- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

Re: Mime/multipart (was Re: PGP Comment feature weakens remailer security)
by Dave Crocker 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 5:56 AM 11/9/95, Laurent Demailly wrote: >I've waited a bit, but as nobody seem to have pointed out, you can >definitly find a unique stream in a *single* pass (but maybe what you >really want is no pass at all ?) engineering versus math. you can do it in zero passes, sort of. Generate a heafty pseudorandom number and convert it to a heafty ascii string. What are the odds that that string will appear in ANY kind of data you are generating? Low. Measured in years and probably decades. As you do the mime encapsulation, also scan for a collision. When you get it (once every 20 years or so), abort the processing and start over. d/ -------------------- Dave Crocker +1 408 246 8253 Brandenburg Consulting fax: +1 408 249 6205 675 Spruce Dr. dcrocker(a)brandenburg.com Sunnyvale, CA 94086 USA http://www.brandenburg.com

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Re: Timed-release crypto and information economics
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 3:58 PM 11/9/95, Beavis B. Thoopit wrote: >Does there exist a storage device that, due to _dynamics_ (or other >factor), prevents the total contents being read in one instance? > >Bubble memory device? Torsion wire memory device? "All crypto is economics." There's a literature of sorts on "tamper-resistant modules," or "tamper-responding modules." Chips or packages that either resist tampering (= reading, opening, etc.) or that give indication they have been read, opened, or otherwise accessed. "Quantum cryptography" aims at providing a "read only once" system. Consult the vast number of articles and comments available. Basically, any secret stored in (traditional) hardware can be gotten with enough money. The issue is the amount of money it takes, and how many tries, to open the hardware. (And it may take a lot. Or destroy a lot of chips in the process. The similarities to bomb disposal are obvious: it may be _possible_ to disarm a bomb, but a lot of "learning" is likely to take place first.) Search the archives if you wish for previous articles I and others have written on reverse-engineering chips with electron beam probes, for example. --Tim May Views here are not the views of my Internet Service Provider or Government. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^756839 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders are just speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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New patent rules
by Hal 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Reading the latest Foresight Update articles in the sci.nanotech newsgroup, I came upon an analysis of upcoming changes to the patent laws. With the signing of the GATT treaty the laws will change next year. here is one of the changes, quoting from the article: Infringement. Present U.S. patent law grants to a patent holder the right to exclude others from making, using, or selling the patented invention in the United States. After about January 1, 1996, a patent holder has the right to exclude others also from offering for sale patented products or products made using a patented process. Thus, under the law as amended, the mere offer for sale of a patented product may be treated as an infringing act. In addition, it will be illegal to import a product covered by a U.S. patent. At first I thought this would not have much impact on crypto software, which is of course heavily patented. The current laws already prevent people from making, using, or selling software which uses patented algorithms. The new restrictions on products made using a patented process would not seem to be relevant. But there is a possible interpretation which would be very significant. What if data which has had cryptographic transformations applied were viewed as a product of a possibly patented process? An RSA-signed or -encrypted message might then be such a product. A blinded coin or other credential, a key signature or certificate, virtually all of the things we are interested in could be thought of in those terms. We have occasionally discussed setting up offshore servers and such to perform patented cryptographic algorithms. But if the resulting data is itself illegal to import, that would make this strategy much more difficult. Would it become illegal to "import" messages from non-RSAREF versions of PGP, or to hand someone a Chaum-type cash token issued by an offshore bank in a jurisdiction where his patents don't apply? I wonder if the lawyers on the list have any thoughts about whether such an interpretation of the GATT rules is likely to stand. Hal

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Re: Caching Cash (ecash speed)
by frantz＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 10:41 11/9/95 -0800, Timothy C. May wrote: >The concerns Hal raises about ecash speed are important. CPU speeds are not >the problem, network speeds are---many home and small business users have >very fast CPUs, able to funtion as Web servers all by themselves, but have >relatively slow network connections. Tim is of course right that network speeds are the problem. However, the network limit is the speed of light and not current network technology. If your bank is half-way around the world, the 1/7 second round trip will kill any chance you have of offering 1/10 second response time. For some thinking on the subject of caching cash, see the "Digital Silk Road" paper accessable through the Agorics home page: http://www.webcom.com/~agorics/ BTW - I don't think we should be talking about a penny/page cost because it is way too high for the current market. For example, my copy of Applied Cryptography V2 cost about $.067/page AND came with the media to keep it "forever". My (used) copy of Snow Crash cost closer to a penny/page and also came with the media. I would think that somewhere between 1/100 to 1/10 of a penny/page is closer to the current market value of the page content. Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz Periwinkle -- Computer Consulting (408)356-8506 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz(a)netcom.com Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA

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Re: ecash speed
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 8:21 PM 11/9/95, jim bell wrote: >The problem: How do you pay, say, 1/10th of a penny for a good or service >if the minimum denominated coin is a penny? This is important, because as >we all know the cost of providing computer services of all kinds (and data >transmission) can be expected to continue to drop as time progresses. If >we allow the minimum size coin to control our lives, it will keep prices >higher than they ought to be and prevent low-cost services from existing. A non-problem. Ask any business whether the "minimum denominated coin" is a penny. Perhaps the minimum denoominated _coin_ is a penny, in the U.S., but vast numbers of widgets are priced at sub-cent levels. True, no purchase orders are written for sub-cent prices, but this is a transaction cost issue, not something basic to the currency. (Likewise, Hal's concerns about ecash speed are basically transaction cost issues.) --Tim May Views here are not the views of my Internet Service Provider or Government. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^756839 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders are just speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Re: Timed-release crypto and information economics
by Bill Stewart 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 10:58 AM 11/9/95 -0500, "Beavis B. Thoopit" <beavis(a)bioanalytical.com> wrote: >I have not yet convinced myself that a time-release information device >is impossible.... Actually, if you don't mind only getting 3 seconds into the future, moon-bounce is fairly simple and hard to tap on the uplink. Unfortunately, most objects sufficiently far away to use this sort of technique for practical applications are too small or distant to be good bounce targets, and some, like the Sun, are just not real cooperative. For more expensive techniques, you could always launch a spaceship into a cometary orbit, figuring out how long it'll take to come back. #-- # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, Freelance Information Architect, stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com # Phone +1-510-247-0663 Pager/Voicemail 1-408-787-1281

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European Online Development list
by Dave Del Torto 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

[In case this interests any of you. -dave] ................................. cut here ................................. >Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 19:28:25 +0100 >From: steve(a)isys.hu (Steven Carlson) >Subject: invitation to join the European Online Development list > >Greetings - > >I'm writing to invite you to join the European Online Development list ><online-europe>. If you're active or interested in Internet in Europe or >the CIS, this list may be for you. > >I'm inviting you because you're one of my circle of contacts, and work >either in journalism or in an Internet-related field. I'm sending a >similar letter out to several hundred people who attended Esther Dyson's >East-West High-Tech Forum, held recently in Bled, Slovenia. > >A day before this year's conference opened, Esther held a special meeting >of Internet providers and related companies from around Europe and the >CIS. We all agreed it was a very useful meeting, that we should meet again >soon, and that we should all try to keep in contact over the net. >Therefore this list. > >As commercial Internet pioneers in Europe, we find ourselves in surprising >agreement on a number of topics. Though many of us now earn our daily >bread from providing Internet connectivity, many of us suspect the real >future may be in content. Yet what form this new medium will take - or who >will pay how much for what - still remains a mystery. > >We share concerns about privacy, copyright, encryption, censorship and >libel. In each of our countries, these and other issues will eventually >need to be addressed by new laws, laws that will be written by people who >- we suspect - know very little about online realities. > >In each of our countries, the local PTT is waking up to the smell of >profits in the IP market. These telecoms much prefer a comfortable >monopoly to the vagaries of competition. The PTTs have considerable >financial resources and political connections. How can smaller Internet >providers compete with these giants on even terms? Who will guarantee a >level playing field? > >I think you'll agree there's plenty to talk about. And at this early stage >in the development of Internet that's exactly what we need to do. > >I hope this list becomes a useful resource: a place to learn what others >are doing in Europe and the CIS; a place to identify potential partners; a >place to watch and learn. > >To subscribe, send a message with no subject line, and the text: subscribe >online-europe, to <majordomo(a)isys.hu>. Contact me if you need help ><steve(a)isys.hu>. > >Once you subscribe, you might want to a send a message to the list >introducing yourself and your company. Give us some idea of what problems >you're working with in the field of Internet media or connectivity. Or, if >you like, share with us your success stories. > >Send your posts to <online-europe(a)isys.hu> > >A full WWW archive of online-europe is available at ><http://www.isys.hu/online-europe>. Don't get too excited yet. At present >all you'll find there are some test messages. > >Thanks for your attention, look forward to seeing you on the list. > >=steve= > >--- >Steven Carlson >iSYS Hungary info(a)isys.hu >steve(a)isys.hu http://www.isys.hu

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Market Value of Web Pages
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 6:51 PM 11/9/95, Bill Frantz wrote: >BTW - I don't think we should be talking about a penny/page cost because it >is way too high for the current market. For example, my copy of Applied >Cryptography V2 cost about $.067/page AND came with the media to keep it >"forever". My (used) copy of Snow Crash cost closer to a penny/page and >also came with the media. I would think that somewhere between 1/100 to >1/10 of a penny/page is closer to the current market value of the page >content. With all due respect to Bill--his mention of agorics tells me he knows something about computational ecologies and markets--, there is no reasonable way to say what price is "closer to the current market value of the page content," except by what the market will bear! Yes, a paperback novel is a penny a page or so. But a 5-page consultant's report that sells for $2000 has a "market value" to someone of $400 a page. You can all think of all kinds of other examples. Closer to home, a copy of "Penthouse" which sells for $5 and which has perhaps 10 photographs of "interest" to someone can be said to roughly have a value of $.50 per Web page of equivalent material. "Penthouse" and "Playboy," to name just two examples, have "members only" Web pages, and they are apparently doing OK financially. (Other "members only" Web pages may also be doing well....it is _these_ Web pages that provide an example of paid access in contrast to the some other examples, where even a fraction of a cent per page is too much.) Personally, I've yet to pay for a Web page. Too much "free" stuff, too much stuff coming out of the firehose. (And a lot of JPEGs from the "members only" page are being "liberated" and posted--often through remailers--to the alt.binaries.pictures.* "free" newsgroups, or placed on other Web pages.) I expect this to someday change, and to pay for some things at a fraction of a cent per hit, some other things for a few cents a hit, and maybe even some things at dollars per hit. --Tim May Views here are not the views of my Internet Service Provider or Government. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^756839 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders are just speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Meteors [NOISE]
by liberty＠gate.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- My car window was taken out 5 years ago in Saint Petersburg, FL by a golf-ball sized meteorite during the Pleaides Meteor Shower. I still have the rock, and the glass cost me $100 (the insurance deductable). Happily, I wasn't in my car at the time, but I no longer think of meteor damage as a rare event. I've come to believe that Republicans could be right, for the wrong reason, about SDI. As a Libertarian, I find the problem of planetary meteor defense/avoidance troubling. JMR -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Freedom isn't Freeh iQCVAwUBMKKpjG1lp8bpvW01AQFmyQQAkjJXRNhhJtIKEDmxy3tGjy0TiJXpJIw6 MxujSnWgT5N2x+DBEkuVOfJrkqIXDsoO2lqR6SbYOb8NvtB5HdqQkU0sKNwxWe5Y IN6LXKPbfQgfOVETFdRhtgRaYyyaGgdD9++U6wOwl6D5rsRnBcvPWXwzpAKmIC13 iAR0yPNCDNE= =f160 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Regards, Jim Ray "When I visit Congress, I feel like Tom Paine in the Court of King George." John Perry Barlow Visit my "Pretty Good Homepage" at http://shopmiami.com/prs/jimray/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- PGP key Fingerprint 51 5D A2 C3 92 2C 56 BE 53 2D 9C A1 B3 50 C9 C8 Key id. # E9BD6D35 (key on page & servers) <liberty(a)gate.net> IANAL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Help Phil! email zldf(a)clark.net or http://www.netresponse.com/zldf _______________________________________________________________________

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Re: Timed-release crypto and information economics
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 6:52 PM 11/9/95, Beavis B. Thoopit wrote: >> That's a pretty large number of assumptions: >> >> tamper-proof delay line >> => tamper-proof crypto box ("transformation function with state") >> => tamper-proof delay line >> >> Why not just put a tamper-proof clock in the tamper-proof crypto box >> and not bother with the delay lines? > >The tamper proof aspect is really secondary to the math question. >The idea that if I set up a stream of bits through a transform, that >the original state of the transform affects the final outcome after >N iterations. The tamper-proof (more correctly, "tamper-resistant" or "tamper-responding") hardware is so that attackers do not alter the clocks, as one example, to "speed up" the time release. Or grab the key, as another example. (Cranking up the clock speed may or may not be possible and still have the device work, but it's still an attack to consider.) If the attacker can grab the internal state of the device, he can of course run the "transform" talked about above on his equipment. >If the transform exists, it will ease/eliminate the reliance on the >"economics" of cryptography to build a tamper-proof physical device. You'll need to more carefully argue your thesis. I cannot imagine a method, save perhaps for quantum computing techniques, which can avoid the need for "secure secrets," either via a person keeping a secret or a box keeping a secret. If the box is not secure against tampering, and an attacker gets in, he effectively "knows" all of the secrets. BTW, the "launch into solar orbit" scheme that has again surfaced here is just a variant of making the costs of an attack very high. --Tim May Views here are not the views of my Internet Service Provider or Government. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^756839 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders are just speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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