- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

Re: Cats Out of Bags
by sameer 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

David Aaron seems to make lying out of his ass a hobby. His talk at the RSA conference was such a load of bullshit it wasn't even funny. "Other governments were upset with the 56-bit export allowance. They said it was going to undermine their national security." -- Start of PGP signed section. > "In an interview Tuesday, [David L.] Aaron [the Feds' Crypto Ambassador] disputed the industry's view that the U.S. efforts to control cryptographic technology are being outstripped by the pace of the technology. > > "When I talk to other governments," he said, "they still don't feel that the cat is out of the bag." > > What the fuck do *they* know? > > DCF -- End of PGP signed section, PGP failed! -- Sameer Parekh Voice: 510-986-8770 President FAX: 510-986-8777 C2Net http://www.c2.net/ sameer(a)c2.net

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Re: Last nail for US crypto export policy?
by Lucky Green 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 01:41 AM 1/30/97 -0800, Bill Stewart wrote: >I think we do need to get some sort of push going for 3DES as a >replacement for DES - it's strong enough, even though DES is showing >its age, and it's an obvious transition from the current technology. >It's slower and clunkier than IDEA or RC4/128, but still not bad. The migration to 3DES is underway, at least in the banking sector. ANSI X.9, the group that deals with many of the protocols used in the banking industry, has made tremendous progress. 3DES, elliptic curve, and a host of other improvements all are out of committee and should be available as official (for bankers :-) specs soon, if they aren't already. -- Lucky Green <mailto:shamrock@netcom.com> PGP encrypted mail preferred "I do believe that where there is a choice only between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence." Mahatma Gandhi

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Re: Altavista
by Eric Murray 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Leonid S Knyshov writes: [about targeted webvertising using stats gathered by tracking browsers] > I think it is a good idea, no wonder doubleclick.net is one of the > leaders in advertising. You are shown only the ads that will potentially > interest you, search for shopping and you are gonna get one of those ISN > ads etc. > > I think it is a good idea FWIW. > > I wouldn't think that a company such as doubleclick.net will do you any > harm. Probably not. But the practice still bothers me. _I_ want to control what information about me others can have. I do not want the precedent set that on the Net, what you do is trackable by every organization who might care. Sooner or later someone _would_ use that information to hurt me. That's why I wrote cookie jar, a program that lets the user have better control over which 'cookies' if any they release to web servers, and what other information their browser gives out. See http://www.lne.com/ericm/cookie_jar/ for details and code. > >Interestingly, I've just noticed over the last couple of days that the > >in-line > >ads are directly relevant to the search words I enter. I did a search > >yesterday > >on "Quicken" and "security" and all the in-line ads I was shown > >referred to > >security or penetration detection products. This doesn't bother me as much (besides the fucking ads, which I hate... maybe I'll make cookie jar smart enough to nuke them). The reason is that the ads are selected based on what you typed in to the search engine right then- there's no tracking involved like with Doubleclick. -- Eric Murray ericm(a)lne.com ericm(a)motorcycle.com http://www.lne.com/ericm PGP keyid:E03F65E5 fingerprint:50 B0 A2 4C 7D 86 FC 03 92 E8 AC E6 7E 27 29 AF

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Re: Rejection policy of the Cypherpunks mailing list
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 09:05 PM 1/28/97 -0800, Dale Thorn wrote: >I dare say that the downside of this is much less pleasant than the >virtual anarchy (in the bad sense) we suffer now. If the police get >out of control, A.P. will arrive just in time to plug a few of those >holes, so to speak. Ideally, future robotics should be able to >provide something like Gort (sp?) to take the place of human officers, >given advances in the kind of pattern matching needed to deter >aggression and the like. Those who don't make it past the robots, >well, the rest of us can learn to behave, and we'll be much better >off when we do. Your comparison with the fictional Gort, in the movie "The day the earth stood still" is of course apt. It was only after I'd written most of the essay that I realized that an AP-type system would function much as Gort did. Occasionally we (CP) see a spoof where somebody claims to have developed a software program to "replace the judicial system" or something like that. Well, the problem with such a claim (aside from the obvious and enormous AI-type difficulties) is that the current system contains numerous biases. Writing a program to replace the legal system would presumably require that these biases be measured (and admitted-to!) and implemented into a well-defined system. What we'd discover is that the current system only barely resembles the guarantees in the US Constitution. At that point, there would be an argument between those who will insist that the Constitution be followed, and those who believe that the current de-facto system, however biased, be maintained as-is. Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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Re: Fighting the cybercensor
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 01:03 AM 1/28/97 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: >jim bell wrote: >> >> At 10:21 PM 1/26/97 -0800, blanc wrote: >> >From: jim bell (in response to Dimitri Vulis') >> >Look, I've proposed what I consider to be a remarkably consistent method to >> >prevent the kind of political tyranny that you criticize, and I don't see >> >any recognition of this fact. >> >........................................................ >> > >> >1) Jim, why do you insist on discussing this on an forum for encryption? >> >> Because it's on-topic, that's why. Because it's not merely a list >> concerning METHODS of encryption, it's also about the _reasons_ for using >> encryption, as well as the _effects_ (both small-scale and large-scale) of >> using encryption. > >Actually AP is one of the more interesting topics here. I think that there >is a clear need for an AP bot. > >Do you feel like writing it? Desire? Yes. Ability? Maybe. Time? No. Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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Re: RC5-12/32/5 contest solved
by A. Padgett Peterson P.E. Information Security 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Jim Bell rote: >Assuming it's possible to build a chip which tests solutions in a >massively-pipelined mode, the 400,000 or so solutions per second tried (for >what is probably a $2000 machine) would probably increase to 100 million per >second per chip (at a cost of maybe $100 per chip, if implemented in >parallel). That's 5000 times more economical, which would translate to a >find in 2-3 days if the same dollars in hardware were invested. Hi Jim, still on your list 8*) Funny thing is that 3 1/2 hours for a 40 bit search is the "real world" number I was using two years ago (can look it up in various archives) so is interesting that the first real test came out exactly the same. Is why I said 40 bits should not protect anything worth more than U$250.00 Have good reason to believe your estimate for a purpose built machine this year (expect 600,000,000 to 1,000,000,000 kps per sieve - these will not be cheap chips but will be commecially available). Expect 400 arrays would be required to do DES in a day (average) but is a lot more achievable than the 65k postulated by the gang of nine. Still would not be too concerned about using DES so long as every message encrypted (including orders for a tuna on rye) and each uses a different key - is "security by obscurity" in a way but am comfortable with it. Besides, if really concerned will just superencrypt. Warmly, Padgett "I love it when a plan comes together."

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Censorship
by dlv＠bwalk.dm.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

OKSAS <oksas(a)asimov.montclair.edu> writes: > On Thu, 30 Jan 1997, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: > > OKSAS <oksas(a)asimov.montclair.edu> writes: > > > On Thu, 30 Jan 1997, Anonymous wrote: > > > > I cannot understand how some of my (accurate) criticisms of Sandfort's > > > > censorhip polices---some in direct response to his own self-serving pos > > > > declaring himself not to be a flamer himself---are not making it to the > > > > "New and Improved Censored List," while inane posts from Toto, Thorn, a > > > > someone named "Nurdane Oksas" are appearing. > > > > > > WEll....that's not so bad ;) > > > > I find Oksas's posts to be very interesting. > > Thank you. You are very welcome -- Sandy is a jerk for tossing your mail! > > > > > (Oksas has the especially annoying habit of quoting entire posts and th > > > > appending a one-line piece of completely list-irrelevant fluff. Also, > > > Is it so annoying...? why did you read it to that point??? :) > > > Why could you not be so anonymous and tell me? My posts are > > > a bit brief; Blancs' are far better, next time read hers. > > > > > > > engaging in lovey-dovey posts with Vulis, who writes messages about how > > > > longs to see Oksas naked.) > > > > > > Huh?? You are being a 'fluff' here ;) > > > > "Anonymous" is lying - I never posted any such thing. of course the > > cocksuckr moderator passed on the "anon's" lies to the censored mailing > > list, and I bet he's goingto auto-bounce my refutation to "flames" > > - just as everyone had predicted. > > Anonymous is a jerk. > > > So are gilmore and the sandfart. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

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Re: Cats Out of Bags
by Vladimir Z. Nuri 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

as I've said before, I really hate the "cat out of the bag" saying, as Aaron's recent comments indicate. ONLY A TYRANNICAL GOVERNMENT WOULD PUT THE CAT IN THE BAG IN THE FIRST PLACE maybe we can distill this into a new saying, instead of the favorite "cats out of bags". I've said repeatedly that pro-crypto advocates using the "cat out of the bag" analogy is actually damaging to the position that the constitution guarantees crypto freedom via free speech and privacy. it encourages the government side to do exactly as Aaron is doing-- arguing that the cat is not out of the bag, when *that's*not*the*point* how about, GOVERNMENT SHOULD STOP SUFFOCATING CRYPTO CAT!!!

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Clarification on The Politics of Export Restrictions
by Rick Hornbeck 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I am submitting the following a second time as the first one did not seem to get posted. ============== I agree the strategy would have to be hijack-proof. Something like Gore experiencing a convenient "change of heart" towards the end of this current term and convincing Clinton and the administration to soften crypto export restrictions which would make Gore look like a hero to the high-tech community just in time for the election. Naturally this would have to be carefully scripted but the objective would be to keep the democrats in power. Just a theory. >>Return-Path: <owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com> >>Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 23:43:43 -0800 >>From: Greg Broiles <gbroiles(a)netbox.com> >>To: Rick Hornbeck <rnh2(a)ix.netcom.com> >>Cc: cypherpunks(a)toad.com >>Subject: Re: The Politics of Export Restrictions >>Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com >> >>At 09:44 PM 1/29/97 -0800, Rick Hornbeck wrote: >> >>>Is it possible the unreasonable crypto export restrictions are simply being >>>imposed at this time for the purpose of making Al Gore look good when he >>>runs for President in 2000? >> >>I suppose it's plausible, but it's an opportunity open to both candidates, >>and more plausibly (because of lack of collaboration) to the Republicans - >>e.g., Dan Quayle and the "Crypto Freedom For Americans" platform, promising >>to rescue Silicon Valley from those evil regulatory Democrats. >> >>If I were an evil politician trying to set up a trick like you suggest, I >>think I'd want a scheme that my opponent(s) couldn't hijack and use against >>me. >> >>-- >>Greg Broiles | US crypto export control policy in a nutshell: >>gbroiles(a)netbox.com | >>http://www.io.com/~gbroiles | Export jobs, not crypto. >> | >> >> >>

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Re: Cats Out of Bags
by Sandy Sandfort 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SANDY SANDFORT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . C'punks, On Thu, 30 Jan 1997, Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote: > as I've said before, I really hate the "cat out of the bag" > saying, as Aaron's recent comments indicate. Interestingly, the saying, "to let the cat out of the bag" is related to the saying, "to buy a pig in a poke." A poke is a sack or bag. In times past, street peddlers would sell a mark a young pig. The pig was supposedly put into a poke, but in fact, a bag with a cat in it was substituted. By the time the mark figured out his mistake by "letting the cat out of the bag," the peddler was long gone. The lesson the mark learned was "Don't buy a pig in a poke." The better metaphor for crypto is that the genie is out of the bottle. Alternatively, that the crypto bell cannot be unrung. S a n d y ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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