December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Nazis on the Net
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

E. ALLEN SMITH writes: | (one reason for Hiroshima and Nagasaki being right | was the Japanese alliance with Germany) Was Dresden also right? (more died than at Hiroshima) The firebombing of Tokyo? (10% died in one raid). Stalins execution of his own people? Look at facts, not propoganda, before coming to such conclusions. The conventions of war (namely the aim of keeping civilians out of it, along with good treatment of prisoners) evolved over many centuries, but then come the Brits and the Yanks to destroy it all with their indiscriminate bombing of civilians, using the "they can stop the torture simply by surrendering," and "those bombs saved countless [American/British] lives!" excuses, and directing attention away from their own attrocities by spreading propoganda such as soap made from Jews. Then to direct attention away from themselves even further, the victors judge the defeated at Nuremburg for "war crimes," when the accusors themselves were guilty of terror bombing, the worst war crime of them all. | and the Holocaust (people who claim | it didn't happen are calling my paternal grandfather a liar). Does anybody really claim it did not happen? I doubt it. I assert that those who express doubt over details of the current story (such as the numbers that died in the camps, the existence of gas chambers, or whether Hitler gave an order to systematically kill Jews) are referred to by the media as saying that the Holocaust didn't happen, but that is *not* what they are saying. With regard to your grandfather being liar, that is hard to say without knowing precisly he has said, but if he states that, eg, Dachau was a terrible place, riddled with disease and starvation and terrible conditions, and hundreds of thousands of people died, then who would disagree with him? If on the other hand he asserts that he saw gassed Jews at Dachau, then he is mistaken (although not necessarally a liar.) --- The Nuremberg Trials...had been popular throughout the world and particularly in the United States. Equally popular was the sentence already announced by the high tribunal: death. But what kind of trial was this? ...The Constitution was not a collection of loosely given political promises subject to broad interpretation. It was not a list of pleasing platitudes to be set lightly aside when expediency required it. It was the foundation of the American system of law and justice and [Robert Taft] was repelled by the picture of his country discarding those Constitutional precepts in order to punish a vanquished enemy. U.S. President, John F. Kennedy

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Cashless Society and the Coming Collapse
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

http://www.jcave.com/~whedonr/news2.htm The Cashless Society The October 31 issue of Information Week featured an article on the October 13 acquisition of Intuit Inc. by Microsoft Corporation for 1.5 billion dollars. Their vision is to create a world where all financial transaction are performed electronically. "Microsoft's vision of the future is clearly a world in which the majority of consumer and business transactions will take place online". Other companies are also rushing to enter the electronic transaction market place. Soon, there will simply be no need for cash, everything will be done on line. Automatic debits and credits from your bank and credit accounts will be performed in a few milliseconds. You will be able to purchase nearly anything in the world from your home via the electronic transaction. (Since the original writing of this article, Microsoft did not receive approval to make this merger with Intuit. However, the vision of Microsoft stays the same). America is already now seeing a widespread use of the "intelligent" smart cards. These cards are being used for telecommunications, medical information purchases, identification, and more. Western Union now offers a smartcard that you can purchase to make long distance telephone calls. The military has been issuing smartcards for some time now to all of it's personnel. California is issuing smartcards to all recipients of state benefits, including Social Security and welfare benefits. The federal government is considering plans to implement a smartcard for it's 3.1 million members for payroll purposes. This proliferation of smartcards has not been without it's perceived benefits. However, this new technology has created another problem, namely security. The security offered by the smartcard is not sufficient. Fraud, theft and abuse of smartcard technology has prompted for many officials to call for a more secure and personal means of transactions. A single card, useable anywhere in the world is being considered. But even this presents problems with the issue of security and privacy. An improvement on smartcard technology is now being formulated. For several years, microchips have been tested in animals to learn their effects, efficiencies and drawbacks. This technology is now perfected for use in humans. Instead of carrying several different types of smartcards, credit cards and identification, we are soon to be offered a single implanted chip that can contain information about us that anybody ever needs to know. Not until the last few years, has technology advance to the point where implantation of a microchip was possible within human flesh. This is a fulfillment of prophecy, for the Bible says "And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their forehead" (Rev. 13:16). Only very recently has technology made it possible to make such a mark in human flesh. With the widespread usage of computers and databases, tracking individuals and every financial transaction has now become a reality. These tiny chips are already being produced by the millions and millions today for a variety of electronic devices, including smartcards. We are on the verge of having these chips implanted in every human being. Are you prepared to take your mark? The Coming Collapse Another deceptive lie being propagated by the government and the media is our economy. The rate of unemployed workers in this country is being reported to us at only 3%. However, many private sources of information have this number much higher, closer to 9-10%. Some goes so far as to say unemployement is really 20%! Our government cannot afford the bad publicity of a recession. Statistics prove that nearly every major corporation has been downsizing staff by the thousands and thousands. Nearly 1 million positions have been abolished since the first of the year. Yet in the face of all this, our government continues to tell us that our economy is booming. Our federal deficit is also much higher then is being commonly reported. Deficit spending under President Clinton is at an all time high. Simply put, our nation cannot afford to continue on it's present course of overspending. In a report presented to President Reagan, a commission of 31 Congressmen stated that the United States would experience a financial collapse by the year 2012. Some forecasted that this coming collapse would happen by the year 2005. Consumer debt in America is the highest consumer debt in the history of the world, bar none. Many Americans live off of credit cards, always getting deeper and deeper into debt. The media portrays a fictitious world where we can "afford" anything. And if we don't want to "buy, buy, buy", then we are somehow dysfunctional or inadequate. The average American family has to work two jobs just to make ends meet. While our purchasing power continues to decline for every dollar we earn, there's always something new to buy. We are beset by self centeredness, self grandizement and narcissistic "needs". In a never ending downward spiral, we chase the holy grail of material wealth, urged on by the prophets of the press. Financial ruin, broken families, despair, hopelessness and stress related disease are often the end results. Thousands turn to alternate realities, including drugs, alcohol, adulterous relationships and other means of "release" from these financial pressures. America has been teetering on the brink of a financial disaster, unparalleled in human history. Efforts to avoid this collapse include the establishment of a new monetary system, including the issuing of new money. Currently, entire caravans of this newly minted money are being distributed around the country. A national and international recall of $100 dollar bills was proposed by Senators Patrick Leahy and John Kerry. This recall may quite possibly trigger the greatest financial collapse the world has ever seen. This financial collapse could be triggered overnight when mass panic, fear and distrust in the new monetary system becomes widespread.

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Re: arbiter/escrow agent for hire
by E. ALLEN SMITH 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: IN%"bryce(a)digicash.com" 24-APR-1996 10:05:20.14 >1. Acceptable digital signature upon the "bet statement" >from each bettor. (Note that PGP signatures from PGP key >pairs which are not connected to me via the Web of Trust, or >which are not verifiable by me via an out-of-band >connection, are not acceptable digital signatures. This is >because of the MITM attack problem, not because I need True >Names to be connected to the signatures.) IIRC, currently Black Unicorn doesn't have any signatures on his public key of others. Therefore, this requirement, while understandable, could cause a bit of a difficulty in the current situation. >3. Amount of the bet from each bettor. This chunk of money >will be known as the "ante". Note that depending upon the >details of the "bet statement", each bettor may submit a >different ante. (Yes, up front. Yes, I get antes from both >bettors. Yes, I keep them while the bet is being settled. >Why do you think my fee is so low?) Chuckle. -Allen

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Re: You have been deleted
by attila 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

To: Black Unicorn <unicorn(a)schloss.li> From: attila <attila(a)primenet.com> Reply-To: attila <attila(a)primenet.com> Subject: Re: "You have been deleted" Addressed to: Black Unicorn <unicorn(a)schloss.li> Tim May <tcmay(a)got.net> ** Reply to note from Black Unicorn <unicorn(a)schloss.li> 04/24/96 03:01am -0400 = On Tue, 23 Apr 1996, Timothy C. May wrote: = = > its route and landed on my hill, abducting me for medical experiments I am = > too embarrassed to describe (except that Chelsea was also involved). I am = > back now, albeit subtly changed (for the better). = = That a medical experiment including Chelsea could improve a man is beyond = the bounds of reason. = = Mr. May, are you making this up? = attila sez: Not necessarily. it may be speculation or wishful thinking on the part of Chelsea, or even Bubba and Hillary. -- Obscenity is a crutch for inarticulate motherfuckers. Fuck the CDA! cc: Tim May <tcmay(a)got.net> Cypherpunks <cypherpunks(a)toad.com>

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arbiter/escrow agent for hire
by bryce＠digicash.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- I hereby offer to be arbiter and escrow agent for cypherpunks bet settlements. My conditions: 1. I won't deal in old-fashioned currencies. Mark Twain U.S. Dollar ecash or Merita Bank of Finland Finnish Mark ecash or First Digital Bank cyberbuck ecash only, please. 2. I don't handle bets larger than USD300.00, or FIM1500.00, or cyb300,000.00. These are just my arbitrary comfort limits. (It's also large enough to cover the kinds of things that go on here, IMESHO.) 3. My fee per bet is USD5.00 or FIM50.00, or cyb7000.00. This is for "simple", winner-take-all bets. For other arrangements, make me an offer. 4. I have to have an explicit description of how the bet will be settled which is acceptable to me. This will be known as the "bet description". a. It has a dearth of loopholes and ambiguities, both with regard to the subject of contention and with regard to the settling procedure, including settling agents and settling schedule. b. It doesn't require me to be the "settling agent" who does the research or performs the experiment or whatever. Before I am committed to the job I will require 3 items to be submitted to me: 1. Acceptable digital signature upon the "bet statement" from each bettor. (Note that PGP signatures from PGP key pairs which are not connected to me via the Web of Trust, or which are not verifiable by me via an out-of-band connection, are not acceptable digital signatures. This is because of the MITM attack problem, not because I need True Names to be connected to the signatures.) 2. My fee. (I don't care who pays it-- One or both bettors or spectators.) 3. Amount of the bet from each bettor. This chunk of money will be known as the "ante". Note that depending upon the details of the "bet statement", each bettor may submit a different ante. (Yes, up front. Yes, I get antes from both bettors. Yes, I keep them while the bet is being settled. Why do you think my fee is so low?) Final Notes: 1. I reserve the right to reject any bet for any reason. Although my fee is non-refundable, the antes are refundable in this case. If I exercise this right after the antes have been delivered, I will return them to their respective owners. 2. The bettors may _not_ unilaterally or unconditionally reserve the right to cancel the bet after having signed the bet statement and submitted their antes. Provisions for cancelling the bet after that point, if desired, should be written into the bet statement. 3. I don't do currency exchange. If your betting partner submits his ante in Finnish Marks and you win then you are getting Finnish Marks. If you submit an ante in cyberbucks and then I cancel the bet, you are getting cyberbucks refunded to you. Please contact me via e-mail (PGP preferred) if you wish to engage my services. Cordially, Bryce, Escrow and Arbitration Agent Serving the cypherpunks Mailing List Since 1996. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2i Comment: Auto-signed under Unix with 'BAP' Easy-PGP v1.1b2 iQB1AwUBMX4VUkjbHy8sKZitAQGOQwMAzsITvGj54RvUnwr0DWXbtbiQeMRIOZMv igN2qUVArkP8TsC8/KkMaSlxD1jEVdGcDj+UGegLIO8Jfq62NCkz41LSUSNi1nWY 0/pNUikhSAFZ2DAh6u42K45HmhPAypeC =eS7Z -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: PEP Announcement (fwd)
by rah＠shipwright.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hey, Amos! Talk to me about using your spiffy chain-remailing script button with the new Eudora... It asks me for a directory in an open box now, and urps... Cheers, Bob ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "If they could 'just pass a few more laws', we would all be criminals." --Vinnie Moscaritolo The e$ Home Page: http://thumper.vmeng.com/pub/rah/

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Kill Files
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 2:04 PM 4/24/96, s1113645(a)tesla.cc.uottawa.ca wrote: >One must note that capital punishment is an excellent means of >unsuvscription. > > >(Ps. Just joking, Jason or whoever you are.) On a serious note, I hereby predict that the term "kill file" will soon be picked up by the clueless media and/or Congress as a sign that the Internet is dangerous. (I'm sure it already has been used as a negative, but I'm predicting a more visible focus on this term, however briefly. To the average American, it conjures up images closely related to Jim Bell's ideas!) I had one of our "unsubscrive" newbies asking me what I meant by "putting him in my kill file," and saying he was planning to let his site manager know about "your threat." --Tim Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Re: Nazis on the Net
by E. ALLEN SMITH 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: IN%"tallpaul(a)pipeline.com" 24-APR-1996 00:24:46.89 >> It would >>have been better if the atomic bomb had been ready in time to use against >>Germany and Stalinist Russia. >It was ready "in time" to use against "Stalinist Russia" (which, BTW, was >Stalinist "Soviet Union,"). It was not ready to use against the USSR/Russia (as should probably be evident from current nationalist movements in the non-Russian portions of the USSR, Russia tended to dominate that union) before the USSR was an ally of the United States. (I refer you to the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact between the USSR and Nazi Germany.) After the war, they were still tied by various agreements; by the time that it became obvious that Russia had broken those agreements, it had nuclear weapons and an attack would have been suicidal. -Allen

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Re: [NOISE] Re: Nazis on the Net
by E. ALLEN SMITH 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: IN%"bryce(a)digicash.com" 24-APR-1996 06:43:13.96 >For what it's worth, Webster's defines: >rac.ism \'ra--.siz-*m\ \-s*st\ n 1: a belief that race is > the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and > that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of > a particular race 2: RACIALISM - rac.ist n [...] >Thus no two of "racists", "separatists" and "race-haters" >would be identical sets of people. ? >But with a high degree of overlap, I'd warrant. Fully agreed. I don't dispute that most people calling themselves separatists are racists; it's just that I'd prefer not to call someone a racist who isn't one.... just as I'd prefer not to call a liberal a Communist unless they are one. (Communist referring to the whole dictatorship of the proletariat business, not just state socialism - the former, which is not classical Marxism, is where the abuses of rights other than private property come in). >This means that Abraham Lincoln was a racist, by the way. Abraham Lincoln is one reason I _don't_ use the above definition; by mine, he'd be a separatist (wanted to move Blacks to Liberia, if I recall correctly). I trust that everyone involved in this discussion (with the exception of the neo-Nazi) would agree that Abraham Lincoln was better than those in the South who wanted to keep blacks enslaved? >(That definition isn't too good, though. "_The_ primary >determinant"? I would have to classify as racist those who >believe that race is _a_ primary determinant of those >qualities.) The definition is bad enough that I checked a concise OED for comparison; see the results and my commentary below. >Sorry to be off-topic, but if a thing is going to be >discussed I might as well try to add signal. (The "[NOISE]" >tag that I left in the subject line doesn't indicate noise, >but off-topicness.) Perhaps we could just drop the >"Cc: cypherpunks" part and continue this discussion? Thank you. The dropping of the cc:cypherpunks part would be rather inconvenient. This phenomenon is one reason that I'd like to see a list server capable of setting up mini-lists on demand, easily. >Concise Oxford Dictionary, 8th Ed., Copyright 1991 Oxford Univ. Press >/racism/ <<"reIsIz(@)m>> n. >1. > a. a belief in the superiority of a particular race; prejudice based on > this. > b. antagonism towards other races, esp. as a result of this. >2. the theory that human abilities etc. are determined by race. This has some differences from the Webster definition, specifically the inclusion of prejudice as a definer. The latter definition is silly. It is scientifically well-proven that different races have different physical attributes - blacks tend to have higher blood pressures, for instance. Is this definition saying that believing what is known is racism? Of course, with this definition I can see why Herrnstein and Murray keep being called racists. (Incidentally, I don't believe they are correct regarding the genetic component of intelligence as having a racial correlation - the existing (and unfortunate) environmental differences are a perfectly adequate explanation. Unfortunately, we can't tell the existence or non-existence of such differences until the genes affecting intelligence are significantly better understood; until then, the most pragmatic assumption is the lack of any such difference, given the lack of any obvious evolutionary cause for it. In other words, I call _The Bell Curve_ mistaken in its conclusions on race - not racist. Incindentally, I also believe that such differences are environmental for the emotional reason that I would be very uncomfortable believing otherwise. I don't think this is biasing my evaluation of the science, however.) Both of these definitions involve "superior" and "superiority"; I thus also looked this up. >/superior/ <<su:"pI@rI@(r)>>, <<sju:->>, <<sU->> adj. & n. >adj. >1. in a higher position; of higher rank ("a superior officer"; "a superior > court"). >2. > a. above the average in quality etc. ("made of superior leather"). > b. having or showing a high opinion of oneself; supercilious ("had a > superior air"). >3. (often foll. by "to") > a. better or greater in some respect ("superior to its rivals in speed"). > b. above yielding, making concessions, paying attention, etc. ("is > superior to bribery"; "superior to temptation"). I don't think anyone would disagree that blacks are currently (and unfortunately) in a lower position in US society overall. Moreover, the 2nd and 3rd part of the definition make "racism" as defined above a rather over-inclusive term. For instance, it would call any scientist who does a study and finds lower IQs among members of some race a racist. Such differences are well-known to exist, and (as I state above) are probably environmental in origin. In other words, unless one makes the "prejudice" and/or "antagonism" parts mandatory (in which case it would be narrower than my definition of racist, which essentially hinges on definite prejudice existing), the Webster definition of racism is over-inclusive by any reasonable standard. -Allen

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Re: [NOISE] Re: Nazis on the Net
by E. ALLEN SMITH 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: Rich Graves <llurch(a)networking.stanford.edu> >E. Allen Smith actually might have written: >>I've seen various quotes from Randy Weaver in various publications, >>including Time and other non-right-wing ones. None of them indicated him >>as an actual neo-Nazi or racist >BWAHAHAHA!!! I assume that you are thinking I'm incorrect? Incidentally, I classify a racist as someone who says "this race is evil and should be killed/enslaved/tortured/whatever." Someone who says that different races shouldn't live together is a separatist; it's only when they start having seperate but equal being anything but equal (e.g., apartheid) that it crosses the line into racism. Thus, I don't regard Charles Murray or Richard Herrnstein as racist, for instance. >Here's a URL for a *highly sympathetic* piece on Weaver that complains >that, "I will be happier when the press stops demonizing Weaver -- in >subtle and not so subtle ways -- in news stories and editorials. He is >referred to so consistently as "White Separatist Randall Weaver" that one >would be forgiven for assuming that his parents gave him the first name >"White," while "Separatist" was some old family name handed down from his >maternal aunt": >http://www.omnet.com/What-I-Think/col.09-01-95B.html Yes, it doesn't give any information to call him a racist... it gives information to call him a separatist. I don't support either, but I call the former more evil than the latter. If you thought I had claimed that Weaver wasn't a separatist, you've misread me. >Here are some *highly sympathetic* URLs that mention that Weaver was a >white separatist/Aryan Nations wacko: >http://www.scimitar.com/revolution/by_topic/firearms/enforce/rubyridge/setu… >http://eagle.tamu.edu/~carlp/Liberty/Weaver.Case.AR.html They both, yes, state that he was a white separatist. They don't state that he was an Aryan Nations member... just that the FBI was trying to use him to infiltrate the Aryan Nations. One doesn't have to be a member of something before recruitment by an undercover (or intelligence) operation to be useful for infiltrating it - you just have to be someone that that organization would accept. As a known white separatist, Weaver becoming an out-and-out racist would be more believable than, say, you or me becoming an out-and-out racist. Often, those who are already members of such an organization will be more resistant to turning - more emotional committment, more watchfullness for attempts to frame/entrap, etcetera. >A slightly more balanced piece from the New York Times: >http://eagle.tamu.edu/~carlp/Liberty/Weaver.Case.NYT.html Which, again, doesn't give any evidence that he was an actual racist, as opposed to a white separatist. >FWIW, the Anti-Defamation League, which I am *well aware* has said sily >things about militias and skinheads in the past, mentions Weaver in this >report: >http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/w/weaver.randy/aryan-nations I'm glad you mentioned their unreliability; otherwise I would have had to. This one I haven't been able to check (connection refused), but I wouldn't believe them in any case if they did claim he was a racist. >I have also heard Weaver cited quite favorably on the Stormfront list, >which has repudiated Timothy McVeigh because his friend Terry Nichols has >a Filipino wife. This makes McVeigh a Race Traitor by association, of >course. Well, yes, a martyr is quite helpful to most movements. Of course he's going to be cited favorably, so long as they can't find any ideological problems such as the one you mention with regards to Terry Nichols and Timothy McVeigh. Thank you, you've done my research for me. -Allen

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