December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Party on IRC
by William H. Geiger III 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <3.0.2.32.19970621023432.0077a4ac(a)popd.ix.netcom.com>, on 06/21/97 at 02:34 AM, Bill Stewart <stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com> said: >>Robert Hettinga <rah(a)shipwright.com> writes: >>>Is there an encrypted IRC available? >>>If not, shouldn't there be? >>>Is such a thing even possible? >You'd have to think about what you wanted it to do, >but it should be quite doable. IRC is normally for sharing >conversations between an amorphous, changing bunch of people, which isn't >really a standard thing to do with crypto. >But I can see several basic models: >0) Just Speak Finnish :-) >1) Two-person, with Diffie-Hellman key exchange >2) N-person shared-key - you'd probably use RSA to give the session key >to each new participant, or use PGP to do it. >3) N person, one key per sender, shared as above. >4) Ignore the application layer, and build the crypto as an IPsec tunnel. >5) Ignore the IRC protocols, and build a similar conversation server >using web forms and SSL. Hi Bill, I have been doing somthing much simpler for providing an encrypted IRC. Say you have a group of 5-10 crypto-anarchsist who wish to engage in a secure coversation. 1 of the group runs ircd & sshd on his machine (perferabley the one with the fastest machine/and or best connection). The rest of the group logs into his machine using irc & ssh clients. All communication is encrypted to the outside world while in "plain text" to the group. The best part of this is it requires no modification to the "off the shelf" software available. Unfortunatly ssh is not very well known outside the Unix community. There is an exelent port for OS/2 (freeware) and there is a port to winxx (shareware) I don't know if a mac port is available. - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBM60xGY9Co1n+aLhhAQGMKQQAj0x8wIofs/xXUSUtL9yv8BhfiILNElK/ lkVHmMYe84fG9mokkvxQXd90C/AXW5AzX5vSoSrF49DK+5+zMhYv/BKJq3WoT/r2 iNr1gLtpDP3hMY0OGbEdJMf3qXaX+7n8Uqgenzqj8HaiNUCpst2LCVX39I00gFlq mnzO5BZ+W1w= =HdWI -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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A Brief History of Cryptography
by Russell Nelson 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

[ I'm not on the list. Replies cc'ed to me. Public domain ] Once upon a time, the average citizen did not have access to locks. The U.S. Government had locks, and agencies to control them: the FBL, the CLA, and the NLA. They even knew that other governments had locks, but they also knew that those governments denied locks to their citizens, so the whole lock business was cartelized. However, the need for locks could not be denied, so the NLA was chartered to create locks for U.S. citizens. It created a lock, but didn't explain how the lock worked. Some people showed that the lock might be pickable by the NLA, although they couldn't pick it themselves. Some people thought that the extra wards in the lock were there to give the NLA a master key. But none of it could be proved, so people used the standard lock. As the society got wealthier, people had more things they needed to lock up. This created more incentive for lock creation, and citizens started to invent them. Some locks were sham locks and could be picked with a hairpin, or a skeleton key. Other locks were understandably difficult to pick, and came to be preferred to the NLA-approved standard lock. The NLA (and FBL and CLA) feared these locks that they hadn't devised and probably couldn't pick. So they proposed a scheme whereby they would create a new standard lock, which had an explicit master key. Naturally, this was viewed as a step backwards by people used to the standard lock, which they believed couldn't be opened by anyone but the key-holder. This lock design was opposed by nearly everyone. So they proposed a new lock standard, whereby everyone had to have a copy of their key registered with the NLA. This also was perceived as unworkable for the same reason as the master key system. In the meantime, of course, people were using these new citizen-created locks, which were widely thought to be strong. They expected no less of the NLA lock design, particularly since the NLA standard lock has been proven to be pickable. How will this story end? No one knows yet. Will the NLA seek to ban strong locks? Or will the NLA lose all its control over citizen locking? Time will tell.... -- -russ <nelson(a)crynwr.com> http://www.crynwr.com/~nelson Crynwr Software sells network driver support | PGPok | good luck, have fun! 521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315 268 1925 voice | taxes feed the naked Potsdam, NY 13676-3213 | +1 315 268 9201 FAX | and clothe the hungry.

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Re: how to `go underground' (was Re: The Global Fix is In)
by William H. Geiger III 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <199706221002.LAA06654(a)server.test.net>, on 06/22/97 at 11:02 AM, Adam Back <aba(a)dcs.ex.ac.uk> said: >Perhaps someone can have a go at adding this to PGP3.x, once Stale has >finished scanning the source code books, and has posted the source. >Also, I hear that PGP3.x has support for RSA keys, but won't generate >them? Perhaps we can add that back in also. I believe that it is only the freeware PGP 5.0 from the MIT site that has RSA key generation disabled. The commercial version should be able to generate both key formats. - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBM609+49Co1n+aLhhAQHjjQQAw/euyv+RsR/PPUBiG4+Ou7BlXrriq0AI 1L8kiDgsndAX+5nnNxItM8P9iy0ALZolShztS/UL4ppaCGKBfcsmZy8gFRvfXii2 DLZ8TQdzFUwmomqIGZZIMo4JQYOzEbB+kqg6gWxW7AnbURKVHXW1md2rreSBy0k9 uZU5pD26cC0= =rSmJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: spam on this list
by Ross Wright 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> On Mon, 23 Jun 1997, Philip A. Mongelluzzo wrote: > > > Twenty seven years ago I took an oath to do whatever was needed to > > protect and defend the constitution against all enemies (domestic > > and foreign) Yeah, I took one, too. You think spam is an enemy? HAH! > > But > > what is the solution to this problem from a parents point of view? > > Simple - control the material. What is the problem from a non-parent (by choice) point of view? Simple: control your fucking kids! That's the number one problem in the USofA today. Parents let their fucking kids run wild. Mom works, Dad works, Kids are free all day to cause trouble, and send spam. Spam is free speech! Ross =-=-=-=-=-=- Ross Wright King Media: Bulk Sales of Software Media and Duplication Services http://www.slip.net/~cdr/kingmedia Voice: (408) 259-2795

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Liberating PGP 5.0 Source Code the Old-Fashioned Way
by Tim May 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 10:46 AM -0700 6/24/97, Lucky Green wrote: >At 02:08 AM 6/24/97 -0700, Mark Grant wrote: >>It's kind of hard to modify the code when I'm still waiting for the PGP >>5.0 code to be made available. I can't do a lot until people finish >>OCR-ing it. > >Note that the scanning teams are looking for non-US volunteers to proofread >the scanns. Each volunteer gets 100 pages. They must have access to a box >with perl and a C compiler to process the per-page error correcting code. >You *don't* need a scanner. A lot of work that could better be spent in other areas. Why doesn't one of the many persons with access to the PGP 5.0 code already in machine readable form just mail it to the group doing the scanning and whatnot? (Using remailers, obviously. And even making it look like a porno image file. Whatever. Even easier: just put the source code CD-ROM in an envelope and mail it to Norway. "Duh.") This would shorten the process, and the Norwegian group could announce "We're done!!!" So, PGP employees, do it today. (Or send me the source on CD-ROM.....) --Tim May There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws. Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!" ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Re: spam on this list
by Ross Wright 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On or About 23 Jun 97 at 11:26, Jason William RENNIE wrote: > NO i dont wish to post any, i just want to know if this list has > spam sent to it ?? I started reciveing various pieces in the last > couple of days and i'm trying to identify the source. Spam *is* free speech, you know. <g> Ross =-=-=-=-=-=- Ross Wright King Media: Bulk Sales of Software Media and Duplication Services http://www.slip.net/~cdr/kingmedia Voice: (408) 259-2795

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http:--cnnfn.com-digitaljam-9706-23-netbiz-
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

DIGITAL AlphaServer Systems [INLINE] Digital Jam [INLINE] Big Brother brouhaha Privacy concerns lead on-line marketers to try softer approaches June 23, 1997: 11:08 a.m. ET [LINK] [INLINE] Archenemies join hands - June 11, 1997 FTC tackles privacy - June 10, 1997 [IMAGE] Federal Trade Commission TRUSTe NEW YORK (CNNfn) - There's an Internet argument going on. [INLINE] On one side are people who want to surf the Net in peace, free from the "spam" and insidious snooping of those anxious to make a quick buck. [INLINE] On the other side are businesses looking to take advantage of the Internet's promise as a vehicle for reaching specific customers cheaply and efficiently. [INLINE] Can the two sides coexist? Or will privacy advocates succeed in driving cyber-hawkers off line? [INLINE] Unlikely, experts say. That's because online companies are starting to use other marketing tools that make people worry less about Big Brother. [INLINE] The issue has heated up lately. Privacy rights groups are alarmed about the potential for abuse with junk e-mail and other invasive technology. In response, the Federal Trade Commission is probing whether marketers are snooping too much. [INLINE] The industry, meanwhile, is coming up with its own solutions to prevent lawmakers from stepping in. [INLINE] Experts say most of the practices raising eyebrows aren't much different from what's been happening off-line for years. Yet other analysts concede there is danger in an age where extensive personal information is available with the press of a key. [INLINE] "Consumers don't like to be shoulder-surfed when they're online," said Kate Delhagen, a senior analyst with Forrester Research Inc. in Cambridge. "(But) this is not a deal-breaker for the Web. The Web is alive and well and will continue to thrive. These little bombs will continue to go off, and they'll continue to be fixed." [INLINE] Besides e-mail, or "spamming," some marketers use browser technology to find out where a user has been on the Net or track him when he leaves a site by following his electronic footprints. Companies are also selling information on databases. [INLINE] "It's as if they can shadow you on the Web," said Susan Scott, executive director of TRUSTe, a non-profit organization of 50 companies whose mission is to promote trust in online commerce. [INLINE] Dan Miller, senior editor with The Web Magazine in San Francisco, thinks junk e-mail and the other practices aren't central to doing business online. [INLINE] "You can do business online without violating someone's privacy," Miller said. [INLINE] Instead of flooding people with junk e-mail, or "spam," some companies such as Amazon.com ask users if they want to be notified about new products, Miller said. That puts the control in the hands of the users, he said. [INLINE] In other cases, companies are creating new partnerships, like the one between Border books and Salon, an online Arts magazine, Miller said. At the end of Salon's book reviews is a link to Border so people can order the book. [INLINE] Experts said the disputed methods do work - but at the risk of alienating customers. [INLINE] "People universally hate spam," said Evan Schwartz, author of "Webonomics" and a contributing editor to "Wired" magazine. Smart Web sites treat customers respectfully by avoiding mass e-mailing or selling information from lists, he said. [INLINE] Scott said spamming is more widespread among smaller companies because it's so cheap - pennies for each e-mail address compared to a few dollars for each name in direct mail. [INLINE] "It's a numbers game - the more you send out, the more response you get," Scott said. The method has about a 1 percent return. [INLINE] Sanford Wallace, founder and president of Cyber Promotions, the largest bulk e-mail company in the country, insists the practice doesn't violate privacy. But he helped organize the Internet E-Mail Marketing Council to promote ethical standards. The council has a central address where people can get their names removed from all mass e-mailers. [INLINE] While the new standard might mean the loss of huge numbers of customers, "there are still millions and millions left," Wallace said. [INLINE] Tracking has been effective to help marketers find out about a person's interests so they can target ads, Scott said. If a person visits gardening sites, for example, a vendor can flash banner ads on the topic. [INLINE] "People don't understand the technology and there's a lot of anxiety about it," Scott said. "There's so much bad press that it's past the point of educating the consumer." [INLINE] Controversy about tracking was so heated two archrivals, Microsoft Corp. and Netscape Communications Corp., recently proposed a common standard so users can control how much information is available about themselves. [INLINE] Experts say selling information from databases isn't much different from what's been happening in the catalogue business. [INLINE] "That type of thing happens all the time," said Don Heath, president and chief executive of the Internet Society, a non-profit organization of 8,000 individuals and organizations. [INLINE] Eight information companies, including LEXIS-NEXIS, recently adopted guidelines to protect personal information like Social Security numbers on databases. [INLINE] Scott argued that most online companies still rely on traditional advertising. [INLINE] "These (disputed) methods haven't been widespread," Scott said. "Even Yahoo goes on TV to tell people to get on the Web. To reach the mass market, you have to go through traditional means." [INLINE] Scott thinks the uproar about electronic privacy will force people to think about the issue off-line, too. People have resigned themselves to getting piles of junk mail and catalogues, for example. [INLINE] "People had given up trying to protect their privacy, but this will make them think about it again," Scott said. Link to top [INLINE] -- Martine Costello [INLINE] quote box [INLINE] - Kate Delhagen [INLINE] Wallace photo [INLINE] Sanford Wallace doesn't think bulk e-mail violates privacy home | digitaljam | contents | search | stock quotes | help Copyright © 1997 Cable News Network, Inc. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

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Re: The Global Fix is In
by geeman＠best.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I'm reading a book, "Who Will Tell the Truth" with some very clear insights into How it All Works. The bottom line is the Bottom Line and the reason the crypto debate is going this way is due to exactly one thing: Money. I know there are those amongst this readership who feel that there is no place for the usual political process in dealing with the crypto issues, but that's not a universal or a given, nor is it necessarily practical in the long run. But within the existing structure the missing component in the debate is the active participation of a lot of dollars. The weight of Micro$osft + Netscape + (name your favorite list) is miniscule, and their players woefully inexperienced, compared to McDonnell D., G.E. Fed., TRW., Lock/Martin, IBM, and others who stand to gain hugely from a Federally-mandated and controlled PKI. Those heavyweights are all drinking buddies with the other Washington sorts who are in search of ever-expanding missions in life, and the result is a coterie who's primary interest isn't even remotely concerned with Child Pornography, Money Laundering, etc. but their own aggrandizement measured in personal and corporate dollars. There are no doubt massive investments being made by Industry in the conservative thinktanks who produce the intellectual fodder-de-jour that supports the position of this elite, and overwhelm the likes of McCain and Kerrey with impossible-for-the-legislature-to-understand managed "information" which boils it all down to the 4 Horsemen arguments. What's necessary here is a knowledgeable application of the same techniques, a coalition organization comprised of large business interests with an awareness of how Bad this all is, competing on the same turf. Noble anarchist or Constitutional arguments, whining about our Rights and such, are insignificant and irrelevant to the players. Who will belly up to the bar and provide leadership on terms that will truly be effective? ======================================================= At 10:16 AM 6/21/97 -0700, Tim May wrote: > > >The "Meeting of the Eight," formerly the G7, is happening in Denver. >Listening to what's coming out of it, it's apparent that the Four Horsemen >are front and center. Clinton is speaking of a network of banking and >communications policy coordinators, to detect and halt drug dealing, money >laundering, and nuclear terrorism. > >This fits with the details of reports about global wiretapping efforts, >about joint intelligence activities, and, of course, with the OECD/GAK laws >being proposed, passed, and about to be signed into law about "Key >Recovery" and "Trusted Third Parties." > >The fix is in. > >It probably won't be long before Stronghold is barred for export from >either Britain or RSA (the other one); both Tony Blair and Nelson Mandela >are Friends of Bill, so a few phone calls should take care of that little >problem. (And Norway and the other Scandinavian countries are part of the >global wiretap agreement, so I rather doubt free export of PGP 5.x code out >of Norway will be feasible, despite the OCR effort now underway there.) > >(Not that Clinton will mention Stronghold to Blair...that's far too much >microdetail. Jimmy Carter might have gotten involved at that level, but not >Bill. Details will be left to underlings.) > >The call to Japan, probably the visit by David Aaron, stopped NTT's plans >for exporting the RSA chip. > >Anguilla and other "offshore" havens, will be subject to the same kinds of >pressure. Mark my words. > >It's not hopeless. Physical havens are vulnerable, to all sorts of >pressures (I doubt many cryptographers want to set up shop in Libya or >Iraq, not that these places would be hospitable to Cypherpunks sorts of >goals and methods). > >Going underground, using the untraceable features of cyberspace, may be the >last, best hope. > >--Tim May > >There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws. >Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!" >---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- >Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, >tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero >W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, >Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. >"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." > > > > > >

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Re: The Global Fix is In
by William H. Geiger III 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <Pine.LNX.3.91.970622115344.593A-100000(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk>, on 06/22/97 at 11:58 AM, Paul Bradley <paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk> said: >I think that finally the poloticians in D.C, London, Berlin and all the >other major capitals have caught on, and realised that open availability >of anonymity, security and strong crypto can only lead to crypto anarchy, > they are *scared*, this time they are no longer do-gooding idiots, they >are out to cover their own backs... There have only been 2 intrests of the politition: CYA -- Cover Your Ass LYP -- Line Your Pockets There is also the desire to get re-elected but that directly relates to the two above. - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBM61ko49Co1n+aLhhAQGylQQAvLLnNgbu5SamAMMimF0BYina9gNdXkf6 r52wIpTncCHVeFS8khA73IcIwCOyMi7ktFuVOJKUWT/cNdFoMYEp2bDbai/KzVcx O/2ueFTiqEQNk2WR4caTABJtPxASRxPa7X8M8u9gdaBUwHOCTj+yRcDxAhxaAc3+ Ma29OH+tgxk= =kCas -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Ownership of McCain
by geeman 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

It was suggested that I look a little at McCain, so here is a dribble; I think it's instructive to see the following PAC's on McCains feedlist. Anyone who thinks that these Co.'s won't profit tremendously in the deployment of a Federally-designed and mandated PKI is taking the wrong drugs ..... (note: obviously these figures are meaningless in terms of actual $$$ amounts. They only serve to indicate that real soft money is flowing from the same source.) 4,000 05/03/95 AIRCRAFT OWNERS AND PILOTS ASSOCIATION POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE 2,500 02/14/95 ALLIED PILOTS ASSOCIATION POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE (AKA) APA PAC 2,500 11/17/95 ALLIED PILOTS ASSOCIATION POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE (AKA) APA PAC 1,000 02/27/95 AMERICAN AIRLINES POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE 100 03/29/95 AMERICAN SUPPLY ASSOCIATION PAC 500 02/02/95 BDM INTERNATIONAL, INC. POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE (BDM-PAC) 500 03/01/95 BP AMERICA PAC >>>> 1,000 02/06/95 CIVIC ACTION FUND - LORAL SYSTEMS GROUP (FKA GOODYEAR AEROSPACE CORP PAC) 2,000 05/11/95 FEDERAL EXPRESS CORPORATION POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE "FEPAC" 1,000 09/18/95 FEDERAL EXPRESS CORPORATION POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE "FEPAC" 3,000 09/18/95 FEDERAL EXPRESS CORPORATION POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE "FEPAC" >>>> 1,000 01/16/95 MARTIN MARIETTA CORPORATION POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE >>>> 1,000 03/13/95 MARTIN MARIETTA CORPORATION POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE >>>> 1,000 02/17/95 MCDONNELL DOUGLAS EMPLOYEES' POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE 1,000 08/17/95 PMAA/SMALL BUSINESS COMMITTEE 1,000 02/10/95 PODIATRY POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE >>>> 1,000 03/11/95 RAYTHEON COMPANY POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE 1,000 02/22/95 SVGGS FUND 1,000 03/14/95 TALLEY INDUSTRIES, INC, POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE (TALLEY-PAC) 1,000 02/23/95 UNITED PARCEL SERVICE POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE (UPSPAC) 100 03/14/95 UNITED PARCEL SERVICE POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE (UPSPAC) 3,550 03/14/95 UNITED PARCEL SERVICE POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE (UPSPAC) 350 03/14/95 UNITED PARCEL SERVICE POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE (UPSPAC) 31,100

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