December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

[CRYPTO] PGP
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Timmy C[reep] May has been beaten up numerous times by fellow prostitutes for driving blow job prices down. (((> /< ( / ((({{{{{:< \ \<

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Re: Deloitte-Touche?
by Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Marshall Clow <mclow(a)owl.csusm.edu> writes: > Several people wrote: > >I wrote: > >>ObCrypto policy: > >> Was anyone else besides me amazed by the guy > >>from Deloitte-Touche at the Internet Privacy Coalition luncheon > >>last week? I mean, he all but advocated violent overthrow of > >>the government. [...] > > > >For the benefit of those of us who were not at this luncheon (probably > >not even in the same country), could you please say more about this, > >Marshall? What was the subject? What _did_ the DT speaker say, exactly? > > > After a while, I stopped taking notes, because I was so astounded at > what he was saying. > (Maybe someone with more complete notes could post a better summary) > > But, here a brief overview of the luncheon: > > Last Wednesday, January 29th, the Internet Privacy Coalition had > a "policy lunch" in San Francisco. It was in one of the hotels hosting > the RSA conference, and at the same time that the conference was > breaking for lunch, so it was easy for attendees to "switch lunches". > > The speakers (as I remember, apologies to any I miss) were: > Whit Diffie > John Gilmore > Kenneth Bass (counsel in Karn vs. Dept of State) > Herb Lin (who ran the NRC staff for the crypto study) > Marc Rotenberg > William Hugh Murray (Deloitte & Touche) > and a couple others that I missed, as I left early. > > Mr. Murray gave a long, impassioned speech. > > He said that the government is going to crack down on > domestic possession and use of crypto, that they > were looking to increase their wiretapping capabilities > 100-fold, and so on. > > He was very emphatic about not trusting anything > that the government says, and that once they got > their "foot in the door", that they would seek to > expand their abilities to regulate, etc, etc. > > He advocated deployment of strong crypto. He > insisted that there was no way the government > could stop the export of strong crypto. He exhorted > people to refuse to obey the ITAR/EAR regulations, > and to lobby their congresscritters to get the > PRO-CODE bill passed. > > > It wasn't really what he said that amazed me, because > I had heard most of it (in bits and pieces) before. It > was presenting it all in a package, in an emotional > manner, by an elderly, conseratively dressed > accountant who was representing a large > corporation whose job it is to help people obey the > government. > > [ My father was an accountant. He worked for > Deloitte-Touche, in fact. I don't expect accountants > to be passionate about government regs, and > especially not to advocate disobediance. Maybe > that's why this affected me so strongly. ] > > -- Marshall > > Marshall Clow Aladdin Systems <mailto:mclow@mailhost2.csusm.edu> > > Warning: Objects in calendar are closer than they appear. > > I think Bill Murray might take offense at being called an accountant. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

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RE: Fighting the cybercensor
by Sean Roach 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 09:09 PM 2/4/97 -0800, jim bell wrote: >At 08:15 PM 1/28/97 -0800, Steve Schear wrote: >>>The poor can not hope to match the tyrants bid as they only have 10% of the >>>wealth, the household knows that thier participation in an attempt on the >>>tyrant will get them killed. Even if the attempt was successful. >>>The people from the outside who would benefit from the bounty benefit more >>>by taking the tyrants offer and then trying again, i.e. tiger teams. >> >>I think a hole in your thinking is to assume that the assasins have no >>motive other than financial gain. I would submit that there are those that >>have the skills, training and a political agenda coherent with the >>wagerers, lacking only the financial incentive to make the risks >>acceptable. These wetworkers won't consider accepting the bribe of the >>rich/powerful ... > >However, fortunately I don't think it would make any difference in the >overall effects. While AP would eliminate the taxation which is commonly >thought of as the main way a "rich person" loses assets, in practice it >would also shut down the well-hidden systems that allow some people to get >rich (or, merely live off somebody else) "unfairly." Government agents >come to mind, of course. > The money doesn't necessarily come from taxation, the owner of a business takes a cut of whatever money is made even if that person is unproductive. The tyrant would be the owner of the industry. If you are right then governments would effectively lose the ability to tax, with or without representation, as most people do not agree on everything, like how their money is spent. However, even now, as pointed out in some recent posts, our tax money is used to foreward the goals of a few, these few want to eliminate guns, crypto, free speech, ect. Although we are in oppostition, our money is still used to foreward the goals. Not unlike what I heard about the U.S.S.R. in vietnam. The following is according to my source. When the Soviet Ambassitor to the U.N. was sick, thats when the aid to vietnam could begin, as the U.S.S.R was not there to veto it. Now the U.S.S.R. was forced to aid both sides, those that were in agreement with them politically, and the U.N., of which they were a member. End of source data. Even those who oppose the taxes would be forced to pay as it would be the army that would be collecting. Then they could take the remaining monies that they had to target the leaders, who would use the tax revinues to protect themselves. If more money was needed, nore taxes would be collected. If it were a private corporation, the wages of the workers would be reduced on occassion to pay for the different security systems of the owner. Additionally, under our current system, the assassin would have his day in court, perhaps he could escape the government, making the cost-benefit analysis skewed in favor of crime. Under a system as proposed, the assassin would be forced do deal with a more powerful curse. Insurance companies would be reconfigured to anonymously see to the death of whatever caused the death of thier clients. They would make money because if the death could be ruled accidental, they would not have to pay. If the person died of a heart attack, and the food taster didn't, (the food taster would probably be the cooks son by the way), then the bond that the tyrant had with the company would be void. The company would cash the check. If the tyrant wanted to insure h[is/er] survival, (s)he would take out several of these bonds, with different companies, each with a signature amount to give to the executors to check their loyalty. If the company paying 1295065 dollars didn't pay up, the executors would tell the world. The idea is, where a layer can be subverted, duplicate the layer so that at least one element is bound to work.

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Re: More on Cellular Encryption Docs
by Sean Roach 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 12:39 AM 2/5/97 -0800, Bill Stewart wrote: >>>>Here's more on the controlled documents for cellular encryption >>>>from TIA/EIA we described in a 26 January post to cpunks: >... >>>Of course, ITAR as recently modified says it's ok to send this >>>stuff overseas to foreigners, as long as it's on paper. >>>There may be separate restrictions on sending it, or on copying, >>>but they're based on copyright or contractual non-disclosure. >> >>Given that high-density inkjet printers can do 600x600 dpi resolution, it >>should be possible to achieve the equivalent of 100x100 bpi of >>easily-recoverable data on ordinary paper. That's about 800 kilobits, or >>100 kilobytes. What does ITAR say about this? > >These are text, perhaps with occasional illustrations, so the current >interim export rules say it's ok. > >For optically-scannable printed data, the government's announcement says >it reserves (somehow) its right (acquired in unspecified manner :-) >to re-evaluate the exportability at a later time. I think they >haven't settled on whether they'd be more embarassed by banning it >(which bans export of printed material, risking serious Constitutional >challenges) or by not banning it (having people laugh at them while >exporting source code or even binaries in OCR-A on loose-leaf paper >with page numbers and checksums.) ... Let's not tempt them with something that the common person on the street would consider computer media, I.E. punched cards and dataglyphs. Remember the old fonts that used to be everywhere? The ones with the thickened letters at key places? Look at a check some time, that is the type of font at the bottom, its designed to be readable by both man and machine. Print out the source code in one of those fonts and mail that. This is not as data intensive as the other way, but at least it can be argued that it can be read by an unaided person. That way, on the other end, the text can be scanned in directly, using a modified form of check clearing software, and converted into electronic media, sans errors.

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MA Electronic Records and Signature Act
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 19:08:30 -0500 (EST) To: Multiple Recipients of e$pam <e$pam(a)intertrader.com> From: e$pam(a)intertrader.com (e$pam) Reply-To: e$(a)thumper.vmeng.com X-Comment: To unsubscribe, send any email to e$pam-off(a)intertrader.com Precedence: Bulk Subject: MA Electronic Records and Signature Act X-orig-from: EskWIRED <eskwired(a)shore.net> X-e$pam-source: bounce-dcsb(a)ai.mit.edu Forwarded by Robert Hettinga ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 17:27:30 -0500 (EST) From: EskWIRED <eskwired(a)shore.net> To: dcsb(a)ai.mit.edu Subject: MA Electronic Records and Signature Act MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: bounce-dcsb(a)ai.mit.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: EskWIRED <eskwired(a)shore.net> A discussion draft of the MA Electronic Records and Signatures Act is now available on the web at http://www.magnet.state.ma.us/itd/legal/mersa.htm. The draft appears to be very preliminary--entire sections are marked [under development]. It is notable for its brevity, especially compared to the Utah Statute. Noticeably absent is any language dealing with licensure of certification authorities (bravo!). A link is provided for submission of public comments to Ray Campbell and Dan Greenwood. ========================================================= ---------EskWIRED(a)shore.net------------ ========================================================= ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To unsubscribe from the dcsb list, send a letter to: Majordomo(a)ai.mit.edu In the body of the message, write: unsubscribe dcsb Or, to subscribe, write: subscribe dcsb If you have questions, write to me at Owner-DCSB(a)ai.mit.edu -------------------------------------------------- The e$ lists are brought to you by: Intertrader Ltd - Java e$ Software Developers in the UK Visit <http://www.intertrader.com/> for details ... Where people, networks and money come together: Consult Hyperion http://www.hyperion.co.uk info(a)hyperion.co.uk Like e$pam? Help pay for it! See <http://www.atanda.com/rah.html> Or, for e$pam sponsorship, see <http://thumper.vmeng.com/pub/rah/> Thanks to the e$ e$lves: Of Counsel: Vinnie Moscaritolo <mailto:vinnie@webstuff.apple.com> (Majordomo)^2: Rachel Willmer<mailto:rachel@intertrader.com> Commermeister: Anthony Templer <mailto:anthony@atanda.com> Interturge: Rodney Thayer <mailto:rodney@sabletech.com> HTMLurgist: Cynthia Zwerling <mailto:czrider@@webstuff.apple.com> --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "Never attribute to conspiracy what can be explained by stupidity." -- Jerry Pournelle The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/rah/ FC97: Anguilla, anyone? http://www.ai/fc97/

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No Subject
by Bovine Remailer 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

http://www.cnn.com Congressman demonstrates ease of cell phone snooping

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Re: Getting into MIT is impossible
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 04:50 PM 2/5/97 +0100, P.J. Westerhof wrote: >At 18:12 4-02-97 -0800, you wrote: >>Erland van Lidth de Jeude is a MIT grad. He played the big badass in "Stir >>Crazy." Computer science major, BTW. >> >He is quite a singer too (at least he was some years ago on Dutch TV). >Perhaps that made the difference. ;-) He was on the fourth floor of the west parallel of East Campus, in about 1977 as I recall. I was on the third floor. He was a wrestler; I heard he didn't have to work all that hard, he could just sit on the opponent and he'd win. Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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Re: Letter Re: Kahn Supporting GAK
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 05:16 AM 2/5/97 +0000, Robert Rothenburg 'Walking-Owl' wrote: >My letter to Long Island Newsday regarding David Kahn's pro-GAK >editorial was published today. You can read it at > > http://www.newsday.com/mainnews/rnmi052u.htm > >What's odd (?) is how they editied it. I directed my comments toward >Mr. Kahn's views, which they changed to "Newsday" (odd, since I've >never seen them print an editorial one way or another on GAK; does >this mean they are taking a stand? -- Kahn is an editor at Newsday). > >I wrote "The greatest flaw in the argument is it's very reason, >'criminals... are increasingly using encryption to conceal their plans >and activities'" which they changed to "It reports...". I never >considered an op-ed piece as "reporting", even if it states a fact. But which "criminals," exactly, are "increasingly using encryption to conceal their plans and activities"? Let's not concede this unless it's really true. It would be far more accurate to say that it's likely that many people who are politically hostile to their government are using encryption in anticipation of persecution by the government, persecution that could easily come in the form of criminal charges. Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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mail list / sequence number & signature
by Corey Minter 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Have the list maintainers ever considered either or both of the following... (Sorry in advance if this has been brought up sometime in the past.) o adding a digital signature from "owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com", so someone can't mass mail the mailing list and make it appear that the message came from toad.com. I just tried to figure out if the id in the header is in any order but I couldn't tell. I have already deleted many messages so some numbers are missing anyway. o adding a sequence number to every message which comes through toad.com, so recipients can easily notice if mail is be accidentially or intentionally filtered by their service provider or any other forces. At the same time, you could add the current numbers for flame vs. non-flame. This would help end all the bandwidth wasted on people speculating about the numbers. say there are X total messages, Y non-flames, and Z flames then the appearance to subscriber (either in the subject or some header field) could be... list type | all non-flame flame ---- | --- --------- ----- non-flame | X (non-flame Y) Y (all X) flame | X (flame Z) Z (all X) -- Of course... these are my opinions, not my employer's. ______________________________________________________________________ Corey Minter | cminter(a)mipos2.intel.com | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Re: Letter Re: Kahn Supporting GAK
by Robert Rothenburg 'Walking-Owl' 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Good point: but I've seen a few refs from LEAs about "Drug Dealer X who we can't talk about" or "Child Pornographer Y who we can't talk about" (in lieu of cases being digested by the court system) so I didn't harp on that point. A point I did leave out was that if they already knew these people were criminals and were building cases against them, monitoring them enough to know they used crypto, then do they really need to bother with listening in to the exact message? I wanted to emphasize the phallacy of the sacrifical lamb of rights in the name of the god of security. Also, they mungled the letter enough, so it's better for LI Newsday (which caters to a reading level of the average 12-year-old) submissions to be kept short and sweet. I'm quite surprised that mine is the only letter they printed. Certainly they would have gotten more than one submission on a controversial subject? --Rob On 5 Feb 97 at 18:22, jim bell wrote: > But which "criminals," exactly, are "increasingly using encryption to > conceal their plans and activities"? Let's not concede this unless it's > really true. > > It would be far more accurate to say that it's likely that many people who > are politically hostile to their government are using encryption in > anticipation of persecution by the government, persecution that could easily > come in the form of criminal charges. > > > Jim Bell > jimbell(a)pacifier.com > > ----- "The word to kill ain't dirty | Robert Rothenburg (WlkngOwl(a)unix.asb.com) I used it in the last line | http://www.asb.com/usr/wlkngowl/ but use a short word for lovin' | Se habla PGP: Reply with the subject and dad you wind up doin' time." | 'send pgp-key' for my public key.

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