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Re: Crippled Notes export encryption
by andr0id＠midwest.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> >Item (1) allows people to travel abroad if they know crypto. It's unclear >that it allows them to emigrate or return to their country of origin. >Items (3),(4),(5) seem to prevent such a person from using, or even mentioning, >crypto to or "on behalf of" a foreign person. > Okay, question.. Is "crypto" and "defense" the same thing?

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by eureka＠eureka.abc-web.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Re: Me & Louis Freeh
by Information Security 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

It's time for "ASK GUY ANYTHING" again! > Subject: Re: Me & Louis Freeh > From: dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com (Dr. Doctor Net Twinkie KOTM) > > Declan McCullagh <declan(a)well.com> writes: > > > Geez, I was wondering why I hadn't heard anything from Vulis in so long. > > Forgot I killfiled him half a year ago. > > WHAAAAA! WHAAAA! Nobody wants to read what I have to say! > > I don't understand! Someone please explain? > > --- > > Dr. Doctor Net Twinkie KOTM > Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps GUY REPLIES: Dear Twinkie, The answer is simple: You are so full of shit, flies worship you as the One True God! YOU'RE WELCOME! ---guy What a loser!

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TOP_tap
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

1-25-96. TWPsst: "Military Men Named to Top Intelligence Posts." AF Gen. Kenneth Minihan to run all US eavesdropping on foreign governments and citizens at NSA, which is responsible for providing US officials with a steady stream of intercepted electronic data on foreign weapons and conversations involving foreign politicians. The NSA's eavesdropping costs an estimated $3.5 billion a year, a large portion of which supports its computer operations at Fort Meade and its world-class experts in mathematics. TOP_tap

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Bernie S. Sentencing
by dan＠milliways.org 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I believe that Ed was the first person to be sentenced under PA's new anti-toll fraud law which makes it illegal to build, distribute, or distribute plans for, or use "toll-fraud" devices which include EEPROM burners, cellular diagnostic equipment, etc. The Man couldn't put him away for any length of time for that, so they're trying another angle. ObCrypto: When they pass laws against "info-laundering"/"electronic identity hiding" tools, it'll probably go something like this. =========BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE========= Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 06:48:44 -0500 (EST) From: Emmanuel Goldstein <emmanuel(a)2600.COM> Subject: Bernie S. Sentencing Friday I just found out that Bernie S. will be sentenced this Friday morning at 9 am in Easton, PA for the crime of removing batteries from a tone dialer several years ago. This is defined as a victimless misdemeanor for which the judge in this small town (under considerable influence from the Secret Service) set bail at $250,000. He could get two years in prison at sentencing. Press attention could be very helpful in avoiding a sentence as irrational as the bail setting - right now the only influence these people are getting is from the Secret Service and they want to put Bernie S away for as long as they can. If you're not entirely up to date on this story, finger bernies(a)2600.com for all of the details. If you know of anyone who will cover this story, please get ahold of them right away so they can plan on being there. If anyone is interested in going, let me know so we can hopefully fill some cars from NYC. Sentencing is scheduled for Friday, January 26 at 9 am Courtroom 5 Northampton County Government Center 7th and Washington Street Easton, PA 18042-7492 (610) 559-3020 (district attorney) case # 2173-1993 The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania vs. Edward E. Cummings Misdemeanor 2 - tampering with physical evidence Please help spread the word. emmanuel(a)2600.com =========END FORWARDED MESSAGE=========

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Re: Hallam-Baker demands more repudiations or he'll write!
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 04:51 PM 9/26/96 -0700, Declan McCullagh wrote: >Anonymity and nonescrowed crypto are the linchpins of AP and its more >general case, Maysian crypto anarchy. The withering of the nation-state. >Whatever you want to call it. >To prevent it, governments will ban both. A criminal law, passed in the >wake of say a bombing this fall in Washington, DC, banning nonescrowed >crypto. (Freeh will assert he has evidence the terrorists used PGPhone.) >And another law banning online anonymity. >What then, Mr. Bell? While we should continue resist such developments, I (like many others) tend to believe that the government is going to have a great deal of difficulty implementing such restrictions, for reasons which have been discussed here ad nauseum. I happen to believe that the really crucial reason Clipper was proposed is so that it would exclude non-escrowed encryption using market forces, because they understood that banning encryption or non-escrowed encryption would be essentially impossible. Remember the VHS/Beta VCR wars? With a fairly equal market in about 1978, Beta died 10 years later because the market couldn't support two incompatible standards. It wasn't that one was dramatically better than the other, it was simply that having two standards forced the market to duplicate stocks, for the machines as well as tapes, particularly pre-recorded tapes. Notice, however, that VCR's are relatively "isolated": It doesn't really matter if you have one format and your neighbor has another, unless you want to swap tapes. But crypto telephones inherently require (in the long term) full intercompability. If you didn't have that, there'd be half a world of people you couldn't call! (This kind of situation is remeniscent of a recollection my mother has of a small town she grew up in, in which there were two competing telephone companies serving the same area, but customers of company "A" couldn't call company "B." The most popular girl in town was the daughter of a doctor, who as a consequence of his profession had telephones from both companies. That girl was constantly being called to relay information between people on opposite telephone companies!) The government understood this, and realized that the best way to derail the advent of a good crypto telephone standard was to produce one of their own, which they figured would pre-empt and kill off any competing system. It turns out that an essential element to this killing-off process is to ensure that the telephones aren't compatible, so I was a bit surprised to have to wait a long time to hear that one of the requirements for Clipper-phone approval is that they NOT co-operate with non-escrowed telephones. (I was surprised to have to WAIT to hear this, NOT that they said it eventually...) I think they realize that Clipper was their last opportunity to implement a de-facto market ban on good encryption, but it isn't working. As for a ban on anonymity I don't think that'll fly either. There are too many interactions we do today (off the 'net as well as on) which are already anonymous, even if we don't normally think of it that way. Visit a theater, pay cash, and nobody records your name, for instance. Buy groceries, pay cash. Throw coins in toll booth. Put coins in Coke machine, ride on bus, etc. It would be very hard to prohibit non-anonymous interactions on the net, with so many opportunities for unrestricted anonymity. There's even less reason to ID non-economic transactions too. Since most interactions on the 'net are not a financial transaction, there is even less reason to identify the people involved. So at the risk of being overly optimistic, I think the government isn't going to be able to pull off the kind of anti-crypto/anti-anonymity coup you describe. But nevertheless, I think that if they "progress" towards that goal against the odds, that could easily be an excellent justification for actions which you know they'll describe as "terrorism." Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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Credit enforcement
by szabo＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Steve Omohundro writes on alt-inst: > I'm intrigued by the notion that in a digital economy > contracts might be enforced by design rather than by the good faith of > the participants. I have been intrigued by this possibility as well. See my essay at "http://www.best.com/~szabo/smart.contracts.html". Steve has put his finger on one of the basic outstanding problems in this area, namely the enforcement of credit. Currently there are several partially effective processes: * Reputation (especially credit reports): often effective, but only to a point, as it is often hard for the debtor to accurately judge the future reputational effects of an action (eg failure to pay a bill, taking out too large a loan, etc.) that has clear, local, beneficial effects today. This is more imbalance in knowledge between current and distant consequences among individual consumers, but even among large organizations with high credit ratings it is not an irrelevant factor. * Secured transactions: liens, etc. * Garnishment of future income * Law enforcement, especially to enforce transfer of control over liened assets, garnishment, etc. These processes have a fundamental property in common -- they violate the privity of credit transactions -- they bring in third parties to track reputations or enforce repayment. Credit transactions seem to entail a fundamental imbalance in incentives that can only be redressed by bringing in third parties. Secured credit need not violate privity if the physical control over the securing property can be shared. So that, for example, automobile credit can be secured as long as reposession is possible. The trick is to make repossession by the creditor easy but theft by third parties difficult. I have proposed "smart liens" along these lines, electronic security measures strong against third parties but with a "back door" for creditors. This well-specified, shared control over "smart property" more accurately reflects the agreement involving that property, so that there is less need for third parties. To even more accurately reflect the contract, we need a mechanism to eliminate the creditor control once the auto loan has been payed off. Alas, there is less incentive to provide these kinds of contractual process improvements in a market where government subsidizes the enforcement of contracts. Similar mechanisms might be possible for other kinds of security (houses, escrow accounts, etc.), but many valuable kinds of credit are unsecured, and we run into privity problems when it comes to garnishment of future income. Here, we are invoking third parties, namely the debtor's future contract counterparties. Any mechanism seemingly needs to involve them, but both principals have an incentive to enter a private, ungarnished contract in preference to one involving the creditor. (ie, the amount of garnishment is a surplus to be divided between principals who can route around it). A way to a solution, if it were feasible, would be to give the creditor shared control over the entire scope of of the debtor's income capabilities - or, a bit closer to practicality, over the entire scope of his digital income capabilities. A secondary solution is some combination of wide scope and limited compromise of privity. After all, money itself is a compromise of privity, since the contract parties rely on third parties to clear and maintain the value of the currency. Money's compromise of privity is well-defined, however, not an open-ended release of information and physical control, even over one's own person, as often occurs with credit reports and law enforcement respectively. Our challenge is to find privity compromises with such well-defined limits to enforce credit transactions. One possibility here is a "garnishable currency". All banks have an interest in enforcing credit, so they can make deals with each other to enforce credit via the garnishment of debtor bank account deposits at any participating bank. However, substantial amounts of garnishment (and if it provides a lower cost way of enforcing credit the amounts will be substantial) gives rise to an incentive for banks to fail to participate. Here the need to commonly clear a currency between banks can be used as a barrier to entry for such defectors. The currency is simply declared garnishable, and any banks who wish to deal in the currency must participate in the garnishing process. This currency wins against competitor currencies in a free-banking market because it provides a better means to enforce credit, allowing greater credit expansion at lower isk. On the other hand, traditional coin and currency transfers, and some kinds of digital cash transfers, need not involve deposits to bank accounts linked (usually by True Name, but a "debtor nym" could also work) to one's unsecured debts, and given that there is a market for these kinds of transfers for other reasons, its existence allows banks to defeat auditing of garnishment by other banks participating in that currency. Abuses of financial auditing for the purposes of extortion, inside information, etc. will likely maintain a major market for the non-deposit payment methods. Steve proposes "interval money" that would expire. A similar idea has been proposed by Tim May, a "time release" form of money that becomes good only after a certain date. These can probably be implemented by a digital mint expiring or activating special issues of digital cash, or by a third party issuing escrowed keys at specific times (since these keys are encrypted against the escrow agent, and that agent doesn't know what they will be used for, the escrow agent has no incentive to cheat). A technical issue here is whether the digital signature space is large enough to encompass one unique signature per unique credit transaction deadline into the indefinite future. While these protocols are intriguing, and potential building blocks for a solution, the institutions using them proposed so far seem to still rely on a solution to the deposit garnishment problem as discussed above, that is the problem of sufficiently disincentivizing the debtor from using non-garnishable alternatives while maintaining the privity of payments to those who are not unsecured debtors (the ability for these people to use non-deposit payment methods). Nick Szabo szabo(a)netcom.com http://www.best.com/~szabo/

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another thought about random numbers
by Gary Howland 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Decius writes: > hmmm... probably just a cheapo pseudo-rng.... I'm sure you're right. > With a copy of their squematics and a whole lot of analysis you could > probably make some serious money!! :) Perhaps, but only to the extent that you could win what others have lost. These machines only ever pay out a percentage of what is put in - it is not possible to beat the machine (long gone are the days when the designers calculated all the probablities and relied on "the law of averages" in order for the machine to win). Gary - --- [This message has been signed by an auto-signing service. A valid signature means only that it has been received at the address corresponding to the signature and forwarded.] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Gratis auto-signing service iQBFAwUBMQdhoioZzwIn1bdtAQHk6AF/foseD0Wg3ezlf7XIHPkkwYcYz7OuQdQH mxyFFcFYxU6TLxjdn/FG8s1ehtegfqQD =LtQC -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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SMTP mail warning
by postmaster＠ncr-sd.SanDiegoCA.ATTGIS.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

message

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Re: "Corporations selling your ass down the road for a dollar"
by Michael Sims 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Declan wrote: [to cypherpunks for no apparent reason] > >None of this is news to Declan of course. I just get disappointed > >when I see industry mouthpiece after industry mouthpiece without a > >single goal in mind except maximum profit. Libertarianism in > >action - corporations sell your ass down the road for a dollar and > >some stock options. > > I'm sure Michael was upset and not typing clearly. He knows as well > as anyone that libertarians are not pro-business; they're > pro-individual rights. Except, of course, that *businesses* count as individuals in a libertarian world. Yes, the corporation, that creation wholly of government, becomes a sort of super-individual - and of course all individuals are equal, but some are just a bit more equal. When I see a libertarian calling for an elimination of all forms of corporations and a return to sole proprietorships and straight partnerships as the only form of business, then I'll know he's ideologically consistent. Until then, pro-business is the only reasonable way to describe the twisted rationale behind libertarianism. Which brings me back to my original point - the AIM representation at the aforementioned hearings. In Libber-land, there's nothing reprehensible there. Corporations are lobbying for their "individual rights", one of them being the right to make maximum profit by eliminating/marginalizing competitors. Of course the rights they are lobbying for may infringe on some others' rights, perhaps in schools or libraries which receive federal funds, but hey, that's life for you. Every individual has an equal chance. And after all, freedom to speak and receive information is just a preference - some people prefer to receive more of it than others. > Libertarians spend quite a bit of time > complaining about the Republican habit of funding corporate > subsidies. But very very little time complaining about the *existence* of corporations whose primary function is to shield the important folks who run and fund the corporation from the consequences of their actions. Come on! This should be a primary offense! Individuals with no responsibility! > The pursuit of profit in the free market is not to be discouraged -- > without it, we wouldn't have the Internet we have today. Heavens, Declan, you're right! All those companies selflessly creating a network between universities and defense sites, not seeking a return in five years but looking well into the future..... Let us praise the foresight of those companies. What were their names again? -- Michael Sims

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