- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

Re: Destroying computers
by John Washburn 19 Jun '03

19 Jun '03

Utah is Southern? I do not want directions from you. :-) And as an aside why is Southern=Stupid. Most of the truly dense people I have met in my life are self-righteous Yankees. Southerners, by and large, will say "Idda know" instead of spout foolishness. -----Original Message----- From: Major Variola (ret) [mailto:mv@cdc.gov] Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 9:42 AM To: cypherpunks(a)lne.com Subject: Re: Destroying computers At 01:07 AM 6/19/03 -0400, Tyler Durden wrote: > Methinks Mr Hatch is not a very bright man. A Southern senator. Need I say more? Usual suspect wrote: >>If Orrin Hatch proposes such a thing, we can propose technologies which >>identify those from .gov or .mil or other Congress/Gov't. domains and send >>lethal viruses and suchlike back to them to destroy their machines if they >>illegally connect to our machines. Trivial to do, and legal, if they are advised and consent by clicking through. M$'s auto bug- / RAMsnooping- reporting is legal since the lUsers agreed. One man's trojan is another's remote control / file sharing program, baby. Similarly an encryption program that won't decrypt without a license. I have often considered releasing binaries with a EULA that stipulates various actions taken if found to be running on machines whose IP address reverse-lookups to an evil, (specified) TLD. No different than a demo program that won't save results without a license; if the license is granted automatically for non-evil TLDs. Similarly with M$'s auto posting of RAM. Of course, that astronomy Professor Usher would be pretty bummed when his research was toasted by an RIAA killbot, but then the Prof employs a provocatory surname, no? "Collateral damage" -hey, he could change his name, after all. Maybe to David Nelson :-) ---- If programmers are liable for security flaws in code, are legislators liable for unconstitutional laws they pass?

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Re: Destroying government computers
by John Young 19 Jun '03

19 Jun '03

Hatch issued a press release yesterday softening his remarks but not recanting. His statement at the hearing does indeed raise the national security threat of P2P in which mil and gov computers using P2P could be attacked by evildoers and grab nation-threatening information, or damage the machines. This threat of commingling mil, gov and public users relates to the recent CIA publication which says the Agency will not use public networks to gather information in fear that classified systems will be compromised. Thus, the Agency remains in the dark about vast amounts of information available to the public, which in turn likely distorts its intelligence reporting to national authorities. It would be wondrous if the Internet gradually turns the spooks inward to protect their out of date secrets, even more so, such that they self-destruct like other historical institutions which became so obsessed with their secrets they lost touch with their supporters, indeed came to see their increasingly skeptical supporters, outsiders, as the principal threats, and so instituted even more spying among their supporters, meanwhile neglecting genuine threats more distantly located. That would fit the DC model of reality, the faith in inside information no matter how foul just so long as only a few had access to it. Perfect setup for manipulating the dimbulbs. Belgium has a good idea to go after war criminals whereever they hide behind national borders, or as in Congress, legislative immunity coutured in national security.

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Re: [Brinworld] Car's data recorder convicts driver
by John Washburn 19 Jun '03

19 Jun '03

A better definition of privacy is: When Mr. GovernmentAgent or Mrs. BusyBody asks, you have the ABILITY to say yes, no, or bugger off and they have no recourse in the matter but to involve magistrates. This is why the ABILITY to look up the information in the face-scanning, RFID-tracking, Money Monitoring, GPS, Insurance Service Evaluation system(s) (government or corporate), is an intuitive affront to most peoples' intuitive sense of what privacy is. -----Original Message----- From: Thomas Shaddack [mailto:shaddack@ns.arachne.cz] Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 5:48 PM To: cypherpunks(a)lne.com X-Orig-To: Adam Shostack Cc: John Kelsey; Shawn K. Quinn; cypherpunks(a)lne.com Subject: Re: [Brinworld] Car's data recorder convicts driver > Just wait 'till they integrate GPS, and GPRS or 802.11. Transmitter is easy to find. Receiver is easy to jam with a micropower jammer. Sometimes all you need could just be creatively tweaking the ignition and antenna wiring to get "faulty shielding" in the right places; it requires much more experience to make it look "accidental", though. > Much of this can be seem in the OnStar systems, which haven't yet > featured in divorce proceedings, afaik. Matter of time. The next generation of sleuths will be much more tech savvy than the current one. > You can call up and find out where your car is. ..eg, in a nameless radio shadow. > Adam > > PS: Bob Blakely once defined privacy as the right to lie and get away > with it, which fits into some of what many people mean by privacy. Another possible definition is the right to tell the truth and get away with it. But both definitions are rather about free speech than about privacy, but then we'd get to a fight over definitions which is in this context better to leave on the shoulders of people making encyclopedias.

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Re: Destroying government computers
by Tyler Durden 19 Jun '03

19 Jun '03

>The chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee said yesterday he favors >developing new technology to remotely destroy the computers of people who >illegally download music from the Internet. Well, even if they COULD develope such a technology, wouldn't it only work for about a day or two before a patch was made to block it? Sounds awfully Dilbert-like. Methinks Mr Hatch is not a very bright man. >If Orrin Hatch proposes such a thing, we can propose technologies which >identify those from .gov or .mil or other Congress/Gov't. domains and send >lethal viruses and suchlike back to them to destroy their machines if they >illegally connect to our machines. Why wait? And of course, such an act would be our patriotic duty, because if we didn't, then The Terrorists certainly would when we were least prepared for it. -TD >From: Tim May <timcmay(a)got.net> >To: cypherpunks(a)lne.com >Subject: Destroying government computers >Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 20:16:57 -0700 > >http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/uniontrib/wed/business/ >news_1b18hatch.html > > > > June 18, 2003, WASHINGTON - The chairman of the Senate Judiciary >Committee > > said yesterday he favors developing new technology to remotely destroy >the > > computers of people who illegally download music from the Internet. > > > > "If that's the only way, then I'm all for destroying their machines. If >you > > have a few hundred thousand of those, I think people would realize" the > > seriousness of their actions, he said. > > >If Orrin Hatch proposes such a thing, we can propose technologies which >identify those from .gov or .mil or other Congress/Gov't. domains and send >lethal viruses and suchlike back to them to destroy their machines if they >illegally connect to our machines. > >(A simple warning that government stooges, lawyers, judges, clerks, and >any GS-xx employees are not allowed to connect should suffice. After that, >if they connect, fuck their machines dead.) > > >--Tim May >"Ben Franklin warned us that those who would trade liberty for a little >bit of temporary security deserve neither. This is the path we are now >racing down, with American flags fluttering."-- Tim May, on events >following 9/11/2001 _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

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Re: Destroying computers
by Major Variola (ret) 19 Jun '03

19 Jun '03

At 01:07 AM 6/19/03 -0400, Tyler Durden wrote: > Methinks Mr Hatch is not a very bright man. A Southern senator. Need I say more? Usual suspect wrote: >>If Orrin Hatch proposes such a thing, we can propose technologies which >>identify those from .gov or .mil or other Congress/Gov't. domains and send >>lethal viruses and suchlike back to them to destroy their machines if they >>illegally connect to our machines. Trivial to do, and legal, if they are advised and consent by clicking through. M$'s auto bug- / RAMsnooping- reporting is legal since the lUsers agreed. One man's trojan is another's remote control / file sharing program, baby. Similarly an encryption program that won't decrypt without a license. I have often considered releasing binaries with a EULA that stipulates various actions taken if found to be running on machines whose IP address reverse-lookups to an evil, (specified) TLD. No different than a demo program that won't save results without a license; if the license is granted automatically for non-evil TLDs. Similarly with M$'s auto posting of RAM. Of course, that astronomy Professor Usher would be pretty bummed when his research was toasted by an RIAA killbot, but then the Prof employs a provocatory surname, no? "Collateral damage" -hey, he could change his name, after all. Maybe to David Nelson :-) ---- If programmers are liable for security flaws in code, are legislators liable for unconstitutional laws they pass?

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Destroying government computers
by Tim May 19 Jun '03

19 Jun '03

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/uniontrib/wed/business/ news_1b18hatch.html > > June 18, 2003, WASHINGTON - The chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee > said yesterday he favors developing new technology to remotely destroy the > computers of people who illegally download music from the Internet. > > "If that's the only way, then I'm all for destroying their machines. If you > have a few hundred thousand of those, I think people would realize" the > seriousness of their actions, he said. If Orrin Hatch proposes such a thing, we can propose technologies which identify those from .gov or .mil or other Congress/Gov't. domains and send lethal viruses and suchlike back to them to destroy their machines if they illegally connect to our machines. (A simple warning that government stooges, lawyers, judges, clerks, and any GS-xx employees are not allowed to connect should suffice. After that, if they connect, fuck their machines dead.) --Tim May "Ben Franklin warned us that those who would trade liberty for a little bit of temporary security deserve neither. This is the path we are now racing down, with American flags fluttering."-- Tim May, on events following 9/11/2001

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RE: [Brinworld] Car's data recorder convicts driver
by Trei, Peter 19 Jun '03

19 Jun '03

Googling on ("event data recorders" automobiles) will give a lot of hits. For example: http://wpoplin.com/EventDataRecordersAutomotiveBlackBoxes.pdf These devices are a byproduct of the introduction of airbags - the airbag processor stores the data which led it to deploy the bag. This can include delta v vehicle speed engine speed brake use throttle position driver seatbelt use The cited report claims they only store the most recent 5 seconds of data, snapshotted at 1 second intervals. It notes that the data can thus be confusing - for example, if a wheel leaves the ground the speed reported can be way off, and if the driver pumps the brakes, the 'brake use' data is ambiguous. It's not clear whether they store data continuously, or just when the airbag deploys. OTOH, I seem to remember reports of drivers of high-end cars (Audis? BMWs?) getting their warranties invalidated because the main car computer noted that they had exceeded certain speeds during the break-in period. Its not just the airbag computer that can narc you out.... Peter

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Re: 1st amend, thoughtcrime, schools as pipelines to jail
by gabriel rosenkoetter 19 Jun '03

19 Jun '03

> On Wed, 18 Jun 2003, Major Variola (ret.) wrote: > > http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-threat18jun18001434,1,6789200.story… oll=la-headlines-california On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 04:36:14PM -0400, Sunder wrote: > Anyone got a "cypherpunks/cypherpunks" like login for the turd of a login? cpunks/cpunks works. -- gabriel rosenkoetter gr(a)eclipsed.net [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]

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Re: Destroying government computers
by privacy.at Anonymous Remailer 19 Jun '03

19 Jun '03

We must not wait while dangers gather. They are either with us on computer security, or they are with the terrorists. We know they have these weapons for mass communications destruction and disruption and they have used them before. Preemptive actions are insufficient. Preventive actions are a right of self- defense. Isn't that the current world view legitimized by the US government? We don't sit still when a would-be attacker moves toward the cockpit, and there is no need to sit still waiting for our BIOS to be overwritten with nulls. Taking away offensive capabilities when potential attackers enter the concourse or trespass upon the chattel of our computers seems only reasonable and fully supportive of national security and public policy. Since we can't know whether it is our friends and heroic protectors, or terrorists, who are trying to destroy our communications, kill all the dangerous, evil machines that connect and let God sort them out. On Thu, 19 Jun 2003 01:07:49 -0400, you wrote: > > The chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee said yesterday he favors developing new technology to remotely destroy the computers of people who illegally download music from the Internet. > > Well, even if they COULD develope such a technology, wouldn't it only work for about a day or two before a patch was made to block it? Sounds awfully Dilbert-like. Methinks Mr Hatch is not a very bright man. > > If Orrin Hatch proposes such a thing, we can propose technologies which > identify those from .gov or .mil or other Congress/Gov't. domains and send lethal viruses and suchlike back to them to destroy their machines if they illegally connect to our machines. > > Why wait? And of course, such an act would be our patriotic duty, because if we didn't, then The Terrorists certainly would when we were least prepared for it. > > -TD > > > > From: Tim May <timcmay(a)got.net> > To: cypherpunks(a)lne.com > Subject: Destroying government computers > Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 20:16:57 -0700 > > http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/uniontrib/wed/business/ news_1b18hatch.html > > > > June 18, 2003, WASHINGTON - The chairman of the Senate Judiciary > Committee > > said yesterday he favors developing new technology to remotely destroy the > > computers of people who illegally download music from the Internet. > > > > "If that's the only way, then I'm all for destroying their machines. If > you > > have a few hundred thousand of those, I think people would realize" the > > seriousness of their actions, he said. > > > If Orrin Hatch proposes such a thing, we can propose technologies which > identify those from .gov or .mil or other Congress/Gov't. domains and send lethal viruses and suchlike back to them to destroy their machines if they illegally connect to our machines. > > (A simple warning that government stooges, lawyers, judges, clerks, and > any GS-xx employees are not allowed to connect should suffice. After that, if they connect, fuck their machines dead.) > > > --Tim May > "Ben Franklin warned us that those who would trade liberty for a little > bit of temporary security deserve neither. This is the path we are now > racing down, with American flags fluttering."-- Tim May, on events > following 9/11/2001 > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

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The Register - Researchers build gadget to see through walls (fwd)
by Jim Choate 19 Jun '03

19 Jun '03

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/31304.html -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage(a)ssz.com jchoate(a)open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org --------------------------------------------------------------------

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