December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Zimmermann legal fund
by Alex de Joode 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

James A. Donald sez: [..] : US banks simply do not work well for international transactions. : The problem is not so much money laundering laws as intolerable : ignorance, provincialism, and incompetence. : If you insist that international transactions be mediated through : US banks, you are cutting your throat. : Go look for banks that are truly international. You will not : find them in America. You could try ABN*AMRO of The Netherlands, they have offices in most European countries, Asia, Middle East and Latin America, beside that they are the largest foreign bank in the US owning LaSalle in the Chicago area and European American Bank in the New York area. Citicorp also claims to have a global presence. -- Alex de Joode Fear Uncertainty and Doubt, Inc.

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Re: Zimmermann legal fund
by shamrock＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In article <199507302224.PAA10093(a)blob.best.net>, jamesd(a)echeque.com ("James A. Donald") wrote: >Many years ago I obtained a US account by mail >from overseas, using cheques made out to me from >US sources. > >I did this with the bank of America. No big problem. But as >time went by, their ability to handle financial events that were >out of the ordinary deteriorated spectacularly. > >Perhaps this is partly because things tightened up, but >it is also that most US banks have developed a monolithic >and obstructionist bureaucracy that is incapable of handling >any event that is out of the ordinary. Six years ago, you could walk into a Bank, show them your driver license, and open an account. Today, you need several pieces of ID. Three years ago, you could withdraw money from your own account without having your checkbook on you. Today, they make you pay for a "counter check". One year ago, you could walk into a bank an cash a check drawn onto an account at the very same bank. Today (Coast Federal), they make you pay a $10 check cashing fee. The US banking industry has gone to the dogs. The day a non-US bank offers an account that can be accessed over the net will be the day I close my US accounts. - -- - -- Lucky Green <mailto:shamrock@netcom.com> PGP encrypted mail preferred. - --- [This message has been signed by an auto-signing service. A valid signature means only that it has been received at the address corresponding to the signature and forwarded.] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Gratis auto-signing service iQBFAwUBMBwQDCoZzwIn1bdtAQGqHQF8C1QShMuN0Eq74mMI5rculIym8xjzYV8C mErjtB8tJ7UseKD9bmNY6dpWqBviplMp =aBGi -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Zimmermann legal fund
by liberty＠gate.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Mike wrote: <snip> >Interesting idea ... > >1st question or thing I would want to be certain of is the stability of the >currency of the realm so to speak. I wouldn't want to bank in a country that >had a weak currencey (sp) or was subject to roller coaster economics. > <snip> Who knows...An international free market in banking might eventually lead us back to the evil old gold standard and slowly make the bureaucrats of the Federal Reserve obsolete. How awful. <grin> JMR - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Freedom isn't Freeh iQCVAwUBMBxLLW1lp8bpvW01AQGw8AP/fAWaHgPO064Pv/4JoqcrLDmBBytGR0Tz MfArYuG7/yogyewbZaRkW/MAk7T4IsfXO3BnCQu8PS2MoaGTpTNE3qd30CP6G0v8 4ljZVUCgA+BW8yXfZVWUm+rsoZ8xXkZvtu6Ug8PKMjLzOoeSm+ET4Oq47SUKqSVC mHQVFh92asQ= =L5vT - -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Regards, Jim Ray "This year or next, for the first time since the end of World War II, we will spend more for interest payments on the debt than on defense. Quite a stunning thing." -- President Bill Clinton "I'm sure as hell stunned!" -- citizen Jim Ray - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ PGP key Fingerprint 51 5D A2 C3 92 2C 56 BE 53 2D 9C A1 B3 50 C9 C8 Key id. # E9BD6D35 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Support the Phil Zimmermann (Author of PGP) Legal Defense Fund! email: zldf(a)clark.net or visit http://www.netresponse.com/zldf ________________________________________________________________________ - --- [This message has been signed by an auto-signing service. A valid signature means only that it has been received at the address corresponding to the signature and forwarded.] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Gratis auto-signing service iQBFAwUBMBxQGioZzwIn1bdtAQFwzQGA1rJZcc07cuvSS9T0ktCECLfZYuPboy3n u00aBTPNMYTLXNc6V4vtHYAn85QOn7dT =bQfM -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Another Newsgate Dies
by kdf＠gigo.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Looks like mail2news(a)bham.ac.uk is also dead now (wait, isn't the utexas gate _also_ dead, or was it so problematic that it was not advised?): +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=++=+=+=+=+=+=+ * Originally from news2mail(a)sun4.bham.ac.uk (1:203/2) to John Erland. * Original dated: Jul 30 '95, 04:05 This reply has been automatically generated by the mail-to-news system. Your message was not posted to Usenet because this facility has been withdrawn. Use a different mail-to-news gateway, such as the one at cs.utexas.edu (mail news-group-name(a)cs.utexas.edu) The text of your rejected message is below... ---- -- : Fidonet: John Erland 1:203/8055.12 .. speaking for only myself. : Internet: kdf(a)gigo.com

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PRZ Interview in Infobahn Magazine
by K. M. Ellis 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I generally try to avoid buying anything with the word "Infobahn" on it, but in the premiere issue of this new magazine there's a 5-page article about Phil Zimmerman written by Jeff Elliot (of the National Review...but it's a good article anyway ;). It's pretty good--if anyone is new to the ongoing Zimmerman drama it's a good sum-up. -=Kathleen M. Ellis=- (This message also serves as a test for the new DC-Cypherpunks list server.) kelli(a)zeus.towson.edu http://zeus.towson.edu/~kelli/ GAT d? H+ s+++:-- !g p? !au a- w++@ !v@ c++++ UL++ P+ L+ 3 E---- N+ K W--- M-- V-- po- Y++ t+ 5-- jx R G'''' tv- b+++ D-- B e+ u** h* f++ r--- n+ z** Diverse Sexual Orientation Coll.Towson State University DSOC(a)zeus.towson.edu BigBrotherSystemsBBS........BigBrotherIsWatchingYou.......(410)494-3253#11

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U.S. Banks are not all that bad
by tcmay＠sensemedia.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hate to disagree with Lucky, but.... At 11:05 PM 7/30/95, Lucky Green wrote: >Six years ago, you could walk into a Bank, show them your driver license, >and open an account. >Today, you need several pieces of ID. I've cashed checks at Bank of America, Wells Fargo, Comerica (whatever _that_ is), etc., without having an account at these banks, and without having to pay any fee, and without any more ID than a driver's license. (I have no accounts at California banks, so all checks sent to me are, perforce, not checks drawn at "my" bank...and yet I've never had to pay a dime to cash a check. The times I've gotten out of state checks, I've of course not expected third parties to cash them for free for me...usually I just deposit them by mail.) >Three years ago, you could withdraw money from your own account without >having your checkbook on you. >Today, they make you pay for a "counter check". Hasn't happened to me. >One year ago, you could walk into a bank an cash a check drawn onto an >account at the very same bank. >Today (Coast Federal), they make you pay a $10 check cashing fee. Hasn't happened to me. I walk into banks, present the checks drawn on their own bank, ask to have it cashed, and all they want is to make sure I'm the person to whom the check is drawn. No fees, no refusals to cash. >The US banking industry has gone to the dogs. The day a non-US bank offers >an account that can be accessed over the net will be the day I close my US >accounts. Maybe I have the magic touch. I find U.S. banks to be marvels of efficiency. (But then I can remember running out of cash on a Saturday and having no way to get any more cash except by borrowing from friends...the ATM revolutionized things around 1980.) I'm not speaking of "interesting" banking applications, which, I fear, are not permitted by current U.S. banking laws. --Tim May .......................................................................... Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)sensemedia.net | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero 408-728-0152 | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Corralitos, CA | black markets, collapse of governments. Higher Power: 2^756839 | Public Key: PGP and MailSafe available. "National borders are just speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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C'punks at DefCon
by QLDM75A＠prodigy.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> Are any of us cpunks having a gathering at Defcon? (besides the > one Well, a couple other c'punks have mailed me to determine a time and a place. It looks like everyone wants to meet in the lobby of the Tropicana sometime Friday before Hacker Jeopardy. Nobody has stated a concrete time yet so I guess we'll all just wander through the lobby every now and then. Any suggestions on a time? Eldon Jenkins

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About your online business.
by 05551984＠turboma.dyn.ml.org 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Re: PRZ Interview in Infobahn Magazine
by tcmay＠sensemedia.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Lord, I'm going to get in trouble for writing this message... (And Phil, if you happen to read Cypherpunks now and read this, understand the context of my comments...) At 12:57 AM 7/31/95, K. M. Ellis wrote: >I generally try to avoid buying anything with the word "Infobahn" on it, >but in the premiere issue of this new magazine there's a 5-page article >about Phil Zimmerman written by Jeff Elliot (of the National Review...but >it's a good article anyway ;). It's pretty good--if anyone is new to the >ongoing Zimmerman drama it's a good sum-up. It may be a good article, but as soon as I saw yet another "personality" interview with PRZ in the new trendzine "Infobahhn," I put the issue back on the shelf. (Not just because of the PRZ personality piece, but because I'm ODd (that's "overdosed" to you younger folks) on "Wired," "Mondo 2000," "Access," "Ray Gun," "The Net", and all the slightly more technical magazines like "MIME World," "Java Times," and "Diffie-Hellman Newsletter" (yes, these last three items are fictitious). Just my opinion, but I think the Information Superhypeway is indeed being over-hyped. In case you're wondering, I did indeed agree to be photographed for the cover of "Wired" #2, a few years ago. All I can say is, "I'm sorry." Bay Aryans can attest to the fact that in the last several months I've refused to have anything to do with the various hypings and personality profiles the info rags are so focussed on. I enjoyed talking to Timothy Leary for a few minutes at a party, but refused to appear on camera with him in a "Cypherpunks on parade" segment for a Japanese television program. I'm not condemning those who do interviews--I did a few myself--but I think there' something to be said for avoiding the "personality profiles" which so superficially cover the issues. (At least it's not (yet?) as bad at the media's fascination with Mitnick and Shimomura....I about barfed to read the tale of "The Hooker and the Hacker" in the latest "Esquire," the one with Cindy Crawford on the cover. Then, just today, my younger brother told me he'd been reading about Mitnick and Shimomura in "Rolling Stone.") Anyway, flame away with your claims that publicity is good, that the dozens of PRZ interviews are doing some good. I'm becoming more of a Zen Buddhist monastic skeptic on these issues every day. --Tim May, happy to be far from the madding crowd .......................................................................... Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)sensemedia.net | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero 408-728-0152 | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Corralitos, CA | black markets, collapse of governments. Higher Power: 2^756839 | Public Key: PGP and MailSafe available. "National borders are just speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Re: U.S. Banks are not all that bad
by cman＠communities.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

As near as I can tell, there are spotty instances of the behavior Lucky describes, but it is becoming more common, especially wrt required ID. I must say that I've had some absolutely amazingly bad experiences with banks in Asia, Mexico and Central America, so I'm a skeptic when it comes to assuming that non-US banks are light years better. Although I have no direct experience of European banking, I do know that the European banking industry, taken as a whole, is substantially behind the US banking industry in automation and efficiency. Most of the irritation that I hear reported about US banks is the result of pushing customers too hard to change expensive banking habits or erecting policies that eliminate money-losing practices without regard to their impact on customer goodwill. At First Interstate recently, I had to make a withdrawal from the teller, as the ATM was broken. Their policy _does_ reqiure a "counter check", and normally they charge, but when I explained that the ATM was kaput they did it for free. It is _much_ cheaper for them if you use the ATM, and this kind of policy is designed to encourage you to do this. It's the kind of thing that the market will sort out nicely -- if it irritates people and loses them money more than it saves them money, they will stop doing it. Remember, the US has an absolutely fantastic amount of competition wrt banking services, especially when compared to other countries.

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