December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Orthogonality and Disaster Recovery (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 18:03:16 -0800 > From: David Sternlight <david(a)sternlight.com> > Subject: Re: Orthogonality and Disaster Recovery > > Do all E-Mail vendors need to be cryptologist?? > > If the client's e-mail is to be secure, yes. But let's be accurate here. I absolute agree we need to be accurate. To that end, it is not the applications that need security but rather the network and session layers. > > Do all cryptologist need > > to be application vendors?? Obviously not. > > Now that IS nonsensical because cryptology is a wide and deep art only a small > part of which has to do with mail applications themselves. In contrast, mail > applications to be secure must use encryption. There's some very muddy > thinking going on in your post. He said 'application vendors', not just mail. Pay attention to the details of the argument and quit trying to change the subject without specificaly noteing the change, otherwise known as a strawman. His muddy thinking doesn't stand alone. > > PGP is a tool much like a > > database is. The majority of vendors who develop apps that require a > > database do not go out and write their own, rather they use a database > > engine that is suited to their needs. > > Except for the occasional password protection, databases don't need encryption > to the extent e-mail does. I work everyday with the NSA, CIA, Dod, Army, SAIC, all the phone companies, many of the major banks, Intel, Human Genome Project, etc. Every one of these folks would disagree with you. In fact it was one of the motivating factors behind Tivoli comming out with their new Security Management application because vendors required us to move away from our custom databases and toward industry standards (Oracle, Sybase, Informix, DB2, DBMX, etc.) *AND* at the same time requiring a better security mechanism than the existing one we use (DES & Kerberos based). The reality of the market does not support your thesis. > You miss the point here. And you miss the many worked examples. RSA is selling > lots and lots of toolkits for lots and lots of money for in-line integration > into applications, not for pre- and post-processing. The former is the way to > go; the latter a kludge until something better comes along. Are they involved with the new Cryptographic Standard projects of the government and Tivoli - IBM? I don't think so, at least I still haven't seen them involved in any of the work I have had access to so far; much to my own personal disappointment. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there | | be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves. | | | | -Alan Greenspan- | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Webdeals! Less than wolesale
by SHOP＠netsteward.cm 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Deal of the day. A chance to save money........a penny saved is a penny earned:--Ben Franklin__1706-1790. Various products below wholesale featured daily, straight UPS shipping YOU calculate, NO HANDLING charges. Something for everyone at: http://netsteward.com/webdeals.htm Thank you for your time, please have a pleasant day. One time email.

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Re: poverty traps (Re: Sa (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: poverty traps (Re: Sa (fwd) > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 23:40:15 -0600 (CST) > From: ichudov(a)algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home) > Jim Choate wrote: > > > Food: $600/month (generous) > > > > Hell, I'm single and come close to this and food costs in Texas are a LOT > > lower than in New York. Though I do eat out at lunch every weekday. And no, > > I don't go partying regularly at all. Way too busy with work (>16hrs/day > > 5 days a week & 16-20 on weekends) to do that other than a couple of times a > > month. I went to the store today and bought enough food for 4 days and it > > cost me $30. So that comes to something like $250 - $300 for me not counting > > lunches, and that's for just a single person. Multiply that for 6 and the > > numbers are considerably higher. > > Oh my Gawd! And I thought I was spending too much on food! I guess the > prices in OK are the same as in TX. >From the times I have been in Oklahoma (my family is ensconced along the Red River - Murphies, Joneses, Peoples, etc.) I would say the costs are about the same. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there | | be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves. | | | | -Alan Greenspan- | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Re: Orthogonal (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 16:33:58 -0800 > From: Kent Crispin <kent(a)bywater.songbird.com> > Subject: Re: Orthogonal > The first context where I am aware of this use of the term orthogonal > is from language design -- it was promoted by Niklaus Wirth and other > purists, with languages like Pascal, Modula, CLU, and so on. Larry > Wall's "perl" language, with its slogan "there's more than one way to > do it", is a direct revolt against the language purists. > > The basic idea is that a computer language should have the minimum > number of constructs necessary to span the intended application. So > for example, you don't provide hyperbolic trig functions, because the > user can implement them using simpler math functions. On the other > hand, you do supply commonly used math functions that would otherwise > require iterative algorithms. > > I do believe the use of the term this way was inspired by the > notion of a 'basis' in a vector space -- a set of orthogonal > vectors that span the space, ideally, unit vectors. Can you better define the term 'basis'? I can see the union 'build complicated things out of basic building blocks' and the use of Occam's Razor (I'm as lazy as any other programmer) but fail to see how this maps to anything relating to the concept of orthogonal. Which clearly doesn't have any inherent minimalist cast. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there | | be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves. | | | | -Alan Greenspan- | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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DoS
by Robert A. Hayden 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

This was forwarded to me in house. Just FYI. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 09:38:28 -0600 From: Chris Silker <csilker(a)means.net> MCI RELEASES FREE DENIAL OF SERVICE TRACKER SECURITY TOOL MCI has released an interesting piece of software called the Denial of Service Tracker (DoS). The security program helps track the source of denial of service attacks, which aim to overload a target computer system to the point that it's unusable for anything else. According to MCU, the DoS Tracker works against SYN, ICMP flood, bandwidth saturation, and concentrated source attacks, and is currently being modified to detect other DoS-based attacks, including a new attack called the Smurf. The info, a free download, and all the technical information is at the site. A must have for sysops. <http://www.security.mci.net/dostracker> =-=-=-=-=-= Robert Hayden rhayden(a)means.net UIN: 3937211 IP Network Administrator http://rhayden.means.net MEANS Telcom (612) 230-4416

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Mmphmmphmmmph! (WAS Re: I Broke PGP!!!)
by bureau42 Anonymous Remailer 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

That was the sound of me eating crow. Although I am a closet reader of the True Story of the Internet series I am generally perturbed by the many of the inane Truthmonger posts to the list. I had decided several days ago to make a small apology to Truthmonger for some of my more emotional attacks on him (or her) but I put it off and put it off. I decided not to put it off after reading the following: Six wrote: > Bonus Question: "Who is TruthMonger #1?" > Bonus Answer: "He's Randall Farmer's best friend." That is _exactly_ what I thought when I read Randalls whining post about how Truthmongers rudeness might necessitate Randall instituting security and identity procedures that would enable others to verify whether a digitally signed message was indeed from himself. When I saw Tokoyo Rose echoing my thoughts then I thought I should take the trouble to point out what I myself learned from Truthmonger. [Although I am not certain if it is the same one.] I made the mistake of informing several people that the exercise that was suggested in Epiloge 5? of Infowar was bullshit but when I tried it it spit out my secret key like a hot damn much to my surprise. So I owe Truthmonger an apology but it will not be a public one. [Very few of you would know me anyway since I am mostly a list lurker.] The reason I will not make a public apology is because I also had PGP spit out the secret keys of my boss and coworkers. Although I am not a bad person in general possession of these keys is making me begin to think like Truthmonger. I will probably just test whether I can indeed password break them and use them to decipher a few files and then erase my copy of them. [Maybe.] [Maybe I should make my .sig line "Beware of Truthmonger inside!"] I did a search for the post that Tokoyo Rose talked about Truthmongers nephew adding things to Truthmongers email and found: > Also, as a 'teaser', I would like to announce to one and all that > the quickly closing saga of 'InfoWar' will include an epilogue > chapter titled, "I Broke PGP," written by myself. > Believe it or not, I speak the truth, although not in a way that > it direct and obvious. > If you think I am bullshiting, then stop washing your asshole, > starting today, because if you can show me I am wrong, I will kiss > your ugly, hairy ass. > > Love and Kisses, > TruthMangler After looking at other posts that have Truthmangler in them instead of Truthmonger I think that it might be a sign that the nephew is messing with them since they seem to have things inserted in them which appear to come more from a childs mind than Truthmongers. [If that is possible.] (;>) I would be interested in finding out if other people have been able to get secret keys using the method described in the Infowar book. We are using PGP 2.6.3i. I wonder about other versions. Croweatingmonger

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re: Hlep
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Misty Ed the incredible talking horse.

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Re: NAMBLA embattled -- mirror sites?
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Declan writes: >Folks on f-c and cypherpunks have mirrored holocaust revisionist web >pages, banned books, and censored newspapers. Now I understand that NAMBLA >is in danger of losing its home on the web. Anyone up for mirroring the >(text-only) publications of perhaps the world's most controversial >organization? Nah, I'll pass on this one. If the membership list is included, I'd be glad to forward it to my local police, though... I'm not sure the right to free speech includes the right to endorse guys fucking little boys, whether they give it a moniker like "transgenerational love" or not. Any sex with a minor is rape, since they can't legally give consent. All Hillary Klinton's "It Takes A Village" bullshit aside, I can't see giving NAMBLA the same kind of protection as someone like Zundel. Ratbert

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Don't Worry, Be Happy
by Blanc 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Unix and other OSes were designed for Elite Techno-savvy Info Warriors like yourselves. Windows and the other MS apps are designed to appeal to the "common folk" who would still rather use a pc than a Mac in spite of psychological counseling against it (<g>). They have choices, there are many stores and vendors, they take their pick. As long as you can get what you want, what do youall care what other people use - why do you worry for everyone? .. Blanc

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Re: Orthogonal (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > From: Mark Rogaski <wendigo(a)ne-wendigo.jabberwock.org> > Subject: Re: Orthogonal (fwd) > Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 01:36:06 -0500 (EST) > An entity claiming to be Jim Choate wrote: > > : I can see the union 'build complicated things out of basic building blocks' > : and the use of Occam's Razor (I'm as lazy as any other programmer) but fail > : to see how this maps to anything relating to the concept of orthogonal. > : Which clearly doesn't have any inherent minimalist cast. > : > > Minimalism is merely a by-product of orthogonality. Which orthogonality are you speaking of? > A language is considered > orthogonal if builtin functions do not provide overlapping functionality. Are you talking linguistics, philosophy, or computer? Consider, historicaly the point of 'orthogonality' was to indicate a *non-overlapping* or reducable structure, something which provides a reference to evaluate other things. > So the term orthogonal probably refers to the fact that there is no > point of intersection in the functionality of the language (or system, as > the thread started out). Orthogonal implies there is intersection, it's hard to have a closed geometric shape (-gonal) or a right angle (ortho-) axis system without them. > And I will not argue about vector spaces until I get bookshelves and actually > dig my Linear Algebra texts out of the boxes around my apartment. Good, I understand how it is used in vector spaces and don't really get my jollies off on arguing on unrelated issues. What I *would* like to know is how a mathematical term related to geometry and right angles got expanded *historicaly* to mean something completely unrelated. I don't think a linear algebra book is relevant to this question, despite the protestations of the techno-masturbatory ot the contrary. There are a whole host of users on this list who live by strawman arguments. I am glad to see you aren't one of them (apparently). ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there | | be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves. | | | | -Alan Greenspan- | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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