December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Apple, AOCE, and key pair security
by Peter Wayner 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Last night, I installed my version of System 7 Pro-- the new version of the Apple Macintosh Operating System with built in Digital Signature capabilities. Here's the details: 1) The package contains two extra pieces of paper. One is a voucher that is good for one free certificate. The second is an address and instructions for just what to do. 2) The installation process is very simple. You click on some icon to get the software running and then you: i) Fill in a form with your name and address. ii) Choose a country from a very long list. iii) Add in an identifying phrase. The manual says that you should "Type a word or phrase you can remember. You may have to provide this phrase if the Approval Authority needs to verify your identity." This may be used if you forget or lose something. I'm not sure. Perhaps it is a random number seed. Perhaps it is transmitted to RSA for the same purposes as the "mother's maiden name" passphrase used by banks. I don't know. iv) Then you type in a password. This is the same password that you type in each time you want to make a signature for a document. It seems to encrypt your private key. Jim Bidzos says that the software is careful enough to do this work only in memory where it is relatively safe. v) You choose a location for your signing icon. At first this will be "unapproved" and it won't work. Eventually, when you get a disk back from RSA, you'll be able to sign a document just by dragging it on to the signing icon. Then a dialog box will open up asking you for password. vi) A "processing" box appears and says that it will need to compute for the next 1 to 10 minutes. It doesn't say that it is looking for a prime, but that is entirely possible. Paranoids will hate this opacity. 3) Now, you get a nice print out of some random characters. The text says that you can just send the paper if you've a printer that is capable of 300 dpi resolution. Apparently, they plan on using OCR to read this in. 4) You take this paper to a Notary Public and present 3 forms of identification. The form asks the Notary to write down all of this and sign it. It also instructs the Notary that this cannot be done in any other way than in person. No Agents, Spouses etc. 5) You mail it off to a PO Box in Belmont CA and wait. 6) When it comes back, you probably get a disk that will allow you to initialize everything. Some Random Observations: *) The Certificates come with a built-in time limit. They're only good for two years. The software comes with a renewal mechanism so I think that people will be mailing checks in a couple of years. *) I'm not sure how complicated this procedure is for large corporate users. The book hints that you may get your signature from a company representative. *) They included a sample signer so you can play with the technology out of the box. I signed a few things and got the software to break by trying to sign the "DigiSign Utility." I.e. itself. *) The signature verification process is very well integrated. You simply open up the little info box that is available for each icon. There will be a extra button with a pen. Push it and the name and address of the signatory pops up. *) The signature is saved as a resource in the resource fork. The address is in the clear including several addresses for RSA. I tried fudging with them for grins and the signature broke. The software reported that it was tampered with. Good show. *) It took about 30 seconds to sign a 200k document on a IIci. Final impressions: Software Ease of Use: A+ Paranoia Avoidance: F (no source code or instructions on how to generate your own signature) RSA Cash Infusion: A (more checks in 2 years) Boost to Public Crypto Usage in short term: A+ Boost to Public Crypto Usage Two Years from now when the Certificates Run Out: INC (Who can remember to re-authorize these things?)

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No Subject
by owner-cypherpunks 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Re: a desperate plea
by peter honeyman 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

yeah, and maybe we need mike's opinion as to whether mail forgery is the same as high treason. mutter. this saga has moved me from sympathy to amusement to boredom. irritation follows close on boredom's heels. i wish lance would just go get some prozac or whatever modern drug cures whatever he's got. barring that, i wish he would just go away. peter

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Re: Net Regulation
by dmandl＠lehman.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> From: peb(a)procase.com (Paul Baclace) > > > From: "Perry E. Metzger" <pmetzger(a)lehman.com> > > Admittedly, if someone could put a *loyal* armed soldier over > > everyone's shoulder on earth they could control everyone. How, though, > > could they manage to do this? > > By getting everyone to obey the "policeman inside" (concept due to > Wm. Burroughs, recently quoted by Wm. Gibson in WIRED Sept/Oct). Yup, the state has been counting on this for years. It's hard to explain how people put up with the shit they put up with any other way. Wilhelm Reich talked about this many many years ago (concept of "character armor," which is probably where WSB got the idea. To paraphrase WR: "The puzzling thing isn't why 2% of people who are starving steal food, but why the other 98% *don't*." (Forgive my anti-propertarian example, but I think you get the idea.) --Dave.

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Re: Net Regulation
by Duncan Frissell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com P >By getting everyone to obey the "policeman inside" (concept due to P >Wm. Burroughs, recently quoted by Wm. Gibson in WIRED Sept/Oct). P > P > P >Paul E. Baclace P >peb(a)procase.com P > P > If you've looked around much you will have noticed that the "policemn inside" is falling down on the job. Disobedience seems to be increasing. Duncan Frissell --- WinQwk 2.0b#1165

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Re: Net Regulation
by Duncan Frissell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com C >Douglas Barnes (cman(a)illuminati.io.com) writes: C >1) Let's say, just for instance, that all computer programmers in C >Europe and the US switch places, and become Permanent Tourists. Do you C >think that anyone would notice? Jobs that are ripe for virtual expatriation: o software writing (obviously) o all the rest of the software industry o all other kinds of writing o financial services o law o journalism o entertainment (acting, vocals, production, VR, techs, distribution, sales -- the whole chain) o telecommunications (almost all industry segments) o marketing, design, advertising, sales of most products o teaching (in spite of your claim to the contrary) o medicine (large chunks including specialist consultation and psychology). Slick Willie included "virtual medicine" in his AHSA'93 propaganda for God's sake. o gambling o "management" This is just with current technology, once the VR interface gets good enough, we can add prostitutes and surgeons to the list. C >3) One of the persistent problems in solving unemployment problems in C > both the US and Europe is that folks JUST WON'T MOVE. Let's assume that no American moves. What about all the people who are already offshore or in countries that permit easy offshore activities by their residents. With a 30% to 50% tax savings, they can undercut the domestic competition who will have to either relocate or face declines. C >Most Americans are hidebound, closed-minded people who couldn't C >even find the US on an unlabelled map, much less MOVE to another C >COUNTRY. But not a problem for many of the rest of the world's population. Besides, as we grow a society on the nets, any residents of *that* society can move their bodies anywhere without leaving home. And what are the political characteristics of net society? Since coercion is difficult, persuasion (whether reasoned or ranting) is the primary technique. It is a free society. As long as it remains free (and try to imagine the technical difficulties involved in bringing it to heel), many people will be spending a lot of their time in a free society (even the channel surfers downloading their favourite vids). They won't like having to come back to earth to deal with the DMV. C >4) The inability of most of our fellow citizens to process text and C > numbers is staggering; it's not clear by any means that they're C > ready for jobs in their same CITY where they live, if it involves C > any significant reading or writing skills. How are these people Their "point and click" muscles are well-developed. Once the VR interface improves... But seriously, they don't have to do anything to benefit from the technology-driven social revolution we're part of. They benefit from markets or electronics whether they know anything or not. Besides, they play one of the most important roles in the digital revolution -- as *customers*. C >Remember, they're still citizens of an alleged democracy and thus have C >their collective finger on one of the largest coercive apparati in the C >world. With no place to apply the force. A "target lean" environment not because there are so few targets but because they are mixed in with so much other activity. The power of the nation state was based on superior organization and its control of armed muscle, transportation, and communications. Aside from other states, its only opponents were poorly organized peasants or townies "bound to the soil." States no longer control communications or transportation and their opposition is rich and mobile. Their hierarchical organization is expensive, slow, and has few returns to scale in an era where I can pick up the phone and rent a 747 within an hour. It can't cope with very nimble markets that will continue to accumulate a higher and higher proportion of the world's wealth. The organized muscle deployed by states is of limited value with few open targets to fight. It just costs money. C >5) If folks don't move, but try to get cute with where their income C >is coming from, they will almost certainly be persecuted by the IRS, C >independent of current law, if their numbers become significant. Then why haven't they done so yet with tax compliance at an all-time low according to official IRS studies. 10 million non-filers, 10 million fraudulent filers, 52% unreported income by small businesses, 61% non-filers among US expatriates. C >It wouldn't take too many "examples" to force whatever tax regime the C >IRS felt was necessary. So governments are all powerful. They can't fail. The May Day parade in Moscow will be great next year. Tax evasion is impossible. You can't win, you can't break even, you can't get out of the game. Drugs have been banished from the cities; crime has disappeared; all government school pupils are literate, numerate, and well-groomed. I realize that it's sometimes hard to see major institutional change while it is underway. Governments face very grave institutional challenges. Revenue losses off the top will hurt as different factions fight for the remaining dough. Don't think of virtual expatriation as a conscious conversion to a philosophy of self-government, a political movement, or a "business plan" -- think of it as changing channels. Duncan Frissell And I just wanted to thank everyone for helping me write my talk for the First European Conference on Computers, Freedom, and Privacy (or whatever the order is) -- November 20th in London. --- WinQwk 2.0b#1165

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Re: MEDUSA'S SNAKE SPEAKS
by koontzd＠lrcs.loral.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Found in my mailbox. I've contacted root(a)netcom.com. Any suggestions? (the login name has been changed to conceal the guilty, do not attempt to use it. I added the quote at the end for effect. Do you like it?) >Still posting my phone number, asshole? Are you really trying to pick a Ya, change your login/get an aliases for posting, lie fallow, be succinct. If one were to consider your stature in posting to the net as coin or valuata, both parties to the above exchange are passing bad checks. --- produce, consume, die.

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ADMIN: proposed new policy on the mailing list
by fnerd＠smds.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I want to publicly support the proposal to delay unsigned messages. Of course, it's easy to fake a signature, so the sigs would have to be verified against some list of public keys--perhaps automatically updatable. This is despite the fact that signing securely would be very tough for people like me. -fnerd(a)smds.com

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Re: help/subscribe
by Dark 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Re: Subscription requests and Bandwidth It seems I perpetrated a vile and offensive error in sending a subscribe request directly to the list. My request of course generated a multitude of angry cypherpunks (Not the type of people you want angry with you I might add) to reply and tell me where to look and where to stick my request (in the most polite possible ways I assure you....) Now allow me to waste more bandwidth and apoligize :) On another note: Has anyone noticed the post regarding U Chicago's computer policy and it's omnious overtones against psuedo and anonymous postings? I believe it was floating around alt.privacy and I was wondering if anyone had any more idea about where it might go from there. Despite the fact that I believe the policy to just be lacking in general and its limitation on privacy in general an oversite, I wonder how much intent was involved. Shall I provide a copy of the offending policy or has it circulated yet...? -uni- (Dark)

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Re: a desperate plea
by lefty＠apple.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Ray faovrs us with > >J. Michael Diehl writes: >> According to rjc(a)gnu.ai.mit.edu: >> > I'm coming to kill your family tommorow with a rusty razor. >> >> This is a bit tasteless, don't you think. Come on, grow up. > > That was sort of an inside joke directed at Perry. (it's the motd >of the Extropian's mail server) However, if it sapped any of LD's bodily >fluids, I'm happy. I'd have to be, since I'm an evil, treasonous >Benedict Arnold of cypherpunks who should be hung by the neck or deported >off the net. No, in point of fact, you're a poorly adjusted infant who finds it amusing to stand at a safe distance and clog up the net with threats which he surely would never dare to make face-to-face. Ray, before you recommend psychological evaluation for others, it might be worth considering looking into some for yourself. You might also want to give Jacoby and Meyers a call and ask them for a quick rundown on the prevailing assault statutes. Please take your cowardly bravado to private email. You're about as impressive as a third-grader sticking out his tongue at the playground bully from behind the safety of his mother's skirt, a situation with which I can't help but feel you have some personal familiarity. -- Lefty (lefty(a)apple.com) C:.M:.C:., D:.O:.D:.

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