December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: microcurrency: Netscape vs. Microsoft
by Hal Finney 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" <vznuri(a)netcom.com> > I predict that microcurrency will not catch on in a big way > until it is integrated with browsers, and when it is, it > will be adopted in an insanely large rush like the way > the web itself caught on with the GUI (and was mostly comatose > before it). > [...] > notice how much crypto really caught on when Netscape > incorporated it, and how this action alone did more for > the proliferation of crypto in cyberspace, almost, than > all prior efforts combined. I think that microcurrency > will be unleashed in a very similar way. I assume you are referring to secure web connections via SSL in talking about crypto. In that case there was a very strong pent up demand for the service. Customers were afraid to send credit card numbers and other personal information across the web. Sellers were pressuring the net server companies to do something to quell these concerns so on-line selling could succeed. Netscape did it, and in the grand tradition of the net, implementation beat design and SSL defeated SHTTP. In its early versions SSL had a lot of problems but it was a good enough solution for what it needed to be. The question is whether there is similar market demand for pay per view web pages. Do web service operators think they can offer value added services which will motivate customers to click through the for-pay link? Maybe porn would be a good initial market. There are so many sites where you've got to sign up ahead of time for $20 or so for a month's membership. This is a considerable barrier. But if you could just take a peek for $.50 there would be a lot of people interested. Porn is what started the VCR market before it later "went respectable", so maybe the same thing could happen here. I know that a lot of the initial vendors with First Virtual were selling racy pictures, although I think the company has taken steps to reduce their association with that market. This is not exactly the microcurrency that Vladimir is talking about but it would be a good model for integrating some payment system with a browser and it could serve as the foundation for other for-pay pages with lower fees. There is also the issue of sellers learning to use the various payment systems which are out there. Here again if Netscape and Microsoft would just pick one then everyone could standardize on it, which would increase acceptance a great deal. Ecash as it is implemented now has the problem that the customer has to open a special bank account. What you need is a payment system where you can use your existing VISA card and withdraw cash against it into your electronic wallet. This is pretty close to the FV model but their payment system is somewhat clumsy. I haven't followed the electronic payment market closely for the last couple of years. Are there any payment systems which look like good candidates for integration with browsers? Hal

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Donna Rice, etc.
by John C. Randolph 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Toto wrote: > Sir Robin of Locksley wrote: > > > Donna Rice-Hughes from Enough is Enough says: "It discusses > > > three primary areas of our concern: letting the court know the > > > problems on the Internet. Adult pornography, indecency, and > > > child porn as well. > > Now it's porn, tomorrow it's you saying what you beleive (that > > might also be the truth...) If one is offended by something, > > don't look! How come Catholicism doesn't get banned and outlawed? > > Hell, it offends me... >I didn't see the question anywhere, so I'm asking: >This Donna Rice-Hughes couldn't possibly be the Donna Rice who sat on >Gary Hart's lap for the famous picture, could she? Yes, it's the very same Bimbo who scuttled Gary Hart's campaign, and then parlayed that notoriety into a modeling contract.. Mind you, I'm all for Bimbos knocking dipshit hypocrites out of the running for a presidential nomination, but the idea of having this "party girl" try to police the content of my beloved internet really pisses me off. She made money in the past wiggling her tits for the camera, and again, I'm all for bimbos making money wiggling for cameras, but when she tries to tell me what I should or shouldn't be able to see, my reply *must* be: Fuck you, you hypocritical, ignorant, little slut. I am also going to take issue with her trysting with a married man. I wish Hart's wife had verbally beaten the living shit out of her. -jcr Obligatory Crypto Policy reference: Why couldn't she have scuttled Feurher Clinton's career, instead?

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CFP'97
by Bruce Koball 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The Seventh Conference on Computers, Freedom, and Privacy March 11-14, 1997 San Francisco Airport Hyatt Regency; Burlingame, California CFP'97 : Commerce & Community CFP'97 will assemble experts, advocates, and interested people from a broad spectrum of disciplines and backgrounds in a balanced public forum to address the impact of new technologies on society. This year's theme addresses two of the main drivers of social and technological transformation. How is private enterprise changing cyberspace? How are traditional and virtual communities reacting? Topics in the wide-ranging main track program will include: PERSPECTIVES ON CONTROVERSIAL SPEECH THE COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT OF THE NET GOVERNMENTAL & SOCIAL IMPLICATIONS OF DIGITAL MONEY INTERNATIONAL PERSPECTIVES ON CRYPTOGRAPHY CYPHERPUNKS & CYBERCOPS REGULATION OF ISPs SPAMMING INFOWAR INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY AND INFO-PROPERTY THE 1996 ELECTIONS: CREATING A NEW DEMOCRACY THE COMING COLLAPSE OF THE NET CFP'97 will feature parallel-track lunchtime workshops during the main conference on topics including: THE CASE AGAINST PRIVACY HOW A SKIPTRACER OPERATES CYBERBANKING HOW THE ARCHITECTURE REGULATES RIGHTS IN AVATAR CYBERSPACE NATIONAL I.D. CARDS PUBLIC KEY INFRASTRUCTURES EUROPEAN IP LAW SEXUAL HARASSMENT IN CYBERSPACE VIRTUAL COMMUNITIES DOMAIN NAMES ARCHIVES, INDEXES & PRIVACY GOVERNMENT REGULATION OF ECASH CRYPTO AND THE 1st AMENDMENT The conference will also offer a number of in-depth tutorials on subjects including: * The Economics of the Internet * Regulation of Internet Service Providers * The Latest in Cryptography * The Constitution in Cyberspace * Info War: The Day After * Personal Information and Advertising on the Net * Transborder Data Flows and the Coming European Union * Intellectual Property Rights on the Net: A Primer INFORMATION A complete conference brochure and registration information are available on our web site at: http://www.cfp.org For an ASCII version of the conference brochure and registration information, send email to: cfpinfo(a)cfp.org

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Mondex
by nobody＠zifi.genetics.utah.edu 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Warning: if you fuck a Tim Mayflower in the ass, a tapeworm might bite your penis. /// (0 0) ____ooO_(_)_Ooo__ Tim Mayflower

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DO YOU BELIEVE THAT YOU'RE MEANT TO BE HEALTHY, HAPPY AND FINANCIALLY FREE?
by meritassoc＠earthlink.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hello,^Morons, Do you believe that youre meant to be healthy, happy and financially free? Nutritionist and other health professionals tell us that we should eat the right foods, to get the appropriate vitamins and minerals in our daily diet and exercise in order to stay healthy, right. RIGHT! We are slowly realizing that the soil from which our fruits & vegetables come from is also being depleted and in spite of the fact that we try to restore those nutrients artificially, we are not really putting everything back in. Several years an amazing discovery was made in the Soviet Union and kept secret from the rest of the world until the fall of the Berlin Wall. This discovery stimulated long term research, funded completely by the Soviet government and headed by the late Dr. I. I. Brekhman, a world renowned & brilliant scientist. His vision and breakthrough research over 45 years revealed many of natures most important secrets, which recognized him as the "Father of Adaptogens". Dr. Brekhman, with a team of over 1,200 biologist and physicians, analyzed and investigated adaptogens in one of the most massive programs of human testing in scientific history. [No where else except the Soviet Union could this have taken place.] They produced thousands of dietary studies which definitively validated the safety, benefits and astounding capabilities of adaptogens. The cosmonauts used Dr. Brekhmans formulas to cope with motion sickness, extended confinements, weightlessness and inherent stress of space travel. The Olympic athletes used Dr. Brekhmans formulas to improve performance, immune resistance, stamina, endurance, recovery and to cope with the stress of competition. In a broadly-based study of 60,000 truck drivers at an automobile plant in Tolyiaatti for over 10 years revealed that those workers using adaptogens experienced a 25% reduction in lost time as well as a 40% decrease in influenza and a general improvement in their overall health. In another study of 655 flight personnel, adaptogens improved the recovery process after long and tiring flight schedules. We could go on with the results of his research, but I think you get the picture. The secrets of Dr. Brekhmans work are no longer locked inside Russia. Adaptogens could soon become as American as apple pie. In 1991, Dr. Brekhman joined forces with PrimeQuest in an exclusive collaboration to convert his wisdom into a whole new generation of adaptogenic formulas. The results far exceed his work with cosmonauts and athletes. He designed a total program for well-being...a program which gives you what you have been missing. Before his death in July 1994, Dr. Brekhman was able to complete the goal of his lifes work: "It has always been my dream to create a special formula for life, to make them healthy, stable, happy and to protect them from stress. All of my life I have worked toward this goal - and now, finally I have achieved a breakthrough. It is a complicated preparation of natural plant materials which are the best and most effective ingredients I have studied in all of my years of research...ingredients that work together in a combination that derives additional power from the mixture itself." No other product on the market today has undergone the clinical studies on humans that these products underwent in the 40+ years of research. PrimeQuest products can increase your energy and vitality in the most natural way. You can: · Reduce Stress · Lose body fat · Increase energy · Eliminate A.D.D. · Improve Sex Drive · Reduce P.M.S. To get a FREE TAPE in which a Harvard MD reveals the SECRET and more information about obtaining these products or becoming a distributor yourself. E-mail your name, address & phone # to Meritassoc(a)earthlink.net or call 1-800-305-6451.

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Global Home-based Business
by Elisabeth＠ix.netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Re: I beg you, PLEASE prove that 0.123456789101112131415 is IRRATIONAL
by Sir Robin of Locksley 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Dear Cypher Punks, > >I BEG YOU TO HELP ME!!! > >Is it possible to prove that number 0.1234567891011121314151617181920... >iz irrational? Most definately. All you need to do is prove that the set of this number is uncountable, ergo is irrational. If you have friend who have done math in real analysis they can explain more. > >Or may be it is rational? > >Also, another question for math geniuses here: > >Is it REALLY true that there are real numbers that cannot be generated >by any algorithm? Some guy said that since the set of algorithms is >countable, but the set of real numbers is more than countable, there >must be some numbers for which there is no algorithms that generate them. If you show me an algorythm that calculates the real number TT (=3.14.....) I'll give you a Nobel Prize personally! > >But I still do not believe him. > >Also, is it true that the sequence of digits in e is random because the ONLY way to get to the >p'th digit is to calculate the p-1'st digits? > Exactly! This is called recursive definition. To get the p-th set in the sequence you need to find p-1 first... >Also, is it the correct definition of a real number: > >``A real number is the class of numbers which can represent the length of >an arbitrary line.'' Well, that is not entirely true... The length of any arbitrary line can be any number, rational, natural, etc. Real numbers are the numbers that defy all other categorization (they are not rational, irrational, natural, etc.) They are complex and despite any instinctual perception, there are a lot of them! I don't know if these maed a lot of sense but all of these questions are answered in a good Elementary Real Analysis book. > > >I AM REAL DESPERATE FOR YOUR ASS ISTANCE. Sincerely, Gabe -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 4.5 iQEVAgUBMuJmYqr5aWnB1HshAQH2bwf+O/C0vRosJAclWr9OhYufFtSYnGohHjnA hwbcb6wftvrRES4HyMu9GfCYZanZ37TI4erblofctiJh7RVgFmvJxK0VDbaSth8J Ns0u/c86dw6qSeE8XG+1LBQ9hH8eXJ4Mojnohea4L9IesjfqugZwh6+g/1BXngco wpOnhixj9Xxoh8Bu/N01rNtaCOcDQPziCYWg3iKTIJ0ySP0zZBPoamVq7OYAhXzY +sn5lABFZ81/VQf0Y/7drWnZhBDpJXq7xtbo4NZGkDbQ6ifNaH9AlF9+9vLJn6AS osG5SsS2TmeJLmpi3BxC0k1cNHGHI7+DGazRVMrtCZFFMeeh5RtRgQ== =ZAZJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------- | Gabor K. Tozser | 1500 St. Olaf Ave. | | St. Olaf College | Northfield, MN 55057 | ---------------------------------------------------

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Wow.
by amanda＠intercon.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Well, in the week or two since resubscribing to Cypherpunks, I've seen a trickle of postings about cryptography, security, and privacy, and a flood of insults, harangues, fighting words, and so on. Some of this reads more like a script from a Jerry Falwell TV spot than anything I recognize as "Cypherpunk" traffic. I don't care who's offended whom. I'm not interested in participating in a forum where the supposed topic is submerged underneath a lot of adolescent alpha primate chest-beating. I'm off to look for a mailing list where people are ACTUALLY DISCUSSING CRYPTOGRAPHY AND IMPLEMENTING CRYPTOSYSTEMS. This list may still be called "cypherpunks", but it doesn't have much cypherpunk left in it, as far as I can tell. Disgusted, Amanda Walker Senior Software Engineer InterCon Systems Corporation

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Re: I beg you, PLEASE prove that 0.123456789101112131415 is IRRATIONAL (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi, Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 12:20:45 -0600 > From: Sir Robin of Locksley <tozser(a)stolaf.edu> > >Is it possible to prove that number 0.1234567891011121314151617181920... > >iz irrational? > > Most definately. All you need to do is prove that the set of this number is > uncountable, ergo is irrational. If you have friend who have done math in real > analysis they can explain more. irrational means 'not expressible as the ratio of two integers', this does not imply uncountable. Whether 0.12345678910111213... is irrational or not depends on how we choose to define a rational number where the denominator and numerator are both approaching infinity and how quickly those approaches occur. [ What is your definition of infinity/infinity ?] As alluded to before, 0.12345678910111213 = 12345678910111213.... / n (where n = infinity) 0.123456789101112... is certainly countable because by the definition of countable it must be 1-to-1 with the counting numbers (ie non-negative integers), which this one clearly is since it contains each positive non-zero integer (ie the set of numbers required to produce the number are clearly less, 1 less to be exact, than the counting numbers). > If you show me an algorythm that calculates the real number TT (=3.14.....) > I'll give you a Nobel Prize personally! c=2pi*r so, pi = c/2r You have a algorithm (ie recipe) for determining pi to whatever degree of precision you are willing to go to. If you insist on using a digital computer (whose domain of operation is limited to rationals by defintion) then you are doomed to fail. However, move to analog computers (eg a compass) and it can be quite easy to calculate, though not easy to plug into an equation. > Well, that is not entirely true... The length of any arbitrary line can be any > number, rational, natural, etc. Real numbers are the numbers that defy all > other categorization (they are not rational, irrational, natural, etc.) They > are complex and despite any instinctual perception, there are a lot of them! Complex numbers are not a member of the Reals, rather the Reals are a sub-set of the Complex. [ I recognize this is not what you meant but, "The slovenliness of our language makes it easier to have foolish thoughts." George Orwell ] VNR Concise Encyclopedia of Mathematics, 15th ed. ISBN 0-442-22646-2 pp. 74 "If every segment is to have a numerical measure as its length, then a new domain of numbers is needed, an extension to the domain of rational numbers. This new domain can no longer be constructed, as in the previous case, by number pairs. But hints for its construction are provided by a theoretical analysis of the measuring process for segments." A mathematicaly rigorous defintion of the class of numbers called 'Real' is that which equates the members of that set to the possible lengths of an arbitrary line segment. Jim Choate CyberTects ravage(a)ssz.com

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Re: Enough is Never Enough -- pro-CDA alliances, from TNNN
by Dale Thorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dale wrote: > > This Donna Rice-Hughes couldn't possibly be the Donna Rice who sat on > > Gary Hart's lap for the famous picture, could she? > But of course... she was emotionally traumatized by the who experience > (or some such line) and is now 'reformed'. The mind boggles. I've gotten several confirmations on this, and no negatives, so.... What I remember is that Hart and Schweiker were on one of the intel committees in the early 1970's, working more-or-less side by side with Frank Church et al, uncovering the real dirty laundry of the CIA and its infiltration of nearly every college and important business and media in the USA. Hart's minor spillage to the press must have pissed someone off, so they got the famous picture with Rice in all the papers, and Hart's presidential bid went right down the toilet. Now this same girl is on the righteous team, like Chuckie Colson? Yeah, I believe it. My you-know-what is starting to pucker up.

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