December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Dr. Vulis' social engineering "experiment"
by Bill Campbell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Toto <toto(a)sk.sympatico.ca wrote: > If what you say is true, then Dr. DV K's efforts are quite possibly > the most important issue being addressed in this conference, because > behind free speech, lies the most important issue of all--when does > it start, and when does it stop. As a long time lurker (much longer than many of the numerous relatively recent vociferous posters) I *must* speak up. If the dear "Doctor's" posting are indeed a "grand" experiment in newsgroup (or maillist) sociology, then it seems they are akin to experiments in recent history; if the patient dies, so what? There are other lists... While many of you think that the ability of a list to withstand constant spamming is an important issue; the government is busily working to outlaw encryption and privacy, and I fear that much is lost by the side issue of the "how easily can I kill a list". I feel we at a *critical* crossroads in this debate, and one of the more important voices has *very* effectively been silenced. > The military-industrial complex proclaims this necessary for the > purposes of state-security, and denies that it is used in order to keep > their 'sins' from being exposed. (If you believe this, then please > contact me by private email regarding an ocean-front property I have > available in Tucson, AZ. If you act quickly, I will throw in a set > of the Amazing Ginzu Knives as an added bonus.) This is very true, but I cannot understand why you think that the attempt to disrupt and destroy this list a necessary step in the task of resisting this governmental effort. > As far as I am concerned, any CypherPunk who believes that the > socio/politico issues surrounding cryptography are not important > enough to be an integral part of this list is falling into the > same type of trap as those who think that they can become good > cryptographers without becoming good cryptanalysts. Again, I can't understand why "killing the messenger" is advancing the issues of privacy and crypto issues. How does the posting of numerous crude anti-Tim May messages promote personal privacy? > > "In peacetime, a warlike man sets upon himself." -- Nietzsche > "In times of war, a peacelike man sets upon others." > Bubba Rom Dos This seems horribly to describe the current situation. =Bill=

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Re: "Technical data" exemptions in new crypto regs
by Richard L. Field 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In reply to Solveig Bernstein's First Amendment challenge questions: I read the new regs as permitting: (i) publication of source code in paper form (including publications reproduced on microfilm or on prerecorded phonograph records), or in the form of a motion picture film and soundtrack (section 734.3(b)(2)); and, separately, (ii) teaching or discussion of information "about" cryptography (section 744.9). The export of other encryption materials (including the distribution to non-US persons of source or object code on diskettes) is restricted, even if the materials are publicly available "educational information" for release by instruction in catalog courses and associated teaching laboratories of academic institutions (section 734.9). Technical assistance activities that go beyond "mere" teaching or discussion of information about cryptography are restricted, if they show "intent" to aid a foreign person in the development or manufacture, outside the United States, of controlled encryption commodities and software. This is a General Prohibition (see section 736.2(b)(7)(ii)). I think one question to be resolved is: could the "mere" teaching about cryptography (which is okay), *coupled* with distribution of source code in paper form (which is otherwise okay because it is not, by itself, subject to the EAR - see note to section 734.3(b)(2) and (b)(3)), be considered a violation of the EAR because it demonstrates "intent" to aid a foreign person in the development of encryption software? One would hope not (see Bernstein), but the new 734.9 seems to imply that such a combination may be restricted. Thus, a potental First Amendment challenge to the new regs would be a challenge to a restriction on teaching coupled with paper publication/distribution of source code. Another would be a challenge to the restriction on non-paper publication/distribution, whether or not coupled with teaching. - Richard Field (For discussion purposes only. Not legal advice or a legal opinion.) On Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:45:44 -0500 (EST) you wrote (to Declan McCullagh): > >What have the new crypto regs done to the "technical data" and the "public >domain" exemptions from ITAR? > >The problem is this: as I understand it, the Commerce Dept. regs exempt >teaching and print presentations generally, but these exemptions do not >apply to "encryption software." > >Does this mean that the exemptions do not apply to *teaching about* >encryption software or *publications about* encryption software? Or *only* >that the exemptions do not apply to diskette-contained source code or object >code. > >In other words, the new regs might completely decontrol teaching and >publication of something like Professor Bernstein's Snuffle. > >On the other hand, the new regs might, like ITAR, restrict teaching and >publication of Snuffle (as well as publication of source code in diskette >format). > >The purpose of the question is to understand whether a First Amendment >challenge to the new regs is a First Amendment challenge to a restriction on >*teaching, publication, and program distribution* or just a challenge to a >restriction on *program distribution.* > > >Solveig Bernstein, Esq. >(202) 789-5274 >(202) 842-3490 (fax) > >Assistant Director of Telecommunications & Technology Studies >Cato Institute >1000 Mass. Ave. NW >Washington, DC 20001

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Nex type2.list/pubring.mix
by John A. Perry 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hello Everyone! There is a new type2.list/pubring.mix combination on jpunix.com. The Web version is located at www.jpunix.com and the FTP version is at ftp.jpunix.com. This version reflects the introduction of the wazoo remailer. John Perry KG5RG perry(a)alpha.jpunix.com PGP-encrypted e-mail welcome! Amateur Radio Address: kg5rg(a)kg5rg.ampr.org WWW - http://www.jpunix.com PGP 2.62 key for perry(a)jpunix.com is on the keyservers. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMuSrVFOTpEThrthvAQF3VQP/WnfaCY5FYNyImKDX2p5HqjevMzw98bxR SsiKqWVUTRxEd10rTxPTBfVpq/d+kfDkWs3HQEc/Z2a3LYXwZ/8bFkr9qXTP2wOq L5PjjpD3QwfJVa2wv+DWYgn07rTyKhe5kOti4YfTt//M7F3S0T/BLMuggG/BXKyB ccUyqt16PL4= =+wMo -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Quantum computers/Java of a different sort
by Peter Trei 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> From: Mike McNally <m5(a)vail.tivoli.com> > To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com > Subject: Quantum computers/Java of a different sort > For all you quantum computer fans, see > > http://sciencenow.sciencemag.org/html/970117c.htm > -- > Mike McNally -- Egregiously Pointy -- Tivoli Systems, "IBM" -- Austin Shades of the Infinite Improbability Drive! (cf Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy) Peter Trei trei(a)process.com

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Re: Thoughts re moderation, filtering, and name changes
by Dale Thorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

hjk wrote: > Just one thing about the names of the different lists: I received a > mail listing the changes to come. It was very easy to understand that > I am going to get the moderated list if I do not change my subscription. > I'll find out if I will miss something. We'll see. > I wonder who is so brainless, not to understand what's going on. > Do you really think the subscribers are pure Idiots? Well, Heinz. You live in a country full of people, ordinary people, variously called the hoi polloi, the sheeple, the unwashed masses, and other interesting names. Many credible and respected authors and commentators have made references to the masses in one form or another as "stupid, lazy, ignorant, selfish, etc.", or even "almost useless". Now whatever you think of your fellow citizens, or even those of the USA (to name an example), I'm sure is OK on whatever basis you apply your judgement. But I guarantee you that the people on the cypherpunks list are no more or less intelligent than the people who vegetate in front of their TV sets every day, right there where you live, in all probability. If you believe that your fellow citizens vote intelligently, then I respond that cypherpunks vote intelligently. What do you think?

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Re: Question on Diffie-Hellman patent
by Thaddeus J. Beier 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> > Diffie-Hellman 4,200,770 Sept. 6, 1977 Apr. 29, 1980 Sept. 6, 1997 > > Hellman-Merkle 4,218,582 Oct. 6, 1977 Aug. 19, 1980 Oct. 6, 1997 > > RSA 4,405,829 Dec. 14, 1977 Sept. 20, 1983 Sept. 20, 2000 > > So who's planning on throwing a big party on Sept. 6th? Will Jim Bizos be > celebrating? :-) Well, Jim Bizdos now has an unlimited license to the DH and HM patents, due to a recent settlement with Cylink, so he probably won't be celebrating. I'd wait 'til the October 6th date for the real party, RSA and Cylink's lawyers have always claimed the HM gave them a claim to all of public key cryptography...that's the one I've been waiting for, and it's only another month :-) This is going to be a very good year. If you look at Roger Schlafly's home page, http://bbs.cruzio.com/~schlafly you'll see that he's been fighting these guys for years; and he concedes now that even with his herculean efforts to move the process along, the trial probably won't come to a head before the patents expire. I'd love to see his estimate of how much their lawyers have spent on this over the years... -- Thaddeus Beier thad(a)hammerhead.com Visual Effects Supervisor 408) 287-6770 Hammerhead Productions http://www.got.net/people/thad

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Re: Dr. Vulis' social engineering experiment
by ichudov＠algebra.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Jane Jefferson wrote: > > The heart and soul of the problem is that "sin", "freedom", "good", > and "evil" are abstract concepts which fluctuate from individual to > individual. An excellent point, Jane. Worth remembering. - Igor.

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Re: Thoughts re moderation, filtering, and name changes
by ichudov＠algebra.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

[Cc: alex(a)agate.net] Dale Thorn wrote: > > Many credible and respected authors and commentators have made references > to the masses in one form or another as "stupid, lazy, ignorant, > selfish, etc.", or even "almost useless". > In the classical example, you should say "LYING, FUCKING, THIEVING, STUPID," and so on. The art of insults has developed somewhat. Alexplore is one of the best masters after Dr. Vulis (some would say even better than Dr. Vulis, but that depends on taste). if you do not get it, it is because you need to know the context... - Igor.

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Arkansas Phone Scramblers, etc.
by John C. Randolph 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I just had an interesting exchange with the latest person to take up residence in my bozo filter. I get this message from some clown I've never heard of, sent from AOL, saying that he wants one of these Radio Shack scrambler frobs, and hinting that he'd be willing to pay lots for it. I sent him back a note pointing out, among other things, that I don't know him, he doesn't know me, and that we're talking about buying and selling a frob that at least one set of JBT's doesn't think he should have. I concluded by telling him that I wouldn't sell him one if I had one, that I wouldn't tell him whether I had one, and that if he wants to have a private conversation with someone, he should just get a copy of PGP phone, like everyone else. He sent me a huffy note, saying I'd better learn some diplomacy. So, what do you think guys? Did I just piss off some federal prosecutor who was hoping to body-grab me to a clueless jusrisdiction like Arkansas to try me for crypto-terrorism, or did I piss off another fucking AOL'er? Amused and Torqued at the same time, -jcr

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Re: Airport security [no such thing]
by Adam philipp 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 09:23 PM 1/20/97 -0500, you wrote: > Recall that all security is economics. The airlines want the >appearance of security without having to pay for it. > > The '3 questions' ("Pack your luggage? let it out of your >sight? Taking any gifts?") originated with El Al, where they are the >introduction to a very expensive (and privacy invading) set of >screening questions. The El Al people are trained to watch you as >they ask the questions, and respond to signs of lying or rehersal. >The Americans read the questions off the screen, and pay no attention >to your answers. True, however the number of questions asked by El Al decreases amazingly when you answer in Hebrew, however that did not stop me being addressed by five security personnel after a trip where had been doing a photo documentary and was still wearing a photo vest full of black metal cannisters (lenses). Of course when the security head finally approached me I used Hebrew and that was then end of the episode. Unfortunately speaking English is not a very good determination of airline safety. Adam Esq. -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-\ | My PGP key is available on my |Unauthorized interception violates | | home page: http://www.rosa.com |federal law (18 USC Section 2700 et| |=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|seq.). In any case, PGP encrypted | |SUB ROSA...see home page... |communications are preferred for | | -=[ FUCK THE CDA]=- |sensitive materials. | \=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-/ If A is a success in life, then A = x + y + z. Work is x; y is play; and z is keeping your mouth shut. Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

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