December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Pseudospoofing
by hughes＠ah.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

This message went to cypherwonks. Eric ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- The issue here is epistemology. >There would be no problem if I asked a tentacle, `are you a pseudonym' >and it answered `yes'. This is exactly like the question "Are you a liar?", to which the answer is always "no". >But the cypherpunks are setting up a network of >fake sites and identities and continue to claim, to the very end, `yes, >I am real' with their fake identities. When I am accused of saying "I am real" from the mouth of a fake identity, and I deny this accusation, there are two models of reality which satisfy the words exchanged: -- I am using a fake identity, and I am lying to deny it. -- I am not using a fake identity, and am telling the truth to deny it. When confronted by a barrage of continuing accusations to which no answer is possible, I prefer to remain silent. I can gain no benefit from discourse in this situation and can only waste my time and the time of my correspondent. The usual way to break out of this 'solipsism of the dialogue' is to invoke a social mechanism, that is, ask someone else. Under a belief of widespread impersonation, however, all denials are now presumed to come from the original speaker of the first denial. Thus the solipsism of the dialogue expands to a solipsism of all dialogues. >Cypherpunks, please tell me what question I can ask of a psychopunk >tentacle such that it will not lie and say that it is a real person! If >you have any honesty or credibility, tell me that question! There is no such question, as I argue above. Am I dishonest if I cannot exhibit the nonexistent? Eric

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Psychobabble
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Newsgroups: talk.politics.crypto,alt.privacy,alt.privacy.anon-server,news.admin.policy,comp.org.eff.talk,comp.admin.policy,alt.conspiracy From: ld231782(a)LANCE.ColoState.Edu (L. Detweiler) Subject: Re: CRYPTOANARCHIST INFILTRATION ALERT Sender: news(a)yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (News Account) Message-ID: <Dec05.095347.86607(a)yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1993 09:53:47 GMT References: <071303Z27111993(a)anon.penet.fi> <szaboCH5E17.HHK(a)netcom.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: traver.lance.colostate.edu Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO 80523 X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 021193BETA PL3] Followup-To: talk.politics.crypto,alt.privacy,alt.privacy.anon-server,news.admin.policy,comp.org.eff.talk,comp.admin.policy,alt.conspiracy Nick Szabo (szabo(a)netcom.com) wrote: : No, Mr. : Detweiler, I'm not "pseudospoofing", How do you explain your statements I analyzed in RISKS 15.27, where you posted to cypherpunks promoting your sophisticated pseudospoofing techniques? Multiple posting sites, countermeasures and contempt for `opponents' who attempt to determine whether your tentacles are who they claim to be. Frankly, I think you are a baldfaced liar. Are you intellectually challenged or am I going to have to go root up all the archives to prove it? You cryptoanarchists are so arrogant. it will be your downfall. ``I have never communicated under any other name than E.Hughes.' (E.Hughes, RISKS 15.28x) ``You can have your private conspiracy xor your public credibility. Soon, you will have neither.'' -- ld231782(a)longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU -- ld231782(a)longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU Newsgroups: talk.politics.crypto,alt.privacy,alt.privacy.anon-server,news.admin.policy,comp.org.eff.talk,comp.admin.policy,alt.conspiracy,alt.wired From: ld231782(a)traver.lance.colostate.edu (L. Detweiler) Subject: Re: CRYPTOANARCHIST INFILTRATION ALERT Sender: news(a)yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (News Account) Message-ID: <Dec05.100158.56184(a)yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1993 10:01:58 GMT References: <071303Z27111993(a)anon.penet.fi> <CH6CnA.Dq2(a)Colorado.EDU> <sheafferCHBxos.70D(a)netcom.com> <PMETZGER.93Dec2154048(a)snark.lehman.com> <strnlghtCHJ6yA.EGL(a)netcom.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: traver.lance.colostate.edu Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO 80523 X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 021193BETA PL3] Followup-To: talk.politics.crypto,alt.privacy,alt.privacy.anon-server,news.admin.policy,comp.org.eff.talk,comp.admin.policy,alt.conspiracy,alt.wired David Sternlight (strnlght(a)netcom.com) wrote: : In article <PMETZGER.93Dec2154048(a)snark.lehman.com>, : Perry E. Metzger <pmetzger(a)lehman.com> wrote (about L. Detweiler): : >He's : >literally insane -- it isn't just hyperbole. : The pot calling the kettle black? hee, hee, once P.Metzger complained in his typical searing flame fashion on the cpunk list that the word `cypherpunk' was just too darn subversive sounding. Mr. Metzger is another classic cryptoanarchist. Hey Perry, could you send me another mailbomb for tweaking your nose? let the record show I am in no way agreeing with S.Sternlight <g> people interested in civilizing cyberspace and repressing the cryptoanarchist scum should send `subscribe cypherwonks' to majordomo(a)lists.eunet.fi. Electronic Democracy is on it's way! -- ld231782(a)longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU Newsgroups: alt.politics.datahighway,comp.org.eff.talk,talk.politics.crypto From: ld231782(a)LANCE.ColoState.Edu (L. Detweiler) Subject: Re: The Data Highway Patrol Sender: news(a)yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (News Account) Message-ID: <Dec05.095354.95894(a)yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1993 09:53:54 GMT References: <tcmayCHGF7E.Cu1(a)netcom.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: traver.lance.colostate.edu Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO 80523 X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 021193BETA PL3] Followup-To: alt.politics.datahighway,comp.org.eff.talk,talk.politics.crypto Timothy C. May (tcmay(a)netcom.com) wrote: : The Data Highway will no doubt be patrolled by a new elite police : force, the "Data Highway Patrol." ha, ha, cryptoanarchists beware. : They'll be sent out on their Harley-Davidson cybercycles to check for : discriminatory data packets, for illegal use of encryption technology, : and for "heavy loads" that strain network resources. And occasionally : they'll stop and help a stranded Internetter. and the cryptoanarchists like you will call them `pigs' and resent them for promoting law and order where you previously had your delightful lawless anarchy. : Will President Reno send them in to raid the Cyber-Waco havens? I dunno, but I hope she cracks down on the cryptoanarchist terrorists like you. : I was writing an essay for the Cypherpunks mailing list on the way : strong crypto will make local gambling laws unenforceable (through : "telegambling," where a casino in the Bahamas, or "somewhere" in : cypherspace, is only a phone call through some digital mixes away). It : became clear to me that the authorities will hardly countenance the use : of the Data Highway---the taxpayer's NII--for such uses. yes, the cryptoanarchists will be quite at home when it is possible and rampant. The Cyberspatial Mafia. complete with corruption, bribery, and hit men. : (And a lot of other "interesting" uses I could describe. If : interested, join the Cypherpunks mailing list by sending a request to : "cypherpunks-request(a)toad.com". We were featured on the cover of the : second issue of "Wired" and in the Summer, '93 issue of "Whole Earth : Review," etc. An interesting bunch of folks.) Warning: join the cypherpunks only if you are interested in cryptoanarchist brainwashing from multiple fake identities, many of them from the leaders themselves. `An interesting bunch of folks'. Hee, hee. more like cryptoanarchists and cyberspatial terrorists and guerillas, masters of subterfuge and sabotage, gaining increasing respectability and influence every day. You guys own a congressman yet? : No, the Data Highway won't likely tolerate "sealed loads" that might : be accessing offshore gambling dens, kiddie porn rings, or weapons : secret information markets (not to mention the ever-worrisome : anonymous markets for assasinations...child's play with digital : remailers and digital cash). Poor timmy and your cryptoanarchists, what are you going to do, given that your favorite black uses are barred and illegal? : rules and regulations for "fair access," for the allowable data : packets that can travel on it, and for taxation of the explosion in : commercial traffic which will inevitably come. : Hence, the Data Highway Patrol. : Or maybe they'll call it the "CyberSpace Patrol." who will prevent people like you from building up arsenals of fake identities to deceive others. : Personally, I hate government programs. I don't want the government : "helping" with networks, and I don't want a streamlined data highway. : I like the developing system we've got of zillions of cables, : satellites, fiber optics, and the like, With lots of suppliers of : services and lots of rerouting of packets, it makes it real hard to : enforce the kind of restriction cited above. poor timmy and his cryptoanarchists don't understand the world they live in. they are outcasts and misfits who think that all forms of Government and even Democracy are Orwellian oppressions. they will criticize any system that attempts to put together secure email, that prevents forgery at the protocol level, as Orwellian. : Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, : tcmay(a)netcom.com | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero : 408-688-5409 | knowledge, reputations, information markets, : W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA | black markets, collapse of governments. : Higher Power: 2^756839 | Public Key: PGP and MailSafe available. You forgot tax evasion, black marketeering, drug trafficking, pornography, distribution, espionage, overthrow of governments. When are you going to update your .sig? : Note: I put time and money into writing this posting. I hope you enjoy it. Delightful! -- ld231782(a)longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU -- ld231782(a)longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU

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Re: Escobar and Cellular Ph0n3z
by Peter Wayner 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Notes on Escobar: *) Tom Clancy's next-to-last novel, _Clear and Present Danger_ describes a secret drug interdiction mission run by the US Government. It is a novel, but he is well-known for getting many of the details right. The important de-ja-vu is that in the novel, the agents used a "box" that allowed them to recognize the voices of the various druglords no matter which phone line they used. This box would scan all of the cellular channels. *) I believe that Escobar called some radio station to complain about some story about him. The call was traced. Perhaps by mundane, Dragnet-era techniques. (I'm not sure about this point. Any confirmation?)

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Crypto Talk at Stanford, 8 December
by tcmay＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Here are some details about the crypto talk I mentioned recently. You're all welcome to attend, though of course you need to be in the Bay Area! --Tim May Forwarded message: > From daemon(a)Sunburn.Stanford.EDU Fri Dec 3 14:13:02 1993 > Date: Fri, 3 Dec 93 13:56:37 -0800 > From: pranita amarasinghe <pranita(a)shasta.Stanford.EDU> > Reply-To: pranita amarasinghe <pranita(a)shasta.Stanford.EDU> > To: csl-everyone(a)shasta.Stanford.EDU, colloq(a)cs.Stanford.EDU > Subject: EE380 Seminar > Message-Id: <CMM.0.88.754955483.pranita(a)shasta.Stanford.EDU> > > EE380 Computer Systems Colloquim > > Autumn Qtr. 1993/1994 > > Lecture #10 > > Date: Wednesday, December 8, 1993 > > Time: 4:15 - 5:30pm > > Location: Skilling Auditorium > > Title: Implications of Modern Cryptology: Is the Crypto Genie > Already Out of the Bottle? > > Speaker: Timothy C. May, Cryptologic Corp. > > Abstract: > The implications of modern cryptology are profound. Governments and > national borders as we know them today will be affected by this > technology in major ways. Essentially unbreakable ciphers, secure > communications, untraceable digital money, data havens, electronic > voting, and black markets in information are just some of the likely > developments. Some of these already exist, others are on the horizon. > Meanwhile, the Government has other plans, with its "Clipper" > chip that keeps a "master key" and allows it to digitally wiretap at > will. Who will win? How will these conflicting trends resolve > themselves? Is the crypto genie already out of the bottle? > > These issues will be the topic of the talk, with plenty of time left for > discussion. The focus will be partly on technology -- just enough to > provide a plausible foundation for belief -- and partly on the economic, > legal, and political structures resulting from strong crypto. No > number theory will be used. > > Speaker Bio: > Tim May worked for Intel for 12 years, retiring in 1986. He discovered > the alpha particle and cosmic ray effect on semiconductor memories, for > which he received several awards including the IEEE's W.R.G. Baker Prize > for the best original research paper. Since leaving Intel, his main > interests have been in cryptology, information theory, and investments. > In 1992 he co-founded the "Cypherpunks" group and spends much of his time > on the Internet. He's also trying to finish a novel about these topics. > > ===== > +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ > | To get removed from this mailing list (colloq-local), send your request | > | to colloq-request(a)cs.Stanford.EDU. See the weekly summary for more info. | > +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Encryption and IP via Cable "TV"
by Harry Shapiro 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I pulled this off of nexis. Please note the line I highlighted. Does anyone know what kind of encryption is being used? At even $100 per month, we could set up also sorts of remailers all over the country. We could even create a secure comm. via PGP (for voice) via IP, etc. But I wonder if the encryption "they" are using would interfer with such schemes? /hawk Ethernet connection, but wouldn't require any other additional installation on users' part. PSI isU.S." PSI plans to have 2 tiers of service, business and residential. Network security problem has been ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ solved, using "on-the-fly" data encryption, he said. One issue that ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ hasn't been fully resolved by Continental is reliability, Schoffstall said. "Cable companies are used to supplying entertainment. If their network goes down for a day, wesame cable system to provide their data, essentially their livelihood in the case of business users, well, there's going to have to be much better understanding of how to provide some guarantees of service." Price for service in homes is to be $ 75-$ 100 per month at start, but is expected to drop rapidly as economies of scale grow. -- Harry S. Hawk habs(a)extropy.org Electronic Communications Officer, Extropy Institute Inc. The Extropians Mailing List, Since 1991 EXTROPY -- A measure of intelligence, information, energy, vitality, experience, diversity, opportunity, and growth. EXTROPIANISM -- The philosophy that seeks to increase extropy.

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Graynet - anon/encrypted piracy
by Alexander Chislenko 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

P.O. Box may be not the safest way of collecting the money; encrypted anonymous cash transactions would be much better; also, one can not only advertize on the net, but provide the service. Suppose I open a virtual store selling illegal/copyrighted info - software, music, movies, porn, etc. Pirates receive royalties from the stuff they upload; customers, naturally, pay. All anonymous and encrypted and based on a network of hard-to close (offshore?) remailers. The potential revenues from such a store seem well worth the effort of setting it up. The question is how can they close it? -- Sasha?

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Enough is enough
by Matthew J Miszewski 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

please do 1 of the following two things. 1) Ignore L. Detweiller completely and put a message in the welcome message to the effect that he posts highly flamable material and replys should preferably go to his private email box. 2) Ban him from posting. Yes that is what i said. I believe whole heartedly in freddom of speech, but when that freedom interferes with other rights it may be impinged. I believe that one of those palces is the educational arena. I am trying to learn and before LD came on stage I learned a *shitload* from the cypherpunks. I do not censor easily, but it is unbearable. If i had the resources I would start another mailing list and invite everyone but him. Shocker I have the right to *not* include you. And I would exercise it. Ive been on the list for about a year and dont want to leave. Another option if the first two are no good would be to simply have everyone on the list forward every, *every* , post coming from LD to his postmaster. If they let it out, they might as well get as frustrated with his antics as me. And LD, I am a law student with an itchy litigation finger :-)...try me. --Matt ______________________________________________________________________________ In defense of liberty, encrypt for all purposes, civil and professional. In defense of privacy, encrypt all correspondence, personal and professional. In defense of sanity, do not encrypt your dry cleaning invoice! ++++++++--------mjmiski(a)macc.wisc.edu (c)1993

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L. Detweiler, S. Boxx, the Executioner, idiots etc.
by Jamie Jamison 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

After slogging through God knows how many rants by the imbecilic and possibly syphilitic Detweiler, I would have to say that I wish that some massive CypherPunk/Medusa criminal conspiracy did exist so that it, the conspiracy, could wipe this asshole off the face of the earth. Unfortunately for us it doesn't, or perhaps it does and it regards Mr. Detweiler as being too stupid and incompetent to bother with. Perhaps the best policy for dealing with paranoids such as Herr Detweiler would be to enact what I call mail stoning. The way this works is that every time Detweiler posts you take his post and mail it back to him. If enough users do this it will make his account unusable due to the sheer volume of mail he will be receiving. At this point hopefully he'll shut up and go find some other group to infest (Hey, I know, he could go over to talk.politics.homosexuality, which got pretty quiet after Gary Landers left). Jamie Jamison niteowl(a)u.washington.edu WITH STANDARD_DISCLAIMER Since I am both a student and a staff member of the UW, as well as a Washington taxpayer I suppose that in some vague and nebulous sense I could be speaking for them. However I doubt that my boss, my profs, or my elected representatives would agree with this, so let's just say that my opinions are mine and mine alone, and leave it at that.

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anyone out there thinking that
by nate＠VIS.ColoState.EDU 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

CypherPunks, Is there anyone out there thinking that in several years all of us will be looking back on this (The Detweiler fiasco) and remarking on it as being something of a ground-breaking flame war that would have repercussions throughout cyberspace and the future? I was thinking this today, while I was working away in my Lab. "What a funny thought!", I thought. Someday, in the near future, all of us will be able to say that we were part of a major breakthrough in Cyberspacial history, the first (I am afraid it will be the first of many) McCarthy-type witch hunts (maybe in the future we'll be accused by "legitimate" government agencies of being the Medusas behind many Tenticles, hunted, wrongly, like dogs). I am chilled to the bone at the thought, personally. -nate -- +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Nate Sammons nate(a)VIS.ColoState.Edu (303) 491-1578 | | Colorado State University -- Computer Visualization Laboratory | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Gwest what!
by L. Detweiler 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Sigh. No one has taken over for me, but I still have many requests from people who loved the Guess Which Eminent Leader Said This game. I will do this one in batches, and save the best for last. I include some translations (they speak in CryptoAnarchish, and this will help refine my translation skills). This is probably the last one, but one never knows if I might get some new material later. * * * Third Eminent Leader The Third eminent leader is mostly uninvolved personally, but he is still an accomplice to concealing the perversions of the other two leaders. `Pseudonyms are for magazine subscriptions. Besides, Chaum came up with pseudonyms for his own protocols. Is he subversive?' The point to make about this is that Chaum's pseudonyms are *understood* to be pseudonyms by a bank. But this detracts from the potency of the propaganda. And the Cryptoanarchist tentacles are very different than magazine pseudonyms! But he will never understand something so contrary to the Religion of Lies. (I was quite disappointed to find he had been brainwashed.) Anyway, next one: `I only give my phone number to my friends. I'm not going to give it to you, the way things are going with our conversations.' I was going to call this Eminent Leader to ask him about some of his claims in his email messages and his personal knowledge and involvement in the Cypherpunk pseudospoofing. I think he feels more comfortable lying in email than on the phone. * * * Second Eminent Leader: `Better to leave all our beliefs unwritten, and pretend the agenda is what we favor.'' I can't remember if this was through the `jamie' tentacle or not. But it is highly characteristic of this person, whose whole life is nothing but a pretense. Every post of his was designed to cleverly conceal some hidden agenda in respectable prose. A master of brainwashing! more on this later. `better to live with the occasional vagaries of digital pseudonyms than to ban them.' This is doublespeak for saying, `You had better not find out that I have been molesting you with my tentacles all this time!' * * * First Eminent Leader: The First Eminent Leader keeps a low profile on the list under his True Name, but realize that his tentacles have always been the most active of all! He is also a firm believer in the CryptoAnarchist ideology. He is the main purveyor! Most other outlets are secondary. But he is very careful only to speak through his tentacles, because he knows the Cryptoanarchist agenda is inherently criminal. As for ideology, let's just say he's more extremist than Perry Metzger. ``I am [x]. I have never posted or emailed under any name other than [x]. At least, that's what I say. It's really a baldfaced lie. What I am saying is that I have been so extremely clever (it is my nature to outthink all the other pathetic brains out there!) that no one can prove otherwise, particularly regarding the tentacles I have used to molest my followers with. I can attest that I am different from other people, including the ones that I invent.'' This was an interesting quote. You migh think that this person would be scared of lying in RISKS or sending his tentacle-grams in for submissions. Actually, he has been doing it for quite awhile! The next one he sent me in private mail a long time ago. The scenario was when I posted my message, `An Introspective Note' that led me to all my brilliant realizations over the last few weeks, and the demonization by every cypherpunk as Satan. So, this was long before I had poisoned my reputation in front of the cypherpunks. (`The enmity of a criminal is equivalent to the praise of a hero.') ``You must learn to be a sycophant in your posts or less conspicuous and refined. You are outshining those who created the Cypherpunks. I have too long tolerated your trash. You must learn to kiss my ass. If I prevented you from posting, that would not be censorship. It would be a simple exercise of my silent, iron fist.'' And, one of my favorites. This demonstrates the leader's arrogance and commitment to pseudospoofing quite nicely. ``That which can never be enforced should not be prohibited. That which is illegal or perverted should be allowed. The claim that a person should have only one pseudonym per forum indicates profound misunderstanding. The claim that a leader should be prevented from molesting his followers with tentacles indicates profound enlightenment. If someone wants to have multiple pseudonyms, they will be able to; that is one of the main goals of cypherpunks software. If a leader wants to molest even the people who trust him with dozens of tentacles, he will do so, that is one of the main goals of my life of lies. The situations you despise will occur. I, Medusa, will betray you with my snakes. This is reality. This is my life. Change your own psychology or change your own software. Become corrupt yourself or try in vain to prevent something that cannot be stopped. You will not be able to change the other person. I am God.''

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