- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

Edited Edupage, 4 February 1997
by E. Allen Smith 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: IN%"educom(a)educom.unc.edu" 5-FEB-1997 01:10:14.09 To: IN%"edupage(a)elanor.oit.unc.edu" "EDUCOM Edupage Mailing List" >************************************************************ >Edupage, 4 February 1997. Edupage, a summary of news about information >technology, is provided three times a week as a service by Educom, a >Washington, D.C.-based consortium of leading colleges and universities >seeking to transform education through the use of information technology. >************************************************************ >GATES SAYS OLD LAWS ARE GOOD ENOUGH FOR THE NET >Microsoft's Bill Gates: "It's always surprising how old concepts carry over >into the new medium. It's overly idealistic to act like, Oh, the Internet >is the one place where people should be able to do whatever they wish: >present child pornography, do scams, libel people, steal copyrighted >material. Society's values have not changed fundamentally just because it's >an Internet page. Take copyright. Sure, there should be some >clarifications about copyright, but the old principles work surprisingly >well in the new medium. Anybody who says you have to start over -- I don't >agree with that." (George Feb 97) Looks like he hasn't thought about enforcement problems, which may fortunately prevent the application of unnecessary laws to the 'net. >CULTURE CLASHES ON THE INTERNET >At a session of the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, the issue of >censorship on the Internet was debated from East/West perspectives, with the >Eastern view represented by such countries as Singapore, Iran, and Egypt. >Denmark foreign minister Uffe Ellemann-Jensen said, "Whenever you want to >stop the free flow of information, you must ask yourself what is possible. >The usual answer from politicians is we need international rules. I say, >forget it. It won't happen." Iranian mathematics professor Mohammed >Lasijani countered: "In the west, the issue is sometimes how to globalise >liberalism: how to export an ideology. I am not a liberal, and I do not >believe liberalism is the only way to a decent life." (Financial Times 4 >Feb 97) Well, yes, neither did Adolf Hitler. Sorry, cultural differences won't wash; individual liberties are more important than culture or national sovreignty. >Edupage is written by John Gehl <gehl(a)educom.edu> & Suzanne Douglas ><douglas(a)educom.edu>. Voice: 404-371-1853, Fax: 404-371-8057. >Technical support is provided by Information Technology Services at the >University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. >********************************************************** >Edupage ... is what you've just finished reading. To subscribe to Edupage: >send mail to: listproc(a)educom.unc.edu with the message: subscribe edupage >Edgar Allan Poe (if your name is Edgar Allan Poe; otherwise, substitute >your own name). To unsubscribe send a message to: listproc(a)educom.unc.edu >with the message: unsubscribe edupage. (If you have subscription problems, >send mail to manager(a)educom.unc.edu.)

1 0

No Subject
by nobody＠huge.cajones.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

IDEA vs DES vs Blowfish vs RSAREF Which of these symmetric algorithms are the hardest to break and what are their characteristics. //Anon

1 0

Re: Silly Americans
by Bill Stewart 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 09:37 PM 2/4/97 -0500, Rick Osborne wrote: >The original poster was talking about the UniSys GIF >patent, and this was the reply: > >>Broaden your view. I can do anything I want with the GIF format >>without asking _anyone_, and so can almost everyone in the world - >> except those poor americans who chose to live under a "broken" >>patent law which allows protecting _algorithms_. Totally silly. Not true, of course - other countries also have broken patent laws that permit patenting algorithms. For instance, IDEA is patented in places besides the US. The differences in the US are that perhaps our patent people became stupid earlier, and that US patent law allows you to apply for a patent up to one year after publishing, while European patent laws don't let you patent anything that's been disclosed to the public. >a philosophical note, why *do* we allow the government to regulate >algorithms? (Implementations, I can understand, but *algorithms*?) Because they're bigger than we are and better-armed? Because there's lots of money to be made by people patenting things? Because big companies can use it to interfere with competition? Because it's good for the economy because it encourages inventors of algorithms to publish them and make money by doing so? (I'll take the first three of those arguments :-) # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com # You can get PGP outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto/pgp # (If this is a mailing list, please Cc: me on replies. Thanks.)

2 1

OECD Waffles
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

2-4-97. Reuters: Global group fails to endorse Clinton encryption plan Washington: An influential economic research group is preparing guidelines on computer encryption for its member countries but will duck some of the most contentious issues involved, according to a draft obtained by Reuters. The Clinton administration, seeking to rally support for its controversial policy on exporting encryption products -- which encode and decode e-mail and other computerized messages -- failed to win an endorsement from the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), although the group did discuss the administration's approach. On perhaps the most difficult issue, the draft guidelines do not favour or oppose a requirement in the U.S. policy that data-scrambling encryption programmes provide a way for law enforcement officials to obtain keys to crack the codes when necessary. After indicating that governments should carefully weigh the costs and benefits of imposing so-called key recovery, the draft report said, "this principle should not be interpreted as implying that governments should, or should not, initiate legislation that would allow lawful access." On all the controversial areas in the draft, "the member countries of the OECD have strongly held views but they don't always coincide," John Dryden, head of the group's Information, Computer and Communications Policy division, said in a telephone interview from Paris. Some countries see widespread use of encryption as a way to protect the privacy of computer users and businesses, thereby encouraging global commerce, Dryden said. But others see encryption as possibly thwarting law enforcement's efforts to catch riminals and global terrorists, he said. The guidelines suggest encryption users should have access to products that meet their needs. Government controls should be "no more than are essential to the discharge of government responsibilities." Instead of reconciling the different views, the draft guidelines lay out competing interests and approaches. "It's not in itself a cryptography policy and it's not an attempt to draft a model national law that we're encouraging people to adopt," Dryden said. Cryptography refers to products and systems used in encryption. The guidelines also suggest encryption standards and usage should be "determined by the market in an open and competitive environment." "There's a strong view that the private sector should have the possibility to use information networks to the best of their potential in order to create growth and jobs," Dryden said. U.S. officials who have seen the preliminary draft praised the guidelines. "They're an important and helpful step forward," Undersecretary of Commerce William Reinsch said. "They're helpful because they put down on paper the proper foundation for getting into this," he added. Reinsch said most countries will follow the U.S. lead and require so-called key recovery features for law enforcement. Under the Clinton policy, domestic use of encryption is not regulated but the strongest coding products cannot be exported unless they include key recovery. U.S. companies that have opposed the Clinton policy, contending it stifles their ability to compete with unfettered foreign firms, drew little solace from the draft guidelines. "This is not helpful," said Netscape Communications Corp.'s public policy counsel, Peter Harter. Netscape and other companies preferred stronger language endorsing free-market policies, he said. The draft guidelines, approved by a group of government and private-sector experts at a meeting at the end of January, still must be approved by a top-level OECD officials from the group's 29 member countries, including the United States. -----

2 1

NFIC Warning About Sexygirls web site
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I had to laugh when I read this... Cheers, Bob Hettinga --- begin forwarded text X-Sender: themet(a)pop.mindspring.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 01:50:36 -0800 To: fraudnews(a)silverquick.com From: Mark Taylor <themet(a)mindspring.com> Subject: NFIC Warning About Sexygirls web site Reply to: Mark Taylor <themet(a)mindspring.com> Here is an interesting twist on how some crafty scamsters can rack up money on your phone bill =========== National Fraud Information Center Monday, February 4, 1997 PORNO SURPRISE Consumers who visited a pornographic website (www.sexygirls.com) last month got a big surprise on their phone bills. After a few teaser pictures, surfer was told he/she needed to download a special program to view the archived images. That program was actually a viewer with an entire communications suite hidden deep inside (a non-self propogating Trojan Horse). The program disconnected user from his/her ISPs, shut off the volume on the modem if it was computer controlled, and dialed a number in Moldova -- a small, former republic of the Soviet Union wedged in between the Ukraine and Romania. All the while the consumer was on the website, and even if he/she then browsed other sites on the World Wide Web, the Internet access was being provided through the Moldova number, resulting in huge international phone charges! Consumers didn't know that until their phone bills arrived. According to the Toronto Star Business Reporter, there are Canadian reports of bills into the thousands. The Toronto star also reports that the Royal Canadian Mounted Police has requested all calls from Canada to that number in Moldova be blocked. Bell Canada is attempting to provide relief for Canadian consumers. US consumers should contact their long distance providers if they find these unexpected charges on their bill. The RCMP has also required the owners of sexygirls.com to place a disclaimer on the site, alerting consumers to the presence of the communications software in the viewer. The disclaimer also tells consumers how to disconnect if they do not wish to use the server in Moldava. In November, Internet Fraud Watch warned consumers concerning the possible dangers of downloading programs over the Internet. Some tips: Don't download unnecessary items. If it's just a piece of razzle-dazzle, don't bother. It will only take up space on your hard drive and perform no useful function. If there's no gain for you from the program, there's no reason to take a risk. Only download from sites you know and trust. While even a major corporations site can sometimes have a viral infection, a lone programmer might be using an attractive piece of code as a delivery vehicle for his pet virus. Don't download material directly onto a computer network at work. First download it onto a stand alone PC. Test it out. Make sure it doesn't have any malicious side-effects. Check that machine for known viruses. Only at that point should you install the downloaded program on a networked machine. If you feel you must download files, keep track of what files you have on your system and what files are created during a program installation. That way you can easily uninstall any program if you find it to be undesirable. This also helps in detecting new installed files that aren't supposed to be there. Remember, your main worry is an executable file (i.e. a program or application). Despite what you hear all over the Internet, you cannot get a virus from a piece of e-mail. If you are having a problem with calls to Moldova, the connection will only be made if you attempt to use the viewer. If you try to use the viewer, shut down your machine after you are finished at that site. If you wish to remove the viewer altogether, the file name is david.exe (for IBM users). If you are in Windows, it should be in your program folder. FraudNews is owned and published by : Mark Taylor: themet(a)mindspring.com All material published is copyright.It must not be reproduced in any form without the express permission of of the owner. ============================================================= This Newsletter is broadcast using the List and Newsletter Management facilities of Silverquick Communications You may subscribe to FraudNews and the Fraud-Discuss lists on the web pages at : http://www.silverquick.com ============================================================= --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "Never attribute to conspiracy what can be explained by stupidity." -- Jerry Pournelle The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/rah/ FC97: Anguilla, anyone? http://www.ai/fc97/

1 0

Cypherpunks FOIA request
by Greg Broiles 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On 1/18/97, I sent freedom of information act requests to the FBI (main and San Francisco offices), CIA, NSA, and Secret Service, asking them for copies of information in their files relating to or referring to the cypherpunks list, the cypherpunks meetings, and copies of any messages sent from or to "cypherpunks(a)toad.com". To date, I have received three responses: one from the SF office of the FBI, indicating that they have no records responsive to my request; one from the NSA, indicating that they are processing my request, and one from the Secret Service, asking for a copy of my signature. (I've got no clue why they want that; unless I screwed up, I believe my initial request was signed.) Copies of my requests and the responses are available online at <http://www.io.com/~gbroiles/cp-foia/>. I'm not sure what I think about the response from the SF FBI branch - it seems unlikely that they'd never have paid any attention to the list, given the media coverage in Wired and other places. On the other hand, maybe the FBI doesn't read Wired. :) While they're not supposed to be monitoring noncriminal domestic activity, I figured they'd at least have something about the Mykotronix stuff. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 4.5 iQEVAgUBMvhHPf37pMWUJFlhAQGBSAf/XIdNAMrxn3flb6O7Q1TZYL1xd/RHAAZv YsuuXs/n6Dih/SnJVqc35tF5/33N0gK0xWhyPCBWdIitVCgHpt+214WEOg3IWBqO KGcnbXg/YMs4xN50zLgpV+Xoim4rjfwCROqNNWvrBqwo6RicAyJbLRoRGE+KdDkx WSslCzxsVYzRHzzkF48rhbYAXqU2vUesG0t8Alg17R/2w4TvjAzlQ3PpclUukB8U VglMVB+dicn+5B2zITt1WG21xMmSHQea5rpwKpDxZdjBvBKXLhgH8L1Hdl6nu3zI sqDEENxeV+bI5UdSzemQDy+TDQoy7BSN7Tby8JgwXE9x3AitY2A05g== =S1Zy -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- Greg Broiles | US crypto export control policy in a nutshell: gbroiles(a)netbox.com | http://www.io.com/~gbroiles | Export jobs, not crypto. |

2 1

Re: John's: In anarchy -everyone responsible
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 09:05 PM 2/4/97 +0000, Attila T. Hun wrote: >on or about 970204:0312 Greg Broiles <gbroiles(a)netbox.com> said: >+ Is the desire for an anarchic community at odds with a desire for >+ good use of resources? Actually, it is quite possible that an "anarchic community" is _more_ efficient in the use of resources than some sort of organized community. It is explained, for example, that the reason there are so many different kinds of life on earth is that there are so many ecological niches to fill. > In a "popular" anarchy, Jim Bell's assassination politics make > perfectly good sense; but, a "popular" anarchy is not an _anarchy_. I guess I don't understand the distinction you are trying to make, between a "popular anarchy" and an "anarchy." Maybe you were trying to distinguish between "dictatorship of the few (or one)" and "dictatorship of the many (perhaps a majority)" but it didn't come out very understandably. Put simply, "anarchy is not the lack of order. It is the lack of _orders_." > anarchy is only possible in an ideal world where _everyone_ > assumes not only responsibility for themselves, but for the common > good. no malice, no greed, no need for assassination politics.... No, that's traditional thinking and that's wrong. See AP part 8. Freud believed (as "everyone" else believed, even myself, before AP) that anarchy was inherently unstable. But it ISN'T, if the tools of AP are used to stabilize it. And no, no altruism is necessary for AP to work as well; no individuals are being asked to sacrifice themselves for the common good. Rather, they are given the opportunity to work to achieve a reward offered, cumulatively, by a number of citizens. Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

2 1

Re: More on Cellular Encryption Docs
by Bill Stewart 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>>>Here's more on the controlled documents for cellular encryption >>>from TIA/EIA we described in a 26 January post to cpunks: ... >>Of course, ITAR as recently modified says it's ok to send this >>stuff overseas to foreigners, as long as it's on paper. >>There may be separate restrictions on sending it, or on copying, >>but they're based on copyright or contractual non-disclosure. > >Given that high-density inkjet printers can do 600x600 dpi resolution, it >should be possible to achieve the equivalent of 100x100 bpi of >easily-recoverable data on ordinary paper. That's about 800 kilobits, or >100 kilobytes. What does ITAR say about this? These are text, perhaps with occasional illustrations, so the current interim export rules say it's ok. For optically-scannable printed data, the government's announcement says it reserves (somehow) its right (acquired in unspecified manner :-) to re-evaluate the exportability at a later time. I think they haven't settled on whether they'd be more embarassed by banning it (which bans export of printed material, risking serious Constitutional challenges) or by not banning it (having people laugh at them while exporting source code or even binaries in OCR-A on loose-leaf paper with page numbers and checksums.) Of course, by moving crypto off the Munitions List, and allowing export of printed material, they're also reducing their exposure to ridicule for not responding to Raph's T-shirt CJ request.... (huh-huh... made you say Unconstitutional ... huh-huh....) # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com # You can get PGP outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto/pgp # (If this is a mailing list, please Cc: me on replies. Thanks.)

1 0

Re: Moderation, Tim, Sandy, me, etc. * Strong crypto == DES?!
by E. Allen Smith 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: IN%"mclow(a)owl.csusm.edu" "Marshall Clow" 5-FEB-1997 04:04:13.13 >At 4:05 PM -0800 2/4/97, aaron(a)herringn.com wrote: >> >>If I might make a suggestion: >> >>Some people want moderation. That's fine, I've never been very big on >>letting other people choose what I read, but some people want it. >> >>For those who want it, let someone moderate the list for as long as >>they care to do it. Approved messages get a "X-sandy-approved" >>header. The responsibility for setting up a filter to toss everything >>that doesn't have the header is the responsibility of the end user. >>Toad will need to filter incoming posts to make sure they don't come >>"pre-approved", but that's the only hole I can think of. >> >>Everyone gets all of the Cypherpunks list. Those who want moderation >>filter the unapproved posts, those who want all of it get all of it. >> >>Hopefully, this will make (almost) everyone happy. >> >I like this idea. >However, I would suggest an additional refinement: > Implement a cypherpunks-moderated list which >is all the 'approved' messages. This way, people who wish >to have the benefits of a filtered list are happy, people who >wish to have posts rated for them (but be able to check on >the "rater") are happy, and people who wish to see every >message are happy. > >(I know that John has concerns about toad's mail capacity, >and this may be too big a load) Lance's offer for informix to host the unmoderated version of the list may be of assistance here. >ObCrypto policy: > Was anyone else besides me amazed by the guy >from Deloitte-Touche at the Internet Privacy Coalition luncheon >last week? I mean, he all but advocated violent overthrow of >the government. D-T is the most "establishment" of the big-6 >accounting firms, last time that I looked. What all did he have to say? -Allen

1 0

Re: AltaVista Tunnel
by Anil Das 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Rick Osborne wrote: > > He triumphantly exclaimed that the encryption was 128-bit, but when > I said "128-bit what?" he cowered and muttered that he didn't know and went > on with his little speech. The rest of my crypto-specific questions met > with equal dark stares. And these are the people setting industry standards... I should be happy that you are bashing a competitor and all, but give them a break, OK? The marketing dweeb who has to do product pitches on roadshows is not the same as the design engineer who designs the system and sets technical standards. There can be a big difference in technical knowledge about the product, and even basic competency, between the two. -- Anil Das

3 2