December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

law as enemy: was Re: Jim Bell reference
by Antonomasia 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Paul, Ant> Makes me think the issue is the preservation of many Ant> thousands of _unathorised_ taps. What else could explain that viewpoint? PB> Don`t cloud the issue: The simple fact is strong encryption can and will PB> obstruct law enforcement agencies in their "fight" against terrorism, PB> child pornography, drugs etc... good. Strong widespread crypto will cut down on much crime in the form of electronic theft, blackmail etc. I expect some obstruction of law enforcement, but not enough to outweigh the benefits. Despite the occasionally glaring failures of a legal system it is still overall of use to the public. Ant> Incidentally, I'm against terrorism, child molestation etc etc. Ant> I'm confident most other cypherpunks are too, so no nonsense please Ant> about free crypto supporters being backers of [crime of the month]. PB> Once again, you fail to give adequate qualification to this statement, PB> what forms of terrorism are you against: one mans terrorist is another PB> mans freedom fighter. Were the French resistance during WWII terrorists? Not everything is relative. WW2 was a clearly recognised war, in which France had been invaded. PB> Would you then say their actions were wrong? As for child molestation, PB> this is a clear cut case, most libertarians follow the basic rule that a PB> crime has to be a direct act of agression, and infringe the rights of PB> another person, therefore child molestation clearly comes into this PB> category, distributing pictures of children being molested, raped, PB> buggered, tortured and killed is clearly not a crime. Please clarify your PB> position on this. Such photography would suggest at least cooperation with those you'd regard as criminals. My position is toward the Trei/Sameer end of the scale and away from the extreme anarchist views of you, TCM and Jim Bell. Not that you 3 are always wrong, but in the issue of 'law always enemy' I completely fail to see where you get your ideas. Sufficiently clarified ? PB> Above are two examples of why strong cryptography is a good thing, law PB> enforcement should be routinely obstructed as often as possible. Are you going to post your home address and holiday plans on the list so we give you the chance to gloat over failing law enforcement ? There's probably not much point in pursuing this discussion. -- ############################################################### # Antonomasia ant(a)notatla.demon.co.uk # # See http://www.notatla.demon.co.uk/ # ###############################################################

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by promo＠globalserve.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Re: law as enemy: was Re: Jim Bell reference
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Antonomasia wrote: > Paul Bradley wrote: > Ant> Makes me think the issue is the preservation of many > Ant> thousands of _unathorised_ taps. What else could explain that viewpoint? > > PB> Don`t cloud the issue: The simple fact is strong encryption can and will > PB> obstruct law enforcement agencies in their "fight" against terrorism, > PB> child pornography, drugs etc... good. You are both right. Strong crypto will obstruct LEA's from doing the *millions* of unauthorized taps on communications in their "holy war" against ?crime?. > Strong widespread crypto will cut down on much crime in the form of > electronic theft, blackmail etc. I expect some obstruction of law > enforcement, but not enough to outweigh the benefits. Strong crypto will merely shift the nature of crimes being commited from LEA-originated to criminal-originated, which is the way God has planned it to be from the beginning. If we are going to play good-guy/bad-guy, there ought to be a real difference between the two. Kids on a playground know that much. > Despite the > occasionally glaring failures of a legal system it is still overall > of use to the public. Attitudes like this are the cause of the erosion of our freedom and privacy. "Give me compromise of freedom or give me death." <WRONG> "It is better for ten innocent men to be convicted than for one guilty child molester to go free." <WRONG> Why do we never hear anyone saying "Sure, the legal system just fucked me silly and unjustly ruined my life, but it is 'still overall of use to the public'."? The reason is that a roll of the dice isn't good enough when it comes to *ourself* receiving justice. Anyone who is comfortable for a roll of dice to decide the justice received by *the other guy* is a fool and your enemy. > PB> Would you then say their actions were wrong? As for child molestation, > PB> this is a clear cut case, most libertarians follow the basic rule that a > PB> crime has to be a direct act of agression, and infringe the rights of > PB> another person, therefore child molestation clearly comes into this > PB> category, distributing pictures of children being molested, raped, > PB> buggered, tortured and killed is clearly not a crime. Please clarify your > PB> position on this. > > Such photography would suggest at least cooperation with > those you'd regard as criminals. Bullshit. The current hot-ticket item in Canada is video of the girls being tortured, raped and murdered by Paul Bernardo. These videos are coming from the people involved in his prosecution and imprisonment. Are the TV networks cooperating with criminals by profiting from the pictures of the OKC bombing, etc? Their extensive coverage certainly makes such actions a good public forum for the potential terrorist. > PB> law > PB> enforcement should be routinely obstructed as often as possible. > > Are you going to post your home address and holiday plans on the list > so we give you the chance to gloat over failing law enforcement ? I have no doubt that Paul would love to do so, if it weren't for the fact that he would be subjected to imprisonment and lawsuits if he took action to protect his home and property from intruders during his absence and some ignorant thief got himself hurt or killed. Legislators and LEA's bemoan the fact that the constitution ties their hands in fighting crime, but the fact is that they are creating a mountain of new crimes through legislation and stings instead of putting their effort into dealing with real, existing crime. Miscarriage of justice is the rule of the day in the current legal system. The fact that the reins of power and control of the media is not in the hands of the poor, minorities, and social outcasts means that those who are busy participating in and/or supporting the gross miscarriages of justice are those who paint the system's public face. > There's probably not much point in pursuing this discussion. Not as long as you willing to settle for corruption of justice and the compromise of freedom being justifiable as being of "overall of use to the public." I don't choose to sell my weapons and walk around with a "kick me" sign on my back, trusting in strangers to defend my life and liberty. I resent those who choose to do so intimating that I am some kind of lunatic/radical for choosing to take personal responsibility for defending my life, liberty and beliefs. I am not against joining with others in forming organizations which are of mutual benefit to all. I am merely against these organizations being in the hands of self-serving criminals who want control over all of my movement and communication in order to guard their usurped power. I am willing to defend myself, my neighbors, my country. I am not willing to defend a corrupt system which imperils the freedom and privacy of myself and my fellow citizens. TruthMonger

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Campingsport Amsterdam
by Secret Squirrel 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

For those planning to attend HIP97, there is already a cypherpunk party coming from the West coast. Some details can be seen on the hip website http://www.hip97.nl People making other arrangements may be interested in this tidbit from the NL tourist board. X-From: I.Princen(a)inter.NL.net Mon Jul 14 12:33:37 1997 X-Sender: iprincen(a)solair1.inter.NL.net Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:32:09 +0200 From: Ingrid Princen <I.Princen(a)inter.NL.net> Subject: Re: Camping arrangements Good afternoon, Please contact: Campingsport Amsterdam Jan van Galenstraat 271 1056 BZ Amsterdam tel.: 020-6128911 fax : 020-6184509 Kind regards, Ingrid Princen Netherlands Board of Tourism At 08:00 PM 7/9/97 -0000, you wrote: >Dear Sir, > >I wonder if you could please tell me where to obtain >(hire or buy) tents near Amsterdam in early August >for a camp near Almere. > >10 man army style tents may suit us best. > >If you can pass on details of any tent shops or >hire shops that would be very useful. Payment will >probably be by credit card. > >Thanks much.

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update on Crowds
by Mike Reiter 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Back in April we circulated an announcement for a system called "Crowds" for browsing the web anonymously. Here is an update on its status. 1) There is a new, more complete version of the Crowds paper, and a new web page from which you can retrieve it. The page's URL is http://www.research.att.com/projects/crowds/ Of course, comments are welcomed and appreciated. 2) AT&T has finally decided to release the code, and we are working out a free license for noncomercial use with our lawyers right now. Once that is done, we would like to start alpha testing. Alpha testing will require some commitment from the testers, and we are looking for serious people who are interested in contributing to our attempt at providing anonymity to the Internet community. To be an alpha tester, you should have access to a machine - running SunOS, Solaris, or Irix - with Perl 5.003 or later - with a high-throughput connection to the Internet (no modems please!) - that is not behind a firewall Moreover, testers must be US citizens, due to the cryptography in the code. If you are interested in being an alpha tester, please send email to either of us. In your email, please describe the platform on which you'll be running. Mike Reiter <reiter(a)research.att.com> Avi Rubin <rubin(a)research.att.com>

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Making Imaginary Sex Illegal
by Alan Olsen 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/5153.html Making Imaginary Sex Illegal by Ashley Craddock 12:05pm 14.Jul.97.PDT Is there such a thing as child porn which doesn't involve children? Logic would say no, but adherence to the rules of reason has never been a hallmark of the United States Congress, particularly when it comes to hot-button issues like child protection. So maybe it shouldn't be surprising that Congress has made it a criminal offense to depict non-obscene, sexually explicit material involving anyone who "appears to be" a minor. Maybe it shouldn't be surprising that it made it a criminal offense to advertise materials in any way that "conveys the impression" that minors will be sexually depicted. But what about the fact that Congress explicitly designed the law to make computer-simulated child porn illegal? "Besides the completely unconstitutional prohibition on using young adult actors, we're basically talking about criminalizing pseudo-pornography," says William Bennett Turner, a San Francisco First Amendment specialist. "I laughed when I first read that Congress was trying to make imaginary sex illegal. I never thought the law would pass." But in a climate in which the US president can seriously tout the myth that fashion photography kicked off a heroin craze among teenagers jonesing to jump on the fastest, hippest bandwagon, the Child Pornography Protection Act was a sure shot. And at the end of 1996, the law quietly made it a felony to engineer, sell, or even posses computer-simulated images of smutty kids, or sexually explicit depictions of real baby-faced adults. The rationale behind the Child Porn Act, introduced by Senator Orrin Hatch (R-Utah), is by and large unoriginal: Pedophiles can use child pornography - or anything that looks like child porn - to seduce kids. Moreover, child porn, whether it depicts real kids, childlike adults, or computer simulations of kids, makes pedophiles a little too hot and bothered for society's good. But the age of morphing added a new twist to the old arguments. When perverts can whip up sexual turn-ons from composites of photographs of children or even from computer graphics programs, argued supporters, a new child-porn definition is crucial. Whether those computer-age fears have any more basis in reality than your average monster-in-the-closet didn't seem to matter one whit to Congress. Testimony that the Department of Justice had "not come across any pedophiles who have actually used the morphing technology" didn't slow the bill's passage. Neither did testimony by another witness, Jeffrey Dupilka of the US Postal Service, who voiced his official opinion that pedophiles "probably" knew about morphing technologies, and were "most likely" using them, but that he didn't "know for sure." No more concrete evidence made its way into Congress before the bill passed. Now, anyone in possession of child pornography could face up to five years in prison - more if they're repeat offenders. Producers and distributors could face up to 30 years in jail for repeat offenses. Alarmed by the Child Porn Act's ramifications for films that cast young actors as sexually active kids (before your favorite porn flick, think Lolita or Romeo and Juliet) the adult entertainment industry responded almost immediately. In January, the Free Speech Coalition filed a brief against Attorney General Janet Reno, contending that the government had far overstepped the First Amendment. The acting judge decided against a trial. Both parties, he announced, could file briefs in support of their position. So on Friday, the parties filed their arguments in the United States District Court in San Francisco. As the case has evolved, the government has moved toward the stance that it didn't really mean to outlaw sexually explicit images of young adults who might look like kids. What it meant to do was protect the world from explicit kiddie morphs. It's a ridiculous position, argues Turner. So along with the American Civil Liberties Union, last week he filed an amicus brief in support of a Free Speech Coalition's suit. "There is a real difference between touching children sexually and touching computer keys to create images: the former is wrong in itself and within the power of government to prohibit; but there is nothing inherently wrongful about using either a computer or adults to create sexually explicit images," the document contends. The court is scheduled to hear oral arguments from both sides 8 August.

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Register *any* domain name
by Lucky Green 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The Kingdom of Tonga has discovered a new stream of revenue. The lucrative domain name system. Say you want to get a domain name involving the words "Microsoft" or "Kodak". Or any other trademarked name. Internic won't help you. What to do? Never fear. The Kingdom of Tonga allows you to register any domain name. Trademarked or not. Their fully automated domain registration system, operating out of their San Francisco consulate, can be reached at http://www.tonic.to You can pay the registration fees online using their 128 bit SSL server. Need more than a domain name? Such as one of those hard to come by geostationary satellite orbits handed out by the ITU? TongaSat is leasing theirs! http://www.netstorage.com/kami/tongasat/index.html I just love free enterprise, --Lucky Green <shamrock(a)netcom.com> PGP encrypted mail preferred. DES is dead! Please join in breaking RC5-56. http://rc5.distributed.net/

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PGP 5.0 source available (but not online yet)
by Ian Goldberg 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I received a copy of the latest source (12 volumes) from a PGP, Inc. rep at the July Bay Area Cypherpunks Open Meeting on US Soil (12 July on Stanford campus). You can order your own copies through Printers, Inc.: Printers, Inc. 301 Castro St. Mountain View, CA. 94041 (415) 961-8500 <http://www.pibooks.com> PGP 5.0 Platform Independent Source Code Five Volumes, $94.00 ISBN 099649654-5-3 PGP 5.0 Win95 Source Code Three Volumes, $57.00 ISBN 099649654-6-1 PGP 5.0 Mac Source Code Four Volumes, $82.00 ISBN 099649654-7-X - Ian

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Electronic commerce has long way to go
by Marc Briceno 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

After watching Ian Goldberg's demo of all the neat things one can do on an US Robotics Palm Pilot PDA, I decided to purchase such a device. I headed to USR's website. The Pilot Pro is listed for $399. Always looking for a bargain, I headed to Yahoo and quickly found several "best deal" search engines. Some were better, some were worse, but they all pointed me to a number of suppliers selling the Pilot Pro for as little as $339. A $60 savings over list or my local CompUSA store. Below is my experience with the sites. The sites are listed in increasing order of amount charged for the same item. 1. No online ordering. Call us during regular East Cost business hours. 2. No online ordering. No times are given. 3. Has online ordering. CC# is sent unencrypted. 4. Has online ordering and a link to a secure server. Link is stale. 5. Has online ordering and a link to a secure server. Link times out. Guess I'll just swing by the CompUSA in the morning. This is pathetic,

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17 Dec '03

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