December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Another of Gary Burnore's Lies Exposed
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

gburnore(a)netcom.com (Gary L. Burnore) wrote: > X-No-Archive: yes > :> Sure it does in your mind and I'm sure in the mind of the anon-asshole. > : > :Call someone an "asshole" all you like, but when you have to qualify that and > :call him a "black asshole", "gay asshole", "Jewish asshole", or "anon > :asshole", it only demonstrates your personal prejudice and bigotry. Your > :arguments are so weak that you must resort to ad hominem argumentation to > :divert attention from the facts. > : > :Repeating your unproven accusations over and over does not make them true. > > One could say that about you. An asshole posting only anonymously is the > anonymous asshole. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ "Posting ONLY anonymously"? Wherever did you get that idea? If you really believe that this "anonymous asshole" is "posting only anonymously", then your previous accusations that someone else on this NG (who posts NON-anonymously) was this person were a LIE, weren't they? So which of your two contradictory statements is the lie? Or are they BOTH lies? They can't both be true. > Note that I have never and will never say that people who > post anonymously are assholes. You just did. When you have to single out alleged "assholes" as being black, gay, Jewish, anonymous, Italian, or whatever, you reveal your own prejudices against that group. For example, you never hear a white person say, "That white bastard just cut me off" while driving, do you? Such language is usually reserved for groups you HATE. For all your recent backpedalling and sucking up, your stance on privacy, anonymity, remailers, etc. remains quite clear. > :Are you claiming that all the DataBasix personnel no longer have access to > :the Internet simply because the databasix.com domain is down? Considering how > :lax Netcom is with their servers, any abuse you might allege could easily have > :come from someone with a Netcom account. > > Yawn. It could have as easily come from you. "Could have" equals "proof" in DataBasix-speak? (You did just move to the part of the country where burning alleged "witches" was once a popular pasttime, didn't you?) Remember that you're the person CLAIMING that this alleged abuse even occurred, so the burden of proof is on you. > :You might as well reconnect databasix.com to the net because having it down > :is not a credible alibi -- not when most of the players involved have > :Netcom accounts, and a few even have shell accounts from which they could > :have run Perl scripts. > > I don't require an alabi because I've done nothing to require one. If everyone bought into that attempt at "logic" (assuming your conclusion as part of your argument), we'd have no need for jails, would we? <g> It could become the universal response to "where were you on the night of XX/XX/XX?" > You on the other hand apparently feel you need to hide. Bovine excrement. Concealing one's name and e-mail address is no different conceptually from concealing one's home address or phone number. So if you truly have nothing to hide, please feel free to post that information, or else shut up about having nothing to hide. If you have nothing to hide, why are you so afraid of people reading your posts via from DejaNews that you cloak each one with that No-Archive header? I remember when you once criticized a fellow poster for "hiding behind" it, and now you're doing the same thing you criticized him for! > It's obvious to me and to many that you want to cause damage to the remailers. "Obvious to me" does not constitute proof. I posted Jeff's account of YOUR anti-remailer activities. He mentioned you and Belinda Bryan BY NAME. When you have similar evidence against someone else, naming names, please post it. You have yet to demonstrate that this mythical monster you're expecting others to believe exists is anything other than your own self-serving creation. It reminds me of what one philosopher said about the devil -- "if he didn't exist, we'd have to create one". > :Not as long as you want to keep it alive by claiming that you are a "victim" > :of some grand forgery, "UCE-baiting", "cyber stalking" scheme. Sam is right > :in doubting your claims that most of the things you allege happened to you > :even occurred. He pointed out that the one flimsy piece of evidence you've > :been able to produce more recently than February of 1997 originated from YOUR > :OWN DOMAIN! > > > You mean not as long as you keep posting lies. Huh? The "evidence" was posted by YOU and the analysis came from Sam. I wasn't even in that loop. Nice try. --

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Re: Singapore
by Phillip M. Hallam-Baker 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> Hallam-Baker obviously thinks that he can thwart my insightful, >barbed diatribes against him by posting empty messages to the >CypherPunks list, No, I was merely speechless. If you think that Singapore is a Libertarian paradise then you are not a Libertarian. I don't doubt that Duncan is capable of being an appologist for the Signapore regime just as there were a lot of 'Communists' who used to fawn over Stalin. The fact is that Singapore taps every telephone call, monitors every public place and performs traffic analysis to identify dissident communities. The fear of being identified in such a community is a major means of suppressing dissent. Duncan and Declan are merely indulging in a very popular passtime of idealogues, fawning over benevolent dictatorships. Phill

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Problems with PGP Finland site?
by Tim May 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Someone in alt.security.pgp reported that the Finland PGP site seems to be denying access. I tried http://zone.pspt.fi/pgp/ and got a "Forbidden" message. Could just be a temporary glitch. Or a switch to a different URL. Anyone know? But the paranoid part of me wonders if the hammer is finally coming down on these offshore "pirate sites." (Not piracy in any SPA sense, as PGP, Inc. is clearly complicit in publishing the PGP source code books and encouraging Cypherpunks to pick up stacks of them at Bay Area meetings for FedEx delivery to offhsore sites.....but the OECD/Wasenaar Cabal clearly views this sort of thing negatively. Perhaps Crypto Czar Aaron applied his rod to the cops in Helsinki and the site went"stale." :-{) --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Re: Hate speech in Germany...
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Peter Herngaard wrote: >Mr. Frissell asserts that Germany lacks rights such as freedom of >speech and association. This is not true. The German Basic Law >provides for everyone the right to freedom of speech, religion and >association. However, Germany prohibits hate speech i.e. National >Socialism and incitement to racial, religious and national hatred. I believe this is exactly what Mr. Frissell had in mind. Incidentally, I heard that last year there were a series of raids on bookstores for "hate" literature. One of the books seized was Art Spiegelman's "Maus". The justification was that it glorified violence. (Feel free to correct me if this is baseless rumor. ;-) >>Reply to Duncan Frissell: >>If the German people desired to abolish the Radikalenerlass they >>could do so simply by changing their goverment precisely as >>U.S. citizens could abolish use of capital punishment against >>minors. Is there any difference? > >There is a difference, in that calling for the abolition of laws >banning 'hate speech' can easily be labelled as 'hate speech' in >themselves. > >I think it's true for banana republics. However, as far I know >itsn't illegal in Germany to call for the abolition of all hate laws. >But calling for the abolition of human rights is certainly against >the law. !!! It sounds as if in Germany one may not discuss even the most basic political philosophy without violating the law. I'm not sure what is meant by "calling for the abolition of human rights". What would be some examples of things somebody could say and what would be the penalties? (Presuming you are allowed to give examples, that is.) >Yes. But if the majority of the voting population *really* wanted to >install a hate speech censorship regime, they could elect a House >and a Senate being able to change or amend the Bill of Rights. It >seems that criminalization of "flag desecration" to many is what hate >speech is in Europe. This is exactly correct. >In addition, we do not prohibit pornography, and obscenity is a >non-existent legal category. Another good point. Many in the U.S. have become so accustomed to these speech restrictions that it seems normal. Monty Cantsin Editor in Chief Smile Magazine http://www.neoism.org/squares/smile_index.html http://www.neoism.org/squares/cantsin_10.htm Subject: Re: Hate speech in Germany... To: cypherpunks(a)algebra.com 25BA1A9F5B9010DD8C752EDE887E9AF3 [Cantsin Protocol No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Problems with PGP Finland site?
by Tim May 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Never mind. Sorry. It looks like http://www.pgpi.com/ is still open for business, so paranoia is unwarranted. Though I wonder for how long Network Associates will continue to publish source code books and encourage their wide distribution around the world? Or how long source code will be available at all. Or how long the freeware version will be available. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Re: SynData/Schneier Attack Network Associates
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

cvhd(a)indyweb.net wrote: >I have never bought into any of the conspiranauts BS about >PGP backdoors as long as PZ was involved with it but I will >certainly assume it is to be a "given" with PGP in the hands >of McAfee. Has Phil Zimmermann responded to the months long criticism of PGP 5.0 for Business and PGP's acquisition by Network Associates? If not, what seems to be the most reasonable explanation for Phil not answering, to allay suspicions and sustain PGP's worldwide reputation? The explanations by others working with PGP, Inc. would surely be more credible if Phil expressed public support for their views. I still find it hard to accept that Phil would squander his personal reputation, and thereby the reputation of his invention, by refusing to provide a public accounting of what's happening with PGP Inc. And, no matter the legal and financial restrictions that might be contraining him. And no matter that PGP's competitors are probably encouraging some of the attacks. Security by obscurity, by indifference to public doubts, seems to be a surefire way to undermine Phil's years long struggle to distinguish himself from those less courageous than him who are pushing products less reliable than PGP has been believed to be until now. It's a haunting thought to consider that Phil may have been shown evidence by others that PGP is not as reliable as many have long believed, evidence that perhaps demonstrates what he knew all along. This is harsh suspicion and one that needs his response, if for no other reason to allay the fear that even prior versions of PGP are now suspect. PGP and Phil's personal reputation are at stake, not PGP, Inc., which is secondary. There are lots of folks whose freedom, if not lives, may be at risk due to his silence. Perhaps it's time for Phil to reaffirm that difficult choice between success and conviction, between making a killing and betraying others to do so. To remind those who think you can have both ways and get away with it is a cowardly fantasy too often hidden behind self-serving ethics. If Phil personally (not the PGP officer, not the distinguished scientist bullshit role, not the PGP employees) refuses to stand behind PGP as it has been known and trusted, then PGP and Phil should be denounced forever as a grand deception and treachery, even worse than the other crypto products eagerly shaped -- and openly proud of it -- to fit the specs of the paymaster snoops Phil himself once bravely challenged. I think Phil will come through now, as he has in the past, to distinguish himself and PGP (not Inc.) from the craven pack. If he doesn't, it's smart to give up using PGP in all its guises past and future.

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Re: words have value, for good or ill
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

A ghost speaking through the medium of replay.com communicated: >Consider: anyone might legitimately say they could understand why the >government opposes access to cryptography. It represents a threat to >their monopoly power. But if someone said they were becoming >convinced that restrictions on access to crypto were a good thing, >we'd be attacking them in an instant. These are two completely >different issues. One is a matter of understanding evil motivations, >which we can all benefit by. The other is a matter of advocacy of >evil. That must be opposed, and in fact this list has been a strong >force for such opposition. I see the list as a place to discuss ideas rather than as a propaganda vehicle or a political party. >The problem this raises is that it is difficult to know where May >stands on any issue. He makes contradictory statements, refuses to >reconcile them, even refuses to admit that they are contradictory. >Which is his true view? No doubt, whichever one turns out to be most >convenient in the end. Next you'll be telling us we should not obediently follow his every command! Whose side are you on? >What a weak and childish individual this is, this man who is said to >be the most respected of the cypherpunks. You might be happier if you did not associate with a group of weak and childish individuals. I have no doubt that Tim May contradicts himself from time to time. And, when he changes his mind he does not announce it to the list and carefully credit each person who influenced his views. Sometimes he is insensitive or even rude ("chop chop"). I've never seen him apologize, either. Probably he doesn't have the circuits to do it. But, so what? He's still the most interesting contributor to the list. I can well understand why you don't put him in your killfile. Perhaps instead of name calling, you should actually address a point or two and discuss it. If you think McVeigh did the wrong thing, it would be interesting to hear why. And it would interesting to hear why you believe that a McVeigh killing innocents is wrong, but a U.S. Air Force doing the same thing is right. Monty Cantsin Editor in Chief Smile Magazine http://www.neoism.org/squares/smile_index.html http://www.neoism.org/squares/cantsin_10.htm Subject: Re: words have value, for good or ill To: cypherpunks(a)algebra.com 25BA1A9F5B9010DD8C752EDE887E9AF3 [Cantsin Protocol No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Mises and Batman
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:46:31 -0800 to: misesmail(a)colossus.net from: news(a)mises.org subject: Mises and Batman Sender: owner-misesmail(a)colossus.net Precedence: Bulk This has to be a first in the history of the Austrian School. The new issue of THE BATMAN CHRONICLES, a quarterly, features "Berlin Batman," a story revolving around the Nazi confiscation of Ludwig von Mises's papers from his Vienna apartment in 1938. Batman attempts to rescue the papers from a German government train, and says of Mises, "I once met him, and I've read his work. He's a brave man to oppose the party in these barren times." Batman sees in Mises a comrade in arms. We won't give away the ending, but in a recap at the end of story, there are excerpts from Robin's 1998 "unpublished" "memoirs of the Batman": "Ludwig von Mises escaped to the United States when the Nazis ransacked his apartment in 1938. It was his landlady, a friend of his mother's, who told the authorities Von Mises was working on a new book which challenged Nazi social and economic policies. They slowed him down, but they couldn't stop him. He continued work on a book which was eventually published in '49, called 'Human Action', now considered one of the great libertarian works of our times." There is much more, and it is all beautifully drawn and written by Paul Pope. It is available at comic book stands everywhere. The price is $2.95. Cheers to D.C. Comics (1700 Broadway, New York, NY 10019)! --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: <http://www.fc98.ai/>

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A Medal -- Or A Prison Cell?
by Brian B. Riley 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

---------------- Begin Forwarded Message ---------------- Date: 12/06 1:10 AM Received: 12/06 11:39 AM From: James A Chappelow, chappja(a)mail.auburn.edu Reply-To: Vermont Libertarian, vtlp-list(a)catamount.com To: Multiple recipients of, vtlp-list(a)catamount.com >From the Liberator Online: A Medal -- Or A Prison Cell? Larry Gates, a 54-year-old ex-Marine, operates a convenience store in rural Iconium, Missouri. He's also a volunteer fireman. Last Christmas Eve he was listening to a licensed fire department radio when he heard a report that police were chasing two suspected murderers. Police had lost track of the suspects. From his knowledge of the area, Gates was aware that the car would pass directly in front of his store. Gates grabbed a shotgun and sidearm, and along with his three adult sons pulled two vehicles into the intersection, blocking it. Both vehicles had fire emergency lights flashing. A few seconds later the suspects' car approached the roadblock. Gates' son Carey motioned for the car to stop. Instead, the car suddenly accelerated directly at Carey. Gates fired his shotgun once at the car. The car swerved away from his sons, went around the roadblock, and continued down the road. Two of Gates' sons followed the car at a moderate pace. The car was driving erratically. Soon it slowed enough for the passenger, a woman, to leap out. Gates' sons stopped. The woman suspect was slightly wounded from Gates' shotgun. One of Gates's sons, an Emergency Medical Technician, administered first aid. The other son resumed following the car. When he came across the abandoned car, he called police. Shortly the other suspect was arrested. The two suspects, who had been abusing drugs for days, confessed to two homicides. The woman said the driver had planned to commit suicide by crashing the car. Did the Gates family get medals? No. The St. Clair, Missouri prosecutor has charged Larry Gates with "unlawful use of a weapon," a felony offense. He was released from jail on $5,000 bond. If convicted he faces up to five years' imprisonment and the permanent loss of his Second Amendment rights. Gates has turned down offers to plea bargain his charges down to a misdemeanor. He goes to trial December 10. Gun Owners of America has established a legal defense fund for Larry Gates. For info call 703-321-8585. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- The courts have found that citizens are not legally entitled to police protection, yet citizens who defend themselves and their communities are routinely prosecuted as if THEY are the criminals. We are forced to pay taxes to support a police force that is not required to defend us and is instead used to punish us for defending ourselves. I don't get it. James A Chappelow "History shows that all conquerors who have allowed the subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing." Adolf Hitler --------------------------------------------------- This message is from the VTLP-list (Vermont Libertarian) mailing list. To send a message to everyone on this list send email to <vtlp-list(a)catamount.com>. To unsubscribe from the list send eamil to <macjordomo(a)catamount.com> with "unsubscribe vtlp-list" in the body of the message. To subscribe to the list send email to <macjordomo(a)catamount.com> with "subscribe vtlp-list your name" in the body of the message. ----------------- End Forwarded Message ----------------- Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr For PGP Keys <mailto:brianbr@together.net?subject=Get%20PGP%20Key> "Never ask what sort of computer a guy drives. If he's a Mac user, he'll tell you. If not, why embarrass him?" - Tom Clancy

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Gay Youth Site Closed
by Eric Cordian 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The axe of censorship strikes again, this time against a gay-positive teen site. Moral alarmists screeched that depictions of kids embracing each other and kissing were "sexually suggestive." Can't have that, can we? The Seattle Times crows over the site's disappearance and praises efforts to prevent sex education from crossing over into "sex promotion." Woo Hoo! Alternative Kids Welcome to the Alternative Kids Web Page! This page is filled with links and information for kids who are searching out their sexual orientation. Do you feel that you might be bisexual, gay, or lesbian? This is the place for you. <http://www.cyberspace.org/~altkids/kids.html> Sounds like a mirroring opportunity. :) -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"

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