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Grid Computing and P2P (fwd)
by Jim Choate 08 May '03

08 May '03

;) I think we've already covered this sort of app in our 'tit-for-tat' approach with Hangar 18...though we've pretty much decided to opt out of the music/video side of the apps. We have a new webpage to wander through, more stuff soon! We'll be moving more material for the OAON and other references sometime next week. We'll also put an identical copy on the open-forge.org by then also. http://einstein.ssz.com/hangar18/ For the 'old' Hangar 18 page, http://open-forge.org We've also updated the SSZ page as well, http://einstein.ssz.com/ssz/ We'll be getting around to the CDR page one of these days ;) If you want to play, http://plan9.bell-labs.com ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 08 May 2003 20:54:58 -0400 From: Tyler Durden <camera_lumina(a)hotmail.com> To: cypherpunks(a)minder.net Subject: Grid Computing and P2P Hey...I had a great idea today. So great that all will be forced to bow at the feet of Tyler Durden. Of course, I have a decent amount beer in me, and there are unresolved issues, but right now it's lookin' pretty "obvious" so here goes. Kids who currently share files via P2P should instead "earn" song download credits by making their computers available for grid computing. Comments? First let me state what I don't give a crap about... 1) Market for grid computing. For argument sake, let's assume it's there, and that there will increasingly exist compaines that need supercomputing-like capabilities but don't want to buy a Cray or whatever. 2) Kids won't bother. Bullshit. There will certainly exist a % of teenagers that would rather "legitimately" earn song downloads, and who have an "always on" broadband pipe. As for CPUs, those will otherwise be wasted at night. And in case I gotta explain it for the dim-witted, I'm talking about a big company wishing to purchase grid-computing facilities who come to the "P2P Grid Corp", and pay some $$$. These $$$ are then actually paid in part to entertainment companies for the rights to allow subscribers to download files in exchange for making their CPUs available for grid computing. Of course there are open questions. Like, how to value a CPU? (Hettinga?) Also, it would seem to me this system needs to be centralized, in order to control the file sharing. But it also occurs to me that a "song" might actually in itself act as a digibuck of sorts within the system (imagine...the 'gold' doesn't sit in a bank, it's actually encoded into the digibuck itself!) (There's also the issue of how to value the pipe-size into that PC's home...a big FAT-ASS computer within a tiny little 56K pipe might not be super valuable)... -TD _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage(a)ssz.com jchoate(a)open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org --------------------------------------------------------------------

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Grid Computing and P2P
by Tyler Durden 08 May '03

08 May '03

Hey...I had a great idea today. So great that all will be forced to bow at the feet of Tyler Durden. Of course, I have a decent amount beer in me, and there are unresolved issues, but right now it's lookin' pretty "obvious" so here goes. Kids who currently share files via P2P should instead "earn" song download credits by making their computers available for grid computing. Comments? First let me state what I don't give a crap about... 1) Market for grid computing. For argument sake, let's assume it's there, and that there will increasingly exist compaines that need supercomputing-like capabilities but don't want to buy a Cray or whatever. 2) Kids won't bother. Bullshit. There will certainly exist a % of teenagers that would rather "legitimately" earn song downloads, and who have an "always on" broadband pipe. As for CPUs, those will otherwise be wasted at night. And in case I gotta explain it for the dim-witted, I'm talking about a big company wishing to purchase grid-computing facilities who come to the "P2P Grid Corp", and pay some $$$. These $$$ are then actually paid in part to entertainment companies for the rights to allow subscribers to download files in exchange for making their CPUs available for grid computing. Of course there are open questions. Like, how to value a CPU? (Hettinga?) Also, it would seem to me this system needs to be centralized, in order to control the file sharing. But it also occurs to me that a "song" might actually in itself act as a digibuck of sorts within the system (imagine...the 'gold' doesn't sit in a bank, it's actually encoded into the digibuck itself!) (There's also the issue of how to value the pipe-size into that PC's home...a big FAT-ASS computer within a tiny little 56K pipe might not be super valuable)... -TD _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

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Re: Defense and Security Commentary Pundit Worth Reading
by Tyler Durden 08 May '03

08 May '03

SAIC? (A noted defense contractor, BTW..) Which company under the SAIC umbrella? (I used to work for one myself...) -TD >From: Bill Scannell <bill(a)scannell.org> >To: <cypherpunks(a)lne.com> >Subject: Defense and Security Commentary Pundit Worth Reading >Date: Thu, 08 May 2003 14:47:42 -0500 > >Paul Cox is now publishing a weekly commentary at: > >http://www.coxreport.com > >He's not only a first-rate analyst with SAIC, but an good friend of mine, >too. He's worth a read. > >Cheers, > >Bill >777 --- 777 777 --- 777 >"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary >safety >deserve neither liberty nor safety." >- Benjamin Franklin _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

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Defense and Security Commentary Pundit Worth Reading
by Bill Scannell 08 May '03

08 May '03

Paul Cox is now publishing a weekly commentary at: http://www.coxreport.com He's not only a first-rate analyst with SAIC, but an good friend of mine, too. He's worth a read. Cheers, Bill 777 --- 777 777 --- 777 "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

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Re: Some CA elected officials need killing
by barabbus＠hushmail.com 08 May '03

08 May '03

On Tue, 06 May 2003 18:53:39 -0700 Neil Johnson <njohnsn(a)njohnsn.com> wrote: >On Tuesday 06 May 2003 12:34 am, barabbus(a)hushmail.com wrote: >> [Can anyone post meatspace identity data (home address, bus, home >and >> cell numbers, SSN, auto licens numbres, recent photos, including >family)for >> the accused? >> > > >Oh Looky ! Looks like they are trying a new tact now that they >have figured >out the "How do I build a B*o$o#m%b ?" crap won't work. If you're suggesting my request was a baiting or part of some sort of sting, nothing could be further from the truth. B Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2 Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger https://www.hushmail.com/services.php?subloc=messenger&l=434 Big $$$ to be made with the HushMail Affiliate Program: https://www.hushmail.com/about.php?subloc=affiliate&l=427

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Re: Collectivism in "community gardens"
by Tyler Durden 08 May '03

08 May '03

"We have a few here in Santa Cruz. Bums and winos make a token effort to stand around and rake. Mostly it's an excuse for community money to be handed out to the "farmers." I've also walked past the weed-choked community garden in Berkeley, on the site of "People's Park," IIRC. Skanks and bums. New slogan for these urban community gardens: "Hoes fo da hoes!" Life in NYC is radically different and, I trhink, poses some interesting questions to purer libertarians. In NYC there are many community gardens in poorer neighborhoods. These community gardens receive no meny from either state or city governments, and occur on lots that have been abandoned for (sometimes) decades. In many cases the lot has come under the technical ownership of the city, which left the lot basically a field of bricks and illegally dumped garbage, which the locals transformed into a thing of relative beauty.. Recently, for the purposes of building low-income housing, the city has decvided to bulldoze some of these gardens, which the locals have put a lot of sweat into over the years. Needless to say, the locals don't want their garden bulldozed and, despite the fact that they are often of very low income themselves, don't want additional housing built on the garden's lot. However, the cost of buying the land is normaly well beyond the reach of even a large group of such locals (though a couple of years ago there was a move among some celebs to buy up the land and donate it to the community, but I think that only occured in Manhattan.) So, one could make he argument that "they should have found private property to make their garden", but this misses the point that part of the purpose of the garden is to greatly increase the visual livability of the neighborhood. (Also, these people simply could not afford to buy up such land.) And now, after creating a nice space in those lots for so many years the city wants to bulldoze them. Should thery be allowed to do so? Should the city be forced to sign over such land to the locals for them to "own"? Or should active resistance be utilized tostop the bulldozers? (Or is bulldozing the right thing to do?) I really don't know the answer. Anyone care to comment? -TD >From: Tim May <timcmay(a)got.net> >To: cypherpunks(a)lne.com >Subject: Collectivism in "community gardens" >Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 09:17:18 -0700 > >On Thursday, May 8, 2003, at 07:21 AM, Harmon Seaver wrote: >> When we were working with the local gov't community garden >>committee, and suggested that they quit applying chemical fertilzers and >>pesticides to the garden areas, noting that the Madison community gardens >>had >>gone organic 30 years ago, one of them stated "Oh, but that's Madison." >>Finally >>got them to stop the chemicals, but they still insist on coming in every >>Spring >>with heavy equipment to plow up all the plots, and, given the wet clay >>soil >>there, can't do that until very late, so people aren't allowed into their >>plots >>until May 25 -- in an area where you want to plant potatoes and peas mid >>April. Our suggestions that people just be allowed to do it themselves >>with >>tillers or by hand as they do elsewhere came to naught -- "But we've >>always done >>it that way." > >This is a minor, but illustrative, example of why the problem is best fixed >by property rights, not collectivism. > >(Funny, the word "collectivism" rarely pops up here. We ought to use it >more, as it better describes a bunch of things we often call socialism.) > >On your own property, in your own garden, one doesn't have to argue with >committees and government officials and city councils about spraying or >when one can start working the soil. > >This is the commons problem cropping up again in this common garden. > >Me, I have my own garden plot on my own land. And even if I didn't own >land, working out a deal with someone who _did_ have land would be >preferable to working in a so-called "community garden." > >(We have a few here in Santa Cruz. Bums and winos make a token effort to >stand around and rake. Mostly it's an excuse for community money to be >handed out to the "farmers." I've also walked past the weed-choked >community garden in Berkeley, on the site of "People's Park," IIRC. Skanks >and bums. New slogan for these urban community gardens: "Hoes fo da hoes! > > > >--Tim May, Citizen-unit of of the once free United States >" The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of >patriots & tyrants. "--Thomas Jefferson, 1787 _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail

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Re: Asperger's Syndrome
by Major Variola (ret) 08 May '03

08 May '03

At 08:41 PM 5/7/03 -0700, John Kozubik wrote: >However, did he discuss _how_ common it is ? Just because it is common >does not mean it is the norm. Probably means "don't count on it, but I've seen it many times before". >leave you now with a level of vision that still represents a retrograde >motion (albeit smaller) since you first got corrected, it could still be >consistent with my uninformed musing. Its well known that folks become far-sighted (short-armed 8-) with age. Its well known that close-work leads to near-sightedness, or you might just be born with it. So you might think they would cross over at some point --leading to retrograde acuity. I'm nearing 40 and it hasn't happened yet, though I haven't asked my optometrist to plot the second derivative of my resolution. Its encouraging to find that Neil is benefitting from age. He chose better ancestors in that respect than me.

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Re: Sheeple Syndrome [was: Asperger's Syndrome]
by Tyler Durden 08 May '03

08 May '03

>Smith's Syndrome is where the sufferer demonstrates an inability to >remember things that didn't happen, in contravention of official >truth. So you're saying that "sleeper cells" have something biologically wrong with them? Perhaps they should be quarantined... -TD _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

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Re: Underestimating long-term consequences of cryptoanarchy
by Tyler Durden 08 May '03

08 May '03

Tim May wrote... >>But my point is that heavy crypto will probably have unforseeable effects >>on the notion of the state, >>probably not wipe it out. >Banal comments. >Come back when you have something to actually say. Poo poo, King of the Anarchists. Those banal comments were made in response to an earlier statement of mine taken out of context. -TD PS: How long, on average, after someone signs onto the list does it take for you to 'plonk' them? I guess this means you need a constant supply of "fresh meat" in order for you to find out what's being discussed! >From: Tim May <timcmay(a)got.net> >To: cypherpunks(a)lne.com >Subject: Re: Underestimating long-term consequences of cryptoanarchy >Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 23:59:57 -0700 > >On Tuesday, May 6, 2003, at 08:05 AM, Tyler Durden wrote: > >>Kevin S. vanHorn wrote... >> >>>>Likewise with governments. I still need my trash taken out, and for >>>>potholes to be fixed. >>> >>> >>>What makes you think government is needed at all for these? My trash is >>>taken out by a private company, not by any government. And privately >>>built and maintained roads have existed for a very long time. >> >>Of course. But you've got to read further into my post to see the point. >>I'm thinking that in the future, some aspects of government might be >>competitive with the private sector to obtain public $$$, much like the US >>mail now competes with UPS and FedEx. Like in Stephenson's Snow Crash, >>many functions might be opt-in, including possibly war.... >> >>For instance, imagine where budget items are voted on directly, and >>regularly by voters. Would IraqII have occurred? (I bet not.) (My Jazz >>musician brother has suggested that "you should be able to vote any >>elected official directly into jail, no questions asked".) >> >>But my point is that heavy crypto will probably have unforseeable effects >>on the notion of the state, probably not wipe it out. > >Banal comments. > >Come back when you have something to actually say. > > > >--Tim May >"That the said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress >to infringe the just liberty of the press or the rights of conscience; or >to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from >keeping their own arms." --Samuel Adams _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

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lucre double-blinding? (Re: Crypto-making vs Crypto-breaking)
by Nomen Nescio 08 May '03

08 May '03

A Back asks: > It's been a while since I looked at the Lucre white paper but > extrapolating from the Chaum context doesn't double blinding mean the > payer and payee have to be simultaneously online with the bank? No, this is something else. It just means that two random numbers rather than one are used to blind the data when it is sent to the bank to be signed (oops, "transformed"). Doing this makes it impossible for the bank to recognize deposited coins even if it misbehaves. Earlier proposals that used a single random blinding factor were shown to be inadequate.

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