December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

RE: Fighting the cybercensor
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 09:44 PM 2/5/97 -0800, Sean Roach wrote: >This time I have opted for a point by point. >At 07:59 PM 2/5/97 -0800, jim bell wrote: >>1. Large numbers of potentially competent and useful people get put into >>useless jobs: "Army, Navy, and Marines, and Air Force" spring to mind. >>(Those people who still think military spending is really necessary >>obviously haven't read AP.) >This point I can not argue with, at least not directly. I do believe that >the military way is wasteful of resources. Notice, however, that "pre-AP-theory," there was never any "good" way to theorize getting rid of the military: It always appeared that OUR military was needed to protect us against THEIR military. AP fixes that problem. > However, this is one area that >has actually benefitted the lower-income bracket in that it gives them >"inexpensive" (off-chance of death) access to good training. "War is good business...Invest your son!" There's no doubt that militaries look like a good deal to at least some fraction of the population. However, as is usually true, the amount of money that could be saved if we didn't have to buy military junk would do just as well applied to other products or services. >>2. Large amounts of money are spent on military hardware, money which goes >>to fund people who would otherwise develop useful products in the >>non-government private sector. >Three things that promote technological growth, expansion, war, threat of war. >As for expansion. we really have no where else to go. As for war and threat >of war, the computer was invented during a war, atomic energy was harnessed >during war, the internet was created during threat of war. Many >advancements, though not all, come to benefit society later. For that >matter, steel was probably invented during a war as well, but I can't prove it. I think that's a somewhat distorted way to look at it. War drastically changes the economics associated with technical developments: In WWII, millions of dollars became available for development of computers due to their ability to decrypt codes. It is by no means surprising that suddenly making it 10x more affordable to buy computers (not by reducing their costs, but by raising the amount of money provided) would make computers appear to be the product of war. You may recall estimates (which are frequently re-quoted, BTW)that proposed that there would only be a market for (say) 5-10 computers in the world. That estimate is frequently cited as an example of how wrong they were, but in reality that estimate assumed pricing based on then-current costs, and they were probably accurate! It is the _subsequent_ development of transistors which made those original estimates "wrong." Nuclear power, similarly, was born in a flood of money for the same war. Expensive government installations, such as Los Alamos, NM, Hanford Washington, and Oak Ridge Tennessee were built for that purpose. Activities which would have been highly uneconomical during peacetime were suddenly worth doing. If war makes technical development happen, it is only because of how supremely wasteful it is. Useful things still get done, but they get done in a highly uneconomical fashion and _before_ they would normally be done in a non-war world. Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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Re: Who's ahead: NSA or the private sector?
by Bill Stewart 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

That's not really a meaningful question. We can write codes they can't crack. They can write codes we can't crack. The cats are out of the bag, and David Aaron can't herd them back in. In some sense, the NSA is ahead of academia, because academia publishes, so they can read everything the Good Guys have done (less six months waiting to get published in journals :-), while the NSA seldom publishes. (There are also corporations doing non-published crypto work, but not much - they also see the value of open system review. And the KGB may have been good as well, but they're not in our face, and we can write codes the Russians and French can't crack either.) The NSA has almost certainly done more work on analyzing obscure Russian cryptosystems, but who knows how much of that is just brute force. But the real problems these days are engineering, not science*, so it's probably worth spotting them a few bits of keyspace just in case. The NSA is better able to come up with a few million dollars to build custom key-cracking hardware than industry is, so we have to presume they can do at least as well as a Wiener machine for cracking DES; they're certainly better at eavesdropping on calls than we are. I don't know if we can coordinate more workstations for a distributed crack, but they _could_ issue the FedCast Secure Screen Saver for all federal PCs; the only question is how much time would it spend cracking keys and how much grepping for suspicious files :-) There may still be radical changes in factoring technology, especially as computers get faster, but I doubt they'll do more in practice than force us to use longer keys, unless someone proves P=NP in the far mythical future or proves that factoring is in or near P. The interesting questions are at the boundaries of strong crypto and weak crypto - 40 bits is a nasty joke, DES is still interesting for things that don't have too much money riding on them, Skipjack is probably strong enough for a few years unless there's a second back door next to the one with the big "Cops Only" neon sign. How strong can we make something and still get export permission? Do we care? What are the threat models for different "Key Recovery" scams, and are we willing to write deliberatlely weak code to collaborate? Are the non-RSA public key systems good enough until the patent expires? There are some boundary problems that are interesting for non-political reasons - now that every toaster and digital wristwatch has an IP address and a few KB of RAM, what kind of useful crypto will fit in them? Key distribution is still interesting - how do you make a system that's convenient enough to use and secure enough to work? And distributed cracking systems are interesting, though the main uses for them are for cracking known-weak cryptosystems. Then there's the field of secure databases, which I think has both practical potential and scientific merit - how do you mix data together without leaking the secure stuff to unauthorized users, either directly or through combining lots of non-privileged data. [*Borrowing from Matt Blaze gratefully acknowledged.]

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The Konformist Takes Care Of The Stray Dogs
by Robalini＠aol.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Note: Either you requested to receive a subscription to this e-mail, or someone else recommended you to be placed on this list. If you are interested in a free subscription, please e-mail Robalini(a)aol.com with the subject: I NEED TO KONFORM. (Okay, you can use something else, but it's a cool catch phrase.) Please e-mail me back with subject: CANCEL KONFORMIST if you're not interested in receiving this. Thanks, Robert Sterling. I figure this is a good time to pass info and thanks. >From Evan Soule: O.K. Here is is. I recently discovered the location of this site(s). I do not explicitly know who created it, and in this regard it is a rather mysterious site as you may also find: The Sites: http://www.freedom-server.co.uk/Essays.html http://www.freedom-server.co.uk/Contents.html http://www.freedom-server.co.uk/Glossary.html http://www.freedom-server.co.uk/index.html Robalini's Note: for a good collection of Libertarian essays, this is a good place to go. From: pentiumpower(a)internetx.net (pentiumpower) SURF ANONYMOUSLY --> http://www.anonymizer.com WACO-THE TRUTH-DON'T PASS THIS UP! --> http://206.55.8.10/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum TWA 800-THE TRUTH --> http://www.erols.com/igoddard/twa-fact.htm OKC/WTC-THE TRUTH --> http://www.erols.com/igoddard/facts.htm GWS & LOTS MORE-THE TRUTH --> http://www.cco.net/~trufax My page --> http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/3101/ Robalini's Note: All of these, are, in my book, A++ sites. >From my wacky Uncle Markie (who was a Deadhead before all the Starbuck-quaffing trendies jumped on the bandwagon), proving interest in this stuff is genetically linked: http://www.alienmap.com/ Here are two sites I haven't checked yet, but come highly recommended: haigt asbury http://www.webcom.com/haight ? http://www.mk.net/~mcf Then there is Parascope, at http://www.parascope.com. I didn't mention it before, since, on AOL, I don't access it by the web. I was a little skeptical when it started (would AOL really have a good site that bucks the waves), but they've shown they are their own bosses. For general conspiracy info and the like, it is right up there with Jonathon Vankin's and John Whalen's 50 Greatest Conspiracies of All Time site. And, last but not least: Lisa Pease www.webcom.com/lpease Yeah, I've mentioned it before, but I've gotten a few emails thanking me for mentioning her site. No surprise: I found out about it from her postings on the Alt.conspiracy.JFK newsgroup, where she shows herself to be one of the few really good writers on the web. And now, some special other thanks. First, to Claire Gilbert, Publisher of "Blazing Tattles", which originated as an investigation on the burning oil and Gulf War Syndrome. It now specializes in investigations of health related matters. She sent me a free copy, and it was good enough for me to subscribe, with articles on the benefits of the Zone Diet, the dangers of margarine, and more GWS news. You can reach "Blazing Tattles" for more info at: Claire W. Gilbert, Ph.D., Publisher, Blazing Tattles P.O. Box 1073, Half Moon Bay, CA 94019, USA Phone: 415-712-0772 Email: <blazing(a)crl.com> FAX: 415-712-8547 (call first) To Kenn Thomas at Steamshovel Press, which is a great model for any underground magazine. Issue 15 came out recently, with, among other things, a great article on the Nation of Islam's connections to neo-Nazi group, a book excerpt of Thomas and Jim Keith's book "The Octopus", a look in on other theories of the cause of AIDS, and a wonderful interview with the late great Timothy Leary. Mr. Thomas has been a great supporter of mine, and I really appreciate it. For info, email him at: skthoma(a)umslvma.umsl.edu Deep River Books in Santa Monica is the best little book store you will ever find. It has books the corporate store, with their gazillion book titles, won't dare touch. The owner is a real cool dude. You can reach them at (310) 451-1224, or by email or web at: dpriver(a)leonardo.net http://www.leonardo,net/deepriver/index.html Also, my pal (and business partner), Scott Rose. You can reach him at his vanity-plate named site at: Scott(a)ScottWorld.Com In the L.A. area, Scott is the premier Filemaker Database maker, bar none (though I often help him out.) Email him, or call him at (213) 954-1978 for details. (Scott, you owe me a dinner for this.) And, as many of the readers of the Konformist are libertarians, I mention the best libertarian commentator on the web, bar none: L. Neil Smith. He wrote the Lando Calrissian Star Wars book trilogy (which I'm currently reading), and his fiction is even better than his non-fiction. You can reach the guy at: boardman(a)blackhole.dimensional.com Special thanks to Alex Constantine and Adam Parfrey for continued correspondance and support. Feral House Press has an incredible collection of books. You can reach Adam at Feral Press at: feralhouse(a)aol.com Other thanks to: FAIR (Fairness and Accuracy in Media) fair(a)igc.apc.org The Church of the Subgenius and Grand Master Ivan Stang: i.stang(a)metronet.com MindNet Journal for its positive feedback and reporting on mind control and brainwashing experiments: MindNet(a)c2.org James Pinkerton, who proves that not all L.A. Time commentators are mindless robots: pinkerto(a)ix.netcom.com Robert Parry at the Consortium. I bet he's embarrassed to discover this, but his investigations into dirty deeds of the Reagan-Bush years has been quite an influence on this magazine: rparry(a)ix.netcom.com Douglas Rushkoff, for taking it in stride when I called him an asshole: rushkoff(a)interport.net Rodney Stitch, author of the top-notch expose "Defrauding America" which did all the busy work on the intelligence-mafia link to drugs and banking scandals, links which don't end in the good old USA. stitch(a)defraudingamerica.com And finally, though they have no product, Paul Watson and Howlin' Blue of Texas for giving me info a commie-leftist Clinton supporter like myself would never find. Thanks, dudes. I probably have forgotten a billion people. If so, sorry, I'll be doing this every now and then. Thanks, and good luck. Robert Sterling, Editor, The Konformist ************************************************************ The Konformist is interested in accepting articles, opinions, free subscriptions, and advertising. E-mail us at Robalini(a)aol.com, or call (310) 967-4195. The Konformist is a subsidiary of Sterling Operation Solutions, the trouble-shooting problem-solvers for all business needs. We charge on a sliding scale based on the difficulty (and legality) of the proposed solution. Call (310) 967-4195 for further information. Hey kids, don't forget to enter the "Rockin' To Armageddon Sweepstakes", sponsored by The Konformist, the Official Internet Investigative Journal of the 1997 Academy Awards. (Okay, it's not official, but we're anti-authority anyways.) Right down the day, month, year, and time of the end of the world, and, as a tie-breaker, your nominee for the anti-Christ. The winner will receive a t-shirt stating, "I Came Closest To Predicting The Apocalypse, And All I Got Was This Crummy T-Shirt." You will also receive a free one year supply of Twix candy bars. Also, this is a free magazine, but we'll still take your money if you want. Please send cash, check, money orders, and credit card numbers (Visa, Master Card, American Express, or Discover) to: Robert Sterling Post Office Box 24825 Los Angeles, California 90024-0825

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Re: POST: The Frightening Dangers of Moderation
by Jerry Basham 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

You're going to have to find a way to make this junk, piss juvenile crap stop coming into my e-mail box. Period. ---------- > From: Dale Thorn <dthorn(a)gte.net> > To: Jerry Basham <2ndSun(a)bigfoot.com> > Cc: cypherpunks(a)toad.com; freedom-knights(a)jetcafe.org > Subject: Re: POST: The Frightening Dangers of Moderation > Date: Saturday, February 08, 1997 7:48 PM > > Jerry Basham wrote: > > > Ok...this is the fourth junk e-mail I've received that I don't want. Your > > account is in jeapordy, and my advice is for you to just stop sending me > > this junk. Take me off your e-mail list, NOW. > > If this e-mail from me, being mad at you, is what makes you happy, and is > > how you have fun, then you just have a personal problem and I feel sorry > > for you. > > Do what you can to heal yourself...meanwhile, don't send me anymore...your > > isp provider is next on my e-mail list. > > Jerry, my provider is GTE, and if you think you can make a dent in > them, go ahead and butt your head against the wall. No sweat offa > my ass. > > OTOH, if you stop bitching and groaning long enough to figure out > who is doing the remailing etc., then you'll be miles ahead. I'm > not optimistic. >

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LInteger Version 0.2: A C++ MPILIB
by janke＠unixg.ubc.ca 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- LInteger is a set of C++ libraries supporting multiple precision integers. Also included are libraries supporting chain hash functions and pseudo-random number generators. The core multiple precision methods are coded in i386+ assembly language for high speed. The libraries will only compile under GNU's g++ compiler, and have only been tested under the Linux and Windows NT operating systems. It is anticipated that there should not be any problems compiling under Windows '95, however, and that compiling for OS/2 will only require minor hacking, if any. Included as a sample chain hash function is an i386+ assembly implementation of the Secure Hash Algorithm (FIPS 180-1). Included as a sample pseudo-random number generator is an implementation of a pseudo-random number generator described in Section 3.1 of FIPS 186 (the Digital Signature Standard). Complete HTML documentation is provided for all public and protected methods. The package is free for both commercial and non-commercial use. Some of the improvements of this release over version 0.1 include: - Pseudo-random number generation. - Probable prime generation. - Easier constructors. - MontyRep and ResidueClass classes. - ASCII I/O in bases 1 to 36. - Overloading of fstreams operators for storage on persistent media. - Easier exponentiation. - Pentium optimizations for multiplication and squaring. - A square root function (by special request). - 8+3 filenames (by special request). - Various bug fixes and speed improvements (and some slowdowns! :) ) The package is available for download at http://www.interchg.ubc.ca/janke/linteger.html The hashes for version 0.2 are MD5: 61f027957065b88a690def3557956d34 RIPE-MD128: a0e85d5f3429f074b4a4dd4303f829e0 SHA0: b8e65d49ae0ae3ab26741030c8ca03137e16b493 SHA1: c46317ad7e3a9ff38092269b21513dbf68c0e3ef RIPE-MD160: 2ef0f020d1312033af6e6f4aa72466878ef3abe1 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBMv65lDjQF257xHLhAQG+TwQAhLaBP6z3nLKbBKcmSomPPE9G+r1z/tpD 5rA1p9ImwjJZnLAARiywdzH0bXS2n4Yf6jfPOUBZ0FMonNXLfkRJcXIgf0c16+mQ GeX2YYYxRQ+BWcUpzgZBe9y1Y7BJ/I4f0Qbu7jWHn6sOdv+qejxS6+Wos/6vVDoF 3LOfYCyG8Xs= =jnym -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: POST: The Frightening Dangers of Moderation
by Jerry Basham 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Return-Path: <autoresponder(a)WhiteHouse.gov> Received: from WhiteHouse.gov (whitehouse.gov [198.137.241.30]) by falcon.inetnebr.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA05593 for <scndsun(a)inetnebr.com>; Sun, 9 Feb 1997 19:25:39 -0600 (CST) From: autoresponder(a)WhiteHouse.gov Received: (from uucp@localhost) by WhiteHouse.gov (8.7.1/uucp-relay) id UAA01520; Sun, 9 Feb 1997 20:24:32 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 20:24:32 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199702100124.UAA01520(a)WhiteHouse.gov> X-AutoReplying-To: scndsun(a)inetnebr.com Subject: Re: message to USSA House of Representatives To: scndsun(a)inetnebr.com X-UIDL: f16144392bbe54c5667860b9458f5526 Thank you for writing to President Clinton via electronic mail. Since June, 1993, whitehouse.gov has received over one million messages from people across the country and around the world. Because so many of you write, the President cannot personally review each message. The mail is first read by White House Correspondence staff. Your concerns, ideas, and suggestions are carefully recorded and communicated to the President weekly with a representative sampling of the mail. We are excited about the progress of online communication as a tool to bring government and the people closer together. Your continued interest and participation are very important to that goal. Sincerely, Stephen K. Horn Director, Presidential Email The Office of Correspondence P.S. Please read on - you may find the following information useful. -- This is the only electronic message you will receive from whitehouse.gov. No other message purporting to be from the President or his staff with an address at whitehouse.gov is authentic. If you have received such a message, you have been spoofed. -- You will receive only one autoresponder message per day. -- The only personal addresses at whitehouse.gov are the following: President(a)whitehouse.gov Vice.President(a)whitehouse.gov First.Lady(a)whitehouse.gov Please write to Mrs. Gore and other White House staff by regular mail. The address is: The White House, Washington, D.C. 20500. -- On October 20, 1994, President Clinton and Vice President Gore opened a World Wide Web home page called "Welcome to the White House: An Interactive Citizens' Handbook" and it remains one of the more popular spots on the Web. The White House home page provides, among other things, a single point of access to all government information available electronically on the Internet. "Welcome to the White House" can be accessed at: http://www.whitehouse.gov -- White House documents and publications are available on the World Wide Web (see above) and by email. To receive instructions on retrieving documents by email, please send a message to the following address: publications(a)whitehouse.gov In the body of your message, type "Send Info" (without quotes); do not include other text (such as message headers or signature lines (.sig files)). The instructions will be sent to you automatically. **************************************************************** List of Clinton Administration Accomplishments (three documents compose the whole): To: publications(a)whitehouse.gov Message body: send file 317571 send file 317573 send file 317575 **************************************************************** -- The White House Public Access Email FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) document is available at the following address. The FAQ, among other things, lists alternate sources of government information, i.e., the Congressional email projects. Send an email message (no text necessary) to: faq(a)whitehouse.gov (This FAQ address is an autoresponder only; any comment sent to this address will not be acknowledged.) ---------- > From: Dale Thorn <dthorn(a)gte.net> > To: Jerry Basham <2ndSun(a)bigfoot.com> > Cc: cypherpunks(a)toad.com; freedom-knights(a)jetcafe.org > Subject: Re: POST: The Frightening Dangers of Moderation > Date: Saturday, February 08, 1997 7:48 PM > > Jerry Basham wrote: > > > Ok...this is the fourth junk e-mail I've received that I don't want. Your > > account is in jeapordy, and my advice is for you to just stop sending me > > this junk. Take me off your e-mail list, NOW. > > If this e-mail from me, being mad at you, is what makes you happy, and is > > how you have fun, then you just have a personal problem and I feel sorry > > for you. > > Do what you can to heal yourself...meanwhile, don't send me anymore...your > > isp provider is next on my e-mail list. > > Jerry, my provider is GTE, and if you think you can make a dent in > them, go ahead and butt your head against the wall. No sweat offa > my ass. > > OTOH, if you stop bitching and groaning long enough to figure out > who is doing the remailing etc., then you'll be miles ahead. I'm > not optimistic. >

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Re: POST: The Frightening Dangers of Moderation
by Jerry Basham 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

---------- > From: Dale Thorn <dthorn(a)gte.net> > To: Jerry Basham <2ndSun(a)bigfoot.com> > Cc: cypherpunks(a)toad.com; freedom-knights(a)jetcafe.org > Subject: Re: POST: The Frightening Dangers of Moderation > Date: Saturday, February 08, 1997 7:48 PM > > Jerry Basham wrote: > > > Ok...this is the fourth junk e-mail I've received that I don't want. Your > > account is in jeapordy, and my advice is for you to just stop sending me > > this junk. Take me off your e-mail list, NOW. > > If this e-mail from me, being mad at you, is what makes you happy, and is > > how you have fun, then you just have a personal problem and I feel sorry > > for you. > > Do what you can to heal yourself...meanwhile, don't send me anymore...your > > isp provider is next on my e-mail list. > > Jerry, my provider is GTE, and if you think you can make a dent in > them, go ahead and butt your head against the wall. No sweat offa > my ass. > > OTOH, if you stop bitching and groaning long enough to figure out > who is doing the remailing etc., then you'll be miles ahead. I'm > not optimistic. >

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Email forgery
by Mark M. 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- This is a very strange forgery. It appears that the attacker used fcaglp.fcaglp.unlp.edu.ar as a relay. This machine is running an old version of HP sendmail that apparently accepts any hostname the user enters after "helo". I tried sending myself fakemail using this site but haven't got a response yet. The interesting thing is that the attacker used the hostname echotech.com and not iquest.net. echotech.com is a real domain so the attacker might have been dumb enough to connect from echotech.com and enter the real origin. Or the SMTP server might just pretend it's fooled and put the real hostname in the received header regardless of what's entered after the helo. I'm not familiar with HP sendmail so I don't know whether this is true or not. On Sun, 9 Feb 1997, Bovine Remailer wrote: > Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 08:42:45 -0500 (EST) > From: Bovine Remailer <haystack(a)holy.cow.net> > To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com > > NEW ATTACK ON CP LIST > > > >Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 03:55:04 -0500 > >From: Linda Thompson <lindat(a)iquest.net> > >To: robert(a)iquest.net > >Cc: aen-news(a)aen.org > >Subject: URGENT > > > >Someone is sending THREATS to the President and Senate and using *MY* > >name > >and account to do it. One bounced and was sent to me. You should be > >able > >to find out where it came from by the message I.D. I think it is > >EXTREMELY > >important that you find out where this came from!! > > > >Also, earlier in the day, I got a message that I was subscribed by > >"majordomo" to cypherpunks. I did NOT subscribe to cypherpunks and I > >would > >bet that whoever did THAT also sent this message. > > > >Here's the threat message: > > > >Return-Path: <MAILER-DAEMON(a)fcaglp.fcaglp.unlp.edu.ar> > >Delivered-To: lindat(a)iquest.net > >Received: (qmail 29848 invoked from network); 9 Feb 1997 02:51:40 -0000 > >Received: from fcaglp.fcaglp.unlp.edu.ar (163.10.4.1) > > by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 9 Feb 1997 02:51:40 -0000 > >Received: by fcaglp.fcaglp.unlp.edu.ar > > (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AI19659; Sat, 8 Feb 1997 23:49:27 -0300 > >Message-Id: <9702090249.AI19659(a)fcaglp.fcaglp.unlp.edu.ar> > >Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 05:12:37 -0300 > >From: MAILER-DAEMON(a)fcaglp.fcaglp.unlp.edu.ar (Mail Delivery Subsystem) > >Subject: Returned mail: User unknown > >To: lindat(a)iquest.net > >X-UIDL: 85c7fe8ecdc2605eb6bc80bfa71b223e > >Status: U > > > > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- > >550 xfAA16374: line 6: vice-president(a)whitehouse.gov... User unknown > > > > ----- Unsent message follows ----- > >Received: from echotech.com by fcaglp.fcaglp.unlp.edu.ar with SMTP > > (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA16374; Sat, 8 Feb 1997 05:12:37 -0300 > >Message-Id: <9702080812.AA16374(a)fcaglp.fcaglp.unlp.edu.ar> > >Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 05:12:37 -0300 > >From: lindat(a)iquest.net > >Return-Path: <lindat(a)iquest.net> [recipient list deleted] > >Reply-To: lindat(a)iquest.net > >Return-Receipt-To: lindat(a)iquest.net > >Comment: Authenticated sender is <lindat(a)iquest.net> > >Subject: message to USSA Senate > > > >All files on the Senate's computers will be deleted by our > >gang of cypherpunks dedicated to the eradication of your systems. Mark -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3 Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBMv4meizIPc7jvyFpAQFu/ggAoap+9UBSbtitcQuGL3Og5u1nQRJhaviV BJqXC0ZwNBKCEeVQm3HIME47eqB8JVite2YBvyXZbj/QAsFQAEY1k4oJlfn5tCLE w/ifDrqeQhFWXtNC64iRFJm7EEOMDJ56rNVUA8NkKJZstl8ny/7LTFeTDGxf18gL nQVHJ447I5B0WVQt42F1Gfcmxh3bPjbZXd8TRKSKjhuBfqum8916dlXso1hB3WaC TSYIHa3R33HmwYA2xtDJ6ZJwtlPF/wPkVIYgbhrt+S6SPGfa+yEUnCE72qceo3eh 1imu97YBiP0EPveEdD5yIlH23rZRbCJ9RmDrZruCY2ldG1wJh3+6Jg== =psFL -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: POST: The Frightening Dangers of Moderation
by Jerry Basham 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

---------- > From: Dale Thorn <dthorn(a)gte.net> > To: Jerry Basham <2ndSun(a)bigfoot.com> > Cc: cypherpunks(a)toad.com; freedom-knights(a)jetcafe.org > Subject: Re: POST: The Frightening Dangers of Moderation > Date: Saturday, February 08, 1997 7:48 PM > > Jerry Basham wrote: > > > Ok...this is the fourth junk e-mail I've received that I don't want. Your > > account is in jeapordy, and my advice is for you to just stop sending me > > this junk. Take me off your e-mail list, NOW. > > If this e-mail from me, being mad at you, is what makes you happy, and is > > how you have fun, then you just have a personal problem and I feel sorry > > for you. > > Do what you can to heal yourself...meanwhile, don't send me anymore...your > > isp provider is next on my e-mail list. > > Jerry, my provider is GTE, and if you think you can make a dent in > them, go ahead and butt your head against the wall. No sweat offa > my ass. > > OTOH, if you stop bitching and groaning long enough to figure out > who is doing the remailing etc., then you'll be miles ahead. I'm > not optimistic. >

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Indiana judge extends gag order to the Net, from TNNN
by Declan McCullagh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 06:31:28 -0800 (PST) From: Declan McCullagh <declan(a)well.com> To: fight-censorship(a)vorlon.mit.edu Subject: Indiana judge extends gag order to the Net, from TNNN The Netly News Network http://netlynews.com/ Gag On This by Declan McCullagh (declan(a)well.com) February 10, 1997 The point of moving a trial or selecting a jury from a distant county is, of course, to prevent jurors from being influenced by the local media and opinions of the nearby community. But what if the media are global and the community is virtual? That enigma is causing problems for an Indiana couple on trial for reckless homicide in the November 1995 death of their son from meningitis. Bill and Sarah Planck had hoped to demonstrate their innocence through the Net, and so another son created a web site with documents from a counter-lawsuit filed against the county welfare agencies and sheriff's department, detailing how police threatened and intimidated the family. Now the judge presiding over their criminal trial has ordered the Plancks to pull the plug on the site. Madison County judge Fredrick Spencer told me he extended an existing gag order to the Internet because the tort claim notice could influence jurors. "We went two counties away to get the jury. But people in Randolph County have computers and America Online. So to avoid any possible problem, I ordered them to take it off," Spencer said. Spencer says the order was necessary to preserve the integrity of the trial. "It's only the trial that I'm concerned with," he said. "If I don't do what I can, I risk having to do [the trial] over again." Yet as soon as the Plancks yanked the documents offline on January 27, copies sprouted on the web site of a supporter -- beyond the reach of Judge Spencer. Who's right, Spencer or the Plancks? I posed that question to David Post, a professor at Georgetown Law School. "Gag orders may in a way be a thing of the past," he replied. "It becomes an enforcement dilemma with respect to the Internet. It's a hell of a lot easier to enforce that gag order [locally]. You really only have to keep your eye on a very small number of dissemination vehicles," Post said. "Gag orders are violated on occasion, but by and large you have some confidence that they'll be respected. Obviously you can't anymore." Gag orders stem from the right to an impartial jury. "We think that sometimes -- rarely, but sometimes -- that can best be accomplished by controlling the kind of information potential jurors might see. The Net deforms the landscape," Post said. Katharine Liell, the Plancks' attorney, was reluctant to discuss the case for fear of violating the gag order -- which covers her as well. "I'm uncertain what I can and can't say due to the vagueness of the gag order," she said. "Gag orders are supposed to be specific in nature, but I don't understand the nature or breadth of this gag order so I'm not comfortable commenting at this time." The legal question at issue in this prosecution is whether the Plancks are guilty of four felony charges, including reckless homicide and involuntary manslaughter, in the death of Lance Planck from pneumococcal meningitis. The verdict may depend on the answer to one question: Did the Plancks wait too long to call 911? More than the couple, however, is on trial. The case also reveals how a child protection agency can be used as a weapon to threaten parents and divide a family. The mirrored documents tell a sad story of a poor family who lived in a trailer park and home-schooled their eight children, and their long-standing battle with Madison County social workers. The first salvo came in 1992, when a social worker visited the Planck home to investigate the children's alleged vision problems. Based on that visit, a judge ordered that their eyes be examined. A month later, police invaded the Planck home and forcibly removed the children. The tort notice describes other encouters, including tear gas canisters lobbed into their home and warrantless arrests. "I've known the Plancks for a long time," said Brent Tobin, an electrical engineer who mirrored the web site. "I've lived in the town all my life. I know there's nothing going on there. The deputy prosecutor made them out to be religious weirdos, but they're not." "I put up the web site since I don't feel that the county government should have jurisdiction over the World Wide Web. I think there should be freedom of speech. I feel gag orders are a violation of rights," Tobin said. For his part, Judge Spencer emphasized that his gag order "expires at the end of the case. Free speech is an important right and I'm going to be the last person to have a problem with it." What about the mirror site? Has his order accomplished anything? "The Planck supporters are going to put it on there," Spencer replied. "If you're suggesting that I'm tilting at windmills, perhaps you're right." ###

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