December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: The Science Generations, II
by drose＠AZStarNet.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

With regard to chemicals, may I suggest a perusal of the PGI and PML lists (respectively, Pyrotechnics Guild Inc. and Pyrotechnics Mailing List)? These are good resources; just about anything you might want is available. However, they are serious; the KeWl BoMb stuff is on USENET (attn: C'Punk Newsgroup folks-thanx Dimi--there *is* a difference). Yea, (as D. Thorn might babble, if I understand the shards of his stuff quoted in the posts of those who should know better) when I was a young fellow, the guy at the local chemical supply co. asked my mom, "Lady, do you have any idea what metallic sodium and red fuming nitric acid and Willy Ley-strength Hydrogen Peroxide are all about?" Me, personally? I'm glad to have traded the availability of interesting reagents for the "Oppa-tune-itee" of having freedom and justice. (Although nobody "axed" my opinion prior to there having been a reversal in the thrust of gummint regulations.)

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Re: The Offending Stronghold posts...
by Dale Thorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Timothy C. May wrote: > Interestingly, I don't recall getting any e-mail from Sandy telling me he > was not passing on my messages to either the Main or the Flames list...my > messages were simply dropped on the floor. [snip] > As conversational threads are often so tangled, and become so much more > tangled with time, the job of the censor gets more difficult as time > passes. Not only must he excise all mention of banned topics, he must also > be alert to later discussions making mention of the act of banning, or of > the topics. This is territory well-covered by Orwell, of course. The > rewriting of history is a full-time job. Exactly. I hate to intrude, but some of us kids learned that lesson in something called "Sunday School" way back when. The lesson was "If you tell one lie, you'll have to tell another to cover it up, then another and another until you're buried in the lies and your credibility is shot". A related lesson: "An excuse is the skin of a reason packed with a lie".

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Re: Anyone have the complete info on CP list alternatives?
by Toto 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Bill Campbell wrote: > > Everyone and his/her cousin has jumped into the void > created when John Gilmore decided to pull the plug > on toad.com. > Has anyone composed a concise summary of just > what the options are? I have subscribed to Igor's cypherpunks(a)algebra.com. Jim Choate and Lance Cottrel (?) are participating with Igor and others in maintaining continuity of the list, to my understanding. They all seem to be moving toward maintaining a distributed list which will ensure both continuity and integrity. I would suggest joining one or the other list and then, once the 'dust' has settled, taking steps to verify that whatever list you are subscribed to is operating in such a way as to ensure that there are no shenanigans going on in the background. I, for one, am content to give the new list distributors the benefit of the doubt if there are anomalies in the new system, given the haste in which they must initiate a new distributed mailing list system. On the other hand, they may all be godless communists, seeking to twist our fragile minds to do their bidding. (Much like myself) Toto

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Re: The Science Generations, II
by Jeremiah A Blatz 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- snow <snow(a)smoke.suba.com> writes: > Mr. May wrote: > > Some legal scholars are claiming that there is no provision in the > > Constitution guaranteeing anonymity of purchases, and, indeed, a growing > > number of purchases can no longer be anonymous--guns, explosives, chemicals > > of various sorts, etc. How long before _all_ transactions must be recorded, > > True Names revealed, etc.? > > This is where I often get a little confused. > > Correct me if I am wrong, but it was my understanding that the > constitutuion was _not_ a document that explicitly spelled out what writes > _I_ had, but rather spelled out fairly precisely what the _government_ was > allowed to do. > > In otherwords, the Constitution does not restrict _me_ rather it > restricts the _feds_ (and the Feds alone). You neglect things like the interstate commerce provision, which means that if it crosses state lines, the feds can regualte it. In addition, the court (in its infinite wisdom), decided that "the people" meant the states, then the people. So, as long as it isn't meantioned in the constitution, the states can do whatever they want. Welcome to America, please stay in line. Jer "standing on top of the world/ never knew how you never could/ never knew why you never could live/ innocent life that everyone did" -Wormhole -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQB1AwUBMwjGzskz/YzIV3P5AQGKbAL+OA3vfIyutiHrnKXRaydKz0R9hhIinVV3 sSjacpA7MNDxH+bCQhDwqx2WRT89JjKK64nTw+4YF05h3pzl1IV3TD1WNDkt8UIe 5m8Y0LY1v2M5+dGq0ifpKicV8IUkvYar =UsSo -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Moderation experiment and moderator liability
by Dale Thorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Adam Back wrote: > Dale Thorn <dthorn(a)gte.net> writes: > > Adam Back wrote: > > > [summary of events] > > I believe your summary is very accurate except: > > I would add after the paragraph about Dimitri posting the warning > > about C2, that C2's lawyers sent an immediate threatening letter > > to Dimitri. > Agree, that should be added: > 15a. Dimitri received a legal notice from C2Net's lawyers about > Dimitri's allegations I know this could sound really nitpicky, but proofreading etc. is a big thing for me, so, I personally would not say "legal notice" alone, as it doesn't convey the sense of threat that was very real in the letter to Dimitri. Perhaps "terse legal notice" or words to that effect... > > I would change the paragraph about Tim May receiving a warning from > > C2's lawyers to say that Tim May received a warning second-hand that > > anything Tim would say to support or reiterate Dimitri's claims > > would be actionable by C2 as well. > Let's see I wrote: > > 21. Tim received a warning from C2Net's lawyers that if he did not > > desist from mentioning that Dimitri had posted an article criticising > > a C2Net product that he would be sued! > Tim explained the situation in fair detail in his recent post, > explaining, after Sandy's "Absolutely false." retort to my above > claim. Perhaps my wording could be more accurately changed in the > light of the further explanation from Tim to: > 21. Tim was told by a C2Net employee that if he did not desist from > discussing Dimitri's claims about C2Net's StrongHold product, C2Net > would take legal action against him! Again, at the risk of nitpicking, I'd say "might take legal action...". Just an opinion, I think you've done a really good job summarizing these events.

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Telecom Frequently Asked Questions File - 1997 Edition [fwd]
by Steve Schear 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: David Leibold <djcl(a)interlog.com> To: Telecom Digest <ptownson(a)massis.lcs.mit.edu> Subject: Telecom Digest FAQ - revised edition TELECOM Digest - Frequently Asked Questions - v.8 8 February 1997 * Frequency of Updates: approximately annual (special updates are possible) * FAQ contributions to: Telecom.FAQ(a)superctl.tor250.org or, dleibold(a)else.net or, aa070(a)freenet.toronto.on.ca Introduction... This is a list of frequently asked questions made in the TELECOM Digest. New versions of the list are occasionally made available to deal with new, corrected or updated questions. Many contributors have made the FAQ what it is today (those listed in the "Who contributed to this FAQ?" question are hereby thanked). Check the Archives... Much of the telecom information that is requested can be found in the TELECOM Digest Home Page, via WWW at: http://hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives This web page should have links to this FAQ file, as well as various informational files on telecom subjects and the Digest itself. The Archives for TELECOM Digest should also be available via the Home Page. The TELECOM Digest Archives are also available through anonymous FTP at massis.lcs.mit.edu (login as anonymous, mail address for password, cd to telecom-archives). If possible, try to access the information via the TELECOM Digest Home Page first. You can also access the Archives using anonymous ftp at the mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives. Also, there is an email <--> ftp service operating called the Telecom Archives Email Information Service. Anything in the archives can be obtained automatically by email. Send mail addressed to: tel-archives(a)massis.lcs.mit.edu The subject does not matter. Include no text, sending just a blank letter. You will get a help file by return mail and should use that as a guide to ordering stuff by email from the archives. A list of terms commonly used in TELECOM Digest is contained in a "Glossary" section on the Home Page or in the Archives. Try direct inquiries... Direct netmail requests to persons posting on topics of interest to you may also be helpful. In fact, doing things "behind the scenes" can be more productive as the Digest Moderator is frequently swamped with other items. Future editions of this list could include netmail addresses of contacts for certain topics (say for ISDN, cellular, area codes/numbering plan, consumer protection matters, etc.); offers to that end would be appreciated. Where to contact the FAQ maintainer... Suggestions for other common questions, or corrections or other amendments to this file may be made to Telecom.FAQ(a)superctl.tor250.org (Fido 1:259/730) or dleibold(a)else.net or aa070(a)freenet.toronto.on.ca. Note that any or all of these addresses are subject to change or discontinuance. This file is updated approximately annually; special updates may be made as time and circumstances permit. Disclaimer Type Stuff... All information herein should be considered subject to correction or change. No endorsements or promotions of specific products or companies are intended. Any specific references are made for example only, or in order to adequately deal with certain subjects.

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Re: Anyone have the complete info on CP list alternatives?
by ichudov＠algebra.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Bryan Reece wrote: > > Igor Chudov writes: > > Bryan Reece wrote: > > > > > > It is in place. It feeds from cypherpunks(a)algebra.com. Bryan Reece > > > reece(a)taz.nceye.net runs the posting bot. taz.nceye.net is an open > > > newsserver offering several cypherpunks newsgroups. > > > > > > I am not yet sure if taz is now a part of the mainstream usenet, that > > > is, it may not be connected to the Big USENET. > > > > > > It receives some Big Usenet groups, but only for local users. > > > alt.cypherpunks is open, but there will be long delays, on the > > > order of a day, for articles there (unless someone better connected to > > > Usenet wants to feed me alt.cypherpunks.*---any volunteers?). > > > > > > > I just set up a recipe for using mail2news gateways like this: > > > > :0 c > > | formail -I "Newsgroups: alt.cypherpunks,misc.misc" | \ > > sendmail mail2news(a)anon.lcs.mit.edu mail2news(a)utopia.hacktic.nl > > > > Any objections? > > > > - Igor. > > It would be more mailing-list-like to have the list in a separate, > isolated hierarchy. That would avoid the principal problems of Usenet > (delays and email spam). It is a very good objections. I would like readers to speak up and say their word for or against forwarding the list messages to alt.cypherpunks. If a significant number of people objects (2-3 is enough) I will disable this feature. - Igor.

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Re: The Science Generations, II
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 03:52 PM 2/17/97 -0700, drose(a)AZStarNet.com wrote: >Yea, (as D. Thorn might babble, if I understand the shards of his stuff >quoted in the posts of those who should know better) when I was a young >fellow, the guy at the local chemical supply co. asked my mom, "Lady, do you >have any idea what metallic sodium and red fuming nitric acid and Willy >Ley-strength Hydrogen Peroxide are all about?" Yes, those nosy shopkeepers should really keep it to themselves! I remember at about age 14 being pissed because I'd been sold _10%_ nitric acid, when I was expecting the 70% stuff! Within a few weeks I was buying direct from his supplier! Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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Re: List of reliable remailers
by ichudov＠algebra.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Raph Levien wrote: > > information about remailer features and reliability. > > To use it, just finger remailer-list(a)kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu > > There is also a Web version of the same information, plus lots of > interesting links to remailer-related resources, at: > http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~raph/remailer-list.html > Raph, Would it be possible to use your testing program to test reliability of cypherpunks mailing lists? Thank you. igor

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Re: Cypherpunks FAQ
by Dale Thorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Toto wrote: > ISP_Ratings wrote: > > Yes--and given the role Dr. Vulis has played in this matter > > it would be most appropriate for him to write an FAQ (although > > I personally ignore most FAQs). >Perhaps it would be more appropriate for the good doctor to write a FUQs. Why not do it like the Declaration of Independence? A primary author puts the basic document together, and other persons with expertise in other important areas add to it, then it gets circulated on the list for comments and suggestions. "Other areas" not normally addressed in these kinds of documents should include subscribers' awareness that the crypto lists are a prime target of attention from federal agencies, et al, and that much of the material posted could be pure disinformation.

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