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[We The People] WTP Congress Internet System Takes Wing (fwd)
by J.A. Terranson 16 Jun '03

16 Jun '03

Interesting if it's kept up. Just think, Tim will be able to find out the next meeting at which Someone Will Need Killing :-) -- Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin(a)mfn.org ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 13:23:03 -0500 From: "Bob Schulz (DO NOT REPLY - Unmonitored Mailbox)" <LMM-1-114-50433(a)givemeliberty.org> To: measl(a)mfn.org Subject: [We The People] WTP Congress Internet System Takes Wing <http://givemeliberty.org/aboutus.htm> <http://givemeliberty.org/projects.htm> <mailto:info@givemeliberty.org> 6-14-03 WTP Congress Internet System Takes Wing WTP Web Pages For Every State and County Across America Institutionalizing Vigilance: It's Underway Today, the We The People Congress unveiled its network of county and state Web Pages - one for each of the 3141 counties and 50 states in America. Soon, anyone, anywhere in the world, will be able to go to any county or state WTP Web Page and find out when and where the regular local meeting is held, what's on the next agenda, the contact information for the local WTP management team, which local companies have stopped withholding, the date and time of regular conference calls, the details about upcoming special events, what the local, state and federal governments are doing that is unconstitutional and what the local people are doing about it, upcoming appearances in the region by people of interest, special projects requiring volunteers, the construction schedule for that state's Citizen Vigilance Center, and much more. "Think about it," said Bob Schulz. "Soon, more than 3141meetings will be taking place on the same evening of every month, all across the country. They will be working on the same solution to the same governmental problem, often engaged in the same interactive teleconference, watching and listening to the same speaker, working together to hold local, state and federal government accountable to the state and federal constitutions. And, in a planned and organized way, they will be distributing information to their communities about the essential principles underlying our system of governance -- information, unfortunately, that the People are not getting from anywhere else these days." The web pages can also feature local businesses that are either owned by local constitutionalists or that offer discounts to WTP Congress members. Significant future enhancements are already being developed. This is a strategic move aimed at directly empowering the People to restore the Constitution through enhanced communications and coordinated forward planning. Now that this system has been deployed, the WTP Congress management team will be able to quickly take advantage of these integrated communications functions and begin to fully execute the mission and organized activities of the WTP Congress. All local and state WTP Coordinators will have access to their own WTP web page, enabling them to post local news stories and meeting agenda items. WTP Coordinators need only "sign in" to the WTP web site to upload these items through a simple fill-in-the-blank user interface. All web page formatting is done by the system. To see the new WTP Congress Web Pages and to see sample "news", local content and experience some of the potential of this system, click here <https://givemeliberty.org/user/congress/map.aspx> , then select the state of California, select the county of San Mateo and click on the News, Events & Resources link. All county and state coordinators are now asked to begin entering the localized information required for their WTP Congress Web Page. To do this they need to click on the "My WTP" link at the top of the main WTP home page <http://givemeliberty.org/default.htm> , sign in (if necessary) and select the "Edit WTP Congress Web Pages" option that appears. A "Help" file and a statement of "Use Policy" statement are available and should be read by the WTP Coordinators. We urge everyone that has been considering becoming a WTP Coordinator to "step up to the plate" and get involved. Now is the time for all good men and women to come to the aid of their country. The continuing deployment of extensive internet based WTP communications tools coupled with the professional management of the WTP Congress and the execution of a nationwide strategic plan is about to make things very exciting. "It's a new day," said Bob Schulz. " All across America we have always had people who knew when government was doing something it had no authority to do - who knew the truth - but they were isolated and felt disenfranchised because they didn't have anyone to turn to that was interested in confronting unconstitutional behavior by those wielding governmental power. The WTP Congress is changing all that. It's an organization that will soon have a presence in every community and where those People who are concerned about 'republicanism' and the health of our Constitutional Republic will feel at home - and be empowered through numbers." After the new DC national office of WTP opens on June 30, the new Executive Director of the WTP Congress, Devvy Kidd, will contact all the WTP Coordinators and begin to initiate tactical aspects of a nationwide, integrated strategic plan closely coordinating with the WTP Foundation and the WTP Legal Defense Association. Remember - as important as this development regarding the Congress web page system is, the BIG story for WTP is just days away. . . Stay tuned. . . And finally, you will notice the image of Thomas Jefferson's home (Monticello) that appears on each WTP Congress Web Page. As a symbol of the inspiration and defense of liberty undertaken by Jefferson and others, the icon of the Virginia home built by Jefferson will play prominently in the future landscape of the WTP Congress and in each capital city in America. Bob Schulz intends to see the construction of a Monticello-like building in every state capital to establish a physical, visible, public presence from where the emerging "institution of vigilance" will operate and exercise the inherent authority of We The People in the defense of both the Constitution and our freedom. Eventually, when the People see those buildings, they will instinctively know that this is where the People are watching the government. "The federal Congress is an institution. The Presidency is an institution. The Judiciary is an institution. We will make 'vigilance' an institution," said Bob. It's starting to happen. Join <https://givemeliberty.org/user/congress/join.aspx> . Support <http://givemeliberty.org/donations/donate-join.htm> . Stay well and stay vigilant!

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Fw: Online Registration and Voting Experiment to Be Launched
by BobCat 16 Jun '03

16 Jun '03

Milspec elections. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Press Service" <afisnews_sender(a)DTIC.MIL> To: <DEFENSE-PRESS-SERVICE-L(a)DTIC.MIL> Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 11:43 AM Subject: Online Registration and Voting Experiment to Be Launched > By Sgt. 1st Class Doug Sample > American Forces Press Service > > WASHINGTON, June 16, 2003 A DoD voting experiment in the 2000 presidential > elections that allowed military and overseas voters to cast their ballots > through the Internet will be expanded in 2004. > > Beginning this fall, the Federal Voting Assistance Program hopes to get as many > as 100,000 military personnel stateside and overseas their eligible > dependents and U.S. citizens living outside the United States to take part in > the Secure Electronic Registration and Voting Experiment, said Polli Brunelli, > the program director. SERVE covers only those U.S. citizens who fall under the > Uniformed and Overseas Citizens Absentee Voting Act. > > Mandated by Congress, the project eligible voters from participating project > states will be able to register and vote electronically via any Windows-based > personal computer with Internet access from anywhere in world, Brunelli said. > > In the 2000 experiment, 84 citizens located in 21 states and 11 countries voted > in jurisdictions in South Carolina, Texas, Florida, and Utah, proving the > theory that online voting could work for voters wherever they lived, Brunelli > said. > > "We conducted a small 'proof of concept' experiment for the 2000 presidential > election, and it was very successful. Now we are conducting another electronic > voting project. Congress wants it to be large enough to be statistically > relevant. This will allow us to make supportable recommendations to the > Congress on the future of Internet voting for UOCAVA citizens," she said. > > Brunelli noted that 10 states are interested in participating in the 2004 SERVE > project: Arkansas, Florida, Hawaii, Minnesota, North Carolina, South Carolina, > Utah, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Washington. > > "We're looking for volunteer voters to participate in the project," she > explained, "and we have a Web site where interested voters can see if their > voting jurisdiction is participating in the project. Beginning later this year, > the voter can sign up, then register and be able to vote in the 2004 > elections." > > According to Brunelli, local and state election officials will use the SERVE > system to receive voter registration applications, provide ballots to voters > and accept voted ballots. > > Brunelli said security during the registration and ballot process is a primary > concern. SERVE will utilize digital signatures for registration and ballot > encryption as part of the security features. > > "People are concerned about Internet security. We've looked at the threats that > could happen to this type of system, and we've developed mitigating measures to > guard against those threats," she said. > > Brunelli said that not every county in states participating in the experiment > will be part of SERVE. She said voters can find a list of participating > jurisdictions at the SERVE Web site. However, she added that those counties > that do participate will include the "full ballot" for that election -- local, > state and federal. > > The experiment's official Web site can be found at www.serveusa.gov [http://www.serveusa.gov] For more information on > SERVE or the Federal Voting Assistance Program, go to www.fvap.gov [http://www.fvap.gov] > > _______________________________________________________ > NOTE: This is a plain text version of a web page. If your e-mail program > did not properly format this information, you may view the story at > http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Jun2003/n06162003_200306162.html > Any photos, graphics or other imagery included in the article may also > be viewed at this web page. > > > > ==================================================== > > Visit the Defense Department's Web site for the latest news > and information about America's response to the Sept. 11, 2001, > terrorist attacks and the war against terrorism: "Defend America" > at http://www.DefendAmerica.mil. > > ==================================================== > Visit the "Department of Defense Homeland Security" Web site > at http://www.defenselink.mil/specials/homeland/ to learn more > about the Department of Defense role in homeland security. > > ==================================================== > > Unsubscribe from or Subscribe to this mailing list: > http://www.defenselink.mil/news/subscribe.html > ====================================================

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phreq?
by Tarapia Tapioco 16 Jun '03

16 Jun '03

What frequencies do the lea snoop devices run on? Is there a good site for info on such devices?

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anon news
by Nomen Nescio 16 Jun '03

16 Jun '03

Is there some way to read usenet anon, not with google, but with a linux news reader like tin? I'm sure I can use google with JAP fairly securely, but google's pretty slow.

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Cypherpunks List Info
by cpunk＠lne.com 15 Jun '03

15 Jun '03

Cypherpunks Mailing List Information Last updated: Sep 12, 2002 This message is also available at http://www.lne.com/cpunk Instructions on unsubscribing from the list can be found below. 0. Introduction The Cypherpunks mailing list is a mailing list for discussing cryptography and its effect on society. It is not a moderated list (but see exceptions below) and the list operators are not responsible for the list content. Cypherpunks is a distributed mailing list. A subscriber can subscribe to one node of the list and thereby participate on the full list. Each node (called a "Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer", although they are not related to anonymous remailers) exchanges messages with the other nodes in addition to sending messages to its subscribers. A message posted to one node will be received by the list subscribers on the other nodes, and vice-versa. 1. 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Fourth Announcement for ECC 2003
by R. A. Hettinga 15 Jun '03

15 Jun '03

--- begin forwarded text

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Re: An attack on paypal --> secure UI for browsers
by Jamie Lawrence 14 Jun '03

14 Jun '03

On Sat, 14 Jun 2003, Sunder wrote: > Oh get over it. There are other formats. You ever heard of > XML? HTML? RTF? Yes, as a matter of fact. RTF is an MS format, BTW. They do change it sometimes, breaking various attempts at interoperability. They don't do it much; it seems like something they forget to break much of the time. > If the day comes where MS Office DRM only works with MS Office DRM, how > many people will switch to it? If your company is willing to switch to > it, then they'll give you a PC with it on it. If they don't, then they > can't expect you to interact with them via such formats and can't require > you to do so. > > You sound like someone's holding a gun to your head and requiring you to > have MS Office. No, there's no gun to anyone's head. However, as part of negotiating my current contract (I'm a partner in a small software development company), we recieved lots of MS Word/Excel docs. When you're negotiating new business, saying "erm, I don't do windows. Can you give me something else" is a bit of a show stopper. By comparison, if you're selling someone a car, are you going to stop them mid-sale and ask that they please haggle in Euros? (And in case you're curious, our project is entirely open source driven.) > Microsoft is not the DMV. You don't need to use their software. For that matter, one can drive without a license. I see your distinction, however it is very difficult to do business without MS software. I'm typing this on a Linux-running laptop, which is my primary user-level machine, and in order to do business, have to run Crossover. (And I do own my MS Office license.) All of my proposals are written in plain text and sometimes, done in Postgres when I need spreadsheet-like behavior. They have to be rendered in Word format for client consumption. (Open source spreadsheets still suck, in my opinion.) > And no, I will never be part of your problem because the documents I will > create for non work use will be made with Open Office or will be plain > text, html, or xml files. That's a rather fine point to put on it. There isn't much difference between work and non-work for me. Rather, there is, but nonwork choices directly impact my work choices. You seem to offload a lot of your choices onto your company. > If I'm required to use a DRM'ed Office for work, then fine, my company > owns those documents anyway and they can do whatever the fuck they like > with them either way. It doesn't matter to me at all -- it's their call, > it's their company, it's their documents. Just workin' for the man, eh? > Either way, how much a revolt do you think there will be if Microsoft > decides to lock down their tools (such as word) to the point where they > can no longer export to HTML, plain text, RTF should the author wish > it to do so and provides whatever passphrases or ID's needed to unlock > the document and export it out? Honestly, this is supposition, entirely unsupported by anything other than my intuition about how companies I've worked for in the past behave. Feel free to ignore. I think they'll lap it up. Along with expensive and annoying licensing terms, companies get no-forward emails and expiring spreadsheets. Think about what Enron would have done with that. Hell, I suspect MS probably evaluated what they did wrong in the antitrust trial in order to avoid similar outcomes in the future. There's a market there. > Who would buy such a dog of a product? Do you think businesses are so > stupid that they'd put up with a product that jails them in? Get real > son, you're howling at the moon! Um. Who owns the market in "desktop productivity software"? > You want to make a difference? Go ahead, wipe every bit of Microsoft > wares off all your machines and burn the CD's you've installed them > from. Go all open source and show others the right way. At least I'd > have some respect for you for voting with your wallet and practicing what > you preach. > > Right now all you're doing is bitching that you're forced to buy and use > Microsoft Office. I say that's bullshit, and you know it. I use MS software for interoperability testing (much like I use Quickbooks, some Oracle wares, etc.), and for client communication. Everything else in my company is open source. Everything we deploy is open source, unless the client asks for something else. They typically pay for that choice, not only because I'm frequently not familiar with the software they choose, but also because it's a bitch to work with (anyone else ever have to deal with Adobe Distiller under unix?) It isn't bullshit that to operate as a business entity, one needs MS software. I can certainly dick around with my personal website and write my memoirs without it, and 98% of what I do for a living is MS free, getting business without it (read aloud as "public interfaces") is nearly impossible. Perhaps you can ignore that, becuase you're just working for the man, and it isn't your fault that you write MS Word docs. DRM is going to be another cost. I'll have to have a real MS box on hand again, and the problem will be how it worms in to other parts of the business, diverting me from my favored platform. You can say you're not forced to use it. You're also not forced to do anything but swear at other people in public. -j -- Jamie Lawrence jal(a)jal.org "In my little way, I'm sneakily helping people understand a bit more about the sort of people God likes." - Larry Wall.

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Re: An attack on paypal --> secure UI for browsers
by Adam Shostack 14 Jun '03

14 Jun '03

A charming naivete. *Plonk* On Sat, Jun 14, 2003 at 04:29:23PM -0400, Sunder wrote: | Oh get over it. There are other formats. You ever heard of | XML? HTML? RTF? | | If the day comes where MS Office DRM only works with MS Office DRM, how | many people will switch to it? If your company is willing to switch to | it, then they'll give you a PC with it on it. If they don't, then they | can't expect you to interact with them via such formats and can't require | you to do so. | | You sound like someone's holding a gun to your head and requiring you to | have MS Office. | | Either way, you can ask them to export to other document formats which you | can read. Even now Office will export to HTML for example which is | readable by Mozilla and other browsers. | | Microsoft is not the DMV. You don't need to use their software. | | And no, I will never be part of your problem because the documents I will | create for non work use will be made with Open Office or will be plain | text, html, or xml files. | | If I'm required to use a DRM'ed Office for work, then fine, my company | owns those documents anyway and they can do whatever the fuck they like | with them either way. It doesn't matter to me at all -- it's their call, | it's their company, it's their documents. | | But, for personal use, I won't buy any upgrades or new Microsoft | software. End of story. | | Either way, how much a revolt do you think there will be if Microsoft | decides to lock down their tools (such as word) to the point where they | can no longer export to HTML, plain text, RTF should the author wish | it to do so and provides whatever passphrases or ID's needed to unlock | the document and export it out? | | Who would buy such a dog of a product? Do you think businesses are so | stupid that they'd put up with a product that jails them in? Get real | son, you're howling at the moon! | | On one hand you're bitching that you have to use Microsoft software on the | other you're complaining that I'm using it while I'm telling you I don't | want to and don't care to and won't upgrade to it. | | You want to make a difference? Go ahead, wipe every bit of Microsoft | wares off all your machines and burn the CD's you've installed them | from. Go all open source and show others the right way. At least I'd | have some respect for you for voting with your wallet and practicing what | you preach. | | Right now all you're doing is bitching that you're forced to buy and use | Microsoft Office. I say that's bullshit, and you know it. | | | ----------------------Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos--------------------------- | + ^ + :25Kliters anthrax, 38K liters botulinum toxin, 500 tons of /|\ | \|/ :sarin, mustard and VX gas, mobile bio-weapons labs, nukular /\|/\ | <--*-->:weapons.. Reasons for war on Iraq - GWB 2003-01-28 speech. \/|\/ | /|\ :Found to date: 0. Cost of war: $800,000,000,000 USD. \|/ | + v + : The look on Sadam's face - priceless! | --------_sunder_(a)_sunder_._net_------- http://www.sunder.net ------------ | | On Sat, 14 Jun 2003, Adam Shostack wrote: | | > Sure. And I'm glad you work with a small group of people who | > understand that you don't read their documents. After many years of | > refusal, I finally gave up. I work with lots of customers who expect | > documents in MS formats, and look at you askance for giving them | > anything else. You only get so many explanations before customers go | > elsewhere, and I chose not to spend them on this. Similarly, I could | > choose to speak to everyone I meet in, say, Russian. And some folks | > would understand. Others would walk away. So, you can argue that | > you're effectively required to speak English to do business in North | > America. I would argue that you're similarly required to use MS | > Office. | > | > | > You'll be part of the problem when Nogsuccob is apon us, because the | > documents you create won't be readable in OpenOffice, and Crossover | > won't run. | > | > | > Office Nogsuccob will only interoperate with itself. Companies will end | > up deploying it to interact with other versions, not for any real | > feature. | > | > You don't like the word force, I suggest quitting all use of .DOC, | > .PPT, and .XLS formats. Please educate the world on how much better | > the alternatives are. Me, I'll pay my $200 to not bother today, and | > regret it tomorrow. | > | > And by the way, do you have a driver's license, or other state-issued | > ID card? | -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume

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Re: An attack on paypal --> secure UI for browsers
by Adam Shostack 14 Jun '03

14 Jun '03

On Sat, Jun 14, 2003 at 03:30:47PM -0400, Sunder wrote: | Um, how's that agin? How does Ballmer and Gates force you, Adam Shostack | to run Microsoft Office? Did they put a gun to your head? Did they | manage to twist Congress's arms to put a gun to your head? | | Compatibility you say? Well, that's your choice. You can decide if it's | important enough to you and act accordingly. I personally think MSFT is | evil, and provides nothing but mediocre software. So I vote with my | wallet by not paying them for their junk and I won't buy upgrades of their | software if the previous versions do what I needed, and install Linux and | OpenBSD on new machines. Sure. And I'm glad you work with a small group of people who understand that you don't read their documents. After many years of refusal, I finally gave up. I work with lots of customers who expect documents in MS formats, and look at you askance for giving them anything else. You only get so many explanations before customers go elsewhere, and I chose not to spend them on this. Similarly, I could choose to speak to everyone I meet in, say, Russian. And some folks would understand. Others would walk away. So, you can argue that you're effectively required to speak English to do business in North America. I would argue that you're similarly required to use MS Office. | Yes, my work machine runs win2k, but I didn't pay for it, and I didn't | have much choice in it - actually I could either quit and find a new job | (really lots of fun in this economy) or reinstall Linux over it and live | with Open Office and other open tools or have paid for Crossover office | out of my pocket, etc. Wasn't worth the trouble and we already have a | site license for win2k + office 2k, so that's the path I went. Not my | money, the company's money. They chose to pay the Redmond Beast, so what | do I care? You'll be part of the problem when Nogsuccob is apon us, because the documents you create won't be readable in OpenOffice, and Crossover won't run. | So why do you feel it's required of you to either pay Microsoft for, or | pirate Office XP and Server 2003 and TCPA enabled junkware? What's so | important that you can't live without them. Office Nogsuccob will only interoperate with itself. Companies will end up deploying it to interact with other versions, not for any real feature. You don't like the word force, I suggest quitting all use of .DOC, .PPT, and .XLS formats. Please educate the world on how much better the alternatives are. Me, I'll pay my $200 to not bother today, and regret it tomorrow. And by the way, do you have a driver's license, or other state-issued ID card? Adam | On Sat, 14 Jun 2003, Adam Shostack wrote: | | > Well, sure. And no one forces me to run Microsoft office, either, | > except Microsoft's monoploy. And when the document format can phone | > home to prevent piracy or openoffice from running, no one will be | > 'obligating' me to pay monopoly rents to Microsoft. | | <SNIP> | | > In the same way, no one forces me to have a drivers license. But its | > damned hard living life without one. | > | <SNIP> | | -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume

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Re: Microsoft, TCPA, your wallet and the real ending of the story.
by Adam Shostack 14 Jun '03

14 Jun '03

On Sat, Jun 14, 2003 at 03:17:22PM -0400, Sunder wrote: | Indeed. | | If it's coming from Redmond, and as usual if it smells of evil, there is | an utterly simple solution in dealing with it: don't buy it. Don't buy | Microsoft software, don't buy motherboards that include TCPA capabilities. | When you're up for getting yourself a new PC, get a generic one without | such options, or if you insist, call the vendor and tell them you want a | box without evil-inside and without a Redmond OS pre-installed. Which CPU vendor will sell me a CPU without TCPA? And besides, I WANT a TCPA machine. I just don't want remote attestation, or keys that I can't back-up and relocate. | Buy a generic intel/amd machine without the "Secure" processor, or give | Steve Jobs some of your cash for a nice G4/G5 machine, or you can go to a IBM is starting to add TCPA to the powerpc line. And much as I enjoy my Mac, the DVD player still has this bug where fast-forward doesn't work sometimes. Really annoying when you need to yank a DVD for cleaning, and watch the previews 3 or 4 times. http://www-3.ibm.com/chips/products/powerpc/newsletter/mar2003/ppc_process_… Sparc may be an option if Sun stays in business, but again, I want a TCPA chip that I can control. Adam -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume

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