December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Test...sorry about this - Reply
by Barbara Gamble 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I got it too. And since I am a new subscriber, I thought it might be the normal traffic. The Welcome msg *did* say the list is high-traffic. Still, I was aghast--300 all at once, another 100 just in the last hour. Is that typical? (Please forgive such a question from a newcomer to the list.) >>> Z.B. <zachb(a)netcom.com> 09/06 10:38 am >>> I'm just posting this to see if there's something wrong with my mail filter - it dumped a ton of messages from this list over the night, and I'm trying to figure out why the !@%$# it did that. Sorry for the interruption. --- Zach Babayco zachb(a)netcom.com <----- finger for PGP public key http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Park/4127

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Re: Conservation Laws, Money, Engines, and Ontology
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 4:03 AM 9/9/96, Greg Kucharo wrote: > One thing that occurs here. I imagine a scenario where you have a >"share" of resources on a system(and ISP for example). You're metered as >to how much you can post or store. Actually as it is now posting is >regulated through extra payments per meg above the limit. Spam is being >somewhat regulated by Terms of Service type things, but my point is what is >to prevent pooling resources among several system to achive the same Spam >pursuits some have. Say for example that an individual gets several >accounts to balance the load at thier point. The Usenet for example has no > "choke point". How could ISP's apply conservation here? If you limit the >amount of traffic you still aren't holding back the flow of "spam". > Here's where reputations could come in. You cound't open a new account >anywhere without a good "reputation". This could aid in balancing the load >of certain people. The most basic principle is this: those with resources they control (and "own") set the rates and policies. We don't have to figure out how the pricing will ripple down the line, or whether what some call "spam" will be controlled. (My view is that the whole focus on "spam" has been singularly unfruitful. We don't call magazine or television advertising "spam," though it meets operational definitions of spam, or velveeta, or whatever the latest terms is. While much advertising is disgusting, unwanted, noisome, etc., we understand that the publisher of a magazine can choose what to include and we can choose whether to buy it or not. (Television and radio are somewhat different, due to the FCC licensing and limited bandwidth, but the principle is the same.)) Thus, when carriers of packet traffic begin market pricing of packets, the pricing will ripple back. Eventually. (Or not, should some steps in the chain decide not to pass on costs...) I expect the failure of the Internet to have proper conservation laws to be solved in this way: Removal of Market Distortions + Auctioning Mechanisms + Several Large Network Crashes = A More Rational Market Model for Network Usage --Tim May We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1,257,787-1 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Conjuring up the latest utopia for a minoritarian sect of illuminati
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 10:04 AM 9/9/96, Enzo Michelangeli wrote: >I and you may well choose to do so, but the vast majority of the human >beings believe just anything that is repeated loud and long enough. >Otherwise, nobody would hire PR and pay for advertisement, politicians >wouln't be fedwith taxpayer's money, Bosnians would trade goods instead >of gunshots, etc. I'm personally not interested in conjuring up the latest >utopia for a minoritarian sect of illuminati: I need to live in the real >world, and push for viable solutions that change it for better, now. Yes, Bosnians and Serbs would not be killing each other if only they could receive government-approved information! (Hint: This shows that neither governments nor churches nor the United Nations knows any better solutions to the "who do you trust" problem. And, I believe, mostly governments and other such entities exist to serve their own interests.) As to what I presume is an insult to the folks on this list ("I'm personally not interested in conjuring up the latest utopia for a minoritarian sect of illuminati"), you know where the exit is. --Tim May We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1,257,787-1 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Re: Voluntary Disclosure of True Names
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 11:18 AM 9/8/96, James A. Donald wrote: >At 10:49 AM 9/5/96 -0700, Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote: >> I have seen it repeated here often that somehow anonymity is some kind >> of a "right" that one should have in all kinds of different & important >> transactions, not merely on "cyberspace debate societies". I see >> here frequently the implication that *private*entities* that want to >> enforce identity in their own transactions are somehow implementing >> a corrupt, orwellian system. > >We hold that private entities have the right to attempt to impose corrupt >orwellian systems provided they do not do it at gunpoint, but we doubt >that they will succeed without guns. An overstatement which diminishes the power of your arguments. Namely, many, many corporations have Orwellian surveillance systems and policies which would be unacceptable if imposed by a government. No guns are involved, only the considerations of employment, paychecks, and the like. Likewise, many private schools have such systems. Likewise, no guns are involved. And so on. (Naturally, I am not criticizing these voluntarily-entered-into arrangements, merely rebutting the point that people will generally not put up with Orwellian schemes unless threatened with guns.) --Tim May We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1,257,787-1 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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E-Cash Poses Worldwide Banking Threat - Report 09/06/96
by Joseph M. Reagle Jr. 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>PALO ALTO, CALIFORNIA, U.S.A., 1996 SEP 6 (NB) -- By Richard Bowers. >By the year 2000, consumers, businesses, governments, and >educational institutions worldwide will use electronic cash (e-cash) >for nine billion payment transactions. According to a new study by Killen >& Associates, this increase in e-cash will pose a great threat to some of >the biggest institutions in the world. > >The report specifically highlights the risk to the retail and banking >industries. Speaking to Newsbytes, a spokesperson for Killen said that >the report, which will be issued later this month, gives little solace to >the problems facing traditional retail companies. The report does >however, say that the banks can regain the leadership position in >payments by moving quickly to leverage their payment transaction >infrastructure to fully support e-cash. > >"By 2005, e-cash transactions will escalate to almost 30 billion," >stated Michael Killen, president of the market research firm. "Banks >must act quickly to leverage their position in payment services. Non- >banks see this as a new opportunity to carve further market share >away from the banking industry. All will compete for new revenue >streams including Internet-based micropayments." > >The report uses a very broad definition of e-cash including among >others; secured debit cards, phone cards, electronic checks, ATM >transactions, point of sale loans, and automated tolls. > >Using this broad definition they estimate that in 1995 there were 536 >billion non e-cash transactions worldwide compared to only 1 billion >e-cash transactions, or about .0019 percent. By the year 2005, of a >total estimated 1 trillion transactions, the report predicts 3 percent >or around 30 billion transactions will be e-cash. > >"The impact of e-cash will be widespread on both banking and >commerce," Killen added. "Opportunities will open for financial and >other product and services players, including ATM vendors such as >NCR, Diebold, and IBM; credit card authorization firms, including First >Data, Total Systems, Equifax, and National Data; ATM/POS terminal >manufacturers and network suppliers, including bank-owned >networks, American Express, Deluxe, ACS, and VeriFone; and cash >handling/cash management services firms such as ADP, GEIS, National >Data, and Brinks. Software firms that understand the enormous >system integration opportunities of adapting legacy systems to on- >line, secured environments will also benefit from the need to support >e-cash transactions." > >The report will include forecasts of the overall payments environment >and the impact of e-cash on cash, checks, credit cards, and other >electronic payment systems though the year 2005. It will also have a >section on the opportunities for new business, dislocations, and >threats to existing businesses, with emphasis on acquisition and >alliance opportunities. > >"E-cash provides the necessary payment options to support new and >low-cost products and services, including micropublishing," Killen >continued. "Information services such as AC Nielsen, Dun & Bradstreet, >and Wall Street investment and advisory firms will fill their clients' >needs for customized news. This will lead to a new understanding of >personal and commercial buying patterns, wants, and needs. >Individual consumer purchase, transaction, and life-style profiles will >be developed. Advertisers can then use this information to target >market-customized advertising and marketing programs." > >(19960906/Press Contact: Jules Street, Killen & Associates, 415-617- >6130) > > > _______________________ Regards, Nothing is so strong as gentleness, and nothing is so gentle as true strength. -Ralph Sockman Joseph Reagle http://rpcp.mit.edu/~reagle/home.html reagle(a)mit.edu E0 D5 B2 05 B6 12 DA 65 BE 4D E3 C1 6A 66 25 4E

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IBM to unveil Internet banking alliance
by Joseph M. Reagle Jr. 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 11:20:03 -0400 >From: reagle(a)rpcp.mit.edu (Joseph M. Reagle Jr.) >To: reagle(a)rpcp.mit.edu >Subject: IBM to unveil Internet banking alliance > > > > SAN FRANCISCO (Reuter) - International Business Machines >Corp. <IBM.N> has made an alliance with more than a dozen >major banks to provide consumer banking services using >Internet technology, IBM and industry executives said Friday. > The consortium will be dubbed Integrity and will be owned >equally by IBM and each of the partners. > Banks will be able to use IBM's worldwide private network >as well as the Internet to enable their customers to do their >banking electronically. Specific details of the banking >arrangement have yet to be worked out, one of the executives >said. > IBM and the banking instititutions involved are due to >unveil the Integrity project in New York on Monday. > The alliance is one of several industry projects that >IBM's Internet Division is establishing to help large >companies utilize the Internet. > The banking alliance will have competition from other >electronic banking services being organised by companies like >Intuit Corp., America Online Inc. and Microsoft Corp. > Just this week, Intuit and America Online said a number of >leading financial institutions would offer their customers >online banking via AOL, using software developed by Intuit >known as BankNOW. > At an Internet and Electronic Commerce conference in San >Francisco this week, Intuit Chairman Scott Cook said the new >service targets people who want to use electronic transactions >to speed up their banking. > Cook said he expects the new service will differ from what >the IBM-led consortium might provide. > NationsBank has been among companies frequently mentioned >as participating in the IBM consortium, but a spokesman late >on Friday declined to discuss a Wall Street Journal report >that it would be involved in the consortium. > > > _______________________ Regards, Nothing is so strong as gentleness, and nothing is so gentle as true strength. -Ralph Sockman Joseph Reagle http://rpcp.mit.edu/~reagle/home.html reagle(a)mit.edu E0 D5 B2 05 B6 12 DA 65 BE 4D E3 C1 6A 66 25 4E

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Re: [WAS xs4all.nl] Terrorists
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 11:50 AM 9/9/96, Jon Lebkowsky wrote: >At 11:01 AM 9/9/96 +0200, Stephan Schmidt wrote: > >>One thought : How many of you would support terrorist >>web server (say Oklahoma, TWA, Iran, Lybia, RAF, IRA, ...) ? > >I.e. "How many of you support the right to free speech regardless of content." > >Wellll...there is the rule about speech which endangers; "fire in a crowded >theatre" is the cliche-example. What could a terrorist SAY that would >endanger? Personally, I'd rather have terrorists building html than bombs. As Dettweiler is usually so fond of pointing out, it would be disingenuous of us not to acknowledge that the systems we are talking about (fully untraceable, strong anonymity, digital pseudonyms, digital cash, information markets, i.e., "crypto anarchy") will in fact be used for all sorts of things. Including folks who want to blow up Parliament, the Congress, the People's Tribunal, etc. And by folks who wish to trade in CBW secrets, who wish to arrange contract killings, and so on. This has been well-known for many years. My paper on "Crypto Anarchy and Virtual Communities" was villified by no less than Dorothy Denning for describing how these things may evolve. I don't worry overmuch about a few thousand or even a few million people dying as a result of something we have had an influence on developing, anymore than the developers of many technologies need to worry about how others use their technologies. And the net effect of crypto anarchy is to destabilize and marginalize central governments, which is a net positive effect. If some eggs get broken in the process, the biological imperative will generate more eggs. No big deal. --Tim May We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1,257,787-1 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Re: [WAS xs4all.nl] Terrorists
by jfricker＠vertexgroup.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 08:32 AM 9/9/96 EDT, you wrote: >Stephan Schmidt <schmidt(a)pin.de> writes: > >> One thought : How many of you would support terrorist >> web server (say Oklahoma, TWA, Iran, Lybia, RAF, IRA, ...) ? > >http://www.terrorist.org ? > Damn! In my backyard no less! whois terrorist.org Terrorist Organization (TERRORIST2-DOM) 1525 SW 14th #4 Portland, OR 97201 US

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[less paranoid NOISE] Re: Odd Satellite observations
by jfricker＠vertexgroup.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Ok well like I said it was just paranoid noise. So the sats can locate ships at sea. I wonder what else? At 01:58 PM 9/9/96 GMT, Jim wrote: >On Sun, 08 Sep 1996 11:45:45 -0700, I wrote: > >>I saw three satellites gliding across the sky (east to west) in >>a tight right triangle formation. The entire formation was not >>bigger than my hand at arms length. Has anyone else observed >>this? > >John: You probably saw one of the NOSS (Naval Ocean Surveillance >System) constellations. There are several of these groupings -- all >in triangular arrays. They use some form of interferometry to locate >ships at sea. > >Jim > > >

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Lexis-Nexis Database
by Andrew Fabbro 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Note: personal experience indicates that L-N can remove you without your SSN, so there's no need to provide it, though they'll ask for it. Expect to attend a mandatory on-hold-music concert with a 20-25 minute program. L-N won't verify if your name is in the database, but will "performa process which will remove you if you are there". Andrew Fabbro <afabbro(a)umich.edu> ITD Marketing Research http://www-personal.umich.edu/~afabbro/ PGP mail preferred; finger for key ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PRIVACY Forum Digest Tuesday, 3 September 1996 Volume 05 : Issue 17 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 11:22:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Larry Hunter <hunter(a)intr.net> Subject: Lexis-Nexis personal information database Lexis-Nexis sells a commercial database called "Ptrax" which holds detailed personal information on nearly all Americans (L-N claims it contains 300 million names). This database includes name, current address, up to two previous addresses, phone number, birth-date, social security number, mother's maiden name and possible other personal information. This database is kept quite current. Through the Nexis Express service, this information could be available to any individual with a credit card. As most readers will are aware, such information could easily be used for theft of identity and other frauds. It is possible to have one's name removed from this database by making a telephone request. Call (800)543-6862, select option 4 ("all other questions") and tell the representative answering that you wish to remove your name from the Ptrax database. You may also send a fax to (513)865-7360, or physical mail to LEXIS-NEXIS / P.O. Box 933 / Dayton, Ohio 45401-0933. Sending physical mail to confirm your name has been removed is always a good idea. As word of the existence of this database has spread on the net, Lexis-Nexis has been inundated with calls, and has set up a special set of operators to handle the volume. In addition, Andrew Bleh (rhymes with "Play") is a manager responsible for this product, and is the person to whom complaints about the service could be directed. He can be reached at the above 800 number, selection option 4 and then ask for extension 3385. The information in this note has been been confirmed by me, and was originally provided in forwarded messages from Russell Whitaker, Jason Werner, Vern Winters, Katherine Florman and Reuben Snipper. Larry Hunter hunter(a)intr.net ------------------------------ End of PRIVACY Forum Digest 05.17 ************************

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