- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

JOin List request - help please
by John Leishman 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Have tried on MANY occassions to join your list. The resultsd are commonly, in varitions of; Date: Tue, 12 Sep 95 15:44:37 PDT To: jleishma(a)ozemail.com.au From: Majordomo(a)toad.com Subject: Your Majordomo request results: Re: Your Majordomo request results: Reply-To: Majordomo(a)toad.com -- Your request of Majordomo was: >>>> subscribe Cypherpunks **** subscribe: unknown list 'Cypherpunks'. Please please, could I be joined <sob> <g> --------------------------------------------------- >>--> -*-_|\ John Leishman in Tropical Darwin / \ Wk (61) (089) 81 8155 Hm (61 (089) 81 9697 \_.--._/ Mobile (61) 018 089 631 Fax (61)(089) 819415 v E-Mail jleishma(a)ozemail.com.au 100026.157@compuserve

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Re: what are these people selling????
by Rich Salz 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>Jim Bidzos and some of us might have interesting interactions on >patent issues, but I've got to emphasize that he's no demon. He's a >guy trying to make a buck on his patent properties -- by and large he >has the same interests about seeing cryptography spread that the rest >of us do. Only until the patents expire. He's no demon, but there's no altruism at work. Come the millenium he moves to things like selling cars. You heard it here first. /r$

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Undeliverable Message
by MAILER-DAEMON＠usmc.mil 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

To: <cypherpunks(a)toad.com> Cc: <remailer-operators(a)c2.org> Subject: Re: PA Remailer Concerns Message not delivered to recipients below. Press F1 for help with VNM error codes. VNM3043: CPL JASON P JONES@IRM711@MCLB Albany VNM3043 -- MAILBOX IS FULL. The message cannot be delivered because the recipient's mailbox contains the maximum number of messages, as set by the system administrator. The recipient must delete some messages before any other messages can be delivered. The default limit is 1000 messages. Administrators can set lower limits if required using the Change mailbox settings function available in the Manage User menu (MUSER). The 1000 message limit is the maximum allowed by the Mail program. If this limit is reached, the recipient must delete some of the messages before the mailbox can accept any more incoming messages. ---------------------- Original Message Follows ----------------------[I'm sending this to the cypherpunks and remailer-operators lists. Replies are directed to c'punks, just to avoid crossposting followups, but I read both lists. -Futplex] Mark writes: [re: a new Pennsylvania law] > More likely the law will be used when a remailer operator wont play ball with > the local LEA and surrender any existing logs. Then the LEA can simply throw > the operator into a court under this legislation. > > If (when?) something serious is perpetrated and planned using a remailer then > they will have the motivation to shut them down. I would very much like to see this law tested. I think it could prove fairly important to attack it with a well-planned, benign test case rather than wait for the next National Liberation spam or a death threat. I don't live in PA, but I would be willing to participate as the defendant in a test case under the right circumstances. Presumably I would open an account with an ISP in Penna., set up a remailer on the account (need to find an ISP that clearly allows that), and have somebody send a message through it. We would need to design a promising test case and find an attorney willing & able to offer pro bono services. Any comments or suggestions, esp. from legal types (who of course are not offering formal legal advice to anyone :) ? Is this realistic ? What would it take to elicit a prosecution for such a test case ? -Futplex <futplex(a)pseudonym.com>

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"Corporatocracy"
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 2:42 AM 10/16/95, Michael Froomkin wrote: >Those seeking more info on the conference will find it at: >Http://www.multicorp.com/wec. > >They are asking over $500 in registration fees, which strikes me as wildly >excessive, so I'm not advocating attendence. Excessive registration costs for conferences have long bothered me, as Michael knows first-hand. I just declined to go to the Hacker's Conference this year because the registration has risen to $400 for 2 days. That they supply a midnight buffet is hardly justification for charging $200 a day, in my opinion. (My direct comparison is to science fiction conventions, where the hotel rooms run $70 a day and overall registration--with a nice program book!--is $40 or less.) Doug Barnes informed me that the money laundering conference, for which he wrote those great trip reports, cost $1000 for two days (gulp!). His corporation picked up the tab, natch. It's pretty clear to me that things are getting out of hand. I find myself priced out of most conferences, not because I can't "afford" them, but because I find paying $400 or $600 or more for a short conference to be a poor use of my money, compared to other things (like mortgage payments, books, investments, new doodads for my computer, toys, vacations, etc.). Conferences seem to be priced to take advantage of the tax laws and to soak corporations, which can write off the conferences. (No, I find there is no way I can "write off" the various conferences I'd like to attend.) Needless to say, I'm not saying conference organizers don't have the "right" to charge these exorbitant fees. Clearly they find customers. But it's also my right to avoid these "conference taxes." --Tim May Views here are not the views of my Internet Service Provider or Government. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^756839 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders are just speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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My chat with Goeff Greiveldinger
by Michael Froomkin 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I will be appearing with Goeff Greiveldinger, he of the Justice Dept, at a discussion of commercial key escrow next Thursday in Bethesda. Anyone with fun questions I should throw at him should contact me... Please note that the ostensible topic of this discussion is *commerical* key escrow, not Clipper per se, so I have to be diplomatic.... A. Michael Froomkin | +1 (305) 284-4285; +1 (305) 284-6506 (fax) Associate Professor of Law | U. Miami School of Law | froomkin(a)law.miami.edu P.O. Box 248087 | http://www.law.miami.edu/~froomkin Coral Gables, FL 33124 USA | New address, but it's still just as hot here.

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was: My chat with Goeff Greiveldinger
by Bob Bruen, MIT Lab for Nuclear Science 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Previous post: >I've heard cracking into Equifax and TRW is considered a rite of passage in >the phreaker crowd. The security would have to *damn* tight (as in forget >it) for it to be trustworthy. And since it would probably be the big three >credit rating agencies (I forget the other one), their track record is not Here are the three credit reporting orgs plus the medical reporting org. The cost is $8 to get your report. ---------------------------------------- CBI Equifax Credit Information Services PO Box 740256 Atlanta, GA 30374 ---------------------------------------- Trans Union Consumer Relations Center 208 South Market Wichita, KS 67202 ---------------------------------------- TRW National Consumer Assistance Center PO Box 749029 Dallas, TX 75374 ---------------------------------------- Medical Information Bureau PO Box 105 Essex Station Boston MA 02112 ----------------------------------------

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Weekly MixMaster list
by John A. Perry 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Re: My chat with Goeff Greiveldinger
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 8:00 PM 10/15/95, Michael Froomkin wrote: >I will be appearing with Goeff Greiveldinger, he of the Justice Dept, at >a discussion of commercial key escrow next Thursday in Bethesda. Anyone >with fun questions I should throw at him should contact me... > >Please note that the ostensible topic of this discussion is *commerical* >key escrow, not Clipper per se, so I have to be diplomatic.... The question I have is this: Why is the Justice Department even involved at all if it is truly only about _commercial_ key escrow? (I have some speculations, of course, which I'll share in a minute.) While commercial key escrow of course has legal implications, so do a lot of things that I suspect the Justice Department has no interest in discussing with anyone. And most of the implications of commercial key escrow--if strongly voluntary in the sense we have discussed many times here--are implications of _contract_ law that will get hashed out through court cases. So, why is the JD interested? Why would Mr. Greiveldinger of the JD be at a discussion of commercial key escrow if in fact it is to be purely voluntary and strongly voluntary? Unless, of course, the JD has interests that go beyond mere privately arranged contracts to hold keys in safety. Or, I suppose, export control issues. (But then I think it unlikely that a strongly voluntary system would be allowed to be exported. And since a domestic version that is strongly voluntary would leak out almost immediately, I think a domestic strongly voluntary CKE system is unlikely.) I suspect Michael Froomkin can tell us why the JD is involved, what the stated reason is, but I still find it "odd" that a purely voluntary contractual arrangement between, say, "Thomas Paine" and "Ye Olde Keye Repository" is generating interest by King George's legal officers. --Tim May Views here are not the views of my Internet Service Provider or Government. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^756839 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders are just speed bumps on the information superhighway."

4 3

Re: Netscape rewards are an insult
by an402976＠anon.penet.fi 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

====== On Sat, 14 Oct 1995, Henry Wertz wrote: On Sat, 14 Oct 1995, Dr. Frederick B. Cohen wrote: > The idea that Netscape (like Microsoft) thinks they can get free > testing services from all over the net by real experts just by offerring > a tee shirt is down right offensive. > > I have a better idea. How about an open market in break-in > software. We crack Netscape and offer the crack code to the highest > bidder. Bids start at US$25K per hole. For the insult, Netscape has to > outbid the competition by a factor of 2 to get the details of the hole. > Here's how it works: *cut* You know, this all seems kind of greedy to me.. It used to be people would find holes for *fun* and not for profit. It's still possible to do that you know 8-). ====== It almost sounds like extortion, doesn't it? RingZero --****ATTENTION****--****ATTENTION****--****ATTENTION****--***ATTENTION*** Your e-mail reply to this message WILL be *automatically* ANONYMIZED. Please, report inappropriate use to abuse(a)anon.penet.fi For information (incl. non-anon reply) write to help(a)anon.penet.fi If you have any problems, address them to admin(a)anon.penet.fi

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[Honk] FR $ec vs US $ec
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Excerpted from: URL: http://www.oss.net/zhi/95-7-oss OSS Notices, July, 1995 France Identifies USA as "Main Adversary" The following material is so important that we have chosen to reprint it in its entirety from Intelligence Newsletter, which we continue to recommend highly. Call them at (33 1) 44 88 26 10 for a sample issue or to order your subscription. FRANCE: Ringing the Alarm Bells "For the first time in France, a boss of the country's Direction de la Surveillance du Territoire (DST) spoke in public at a seminar on the theme "Companies and Business Intelligence" that was laid on by the Institute des Hautes Etudes de Defense Nationale (IHEDN) at the French Senate on July 4. As he himself declared on the occasion, Philippe Parant agreed to speak out 'despite the special nature' of his functions in order to alert French business circles of the dangers of 'economic warfare'. To be sure, the main aim of the gathering which drew a full house was to ring the alarm bell. According to Gen. Bernard Norlain, head of IHEDN, economic warfare now forms part and parcel of 'an overall approach to defence'. IHEDN will dispense a course on business intelligence to 30 high-level trainees in the fall. "Most of those who spoke at the seminar identified the U.S. as both the main adversary in the war and the best model of how it is fought. This was especially the case of Francois David, head of French export credit guarantee agency COFACE who said the only response to the U.S. 'could be European' in scale. Elsewhere, Remy Pautrat, deputy dead of France's Secretariat General de la Defense Nationale (SGDN) paid tribute to the French president for signing a decree on April 1 that gave birth to a Comite pour la Competitivite et la Security Economique under the authority of the French Prime Minister. Pautrat said the Committee formed "the nerve center of a more ambitious system" that was currently being set up, partly in secret." FRANCE-the DST's New Defences "During the seminar cited above DST chief Philippe Parant reckoned that economic, scientific, and industrial espionage had increased considerably over the past few years. It now accounted for 60% of cases that come to the authorities' attention compared to 40% for political, diplomatic, and military spying. Methods had also changed because state-sponsored espionage had increasingly taken a back seat to a type practices by private intelligence companies, international audit firms, head-hunter concerns, as well as insurance and reinsurance companies. Parant said that effective defence against the onslaught could not come from government services alone. "If that were the case the game would be lost in advance," he declared. He suggested that as many staff as possible in big companies be made aware of business intelligence concerns. In addition he called for "genuine information-management training in engineering universities." For maximum impact, he said, such training should not be dispensed by security services but rather by specialists in each specific discipline." L'Expansion Cover Story With the above background in mind, we can now better understand the cover story in L'Expansion of 10-18 July 1995. This prestigious journal, widely regarded as the French equivalent of Forbes, Fortune, and Business Week, appears to have been manipulated by French civilian intelligence and self-promoting private sector business intelligence activities. The cover story of L'Expansion is nothing less than a call to arms for the French business community, and the opening declaration of war on the United States of America. Unfortunately, this article was very likely drafted in active cooperation with French civilian intelligence experts, and should be considered a "covert media placement". I have taken a personal interest in the article because it links me with President William Clinton, Director of Central Intelligence John Deutch, and the founder of Kroll Associates, Jules Kroll. I am honored. Sadly, the article, while identifying me as the apostle of open source intelligence, is gravely in error when it identifies me as the linch-pin for a new covert strategy to undermine the French economy, and also alleges that I have been actively discouraged from implanting myself in France by the French authorities. There are three "realities" that need to be explored here. First, there is a budget battle going on in France, and the French civilian intelligence services are doing everything they can to "hype" the threat and obtain increased manning and funding. This should not surprise us, but the apparent subversion of the previously prestigious journal L'Expansion to the desires of French civilian intelligence, is cause for concern. Second, my sources in France tell me that the larger French companies, especially those in the defense sector, do not take this threat seriously because they are much superior to U.S. companies at the business of industrial espionage. A very well-informed source has suggested to me that this cover story is the result of an alliance between French civilian intelligence (attempting to increase its budget) and General Pichot-Duclos of INTELCO, who is attempting to increase his business practice among the small businesses in France foolish enough to believe in this exaggerated threat. Finally, for the record, I wish to note that I was invited to France by Mr. Francois Leotard, the Minister of Defense, with the explicit approval of Prime Minister Balladur, in order to join Admiral Pierre Lacoste, General Jean Heinrich, and General Jeannou Lacaze in speaking to a very select group of 300 French leaders from government, industry, and the academy on 23 October 1993. We spoke about the need to reinvent intelligence and significantly increase reliance on open sources. The presentations that these distinguished flag officers and I made have been published in a book called Defence and Intelligence, available (in French) from Editions L'Harmattan, 5-7, rue de l'Ecole-Polytechnique, 7500 5 Paris. Robert D. Steele, Publisher Open sources Solutions, Inc. International Public Information Clearinghouse 11005 Langton Arms Court, Oakton, Virginia 22124-1807

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