the FBI for over a decade, until his brother recognized his text. Running text through automatic translators (engl->german-engl) has been suggested, but deeper signatures may remain. It probably wouldn't have helped Dr. K. --- "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the Public Treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits from the Public Treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy always followed by dictatorship." --Alexander Fraser Tyler

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