- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

re: Billy boy's satellites [Was - Floating DataHavens]
by bugs＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> > > Vincent Cate wrote: > > You can get Internet via radio links for reasonable prices. And via > > satellite for almost affordable prices. When Bill Gates 900 satellites > > get up there it should be very affordable. > > Gary Howland wrote: > ... if a tad unrealiable? > The thought of 900 satelites in low orbit, all running NT, makes me > shudder. Brings a new meaning to the expression "OS crash". > Its been a little over a year but I had heard that the current design was for a lower number of MEO satellites. I would think that cypherpunks would want to see this happen. The political problems are probably larger than the technical ones :-) Regards, Mark Hittinger Netcom/Dallas bugs(a)netcom.com

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Rubber Hose Algorithm
by gimonca＠skypoint.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

There's a lot of armchair theorizing on this list about government oppression and such. For comparison purposes, here is a real-life example: ========================================= From: hrwatchnyc(a)igc.org Sent: 15 Agustus 1996 7:00 Subject: Indonesia--Arrest of Lecturer for Internet Communication Human Rights Watch sent the following letter, protesting the arrest of a university lecturer for communicating on the Internet, to the Indonesian government today. August 14, 1996 His Excellency M. Arifin Siregar Ambassador to the United States Embassy of Indonesia 2020 Mass. Avenue, NW Washington, DC 20036 Your Excellency: I am writing on behalf of Human Rights Watch/Asia to protest the arrest of Drs. Prihadi Beny Waluyo, a lecturer at Duta Wacana Christian University. Drs. Waluyo was arrested at his home by soldiers of the district military command. He was reportedly accused of distributing e-mail messages and also of sending messages relating to the July 27 riots to a destination in Holland. His arrest came after an unidentified person gave an officer photocopies of e-mail messages that were traced to Drs. Waluyo. The person claimed the printouts came from a store in Kebumen, a district of Yogyakarta. Following his arrest, Drs. Waluyo was interrogated by the military about his connections with the Peoples Democratic Party (PRD), which the government has accused of masterminding the riots, but he denied any involvement with the PRD. He acknowledged that he had sent messages over the Internet. Following his questioning, he was reportedly ordered to go to his home and was told to report to the district military command on a regular basis. He is said to be under strict surveillance. Human Rights Watch opposes actions by the Indonesian government to restrict electronic communication. As stated in Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights: Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression: this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers. We believe that such forums provide a truly unique opportunity for people from around the globe to share their views with an international audience. By allowing unrestricted communication, important issues can receive the benefit of serious discussion by the broadest cross-section of society. If the Internet is to achieve its potential to become a global information infrastructure, it is important, at the present moment, to agree to allow its unrestricted development. We urge that Drs. Waluyi and every other citizen be allowed to receive and transmit electronic mail without fear of harassment, intimidation, or arrest. Sincerely, Sidney Jones Executive Director Human Rights Watch/Asia cc: His Excellency Nugroho Wisnumurti, Ambassador to the United Nations Gopher Address://gopher.humanrights.org:5000 Listserv address: To subscribe to the list, send an e-mail message to majordomo(a)igc.apc.org with "subscribe hrw-news" in the body of the message (leave the subject line blank). Human Rights Watch 485 Fifth Avenue New York, NY 10017-6104 TEL: 212/972-8400 FAX: 212/972-0905 E-mail: hrwnyc(a)hrw.org 1522 K Street, N.W. Washington D.C. 20005 TEL: 202/371-6592 FAX: 202/371-0124 E-mail: hrwdc(a)hrw.org ========================================= ObCrypto: On the brighter side, some individuals on soc.culture.indonesia have become remailer users. Others have been forging Usenet headers with varying degrees of success.

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Re: Protecting floating datahavens?
by Vincent Cate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> From: William Knowles <erehwon(a)c2.org> > Now I don't claim to be a naval defence expert, But from what > I do read of the dogeared copies of Jane's Defence Weekly, > Would be to install three or four Phalanx Close-In Weapons For those interested in todays piracty I recomment "Outlaws of the Ocean" by G.O.W. Mueller and Freda Adler. The main types of ocean outlaws: 1) Smuggling (freon, dugs "square groupers" - bales of pot, ...) 2) Immigration (illegal immigration can be very profitable) 3) Insurance Fraud (tanker sinks, but unknow to the insurance company the oil had already been offloaded...) 4) Violent crime - what I think of as piracy Piracy is not a victimless crime. Since there are victims, there is someone to shoot at the pirates. Makes it a tough business and not as profitable as, some others. Most piracy occures in "known dangerous areas". Other piracy is drug dealers taking very fast boat so they have an unregistered boat. There were some stories about freighters being attacked in one area, but once they started all carrying guns, the attacks ended. After reading this my impression was that the odds of car-jacking or mugging inside the USA were higher than the odds of a cruising boat getting attacked by pirates. Pirates are going to pick what looks to them like easy targets. A Phalanx or two on the side of a large boat would not look like an easy target. :-) In fact, just one semi-automatic mounted on the side would probably prevent all attacks by pirates. -- Vince ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vincent Cate vince(a)offshore.com.ai http://www.offshore.com.ai/vince/ Offshore Information Services http://www.offshore.com.ai/

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signoff cypherpunks
by Arnauld Dravet 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

signoff cypherpunks

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c|net reports UK partial usenet ban
by Mike McNally 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

UK Metropolitan Police Service bans smutty newsgroups. See it all at <http://www.cnet.com>. ______c_________________________________________________________________ Mike M Nally * Tiv^H^H^H IBM * Austin TX * For the time being, m5(a)tivoli.com * m101(a)io.com * <URL:http://www.io.com/~m101> * three heads and eight arms.

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re: National Socio-Economic Security Need for Encryption Technology
by James A. Donald 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 10:49 PM 8/14/96 +0600, Arun Mehta wrote: > I was trying to explain how incomes and prices happened to be > lower in India, That was not an explanation, that was mystic word salad. It would be an explanation if wealth mysteriously rained from the sky, rather than was produced by men. James A Donald wrote: > > The fact is a company like Informix has a campus in India, and > > it has campuses in the US that are largely staffed by Indian teams, > > and it will pay big bucks to get its people out of India, even > > though it has to pay them more than ten times as much in the US. Arun Mehta wrote: > I imagine (not knowing why Informix does what it does) that the > reason might have something to do with: > > 1) Bringing the programmer closer to the customer, to understand > the problem better, or to commission the software, debug it under > working conditions, whatever In fact what gets sent to the Indian campus is largely legacy work, which is in large part precisely the work that requires the closest contact with the customer, contact with actual working conditions, and the like. This seems to be a general practice, not just an Informix practice, for in an article on "India's silicon valley" I read that the work done in India was largely done on existing legacy apps, often in obsolete languages and operating systems. This is of course the work that places the least amount of the companies intellectual assets in India, and thus the work that gives the Indian government the least power over Informix and its activities. Informix could abandon the Indian campus and all the intellectual assets on which it was working, and all the physical assets located there, at any moment and not suffer any serious loss or inconvenience. It is overwhelmingly clear that the question is simply who has the power? Those who wish to hire peoples services in order to produce wealth, or those who can command peoples services because they have guns? That is what makes most people in some places poor and most people in some places affluent. > Could you please be more precise? In what way does the "power of > the Indian government" intrude? You use the term "proven" rather > loosely... there could be other explanations for the company > wanting to move its employees around. Presumably the same kind of reasons as caused foreign companies to flee India the first time around. --------------------------------------------------------------------- | We have the right to defend ourselves | http://www.jim.com/jamesd/ and our property, because of the kind | of animals that we are. True law | James A. Donald derives from this right, not from the | arbitrary power of the state. | jamesd(a)echeque.com

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Re: Imprisoned Capital
by Bart Croughs 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Duncan Frissell wrote: >There is no straightforward link between amount of capital invested and >productivity or wages. If there were, some steel plants in the Soviet Union >would have had the best paid and most productive workers on earth. It's not a coincidence that you mention the Soviet Union. As I said in a previous post, Austrian economists like Murray Rothbard, Hans Hermann Hoppe, etc. don't consider government expenditures to be *investments* of capital; they consider all government expenditures to be *consumption*. >Additionally, countries which prevent capital outflows don't receive capital >inflows and thus become poorer. >DCF This is a good point when you talk about governments that will prevent *all* capital from flowing out. But a government could prevent the outflow of capital of it's own citizens, and still allow capital of foreigners to leave the country. As long as foreign capital isn't imprisoned, foreign capital could be attracted. Bart Croughs

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Re: National Socio-Economic Security Need for Encryption Technology
by Bart Croughs 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Sandy Sandfort wrote: >On Tue, 13 Aug 1996, Bart Croughs wrote: >> You claim that I must show that foreign capital investment >> will not flow back to US workers. But in my original post, I >>said: > >> "Of course there are advantages also for the US (shareholders >> will get higher returns, trade will increase), but how can you >> proof that these advantages will offset the disadvantage of the >> lowered amount of capital in the US? " > >> You haven't answered this question yet. I don't claim that the >> U.S. is worse off when US capital moves abroad. I only ask: how >> can you proof that the US isn't worse off when US capital moves >> abroad? >The movement of capital from the US was an *assumption* in Bart's >argument. He has done nothing to show that it would in fact >happen. When he proves that, they it would be reasonable to >expect me to offer proof that foreign capital will flow to the US. So you are saying that no American capital is invested overseas? That would be a remarkable claim. But maybe you mean that I assume that there is a *net* movement of capital from the US to other countries. That is, you think that I assume that more US capital is invested in foreign countries, than there is capital invested from foreign countries in the US. But I don't assume this. I just assume that *some* American capital is invested overseas. That's enough for my question to be relevant. And even if there is absolutely no American capital invested abroad, there is still the question for other countries: if investors in country A decide to invest their capital abroad, how can you proof that this wouldn't have a negative impact on the standard of living of the workers in country A? >While I'm sure per capita capital investment is a *factor* in >determining how high wages are, it certainly is not the only >factor. It appears that Bart has fixated on this one to the >exclusion of other (probably more important) factors. For my argument to work, it really doesn't matter *how* important the amount of capital invested is in determining wages. My argument works the moment that you agree that, other things being equal, the higher the amount of capital invested in a country, the higher the wages will be in that country. Bart Croughs

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Announcement: Mac-Crypto Conference Sept 5-6, 1996
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The Membership of the Mac-Crypto List invites you to The First-Ever- Last-Minute- Under-the-Radar- Ask-Forgiveness-but-Not-Permission Macintosh Cryptography and Internet Commerce Software Development Workshop September 5 & 6, 1996 Apple R&D Campus, Cupertino, CA, USA This is a free workshop, but we'd *really* like it if you register (see below). SOME INVITED SPEAKERS Martin Minow Tim Dierks Marshall Clow Kay Guyer Will Price John Callas Quinn Sari Harrison Vinnie Moscaritolo Bob Hettinga Lucky Green Kee Nethery ...and the inevitable mystery speakers... (If you find your name on this list, and we haven't gotten ahold of you, you're invited to speak ;-).) (Also, if you're not on this list and you should be, you're invited to speak too!) WORKSHOP TOPICS: Introductions and overviews: Introduction to crypto technology, what is it who are the players. Introduction to electronic commerce and finacial cryptography How to use electronic commerce technology today Opportunities for the Mac Tech stuff: How to write internet software on the Mac Random number / password generation on the Mac (the key to strong crypto) Password management and the Mac Intenet Config - the next generation, working group Secure networking Open Sessions: We scheduled lots of time for developer demos and open discussions. ...and plenty of time for developers to network with Apple. We have also left time open for last-minute speakers. If you would like to present a paper or give a talk, please contact Vinnie Moscaritolo at <mailto:vinnie@apple.com>. For more details and registration: <http://webstuff.apple.com/~opentpt/crypto.html> The workshop is free. Please register now, though. Local Hotels: Cupertino Inn, 800-222-4828 Pretty much Across the Street. Cupertino Courtyard by Marriot, 800-321-2211 5 Minute Drive Inn at Saratoga 408-867-5020 About 3 Miles See you in Cupertino on September 5th and 6th! Vinnie Moscaritolo Apple Developer Tech Support http://www.vmeng.com/vinnie/ Fingerprint: 4FA3298150E404F2782501876EA2146A ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "'Bart Bucks' are not legal tender." -- Punishment, 100 times on a chalkboard, for Bart Simpson The e$ Home Page: http://www.vmeng.com/rah/

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$10K offer if you can break the code
by Scottauge＠aol.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

MMMmmmm.... Money! > Big Brother is reading your e-mail. The POUCH will protect you. > Win $10,000 in our break the code contest. No purchase necessary. > Free software. See web page http://www.flagler.com/security.html >

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