December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Returned mail: unknown mailer error 2
by Mail Delivery Subsystem 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The original message was received at Tue, 24 Oct 1995 17:44:00 +0100 from meriadoc.sophos.com [193.82.145.1] ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- |/home/ian/.mailscript (unrecoverable error) (expanded from: <ian(a)elbereth.sophos.com>) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- /home/ian/.mailscript: syntax error near unexpected token `|/' /home/ian/.mailscript: /home/ian/.mailscript: line 1: `|/usr/bin/filter -vo /home/ian/.elm/filterlog' 554 |/home/ian/.mailscript... unknown mailer error 2 ----- Original message follows ----- From: cypherpunks(a)toad.com Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 18:05:29 +0100 Apparently-To: ian(a)virusbtn.com Hello

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Re: Sun speaks out - but not to the cypherpunks
by todd＠lgt.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >In article <v02110101acaf51651ef9(a)[204.156.156.4]>, >Todd Glassey <todd(a)lgt.com> wrote: >[ lines marked > > are from fc(a)all.net (Dr. Frederick B. Cohen) ] >> Pardon the flame but I really have just about heard enough of this BS... >[...] >> >> The area where we can (must) build trust is the computing base. >> >> Traditionally, this has been the OS, but in the case of java, it is >> >> the java interpreter (such as netscape 2.0 and hotjava). The browser >> >> is now the TCB (trusted computer base) for all practical purposes... >> > >> >Read: The Java interpreter is supposed to be a TCB. >[...] >> >Who here truly believes that the implementations of Java meet the >> >requirements of a TCB? >[...] >> Dr. Fred, you seem to spend a lot of engery slamming Java and HotJava. >[ ... flame deleted ... ] > > >No, here I think Dr. Cohen's comments are right on the mark. > >The Java interpreter *is* supposed to be a trusted computing base. >Do we have any reason to believe that this trust is well-placed? > >(If you don't agree, go through the Orange Book evaluation criteria, >and pay special attention to the assurance sections...) >- --- >[This message has been signed by an auto-signing service. A valid signature >means only that it has been received at the address corresponding to the >signature and forwarded.] > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >Version: 2.6.2 >Comment: Gratis auto-signing service > >iQBFAwUBMIwG2CoZzwIn1bdtAQEpowGAgHiyk0tTQk5SO/3TR5EZRMFmUy/TjQmu >NbYIt0R/Tf0g9xWbolm5XN0alu947uJs >=UZH0 >-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Sorry abopt the above flame-war I caused. My point was almost benign in and of itself. Yes, the Java concept is sound, No, the currently available implementation has some real architectural considerations that must be addressed in order that we can build a stable and secure platform atop it. My real issue is that there is so much time spent on this list knocking the individual spokes that make up this wheel we call Electronic Commerce, that it is more and more costly to filter out the technology from the background noise. Still because of the value of that technology, I and others are forced to spend precious hours reviewing all that comes across our desks. Bluntly being an active member of several Security and Payment Mechanism working groups I view some 150+ pieces of email a day and sometimes get frustrated by the amount of noise, or the roar in the background, about what are to the largest percentage of us, meaningless dribble... Still there is the occaisional golden nugget that makes it all worth while.. Again My apologies to have stirred up this mess. I will retreat under my desktop from the mele' that seems to be unending. Todd Regards, T. S. Glassey Chief Technologist Looking Glass Technologies todd(a)lgt.com (415) 324-4318 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6 iQB1AwUBMFu5E6gNRnWhagU5AQHI+gL+Mwpcd3lAWd8FF06qcG6rnLhIYveHW71a XC7xh1T0uu8qnYX31yMp17OG28jWpKUbWec1IM9/eXOi+gInA7rKICWczV8zo9Z0 0puxjRRN7yO4KfRb3cPpk+r0p6pDg01Y =bTYb -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Crypto's Role in Evil?
by Carl Ellison 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 11:20:41 -0700 I'm late getting to my mail backlog. >From: tcmay(a)got.net (Timothy C. May) >It's clear that cops cannot protect people, only try to catch the perpetrators. I heard a particularly scary quote from Director Freeh last Sunday on NPR's Weekend Edition (I believe that was the show -- segment A-1) in which he declared "our job is to protect the people". If that were the FBI's job, then we'd have to look at it as one does to a loving parent and give it all the authority and respect a child gives a parent. - Carl +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Carl M. Ellison cme(a)acm.org http://www.clark.net/pub/cme | |PGP: E0414C79B5AF36750217BC1A57386478 & 61E2DE7FCB9D7984E9C8048BA63221A2 | | ``Officer, officer, arrest that man! He's whistling a dirty song.'' | +---------------------------------------------- Jean Ellison (aka Mother) -+

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Re: Does your software?
by pcw＠access.digex.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>My get-only server is available in source form, is 80 lines long and >thus easily understood, has been shown to meet security properties, is >now in the process of being mathematically proven to meet those >properties, and is published in a refereed journal which can be used to >confirm its contents in detail. Hence, I do provide secure distribution >through purely physical means. > Uh, proofs only go so far. There was one Cornell CS professor who was a real devotee of "proving" your programs correct. He even published one of his proofs in a "refereed" journal. Big whoop. It still had an error. Proofs can help identify flaws, but they can never rule out all flaws. That's why their name is so bogus. I wouldn't be surprised if you could prove that the Finger daemon, which is sort of like a really low-level GET-ONLY HTTP server, is also safe. In fact, your math proving ability could probably even prove the pre-Robert Morris finger daemon is safe and secure. If programmers don't think of preventing finger requests longer that 512 bytes then why should the head-in-the-clouds program provers? - Peter >-- >-> See: Info-Sec Heaven at URL http://all.net >Management Analytics - 216-686-0090 - PO Box 1480, Hudson, OH 44236 P.S. "FC" is your log in and "FC is found inscribed in the writings of the Unabomber. Coincidence?

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[NOISE] Re: Hack DigiCash: Payee Anonymity
by David E. Smith 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- ObCrypto: Slim to None, peripheral at best. At 07:55 PM 10/24/95 +0100, some annoying nym wrote: >Now all we need is to do is get some specs on how DigiCash's software works >so that we can code this. I expect that this method will become quite >popular. To withdraw DigiCash, one must come up with $250 to start, sign a >bunch of forms, etc. I suspect that most people would rather change money >in lesser amounts, probably under $50. This opens up a huge market for >Blacknet money exchangers. I would gladly pay Tim's Internet Cash Exchange >a commission to exchange $50 worth of greenbacks for Digicash instead of >dealing with Mark Twain and shelling out $250 to start.. Irrelevant point: To open an account as a consumer, not a merchant, and solely for DigiCash use, only $11 (!) is required. Although I'll agree with the bunch of forms part. Damn, I wish I understood legalese... Dave - ----- David E. Smith, "dsmith(a)midwest.net", PGP ID 0x92732139 http://www.midwest.net/scribers/dsmith/ Sorry, the full signature is on strike pending DigiCash salary negotiations -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMI1uAgwyfvCScyE5AQHvpAP+MrQ0vflUe6q7uyXa0PHlyMttf50StEdX eYsXOlN9wLWH9yF6Wkvx8kXQS9sOE7anMYEk42VvwETq3y1EduP3dYAvSW2h7EG2 X4z0wsUT1l3drcq5ieeakA1nwGmHuQdMgPNaPZ8pvIGluTGobKAvta4Ea0MHy8HY YdvbDA4w0x0= =69WP -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Weekly Type-II Remailer List
by John A. Perry 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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PGP-encrypted e-mail welcome! Packet Radio - KG5RG(a)WA4IMZ.#SETX.TX.USA.NA WWW - http://www.jpunix.com PGP 2.62 key for perry(a)jpunix.com is on the keyservers. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Processed by mkpgp, a Pine/PGP interface. iQEVAwUBMI0i8qghiWHnUu4JAQFyRgf8CRcpz+KPl84PGWpZGG5X0gdsjheBdV+f Kk3RJzj48tadeeV3AGXy1u+W+S8W+BRjAqu52TGD97i38N9CemltHYn+zU+M7tNN MY/gV7TGBqhOsCs7jOxH9XovyI59DI9rDVft6FIrHLBlSYsM73v6wApXAwEmVhXl WgPMJotkQZOmekMvo4Z2qGJMqMpB5tgzIHqOB+i/Y1w65bG+31KqYiaudr2nGxuX KV09GwGk4993eYIoZIQLCEBAyxI+j5/tymQEk7hc6veaZG4FkuBo5cp6OnFiexTD JrDE8g5Cx/JAGRa5FST9faQb8cjIUqOov8YPrcOcF7/54e+bIUmLcQ== =3CrR -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Re: Reformated: How secure....
by privsoft＠ix.netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Firstly, I would like to thank Cypherpunks members for helping me evaluate and critique my document on PrivaSoft's security. I would like to address several of the issues raised on list list. 1. Alot of question would be answered if you had a copy of PrivaSoft to look at or at least a scrambled page to examine. Both of these are available at our WEB site (http://www.privasoft.com/privasoft) this is not an advertising plug, it really helps to see the thing in action to better understand its capabilities. 2. Re: the 9 digit key. Partially why you misunderstand the strength of the 9 digit key in PrivaSoft is b/c Graphical Encryption is very different form data encryption. Graphic encryption takes an image of your document and scrambles the tiles accross the page in a pseudo-random order based both on the encryption algorithm and the key used, Each key produces a completely different scramble. Further, descrambling entails moving tiles and recognition of readable text. An edge detection machine would not be helpful with PrivaSoft, as far as I know, OCR or human interface, or the PrivaSoft descrambler( with the correct key) are the only methods that can be employed. And all three of these take considerable time. Time is a key factor here (no pun intended). the strength of an encryption relies heavily on the time it takes to bruteforce check different keys. as such, even the addition of 10 miliseconds to the process is a significant increase in security when taken on the large scale of how many keys need to be checked. 3. The key extension is useful when documents are scrambled using the same default key. This feature adds 2 digits to your key, thus, even the same exact document scrambled with the same key but a different key extension would produce a radically diofferent scramble. 4. With regard to the increased font size, this is not necessary but is helpful in that the tiles themselves would contain less recognisable features of letters. 5. As a fax security product, their is nothing comparable to PrivaSoft in ease of use, strength, verstility. I'm sure you have all recieved faxes that have come in skewed, with heavy line noise, a black line running accros the page, or any other combanaiton of fax problems. These do not effect PrivaSoft's capability to descramble the fax, PrivaSoft has several patented features that produce readable text even after moderate damage to the page. Also, if you haven't figured this out yet, PrivaSoft is the only encryption software that provides Hardcopy encryption and decryption, ie. you can print out a hardcopy of the scrambled image, and fax it, store it, even snail mail it and then on the recieving end, fax or scan it back into the pc and decrypt. 6. re: custimization: This refers to our capability, for corperate clients and the like, to produce batch operation or need specific features. Also we can increase the digits of the key if the client requires such, as in gov't agencies etc, however this is not necesary for day to day use as PrivaSoft is strong enough for most transmissions over the Net and via fax regardless of the prevalent comments by many members of this group. I do not take offence at the many slurs on our product. I fully believe that if any of those who believe that PrivaSoft is a fly-by-night or bogus product have not looked at or tried the software and therfore speak from less than a knowledgable position. Please do not take this the wrong way, I do not mean to insult anyones inteligence or ability, I just mean to say that many here are quick to judge, and they have a right to be suspicious of everything and everyone, that is the nature of security, but I do challenge the naysayers to truly check out the software before completely condeming its use and capabilities. I have personnally demonstrated are software to several key individuals in the gov't, military, and corperate arenas both executive and technical persons. All were impressed have taken the software back for further testing. I have recieved positive responces from them and many have recomended / are presently using PrivaSoft. Once again, thank you for your help in editing and restructurin g the How secure document and i will post an updated version when it is ready. Also, if anyone would like a scrambled page E-mailed to them to look at / try to crack please E-mail me as such, I do not wish to post one only b/c many of you might not want to recieve it. If you have further questions or comments, I do appreciate and encourage them, please feel free to E-mail me at privsoft(a)ix.netcom.com or post them here. Steve O. ************************************************* PrivaSoft TM * 1877 Springfield Ave PO BOX 600 * Maplewood NJ 07040-0600 * Tel. 201-378-8865 Fax. 201-762-3742 * Http://www.privasoft.com/privasoft * E-mail: privsoft(a)ix.netcom.com * *************************************************

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Re: MD5 weakness ? [was Re: Netscape Logic Bomb detailed by IETF]
by Steve Bryan 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dr. Frederick B. Cohen writes: >In the case of the trust being placed in MD5 by Netscape, the assumption >being made (without adequate support as far as I can tell) is that an >MD5 checksum cannot be forced, through a chosen plaintext attack, to >yield checksums of 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 9, ... on up to enough primes to >allow the known plaintext attack that gets the RSA private key used to >authenticate messages. As far as I am aware (and I may not be aware of >everything) there is no reference work to support this assumption. If >the assumption is wrong, then the whole SSL can fall to a selected >plaintext attack launchable (presumably) through those general purpose >Java aplets we have heard so much about. With a mailing list this large and diverse one can reasonably assume a range of interests and expertise. What I don't understand is your agnostic stance on something as apparently basic as MD5. If computer security is your purported area of expertise why have you not reached any firm conclusions about it? I understand that rigid conclusions are unsafe (eg they'll never prove Fermat's last theorem) but it is not like every question is equally open. Do you have a realistic attack on MD5 or is this sophomoric claptrap? How do you propose to generate messages with specific message digests? Assuming you could somehow, how do you proceed to use that information to your advantage? So let's say I have a message digest and I'm retrieving the allegedly corresponding message which you have the opportunity to alter to your heart's content. How would you proceed, even in principle, to defeat MD5? I realize I might be assuming too much when I posit that I have the true MD5 for the message but my understanding is that you feel that MD5 might be vulnerable. I've given you all the known plaintexts. Is there a next step? +---------------------------------------------------------------------- |Steve Bryan Internet: sbryan(a)gofast.net |Sexton Software CompuServe: 76545,527 |Minneapolis, MN Fax: (612) 929-1799 |PGP key fingerprint: B4 C6 E2 A6 5F 87 57 7D E1 8C A6 9B A9 BE 96 CB +----------------------------------------------------------------------

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Welcome to c|net
by postmaster＠cnet.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Re: Verification of Registration
by Raymond Val 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Lynne L. Harrison writes: > Curious. Did anyone else receive this unsolicitated *invitation*? Everybody who receives mail from cypherpunks(a)toad.com received this message becuase the message was addressed to cypherpunks(a)toad.com. Apparently someone may have joined this 'group' or service and used the cypherpunks address as the e-mail address. Mayhap the cypherpunks(a)toad.com / cypherpunks userid/password. This would be my guess, of course. Does anybody know what this service does? Raymond Val x85849i1(a)cadet1.usma.edu ********************************************************* My opinions are my own and are not the goverments or my schools. ********************************************************* **************************************** Raymond Val x85849i1(a)cadet1.usma.edu ****************************************

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