December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Off topic litter on Cyperpunks
by Lurker 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

What has happened to cypherpunks? I joined this mailing list more recently than many others who recieve it, but most reacently it has gone downhill. The descriptions I have read (and I have read many) all state that this list is deadicated to the discussion of cryptography issues. Where the hell is the discussion about cryptography? Three fourths of the messages I have been recieving are off topic (Ebonics and "Slaughter"). If I wanted to read about current events and holocost I would have joined groups that were specified for discussion of those.

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RE: some clarification of jurisdiction in Berstein (long)
by blanc 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: attila The DOJ is not interested in either justice or the Bill of Rights. Federal attorneys are striving for high conviction rates, like Vietnam body counts --and are enforcing the policies of the administration, not the courts, the constitution, or the people. ........................................................... (I just read this message, even though Attila posted it this past Thursday.) I wanted to comment that it was a quite interesting post, because it deals with elements of courts and law which really baffle me - all the talk about which District Court stated this, and whether this will apply only in Northern California, and whether Judge Patel's ruling will be observed elsewhere or appealed to a higher court - I think to myself, sheesh, this is like being in a maze and trying to find the way out: If you go through this corridor, will you be on the straight path out, or is there perhaps a dead end around to the left of that edge up ahead, so maybe you should instead try going around that wall on the right? And how do you know how close you are to the exit? How do you know you aren't on a circuitous path going around & around, going nowhere? There are so many detailed decisions, so many objections, such meticulous, scrupulous study of every word & potential meaning therein, and all the judicious players appear so knowledgeable of what is or could not be valid, what is or could not be moral and therefore supportable, of which decision made by which judge on what year relating to what number on a document this all relates back to. It appears that there is a reason for the extreme concern for propriety and the extreme complexity in the assessment of it in a courtroom, in courtroom after level of courtroom. It appears that judges and lawyers and courts are deeply concerned about life proceeding in a moral way, and that they would play the role of catching it from degrading into corruption, affecting the quality of life in the US. Yet if the individual whose actions are in questions goes to jail, the atmosphere of intelligence or mental ability suddenly disappears, the delicacy towards morality and quality of behavior cuts off and there is no similar meticulous examination the institution wherein they are incarcerated, to continue ensuring that all processes there are aligned in the direction of goodness. Therefore what was it all for? If the quality of Truth and Morality is being saved from corruption by these Judges of Law, then why is one person's decision valid only in North California, but not as soon as one travels south (what's the boundary line for "North" California)? Or why does it "hold" in that state, but not anywhere else on the continent? I always think in the same terms used in the Constitution - about human nature and other such categories of thought. Not about where that human nature happens to be residing at any particular time, but what it is per se, and what is or is not right for it per se, regardless of whether it is in North or South Rhode Island. In terms of governmental roles, I'm aghast that they relate their judgements back to each other rather than back to principles. Because this means that, in the end, we are subordinate to the reasoning of some appointed individual, and subject to the lucidity of their mind at the particular moment that we come to their attention, as during a dispute regarding the publication of source code. We could never refer back to valid principles of thought or the Laws of Nature in determing what is right or what not to do, because overriding those considerations would be the calculations of some public overseer. I realize that not all lawyers & judges are this way, but it is still very unsettling to realize just how superficial is the 'honor' which accrues to them. Thanks for the elaboration on this, Attila. .. Blanc

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Re: Credentials without Identity--Race Bits
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 10:50 PM 12/20/96 -0800, Bill Stewart wrote: >At least they weren't doing most of this paranoia when I visited my >sister earlier this summer, bringing a couple pounds of Silly Putty >in my luggage as presents for her kids, packed near the alarm clock.... ># Thanks; Bill For years, Radio Shack has sold an indoor/outdoor thermometer with max/min temperature function. Going on a long trip and carrying a 5-pound loaf of cheese? Stick the outdoor thermo pickup in the cheese before you depart, to ensure that it wasn't exposed to damaging temperature excursions! I'm sure this looks wonderful on an X-ray. Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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Re: Ebonics
by Mark Rosen 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> Just saying someone has a Southern "accent" is prejudicial and ignorant. > It's true that anyone, Southern or otherwise, can slur words so they're > not clear, but on averages, Southerners who speak clearly with their > native inflections and pronunciations are easier to understand than your > typical Yankees, whose speech is generally thin, nasal and rather pinched- > sounding. Yeah. But I can't understand people with Southern Accents therefore I won't hire them. > People talked about hate in the South in the 1960's. What a crock. > Apartheid, sure, no doubt about that. But hate, well, I grew up in > the North and I lived for a few years in the deep South, and the people > in the South don't hate like the Yankees do, on average. Wow. You must read completely different history books than the rest of the world. > If you want to see how hate works, look how the big-media organizations > have descended on Southern radio and TV and have been telling them that > they speak wrongly, and that Southern "accents" are something to be > ashamed of. Damn the liberal media! (That was a sarcastic statement - do you know how right-wing that sounds).

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No Subject
by j＠gangsta.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Punks, Nawh nigga, yous don't want dem udder foo's to be able to read jo mail! What da hail?! Don'chew see it now? Dis's anutha foam of kryptografee! Da reason we be doin' dis shit is dat so dem basta'ds out dere who be wantin' in on ours konversayshun can't be gettin' in. See?! Now what foo' ass cracka muthafucka can be readin' dis shit at a decent clip? Shit! Can't none of 'em! De only problem is dat it be takin' too long to put in dees apo-straphees. If we gots rids ofs dems, dens we'ds haves a much easia' time of doin' dis shit. Why don't one you cleva' boyz come up wit some kinda editor dat crossreferences (oops, too many syllables) wit dat phat ass ebonics dikshunary at EBONIC.ORG? Den jus' give da dikshunary only to dose people who you be wantin' to read jo shit. Yeomsayn'? Hilary Clinton can't be readin' dis shit! Can't nobody else ova dere in D.C. Us niggas here in Compton been down wit dis phat ass kryptografee fo' a long ass time. How do you tink dat us gangstas is all still around? We be talkin' shit ev'y night on da co'na, but can't none da fuzz be translatin' so we's frees tos dos whateva' we's wantin's tos dos. Yo, jus' lemme quote my phat ass nigga dogg Method Man befo' I go: "I'm slammin' niggas like Shaqueel, dis shit is real, When it's time to eat a meal, I rob and steal, Cuz mom ain't givin' me shit, So for da bread an' butta I leave niggas in da gutta, Wherde 'the mutha, I'm dangerous, Crazia' den a bag o' fuckin' angel dust, When I bus' my gat, muthafuckas take dirt naps, I'm all dat, wit a dime sack and a payback!" Dag! Dat shit's phat, dogg. ************************************************************************** # Gangsta J # "Dead bodies pile up, an' it's plain to see, # # j(a)hardcore.gangsta.com # it's because o' me. I'm the girl killa, the # # Brownsville ghetto # throat slitta, the cunt rippa" - J # **************************************************************************

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Re: Security hole in premail
by Mixmaster 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Fri, 20 Dec 1996, Mixmaster wrote: > *** premail.orig Fri Dec 20 18:46:01 1996 > --- premail Fri Dec 20 18:55:54 1996 > *************** > *** 3574,3579 **** > --- 3574,3582 ---- > } > for ($triesleft = 2; !$done && $triesleft; $triesleft--) { > $pass = &getpass ($x); > + if(!-O $ps) { > + &error ("Secrets file exists and is owned by another user\n"); > + } > $status = &decrypt_secrets ($ps_pgp, $ps, $pass); > if (!-s $ps) { unlink $ps; } > $done = (!$status && -e $ps); That patch doesn't work. It will always return an error. I have tested the following patch and it does work as intended: *** premail.orig Wed Oct 30 22:25:10 1996 --- premail Sat Dec 21 15:45:41 1996 *************** *** 3631,3636 **** --- 3631,3639 ---- $invoc .= ' > '.$ps; $invoc .= ' 2> '.$errfile; &pdv ("Invoking PGP as $invoc\n"); + if(-e $ps) { + &error ("Premail secrets file already exists\n"); + } $status = &open_pgp ($invoc, $pass, ''); $err = &read_and_delete ($errfile); &pdv ($err); Sorry about the previous mistake.

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Re: Ebonics
by Omegaman 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Sat, 21 Dec 1996, Mark Rosen wrote: > No. Speaking in Ebonics is the same as speaking with an accent. You can't > control their expression; you learned to speak with a Southern accent as a > child, while other people learned to speak with an Ebonic accent (?). By > condoning speaking in a Southern accent, you condone speaking in Ebonics. Whatever rational basis your arguments may have had were eradicated by the ludicrous logical conclusion drawn above. > I can't understand thick Southern accents. No matter how smart you are, > I'm not going to hire you because I can't understand you. How do you feel? Oh so sad. Let me make this clear, an accent is far different from grammatically incorrect speech. I can speak with grammatic perfection and a drawl so heavy it'll make your eyeballs hurt. (Of course, being from New Orleans, my normal accent is more like brooklyn than Nashville -- four years in Mississippi changed all that) > Replace the word Ebonics with "Southern accent" and "black English" with > "Southern twang" and you'll see how hypocritical you are. Also, why do you > make an exception for foriegn accents? They're just as difficult to > understand. And can still be spoken with proper grammar. I make an exception for foreign accents because we are dealing a completely separate language. Speakers of ebonics are certainly not bilingual in this sense (and neither am I). I don't see hypocrisy at all. I do see an apologist, pampering, paternal point of view, however. And we southern folk jes' don't abide that sorta thang. > Language is completely different from intellect. You can't control whether > you were taught, Ebonics, a Southern accent, or "normal" English. I wasn't "taught" a Southern accent. I absorbed it in daily conversation. I certainly wasn't taught a Southern dialect. I was taught the English language. I'll say it again...the notion that Ebonics exists as a separate language -- not derived as slang from standard English -- is absurd. me _______________________________________________________________ Omegaman <mailto:omega@bigeasy.com> PGP Key fingerprint = 6D 31 C3 00 77 8C D1 C2 59 0A 01 E3 AF 81 94 63 Send e-mail with "get key" in the "Subject:" field to get a copy of my public key _______________________________________________________________

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Re: Ebonics
by drose＠AZStarNet.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Matthew J. Miszewski writes: >Why is it that personal freedom, sometimes expressed by choice of dialect >or language, seemingly has such arbitrary limits? Many on the list >complain that they are subject to too many rules, and yet, seem to chime in >on multi-linugual issues in this way. Mr. Miszewski: As an attorney, you may be acquainted with the concept of "reasonableness." I can certainly express my personal freedom by passing wind at home (subject only to the possibly vociferous objections of my family). Were I to fart in church or in a board meeting, that would be a horse of a different color, nicht wahr?

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Re: Ebonics
by Matthew J. Miszewski 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- At 08:01 PM 12/20/96 -0800, Timothy C. May wrote: >Yeah, Matt, in a free society I wouldn't have to "speak Ebonics." > Are you talking about the School Board requirements? Are you still in High School, Tim? ;-) I have never heard you speak of children, so you might have a valid complaint if you have them in public schools (although home schooling is still an option). [Tim's Critique of currently failing attempts at social justice elided] I realize you dont agree with the tactics of some black leaders in this country, but I dont understand why you have this need to cloak your arguments in such antagonizing language. You, of course, are free to do so, I just find it counter-productive albeit sometimes humourous. Matt -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMrx3kbpijqL8wiT1AQE8MgP/dQIEwHGQJK68+dXjTD1Tfpc+ll/cRw59 h8bidDczb0eTqcE9SliY+3D+0eUx4OcYOR3HsKcEQjFl5vgVpUeqaywpnh9clHBU QOLLqCpGw1plNzqjzZNc7e0SsCvVudpv93jDJdPInF/MHELxflhAJ32DRfIyt90Q ry0EvNMfAnc= =00J2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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[Fwd: To unsbscribe, unscrivive, or ubsribibe]
by Carl Johnson 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-- Reply to:toto@sk.sympatico.ca "There's only one two." To: "Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM" <dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com> Subject: To unsbscribe, unscrivive, or ubsribibe From: Carl Johnson <toto(a)sk.sympatico.ca> Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 06:18:30 -0800 Organization: TOTO Enterprises References: <2BJaZD31w165w(a)bwalk.dm.com> ABB Electrical Engineering <abbee(a)ritsec1.com.eg> writes: > Can anyone tell me please how to unsbscribe and not to receive such mail. To unsbscibe, unscrivive, or ubsribibe, just send eMail to fuck(a)yourself.up. He will be happy to send you an executable program that will ensure that you will no longer get any mail from this conference. Glad I could be of assistance. -- Reply to:toto@sk.sympatico.ca "There's only one two."

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