December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

96rock (96.1)--"The Home of Capital Punishment"
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

_The Atlanta Journal-Constitution_ 6/20/97 "Contest Controversy: Radio Promotion Is Called Tasteless" Miriam Longino, Staff Writer Atlanta radio station 96rock is making waves with a contest that asks listeners to predict the year, month, day and time when convicted Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh will be executed. The winner gets a free trip to cover the event. Rock Station WKLS-FM (96.1)--calling itself "The Home of Capital Punishment"--is running a 45-second spot 12 times a day to pitch the contest. [snip] ...96rock promotions director, Pat Ervin, ...says he feels the station is "playing on the sentiment of the majority of the public." "We saw an opportunity," he says. "It's obvious that people are very passionate about this thing. So we decided to use a creative mechanism to tap into that." [More follows]

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No Subject
by Fuck Jesus 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In celebration of the DES Challenge success, I am sending out copies of a 1983 Time-Life picture of a naked boy and girl playing in a risque position that indicates the boy could have his penis inserted in the girl's rear. In celebration of the crack of weak financial cryptography that leaves businesses vulnerable because of the U.S.'s ignorant and fascist crypto policy, I am encrypting the file using a 4096-bit key produced with an encryption package I downloaded off of a European ftp site. So, while some thief is using a computer to steal your life savings, I will be sitting back drinking champagne and enjoying pictures of naked children that Time-Life profited from by selling them to middle class Americans in the 80's. I am sorry that I feel the need to encrypt the picture with strong cryptography acquired from a foreign source, but I am just a normal citizen and not a major corporation, so I would go to jail for sharing this with you even though I am not profiting from it as they did. -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 MessageID: x+sKjpaOsVgSNXEtf9IIyu8BCbLD5Hof qANQR1DBw04Dbz9N1j3WOD8QEACNw87oSavhuIxVZVX/9dhwrMBoAtaWaDStOQuA sp2qprt1LPQCIqlXs8tgvEvR+fNtL1aZkrYPYbC57AMVXCyYyPxVF6pPlJIlYNI8 tdOjSRFDlns7kD4xC3nNESBkHwH3GW1s9/wD8R7AO7yarnMu1YnaQgUJDjWIVaes qnaeSfEEtG3XMHpdQ6dyNg3OR5lYxDBuwPntVlFXUS7RtqjVS69glngFRb3aBCqZ NCmjAnnPLAnfAv464kcFHESbzXLtkF3+1ApBoNPgiF7W2G66MP5WkV7XO1BIM3eb wBFKW/H1deWzXNQgZxeyKQo0cmWDwitPYiztTmepL2Cjoc4pR/6CsqnFdBTuEN8P RmDIsGXWpQv4i7lMOs4P12YGGkhm3q0utpSikmlHnoJGDMe2nkAbkUMeJDnP1Hj+ qmuoqKgdAM9I6//aMfVeFR6zKe6VvfFI3kO07nzS/X9DC3/GnyhSco38US1033q0 FRRR6p/uwl/zF7H6c7Z12uMsiUgsobd+d0dy2z8GdDBKOIManPmNtLbgx85VhMyJ 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Re: CDT Policy Post 3.08 - Senate Committee Approves Key Crypto Bill
by nobody＠huge.cajones.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Declan McCullagh: > From: "Shabbir J. Safdar" <shabbir(a)vtw.org> > Subject: Re: CDT Policy Post 3.08 - Senate Committee Approves Key Crypto B ill > > A little more of polisci 101: > > These 8 members of Congress didn't just vote in our favor here, they've > placed crypto on an agenda at a higher level than something else they > wanted to get through the committee. Imagine being Sen. Burns, and knowing > that you have just placed your own agenda at risk in order to stand up for > crypto, knowing there's a non-neglible chance you might lose. > > By sheer definition, you've placed crypto on your agenda higher than > something else. Not only am I really damn happy to see this, but very > happy to know that 8 senators think so little of the key recovery that > they'd jeapordize their own agendas for it. > > We owe them a great big debt of thanks, not the derision that goes with > Alice in Wonderland political punditry. Imagine! Shabbir's obvious amazement that a senator would put support of our Constitutional rights above his own "agenda" is very telling. Like most of those senators, he's been in Washington too long. It seems not to occur to those in D.C. that the very idea of congress deigning to tell us how we can communicate with each other is utterly offensive.

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No Subject
by FuckClinton 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I have sent along a nice picture of a naked family that comes from a nudist magazine. Unfortunately, one of the family members is a young child. Since, if viewed by a person who is not capable of controlling their carnal sexual impulses (President Clinton, for example), it might be considered to be a vile, filthy example of child pornography instead of a pleasant portrait of a family comfortable with their nudity, I have encrypted it with 3072-bit strong encryption with a program obtained from a source outside of the United States. If it were not for the distinct possibility of the photograph giving President Clinton and Newt Gingrich a hard-on then I might feel more comfortable using weaker, 'government approved for export' encryption such as is used to safeguard billions of dollars in the financial community. -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 MessageID: u+p2B/cfqZ0JMdmSRc//whEVIF2tfI0C qANQR1DBwk4DuKtkWJ+QAh4QDAC5M3+oOk3ys/I+hCcHiqEuc23mX01TbAla8qgx wP+xlpUpIbLLMvyX+oDaCoyOFmVNUfk1PiCSR+g4gH+HFzXG/XUS7RJrU2g6FLln /Twfmdf6Cqqsj3K5QX1PXwm8Pl21E47VUYdBoiR/ZO8+7kJYBUqUuiBFVNjI+FzQ 43O/8jGQ4codp9BrfFRNNbMWkUSxMRJzkbyrHIKh4grd0HLwIDvf9vLzEJVHxRER vZK+87Z8RMNensUQCQSStqmTwKkt0nXm417vMuSSvGm/02OP6gIoTjGNALzzjwoi neR6xAHpnV6N99WzbjE04Gi3hGumEv15BOb/65O4xsO6ANMvRScJULZkUjV9HGDd viCw96/LoHppLPyNWfG0rc+BdD+kwIdD2jZd6Gb25BZMMFfJ7g1SrMKcT0T1SZKw uIuiTHIqFpnA78gdy+7WTBWnvOWCCNlhg7sV6O3JV90Q6gJJ/34TgAc0wahRXwXH Gwx4xoeWcM8s3vNNY4cIxCyfa/cMALtOuFI+++yY11Lpy0Y8CCub3zUF/1CT1/JD ksDMSFZWXyQbS9P0eb2a5qfAG6T5YyyzIVutnuQ+jnYOz+St7qCxkxZRE//PbNue sUwemrTWHv1p5jqEHKSZskGSu5ZBj1cJn9MTGVdRFxOTK8blvyXazgwXbkHBmOFn Jmeeo7ckWrm0RBTAW241qABmfKFFooSkBEfTrmNfGjJzkPe5vt4/3YNyAmte6+MH VmAsa/fXH4ouM9m4apmz2u5Z8gE6bc1isQNz6uwlLimQtrkG2W3RBS/51zar3iR/ 94J55+MdpNnWTj7jsRIXCDw4oIotfRk6/S4LhpfbNBEJSX+uu+KfaLSGCs3/fZVd rZaq09OSiW0UP1G5BGVnPmh02lk+d7jpWvZvYsgBuTTrvT30qIel+nce1cmjvxfI hujRuVF4RDH3hEWbC0s0KNNUAQcj92ypk8DR3hIOozikOvxqn5wesIB/b13za5hE 7xQdaCayag7G68IKzGOKvyM1wGIBFsnsS+Lp4Tg7RGrFK05eQTmvmEngcBWFUEez 6WQIUv2HC31I96RbNBeDD/KMOCHeNAkun/G6iw7dRURoziSiFBWWP1xZZne7+Nu8 1zz7PBB9f51AYWZRP2zaNErKT0fP5eN36CVX/jjL3Yu0sigakerjyj6dvoKzx1Z+ AA2WvROxdzn7asUw4s7Rin3Iz7LU/po8ebfTlmDIukzwrEAG65VkCHwiWN0SCt8L uYQJ8LiIaeY8FRjJejqxSPwjBtKBa3owBlUk1WcXbr13tAYo7175Rxa13QvHPnax JwQ3U56nD12rymBMGKByGztRoFOyddb6mRpUzq+tntKo2zRxsGcXySd2EGwvyz/5 nMUhTijPynXcK/g3+FnyOJt7uUCkaqGTDsqEMtQJUX5iIFpIKUIyi3rcoA3Zw1sd aT+sCJuSwz3AkNepHXJarc6cXEdxLduim4jeChZNCg22Db/bBHvl1ZovljGljwha UoNO+4KiDJAAfR0OYh0Ul51x6GwhF4QCc8W+65G/MQP2GI0sVUvfxXXAgeILAzD3 jVPAbYV35j8m1qNBGSrnB6OdX1iUtmT1fGB90CaT1cf4f5vKseqjxpoBpKeyLgmD DjQdho9v/8YxyYIcraTa/1lsR14wdCFTQx4G7/emKdKzV0jmZmZ3OOh+Uzg4xVuo FfvEyQMG7JFIBM4R8oDT373qe++EKo2fUfBPU/Or6/u0V33mpwqjJrFUWOy6WFai ZPtMkIcx8ri5ubNcjCx3NYu4YjlbTInW0hK/3slOYZm5xCuwUq//XCiuUXpS3AP1 SwJdiZaLKZHXQcj5R0QrSHw5X+oV3+trJvB/MjYZ2XNbw3B8PITOoIETlQ3MCeR2 zoLZhOiw05KZOiEx5BOLLybwY/YjY5Uq5Qe+O7UeEAehl5SeYK95nADWkiC7Pblc umchOenWRKHQXo1wWwR5ri8yVjtg2JTszlYZJHvg4QpUz1N36DHjrmmGw/MeXZ9J dPS0RLoJops5x+skI78poqX9ZBhwTn2LZvpDikNXnBE5blwrDfX0WDyOrjZHb2vG dJHAbcCmtfZKY6UWtddN70Ma8gbHH30jmAO3HL/BLVUM3P46hDvHRkmZ34lnoNIq +JqhMlIYrQ1YzftNDAUvBLBI3LXtTkYsqtLdZbRxolfkxBMVmpyJpR7aljYNqrvE SM0Ub8+ddszKQbycnpi6p0yVEo9HFFU9t9ErriCMNmK9FccCHElZ4gDuVUXF0bIQ mXABJNGputjd9+Oe+7r1vIr1bRjq6T/jzqepOns35A17zFECF1KvxU3IdjKUx1x7 QjWe5w/XCCBSdAw2gqQB3GIDtaRbRDvt3z9yhkoI0+EsWJod5SgR5bklj08IMph+ z232qCOqeeixcjD253tCemuxXReSOM8f52elZWf5CwZCEKxWjhxGu/CAQSffwmux yxMqeJqxK76y0jv9tC1OVaEhWVYNzzPkJiimP1JACT1XtHTUO3r5kDNbc+qKgPYI fmRUwDo9G+ppXltx0SVKM1TWoOnEdKRHnR8T/FjeqeitJ8bil1wYwyIgc8E37QBF t6gH3+R5Kf1hml2JGXELRYGyiV+TuSuRGsdoIJWrpkPCEcHX5VsqhWOyEAEI0u5v PLR9/YIP5ntQiyq6/bywIw8K4Dkrx0aGv0A3bpWnja5EgBkXzbGpeKvD+Mu9RGDP BikdtkRqqBi0Jj3BClcXhxN+/ZgsEMHHlwtuDzIaoop27zWyLc3XofHT85vzv8UL pt/WHoDmRvs5aIc7fg7e94S2NyLmLmLWaY4JJVBEmSRkVh3x0/dPPD1GrK7nzb6I ny5deZaCQYlHVsNXSvNemZidJBBAq6eWfScsenDigQ1JaOzBnwYZSuofXGYX/qLa zgutJ4lrJgjuj6E4AYQb3oGYD3EGHZWajJmlBbPKfxjHO2hmjvtJyGA9LhTpORuu AXuqiqDjQGID9h/zCzZKIH00GkviGHst/pPxP7xh6Dk9+Exy+abk1rTZnlln/QJh /5YypCC8kUz5ApVwyDtz4OUlnk2qvOxioVQOJ55geW+qAbrQTYHrR+f7wkhf39ev kVjQVwABPhZIYNLtgaDuXGBwpQw0PgNQB1cF1ImMWx+UfFBjg2NPzI6+0u3cItLr 7gYOlTRJmjJGNdeRv6TkvzvBmCVAtO+ZCJyrz1ATzchhpu4H6Nz0N8Vw8WkMjm/U AKOiJqB/D5EcxLzArSZ8RHL1TqCxxumw26cBjvbzwKvqRBDvvyP4eV/8Pydf+Qy6 Un9PeuD5wU2wzwgkkKlf4huc2z5p6ad3sUysj0/QyNjEGUWEvTakL9D+ktY+hAS+ 6PigU8wVu2c/AZK4vfgn0PSAZjpeie9kL7qz9fmmHuFk3j3jC8z3R5ThWnRiwzwM riOWc2cRPQk0Os18c3ldh02eBST0Vg1/asTEr2ONA7AT1Y1okHl/oRR2JCHDfj0M lMsLVCC7oRcNCtJIYvd89GIq6HPHOblEBgPNasutXvAJWmNnKrQJvojp83ICaKXP 9Wh5jEgbHCFaRkE/aYkdyYvmphKCiW6rL8dhN21flGITCPIOE4j+8jy1rtAtRvSS xx+g/phNraQf9dC0yZyClBAgbMDLdmNOxp+VMtlPU2PfDT2Tm6DVfcjkS4tbXyqN aiDXI4lJgFQ5XkeC9RNAeDmZ/yct36QASd9tSuAbcoKwmSPJ47+IHbPbqXMo8+8K YI14UkRpZ3T4/l913w4INE48+WwIJmEL9+Welfhb2t2E/8JFMD6C1JQDl4r25FJx Pf72wTTKbW783bNyxC3lkJ8uKrsiG/vqNC38KsvnUFB90KZ8iHbdAZMR9Yhzgoch /bfLKvcwIDORGzllhzhxbhPWNXtbdndKrhixAJ+s4Z3/WhuIfUQG+RgQl2rMMTNS ezm2nClt34EX+an9BX9V2bu4fhxrCB1Zp9S0ie/+dgjdj3j33RRPZoE5BK40j04a WJzLjmkWQeS5IXxqyDUhWBZyJyAZhfUzmUIV7GgEAbUFj0n0edIF2X+W9Zsgd1Tg foTH5TGbxInLDB2r5dmbz5UMIrGLFE1Y3RQjV8OHhINGi2N7prunOMAl4Tk2UAad sHbMGuix5QxjDkPfcNb88jHIcM6x4mhXdBLQO1NxVCejnYRxK08/Uk49nQCBrIU/ d4VqnIMaTTzt/Ewy2tkpEUd4aCsEXM/DTTmymVKHtsM10w8JNpnaS+5nnPyS5i5S bXEWDl7kiW+ExWh/3hPBOiMWSjAglmBdvMDshdww8g1b7gJhsRvBvHSCbLk= =12UE -----END PGP MESSAGE-----

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Newsletter
by actn＠artnet.com.br 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Please don't hit reply, send all inquiries to a7(a)mary-world.com http://www.mary-world.com/ans Are you interested in receiving our monthly free newsletter on the latest Computer technologies and the internet. Please send an email requesting to be added to our database, or check our web site for the latest news. If you have signed up already, please disregard this request. Download our catalog from our Internet Website http://www.mary-world.com/ans HARDWARE TRENDS BREAKING SPEED LIMITS Early benchmark tests on a prototype 300-MHz system are promising This fall will mark the arrival of a class of machines based on Intel's 300-MHz Pentium II processors, and early benchmark tests on some of the prototypes show healthy-- if not astounding-- performance gains over previous-generation Pentium systems. At NEC's invitation, PC Magazine had the chance to run tests on the company's new 300-MHz PowerMate Professional, due to ship in September. Although the configuration we tested was preliminary, the machine posted some impressive numbers. On the ZD High-End Winstone 97 test, the PowerMate earned a score of 34.8. This test runs a set of applications that heavily exercise the CPU and graphics subsystem, but purely CPU-intensive tests were really where the machine did well. On our CPUMark32 test, it posted a score of 735; on CPUMark 16, the system earned a speedy score of 556. To put these results in perspective, note that our recent test of the 266-MHz Dell Dimension XPS H266, resulted in a CPUMark32 score of 719, as opposed to the NEC system's 735, and the Dimension was the fastest by a wide margin in a group of systems based on Intel's 266-MHz Pentium II processor. The Dimension did, however, post a slightly higher score on High-End Winstone 97 than the PowerMate--36 rather than 34.8-- thanks to its advanced graphics subsystem. Most of the other 266-MHz system in our roundup posted speed scores well behind the PowerMates. Again, the configuration is still preliminary. More Adrenaline This Fall In the fall, Intel plans to ship its 440LX chip set, which supports Accelerated Graphics Port (AGP) technology and will work with a new dedicated bus for graphics. The speeds posted by 300-MHz machines-- especially on graphics tasks--are likely to benefit greatly from these technologies, as bus bottlenecks currently undermine high-speed processors. Although tests show 300-MHz system to be marginally faster than 266-MHz Pentium units, the new chip set should provide a healthy shot of adrenaline. Many customers will want to time their purchases of 300-MHz machines to correspond with the chip set's arrival, but NEC's $4000 PowerMate is likely to ship in advance of the chip set. Also note that Intel has been speeding up price drops on its high-end chips in recent years, and 300-MHz systems should be substantially cheaper than $4000 by 1998. They promise to be an important step for Intel as it faces increased competition in high-end chips from AMD and Cyrix. ***************** MEMORY************************** HIGHEST QUALITY. LIFETIME WARRANTY Call for any type ofMemory not listed.Memory for Laptops and Desktops, All AppleMAC or any POWERBOOKS. EDO/ or fast page Simms 72pin Memory 2k, 60ns 8MB $35 16MB $65 32MB $119 168pin Dimms, 60ns 16MB DIMM $75 32MB DIMM $135 64MB DIMM $265 *************** COMPUTERS *************** Pentium 200MMX 16/3GB 20xCD, 15" Color Monitor, 33.6 Fax/Modem $1499/$54mo. Compaq Laptop, P120, 16/1GB, 10.4 Active Mtx, 8xCD ROM $1645 Compaq Laptop Presario P150MMx, 16/2GB, 10xCD, fax/mod $2495 Toshiba Tecra Laptop 730CDT, P150Mhz, 16/2GBCD TFT $3995 Apple Powerbook 1400/cs 16/750CD/Color/FM $1795 Apple 9600/233, 32/4GB 12xCD, $3399 Apple 8500/120Mhz 16/1GB CD $1695 Apple 6200/75Mhz, 14" Monitor,8/1GB, CD, 14.4 Fax/Mod $799 1- WE CAN E-MAIL YOU A COMPLETE CATALOG. 2- WHOLESALE PRICES ON PENTIUM LAPTOPS & DESKTOP. APPLE POWER MACS, MEMORY AND ACCESSORIES. 3- REPAIR ANY TYPE OF CPU, MONITOR, DRIVE,PRINTER FREE PICK UP & DELIVER FOR LOCALS, BEST RATES. 4- WE SHIP WORLDWIDE, OVER 11 YEARS EXPERIENCE SINCE 1985 CALL FOR OTHER CONFIGURATIONS- We carry Full line of Toshiba, Texas instruments, IBM, Radius, Daystar, Umax,Seagate, Quantum Samsung, or many other computer Printers,Scanners, Monitors, Modems Software, and peripherals.We accept Visa, MasterCard, Discover, American Express,Diners,Cash, Cashier's Checks, Money Orders, COD. Active Network Solutions Inc. , 1611 Crenshaw Blvd #224, Torrance CA 9501 U.S.A Tel. (310)764-4357 Please send all inquiries to: a7(a)mary-world.com Internet Website http://www.mary-world.com/ans IF YOU LIKE TO BE REMOVED PLEASE SEND AN EMAIL AND WRITE (REMOVE) IN SUBJECT AREA. 10

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Encryption Test
by FearMonger 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I have attached a file that contains the sysadmin password for the main computer at Visa's head office. In order to prevent the information being abused, I have encrypted it with Pkzip so as not to have to fear running afoul of vague and indeterminate crypto legislation. I am doing this in the hope that by showing my willingness to support the government promotion of weak encryption I will thus be trusted with even more highly sensitive information in the future. I also used a short and easily-guessed password to show my support for government access to keys in the hope that it will lead to wider recognition of my value as a team player in government projects. If I am ever in a position to be hired for a job that involves access to the secret codes for launching nuclear missles, I hope that I can count on letters of reference from cypherpunks list members declaring my suitability for working in an area that requires one to show proper fear of and submission to authority. FearMonger

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Re: [EFGA] WE won our court case!! (fwd)
by Bill Stewart 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>From: "Robert A. Costner" <pooh(a)efga.org> >To: action(a)efga.org >Subject: [EFGA] WE won our court case!! > >EFGA was granted a preliminary injunction in our court case >against the state of Georgia. Details and press release to follow. Yee-hah! If you ignore CONgress, we've had a good week, between this court and the New York CDA courts doing the right thing and the DES crack finishing. >Let's meet somewhere tonight to celebrate! Obviously y'all should meet in the Atlanta Underground, wearing masks :-) (though I won't be there, since it's a bit far from the West Coast...) # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com # You can get PGP outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto/pgp # (If this is a mailing list or news, please Cc: me on replies. Thanks.)

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Mail server down :(
by William H. Geiger III 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hi, My ISP is in the process of switching backbone providers and as a consenquence all my mail is bouncing. This more than likely will not be fixed until Monday. Thanks, - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBM6q7SY9Co1n+aLhhAQFWNwP+Mg19u/wKUBH/CkO2VimaIurS8AI5GR7J G7EU4dysnq3+yx5BU6vtGpkMVNLRjv8t5Q5BuT1jMfkXn5NKdt1XbUQATVsQz1X0 N3p1ojP+4DXekn4DO02N3s/5hxHT/jYX5k9EPUSgpwbp8KzG2y9DttVhz+pUeXZC O0kOCo6XJyg= =OD5S -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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It's not over
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Let's cut all the doom and gloom here. The bill isn't passed yet. It's got to go through at least one and possibly two more committees before it reaches the senate floor, where we'll have another chance to defeat it. Even then the house has to pass similar legislation. That will be yet another chance. When Clipper was proposed, a wave of anger and opposition swept forth. The same thing needs to happen now. This fatalism is self defeating. Either you're part of the solution or you're part of the problem. People who say there's no use fighting, who give up, who oppose the efforts of the crypto lobbying groups in the name of ideological purity, are not part of the solution. They have no right to complain if this law passes. By sitting aside and carping at the efforts of those who are trying to stop this kind of legislation, they are only helping to bring it about. There is no reason this new bill should be any more acceptable or more successful than Clipper was. We only have to fight it.

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Re: [EFGA] WE won our court case!! (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > From: "Robert A. Costner" <pooh(a)efga.org> > Subject: Re: [EFGA] WE won our court case!! (fwd) > Reasonable men adapt to match the world around them. Unreasonable men try to > adapt the world to themselves. Therefore, only unreasonable men bring about > change in the world. I may be unreasonable, but I'm not pathetic. This is an interesting insight into the underpinnings of a democracy or republic. The secret to success and ultimate limitation of government authority is people standing up and saying "Hell NO!, I won't take it any more." In short, for democracy (any democracy I suspect) to work it REQUIRES people being unwilling to compromise. So many people labor under the impression that compromise is how they get to where they want to be. Very successful indoctrination I suspect... ____________________________________________________________________ | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http:// www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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