December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

usenet-to-mail
by jrochkin＠cs.oberlin.edu 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

"Robert A. Hayden" <hayden(a)krypton.mankato.msus.edu> wrote: >More importantly, are there are usenet-to-mail gateways? My first impression was that that was just a joke. Then I thought it might be a very good idea after all. Then I thought it surely wasn't a joke, but also wasn't a very good idea. Now I'm not sure. :) It seems like it might be a good idea. All the anon remailers could watch a certain newsgroup, alt.remailer.submit perhaps, and take messages with a "anon-remailer-attn: specific@remailer", and deal with them just like normal mail input. Would there by any benefit to doing this at all over the present system? Why would someone submit a message to the remailer "bramble" via newsgroup instead of just mailing it? Unless you find an anonymous way to post to the newsgroup in the first place, your security seems to be seriously compromised. Even if everything is encrypted, you've made traffic analysis a huge amount easier. And if you are finding a way to post the a newsgroup anonymously in the first place, odds are you have some other entry point to the remailer bramble, so why make a stop on the newsgroup opening yourself up to traffic analysis? Now that I think about it, it seems that there isn't really any reason for such a thing.

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"Find The Dirt On The Internet!"
by tidaore＠aol.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Re: We really _aren't_ paranoid :)
by Johnathan Corgan 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Ginsburg later asked Days to cite an example of a law which Congress >> would NOT have the authority to enact under the Interstate Commerce >> Clause. Interjected Justice Scalia Don't give away anything here. >> They might want to do it. > >I'm not sure I follow. Is Scalia saying Don't give away anything here. >They[Congress?] might want to do it. ? That's what it sounds like to me. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.1 iQCVAwUBLtt80E1Diok8GKihAQHjjwP+Ljp8nSvm14pWWirV84u+jmjsQgopi3qd 1I/v1p/jdexucfBQzUIfVGEY1FPSBX7ok6gU6bJspKJffah68uIy7D2Zu72WmNSd ywjfoAX93JKhJ5AVKvV/bGJLKxqu2jdZ2p9AwQCp74n9Y4t/NbKyDHGzDwq0YaMp renusqwd8Mo= =ZSzM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ======================================================================= Johnathan Corgan "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent" jcorgan(a)netcom.com -Isaac Asimov PGP Public Key: http://www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/~bal/pks-toplev.html Or send email to: pgp-public-keys(a)pgp.ai.mit.edu Subj: GET jcorgan =======================================================================

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Crypto and Ease of Use (Was: Re: "You aren't following)
by jamiel＠sybase.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>At 3:58 AM 11/29/94, Lucky Green wrote: >Have you used premail? It pretty much does all of that. >People still aren't using premail, either because they can't figure out how >to install it (doubtful, it's not hard to install), or because they don't >have a need for it that's great enough to justify the (minimal) time >neccesary to ftp it and install it, or wait the (sometimes more painful) >time neccesary for the computer to encrypt and/or sign your outgoing >messages. I think there is still a difference between having functionality available for some effort (ftping, installing, reading the instructions) and having a menu item in Eudora. The difference is the same one that makes Macintoshes more popular than Unix boxes for the people out there who just want to get something done ("The Rest Of Us"). Full integration into mainstream products is nessessary before Your Avarage Joe out there will bother to use the various tools available. This may be somewhere in between Tim's pusher/puller distinctions - crypto-related technologies are compelling, but not enough to draw people in without ease of use. "If you build it, they will come (but only if it is pretty)." -j -- On the internet, no one knows you're a deity. ___________________________________________________________________ Jamie Lawrence <jamiel(a)sybase.com> Soon ---------> <foodie(a)netcom.com>

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Re: Brit Fascists To Track Motorists - DigiCash Obsolescent
by sar 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 07:23 AM 7/25/97 -0400, you wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >At 02:34 AM 7/24/97 -0700, Kent Crispin wrote: >>On Wed, Jul 23, 1997 at 01:59:00PM -0700, Bill Stewart wrote: >>[...] >>> And, yes, all of this privacy loss happens because somebody decided >>> it was convenient to put a car-ownership-tax receipt on the outside >>> of a car so police can quickly decide if you've paid your taxes... >>> The rest of it's just implementation details. >> >>Of course, you could just confine your driving to private roads, and >>leave the license plate off. > >Sabotaging your plates so they weren't machine readable or using a car >registered in Slovenia or Wisconsin (both possible in the UK) would make more >sense. > remember those purple neon "chaser" lights that people used to put around thier plates to to make them harder to read and bounce lidar off of... dont see them much anymore they probably went the way of blackout windows they both make it harder for police to apprehend the dangerous criminals. In fact if you get pulled over with blackout windows in NYC you might be greeted by one of new yorks finest pointing a gun at you instead of the ususal solem "liscense and registration please". I think that if the government could make a case that mandatory brain removal would stop crime most people would be all for it.

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Re: Transparent Email
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Knumbskull Alert! On the transparent e-mail topic, I send the presumably anonymous mail headers below received here by way of The Pipeline provider. Would some kind soul verify that the headers do not disclose the true ID or true address or true path other true info that would identify the prayerfully anonymous sender? Every piece of mail coming here has such headers. Does everyone else get the same? FWIW, the mail system automagically lists the sender and the subject in a neat chart, and hides the header if commanded to do so, or reveals it to the prying mind. Thanks. John Young (signing until forbidden) PS: It's true that Pipeline was cracked last Saturday and the system shut down for a while "due to a security breach". The story in the WSJ about the "Internet Liberation Front" explained more than we clueless subscribers were allowed to know -- as the story said, corporations don't want us babes to know about our vulnerabilities, we might demand better service. ------------------- Jpunix Header: >From owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com Mon Nov 28 20:14 EST 1994 Received: from relay2.UU.NET (relay2.UU.NET [192.48.96.7]) by pipeline.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA22639 for <jya(a)pipeline.com>; Mon, 28 Nov 1994 20:14:45 -0500 Received: from toad.com by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP id QQxsau18498; Mon, 28 Nov 1994 20:13:25 -0500 Received: by toad.com id AA12541; Mon, 28 Nov 94 17:08:09 PST Received: from jpunix.com by toad.com id AA12535; Mon, 28 Nov 94 17:07:57 PST Received: (from remailer@localhost) by jpunix.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id TAA17362 for cypherpunks(a)toad.com; Mon, 28 Nov 1994 19:07:46 -0600 Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 19:07:46 -0600 Message-Id: <199411290107.TAA17362(a)jpunix.com> To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com Subject: RE: Cash From: nobody(a)jpunix.com (Anonymous) Comments: This message did not originate from the above address. It was automatically remailed by an anonymous mail service. Please report inappropriate use to <remail-adm(a)jpunix.com> NOTE: Mail to nobody is sent to /dev/null Finger remailer(a)jpunix.com for remailer help. Finger kserver(a)jpunix.com for PGP keyserver help. Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com Precedence: bulk Content-Type: text Content-Length: 801 ------------------- Chaos.bsu Header (spooge): >From owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com Mon Nov 28 10:09 EST 1994 Received: from relay2.UU.NET (relay2.UU.NET [192.48.96.7]) by pipeline.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA26339 for <jya(a)pipeline.com>; Mon, 28 Nov 1994 10:09:55 -0500 Received: from toad.com by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP id QQxrzg29356; Mon, 28 Nov 1994 10:03:33 -0500 Received: by toad.com id AA25960; Mon, 28 Nov 94 07:01:07 PST Received: from bsu-cs.bsu.edu by toad.com id AA25954; Mon, 28 Nov 94 07:01:03 PST Received: (from nowhere@localhost) by bsu-cs.bsu.edu (8.6.9/8.6.6) id KAA16037 for cypherpunks(a)toad.com; Mon, 28 Nov 1994 10:00:55 -0500 Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 10:00:55 -0500 Message-Id: <199411281500.KAA16037(a)bsu-cs.bsu.edu> From: Anonymous <nowhere(a)bsu-cs.bsu.edu> To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com X-Remailed-By: Anonymous <nowhere(a)bsu-cs.bsu.edu> X-Ttl: 2 X-Notice: This message was forwarded by a software- automated anonymous remailing service. Comment: The contents of this message are neither condoned by nor approved by Ball State University. Please report problems or complaints to nowhere(a)chaos.bsu.edu Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com Precedence: bulk Content-Type: text Content-Length: 105 ------------------- Anon.penet.fi Header (Al Capone) >From owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com Sun Nov 27 19:49 EST 1994 Received: from news.pipeline.com (news [198.80.32.5]) by pipeline.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA05980 for <jya(a)pipeline.com>; Sun, 27 Nov 1994 19:49:52 -0500 Received: from relay2.UU.NET (relay2.UU.NET [192.48.96.7]) by news.pipeline.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA14755 for <jya(a)pipeline.com>; Sun, 27 Nov 1994 19:30:25 -0500 Received: from toad.com by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP id QQxrwz27537; Sun, 27 Nov 1994 19:29:53 -0500 Received: by toad.com id AA16432; Sun, 27 Nov 94 16:27:21 PST Received: from anon.penet.fi by toad.com id AA16426; Sun, 27 Nov 94 16:27:16 PST Received: by anon.penet.fi (5.67/1.35) id AA03124; Mon, 28 Nov 94 01:12:06 +0200 Message-Id: <9411272312.AA03124(a)anon.penet.fi> To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com From: an41389(a)anon.penet.fi (The Al Capone of the Info Highway) X-Anonymously-To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com Organization: Anonymous contact service Reply-To: an41389(a)anon.penet.fi Date: Sun, 27 Nov 1994 23:12:05 UTC Subject: How to disable telnet to port 25 Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com Precedence: bulk Content-Type: text Content-Length: 764 ------------------- Nately Header: >From owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com Sat Nov 26 22:50 EST 1994 Received: from relay2.UU.NET (relay2.UU.NET [192.48.96.7]) by pipeline.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA12434 for <jya(a)pipeline.com>; Sat, 26 Nov 1994 22:50:31 -0500 Received: from toad.com by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP id QQxrtv11771; Sat, 26 Nov 1994 22:50:04 -0500 Received: by toad.com id AA02097; Sat, 26 Nov 94 19:47:48 PST Received: from ucsd.edu by toad.com id AA02091; Sat, 26 Nov 94 19:47:45 PST Received: from nately.UCSD.EDU by ucsd.edu; id TAA19011 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun via SMTP Sat, 26 Nov 1994 19:47:41 -0800 for <cypherpunks(a)toad.com> Received: by nately.UCSD.EDU (4.1/UCSDGENERIC.4) id AA12222 to cypherpunks(a)toad.com; Sat, 26 Nov 94 19:50:40 PST Date: Sat, 26 Nov 94 19:50:40 PST Message-Id: <9411270350.AA12222(a)nately.UCSD.EDU> To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com Subject: Need program pointers From: nobody(a)nately.UCSD.EDU (Anonymous) Comments: This message did not originate from the above address. It was automatically remailed by an anonymous mail service. Please report inappropriate use to <complaints(a)nately.ucsd.edu> Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com Precedence: bulk Content-Type: text Content-Length: 978 From: IN%"storm(a)marlin.ssnet.com" 26-NOV-1994 21:38:47.14 To: IN%"cypherpunks(a)toad.com" CC: IN%"storm(a)marlin.ssnet.com" Subj: Need program pointers ------------------- Au.informix Header (Critias): >From owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com Sat Nov 26 17:58 EST 1994 Received: from relay2.UU.NET (relay2.UU.NET [192.48.96.7]) by pipeline.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA29778 for <jya(a)pipeline.com>; Sat, 26 Nov 1994 17:58:07 -0500 Received: from toad.com by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP id QQxrtb28834; Sat, 26 Nov 1994 17:56:43 -0500 Received: by toad.com id AA28479; Sat, 26 Nov 94 14:52:50 PST Received: from gateway.informix.com by toad.com id AA28473; Sat, 26 Nov 94 14:52:39 PST Received: from informix.com (infmx.informix.com) by gateway.informix.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA20299; Sat, 26 Nov 94 14:52:34 PST Received: from carbon.informix.com by informix.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA06617; Sat, 26 Nov 94 14:52:33 PST Received: by carbon.informix.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00381; Sat, 26 Nov 94 14:53:23 PST Date: Sat, 26 Nov 94 14:53:23 PST From: Critias_the_conspirator(a)au.informix.com Message-Id: <9411262253.AA00381(a)carbon.informix.com> Subject: Privacy Digest Apparently-To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com Precedence: bulk Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2111 ------------------- Access Header (Uni): >From owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com Sat Nov 26 15:40 EST 1994 Received: from relay2.UU.NET (relay2.UU.NET [192.48.96.7]) by pipeline.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA21937 for <jya(a)pipeline.com>; Sat, 26 Nov 1994 15:40:51 -0500 Received: from toad.com by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP id QQxrss22905; Sat, 26 Nov 1994 15:40:01 -0500 Received: by toad.com id AA24978; Sat, 26 Nov 94 12:17:51 PST Received: from access3.digex.net by toad.com id AA24972; Sat, 26 Nov 94 12:17:40 PST Received: by access3.digex.net id AA16948 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for cypherpunks(a)toad.com) Sat, 26 Nov 1994 15:17:29 -0500 Date: Sat, 26 Nov 1994 15:17:29 -0500 (EST) From: Black Unicorn <unicorn(a)access.digex.net> To: Gary Jeffers <CCGARY(a)MIZZOU1.missouri.edu> Cc: cypherpunks(a)toad.com Subject: Re: Privacy Digest - Blk Unicorn , Frissell, Sandfort In-Reply-To: <9411261934.AA23910(a)toad.com> Message-Id: <Pine.SUN.3.91.941126151628.16895A-100000(a)access3.digex.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com Precedence: bulk Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 1332

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Re: An Attempt to Hobble SAFE Crypto Bill
by Peter D. Junger 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

: http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/5492.html : : : An Attempt to Hobble House Crypto Bill : : by Rebecca Vesely : : 9:08am 25.Jul.97.PDT A Republican opponent of a House : bill that would loosen controls on the use and export of : encryption is circulating an amendment that would : effectively cripple the legislation. : : The amendment, by Representative Benjamin Gilman : (R-New York), who chairs the International Relations : Committee, would make it unlawful to "manufacture, : distribute, sell, or import any product within the United : States that can be used to encrypt communications or : information if the product does not permit the real-time : decryption of such encrypted communications or : information." Besides the first amendment issues that I raised earlier, there are certain other problems with this amendment. Say it takes 2,000 years to decrypt a message, now that is what I would really call ``real time''. And there could also be a message that could be decrypted in ten seconds, but only by someone who has the key. Obviously this draft of an amendment is very rough, incomplete, mistranscribed, or some or all of the above. -- Peter D. Junger--Case Western Reserve University Law School--Cleveland, OH EMAIL: junger(a)samsara.law.cwru.edu URL: http://samsara.law.cwru.edu NOTE: junger(a)pdj2-ra.f-remote.cwru.edu no longer exists

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Re: "You aren't following the _rules_!"
by merriman＠metronet.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Jonathan Rochkind replied: >At 3:58 AM 11/29/94 Lucky Green wrote: >>I do not mean to belittle the work that has been done but unless the >>encryption is built into the mailer and using a remailer means clicking the >>"use X remailer(s)" button and the mailer better know which ones are >>working and do the PGP envelopes it won't happen. > >Have you used premail? It pretty much does all of that. >People still aren't using premail either because they can't figure out how >to install it (doubtful it's not hard to install) or because they don't >have a need for it that's great enough to justify the (minimal) time >neccesary to ftp it and install it or wait the (sometimes more painful) >time neccesary for the computer to encrypt and/or sign your outgoing >messages. This brings up a point that I - among others - have to flog every now and then: the *x-centric nature of most of the net. I have no doubt that premail works wonders - but I don't know of any version of it that would run on my MS-DOS box a Mac an Amiga etc. I use PC Eudora for email and have pinged on QualComm every so often to ask when the commercial version will allow/support external encryption programs. As some may have noticed over the weekend I also started trying to use the PGP Tools package to try and write a PGP.DLL. For various reasons (mostly me :-) it's going to be more difficult and take longer than I thought - but I am *not* going to give up on it. Until/unless there exists fairly easy-to-implement means of including crypto for applications programmers on a variety of platforms other than *x boxes progress in the click-a-button-to-encrypt area is going to be bloody slow. > >Because premail makes it incredibly easy to use PGP on a unix box. And for >that matter the Eudora/PGP applescritps make it incredibly easy to use PGP >on a mac. And there are some people working on an applescript that will >automate using remailers on a mac too. But ease of use appearantly isn't >enough; no matter how easy it gets to use it's still going to have some >cost to the user over not using it. Even if the cost is only having to wait >the 1.5 seconds it takes your machine to decrypt/encrypt a message. Unless >there's a use for it people won't be willing to spend that 1.5 seconds per >message. This kinda supports my previous observations: the necessity of adding external scripts and such to the Mac version of Eudora slows down the program's operation more than necessary. If there were a Mac resource (of whatever kind - I'm not Mac-fluent) that the nice folks over at QualComm could use to build crypto into the program to start with then they wouldn't have the excuse of "we can't because there's nothing to do it with at the source level". My ha-penny's worth.... Dave Merriman -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBLtuEeMVrTvyYOzAZAQFwuwQAtGMZyS3vj1T88EgaLuKOqWARruGjWTxv V2+Lri/nPuBwm6Nkfu12MBHGXl9QlMsh58MuhvFfvA2qdgmuDBy0iHBaPq0C1L5v 1YnHiBHrYIfLkNchqapuMQSM6tbL+PJWGWikqYV2Nv7SR6Mtu+jCK8yt6biHZxIm qU9Yk4CJ0Kw= =+K/s -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Finger merriman(a)feenix.metronet.com for PGP public key and fingerprint. PGP encrypted Email welcome, encouraged, and preferred. "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." John F. Kennedy

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Dr Dobb's Info Way
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dr. Dobb's has a special Winter issue on the "Information Highway" which includes a good long article on the economics of the system, past, present and future, and another fine piece on e-mail security by Bruce Schneier. That's Winter 1994, Volume 19, Issue 14.

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Stego paper
by Adam Shostack 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

There is a paper on stegonography "Minimum Protocols for the Insertion of Messages into Random or Pseudorandom Data" posted to sci.crypt.research. From: klockstone(a)cix.compulink.co.uk (Keith Lockstone) Message-ID: <3benes$pbh(a)net.auckland.ac.nz> Adam -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume

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