December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Recommendation: Creation of "alt.cypherpunks"
by snow 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> (Please leave my name in any replies to ensure I see your comments.) > I talked to Hugh Daniel at the Saturday meeting about the creation of an > "alt.cypherpunks" unmoderated (of course) newsgroup as a possible > alternative (or supplement) to cypherpunks(a)toad.com. Greg Broiles and John > Gilmore were there for part of the discussion, too. Might "we" get wider propigation with something like "talk.issues.crypto" or "talk.cypherpunks"? > Charter for alt.cypherpunks: (suggested) > "Alt.cypherpunks is for the unmoderated discussion of cryptography and the > political, social, and economic implications of unrestricted, strong > readers are strongly advised to learn how to use filters and other tools > for making virtual anarchies manageable for their own tastes." Maybe a pointer to these tools? > * Disadvantages -Mailing lists easily penetrate firewalls, while many places don't provide Usenet access. Another possibility would be to create a "private Usenet" setting up NNTP servers that _only_ talk to each other. This would eventually allow for the same sort of redundancy that the "regular" usenet offers, provide some of the same efficient use of resources, and ease of use (almost) but provide some protection against spammers & etc. For those who don't understand, this is how it would work (and correct me if I am wrong): Usenet works by servers exchanging messages with one or more other servers it is decentralized and has no central authority (execpt the cabal --there is no cabal) inherent in the process. These servers are told _who_ they get their feed from/to, so it should be possible to set up another network of Usenet servers just to serve our purposes. As part of setting up the servers, they can be configured as to who they From owner-cypherpunks Wed Feb 12 08:00:24 1997 Return-Path: owner-cypherpunks Received: (from majordom@localhost) by toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA22396; Wed, 12 Feb 1997 08:00:24 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199702121600.IAA22396(a)toad.com> Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 06:56:59 -0800 From: Lucky Green <shamrock(a)netcom.com> To: John Young <jya(a)pipeline.com> Cc: cypherpunks(a)toad.com Subject: Re: whois cypherpunks.org ? Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com Precedence: bulk At 08:04 PM 2/11/97 -0500, John Young wrote: [Trying whois] Eric Hughes and John Gilmore are fouders of this list. Aleph1 is the moderator of the famous bugtraq mailing list. -- Lucky Green <mailto:shamrock@netcom.com> PGP encrypted mail preferred "I do believe that where there is a choice only between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence." Mahatma Gandhi

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Re: Recommendation: Creation of "alt.cypherpunks"
by Jeremiah A Blatz 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- das(a)razor.engr.sgi.com (Anil Das) writes: > On Feb 11, 2:42pm, Alan Bostick wrote: > > new alt.* newsgroups are better > > received if they don't have top-level names. Using existing top-level > > hierarchies is better (e.g. alt.security.cypherpunks or > > alt.privacy.cypherpunks). > > I agree that alt.privacy.cypherpunks is the best bet, if alt.group > is the route we go. This has a number of frige benifits, too. It's lower down in the alphabetical list, so luser AOL-type people and auto-spam bots are less likely to reach alt.p* or alt.s* than alt.c*. Also, it seperates it from alt.cyberpunk and associated groups, thus maybe minimizing innappropriate x-posts. The hybrid mailing list/newsgroup system seems to me to be an excellent setup. It is resilliant to the moderation woes that a mailing list is vulernable to, and is also resistant to ISPs who don't carry alt groups. It also provides a set of mail-news gateways for people who wish to post anonymously to the newsgroup, whaile at the same time being resistant to commercial spam abuse (why use a mail-news to spam if it just goes to 1 newsgroup?). Finally, a newsgroup makes it easy to spread the gospel to the unwashed masses. Tim May's rants/essays would probably make excellent usenet memes, and having more usenet people crypto-aware can only help advance the causes of liberty and privacy. I hereby volunteer to do my best to handle all the newbie questions. Jer "standing on top of the world/ never knew how you never could/ never knew why you never could live/ innocent life that everyone did" -Wormhole -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQB1AwUBMwEULskz/YzIV3P5AQGgNQMAgPaMmS7Wcb4kT6Mc9ak3dLZ9GjdvZmtU ZDdkLhnnJ+3IFD1RWzo7gahEXDrJtFQ3QfWhcjC/0V9EMYWBr/ITa2esNXPiuCWW KyWYblVSCeYGdrzd0MK8MJXIjX5hWZ/A =emtl -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Moderation experiment almost over; "put up or shut up"
by John Gilmore 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> - Is a pentium up to the task of running a list of this size and > volume? A pentium is definitely up to this task. I've been running it the whole time on a slower 40MB SPARCstation-2 (that also runs netnews and general computing). Give it a big /var/spool partition (mine is 60MB) because every message will sit in the queue for days (*somebody* on the list will have an unreachable name server or MX server until the msg times out). Give it lots of RAM and paging space, since each sendmail process takes about 2MB virtual, 1.4MB physical, and you will have dozens running at the same time. The new version of majordomo (that allows confirmation of subscriptions) will help a lot. It needs a small patch though, to do exponential backoff on the lock file, or when you get a flood of messages, thirty majordomo processes will burn up the whole machine trying and failing to get the lock file. You'll need a BIG mailbox for the bounce messages, and someone (or some unwritten software) to scan it every day or two and delete the lusers whose mailboxes are full or who dumped their account without unsubscribing. The bounce mailbox on toad gets between 1 and 4MB of email a day; more when the list is under attack. You'll want to run the latest version of BIND on the machine, too, since doing DNS name-lookups on a thousand email addresses is expensive. You want them all in the in-memory cache on the same machine. The name daemon burns about 7MB virtual, 5MB real RAM once its cache gets loaded. Make sure that every message sent to the list gets into at least two logfiles -- on separate partitions, in case one fills up. At least if you want to have an archive of what's been sent. > I can provide a pentium box running Linux with a T1 connection to > MAE-West to host the list, if there is still interest. Make sure you are getting "transit" service to the Internet, instead of trying to cheap out with "peering" to a few major networks. Without transit service ("we'll carry your packets to anywhere even if the destination is not on our network") you won't be able to route packets to some places on the net. This will cause mail to those subscribers to sit in the queue for days and then bounce. The real issue is how willing you are to put your own time into dealing with problems. Not only do things go wrong by themselves, but there are malicious assholes in the world who will deliberately make trouble for you just because they like to. Spending a day or two cleaning up the mess is just part of the job. Check your level of committment two or three times before taking on the task -- so you won't end up getting disgusted after a month or two and putting the list's existence into crisis again. It's not a "set it up and forget it" kind of operation. John

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Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 19:18:46 -0600 (CST) > From: ichudov(a)algebra.com > Subject: Re: Moderation experiment almost over; "put up or shut up" > John Gilmore wrote: > > A pentium is definitely up to this task. I've been running it the > > whole time on a slower 40MB SPARCstation-2 (that also runs netnews and > > general computing). Give it a big /var/spool partition (mine is 60MB) > > because every message will sit in the queue for days (*somebody* on > > the list will have an unreachable name server or MX server until the > > msg times out). Give it lots of RAM and paging space, since each > > sendmail process takes about 2MB virtual, 1.4MB physical, and you will > > have dozens running at the same time. My approach to this problem has been to use a 1G drive and mount the entire file system on it. Swap and MS-Dos each get their own partitions. This allows the use of the entire drive as a buffer. I am in the process of adding another 1G in approx. two weeks with the intent of moving /home off the main drive. This not only gives the system more space but the users as well. I set swap to 4x main ram. I use Linux and have it as one giant partition even though suggested is blocks of 16M, works for me (YMMV). Would be minor to monitor df and alarm when it gets to 200M or something. I must admit however that I am looking at a faster mbrd. and a bigger hard drive in the immediate future to make up for the extra load I expect. Had not really planned on the remailer project however... > > You'll need a BIG mailbox for the bounce messages, and someone (or > > some unwritten software) to scan it every day or two and delete the > > lusers whose mailboxes are full or who dumped their account without > > unsubscribing. The bounce mailbox on toad gets between 1 and 4MB of > > email a day; more when the list is under attack. How about dumping the bounces to /dev/null? I shure don't care if some bozo's (other than mine that is) mailbox goes away. > > Make sure that every message sent to the list gets into at least > > two logfiles -- on separate partitions, in case one fills up. At > > least if you want to have an archive of what's been sent. I have no intention of acting as an archive. I personaly see that as a 'subscriber' issue. Potentialy even a business if the archive were suitably databased. Of course with the distributed model any member is potentialy capable of this. > > > I can provide a pentium box running Linux with a T1 connection to > > > MAE-West to host the list, if there is still interest. I would certainly be interested in your involvment with the Distributed Remailer. > > The real issue is how willing you are to put your own time into > > dealing with problems. Not only do things go wrong by themselves, but > > there are malicious assholes in the world who will deliberately make > > trouble for you just because they like to. Spending a day or two > > cleaning up the mess is just part of the job. Check your level of > > committment two or three times before taking on the task -- so you > > won't end up getting disgusted after a month or two and putting the > > list's existence into crisis again. It's not a "set it up and forget > > it" kind of operation. I can verify this. If I was not already having to deal with these problem as a current mailing list operator I certainly would not take on the job. It is one of the reasons I STRONGLY suggest anyone serious about this should use the resources to make money as well. Anyone capable of setting up and operating such a remailer system is at least capable of basic skills. > Another suggestion may be to set sendmail expire option to one day > instead of five so that messages that cannot be delivered would bounce > faster and not clog the queue. I like this idea very much. Myself I would set it for like 4 hours or so and if it couldn't be delivered then bye bye. Another motivation for selective sites to operate as archives without themselves being remailers. Another issue related to this is at what point to unsubscribe accounts. It seems to me that if the address times out some number of times it should be deleted. Is anyone interested in acting as a mail-to-news gateway? Jim Choate CyberTects ravage(a)ssz.com

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Win '95 disk crypto...
by harka＠nycmetro.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Forwarded message: In> Subject: SOFT> Encrypted disks for Windows NT In> From: softwinter(a)post1.com In> Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 03:13:22 +0200 (IST) In> Soft Winter Corporation, February 10, 1997 released: In> Shade - strong encryption software for Windows NT. In> Shade allows you to create encrypted disk device inside a file. In> Such a device can then be formatted using any file system In> (like NTFS or FAT) and used as a regular disk. The only difference In> is that Shade will encrypt the data on every write operation In> and decrypt it on every read operation. In> To download go to: http://softwinter.bitbucket.co.il In> Soft Winter Corporation, In> softwinter(a)post1.com Ciao Harka /*************************************************************/ /* This user supports FREE SPEECH ONLINE ...more info at */ /* and PRIVATE ONLINE COMMUNICATIONS! --> http://www.eff.org */ /* E-mail: harka(a)nycmetro.com (PGP-encrypted mail preferred) */ /* PGP public key available upon request. [KeyID: 04174301] */ /* F-print: FD E4 F8 6D C1 6A 44 F5 28 9C 40 6E B8 94 78 E8 */ /*<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>*/ /* May there be peace in this world, may all anger dissolve */ /* and may all living beings find the way to happiness... */ /*************************************************************/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAgUBMv/y1TltEBIEF0MBAQHJGAf8Cyqr97JIRraQNIS+ioHQiT5KDEozoI5w i7C1pEtMk39WX/dmmcECR561KS3/8595a4mf7bebJ9iS8Bl6ZewSHE6F/oo0biWn rLfmCVIAy23ADoww/rwLXhWxntybjQAr2kObbrPhtf8Um8KlmnJ24QTEWWbhugwx UgC+7N4gRAuxv4Qxoshey1oNeASx7cOQ3Q2REj3wsRq1WPFQMkB43lI5YcMQzlYX KgAoCRRLpnRIOpH5gq6qdC8QNs1cy3gZmfoFML/oqBhn0YaxiAs0Hz7LmlSpufgH +7APc4UpVvadRTTi65APbv1BAJQYq+dGo1fhp7Y+rgFYcEeCh4ZC8Q== =0p9D -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- If encryption is outlawed, only outlaws will have encryption...

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Re: List! No Way: Creati
by harka＠nycmetro.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- -=> Quoting In:attila@primenet.com to Harka <=- In> I vote we just set up a new majordomo with some additional In> antispam filters including knocking out exploding mail headers, In> etc. I would accept excluding non-members as long as we take the In> remailers which are listed with either JP or RL. Were it possible to use Perry's PGPDomo, which would effectively keep out at least the Spammers? Perry? :) Ciao Harka /*************************************************************/ /* This user supports FREE SPEECH ONLINE ...more info at */ /* and PRIVATE ONLINE COMMUNICATIONS! --> http://www.eff.org */ /* E-mail: harka(a)nycmetro.com (PGP-encrypted mail preferred) */ /* PGP public key available upon request. [KeyID: 04174301] */ /* F-print: FD E4 F8 6D C1 6A 44 F5 28 9C 40 6E B8 94 78 E8 */ /*<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>*/ /* May there be peace in this world, may all anger dissolve */ /* and may all living beings find the way to happiness... */ /*************************************************************/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAgUBMv/y/zltEBIEF0MBAQEnBQf/UVcg/iFUtR3hMk2zrNwZmweqE4XA3cLy ixfNNGoKO6cP0oUnSrqRoWW4LtMrHamMldBMXmFARmkh3joqgFZpzXSwCbiCSFtv yN7tDOmfzvDfI4gRpohuc7ou3rMMlbjs/lZamJAV5iByE8Kh3/phcvOmb5u9zjWK m/bcLsje39fLpIeMHL3y0jYf4Z5wyvb4dndBVeF+m50IguT9hVd3KZ4hza2XiKQr zPkX1Y2uDW1vq9/m2Wd9PLxnio5hrbOuLHdVFzTUxcVBfnJjMB0rrexW3z/2KqJ8 4V0r3xZXqui5z6k55PQTrVZt9Hqb+zVDoDAAA/tzMfHpVU+MOnM3Xg== =Jtwu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- If encryption is outlawed, only outlaws will have encryption...

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Remove
by unknown＠example.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Please remove our e-mail address from your services we received three viruses from erractic re-mail. Thank You Allen Woffard

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Re: Filling Power Vacuums
by joburger＠mail.evansville.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> heh. perhaps "leadership" involves more than posting. perhaps there > is a way to have "leadership" without hierarchy. perhaps "leadership" > is not equivalent to "management". perhaps sometimes > you win by losing, and lose by winning. perhaps water is so powerful > because it is lower than all that which it flows around. Could you explain the bit about having leadership w/o hierarchy. Yes ,if there is an informal leadership such as what Tim was refering to, then their is no heirarchy. However, as soon as people get designated as 'leaders' or 'moderators' then one has to have heirechy in that no matter how the various pieces of a system are arranged, they have to be arranged somehow, even completely at random. imho (which you seem to have so many of) you could spare the pseudo-Zen BS. > <Now, of course, the message is being sent that Sandy Sandfort is in some > <sense the de facto leader, being that he determines what traffic goes out > <to the main list and what traffic gets bounced into the flames list. In > <fact, I'll make a prediction: The media will see that he is the chief > <censor and arbiter of worthiness and will increasingly contact him for the > <Official Point of View on various items they are interested in. > > timmy, why are you so upset about the media angle? why do you give the > slightest damn what the media thinks? answer: because you want to be > the one they call when they want to know what the cypherpunks think. > you want them to pay attention to the cypherpunks. in short, you would > like to have the glamor of a leader, without any of the responsibility. I don't think he was suggesting this in the least, he is quite capable of defending himself. I don't particularly like the idea of someone that I had no part in choosing being seen as representative of my views. > I think you would be surprise at the realization that "leaders" exist > in those so-called "anarchies" Key word 'so-called' An anarchie is usually a conceptual ideal that is never reached, sorta like a democracy. > <I am resentful and suspicious of people who _do_ step into the > <"power vacuum" to lead and control. > <Now I grant you that Sandy's form of leadership and control is relatively > > apparently in your brain, "lead" == "control" Dosen't it though? How else can one 'lead'. Even if just by setting an example the leader is changing the follower's actions, e.g. controlling. Granted the follower is volentarily submitting to this control, but it is control none the less. Most other cases of hard leadership are not as nice. Josh

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Network of majordomos
by Greg Broiles 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- At 10:45 AM 2/11/97 -0600, Firebeard wrote: >[...] I've already taken steps, along with Jim Choate, to >start a network of majordomos hosting a Cypherpunks mailing list. >[...] Our intention is to have a set of majordomos which >are intersubscribed to a cypherpunks list on each one, with measures >taken to ensure that mail loops don't develop. I still think you're just rediscovering Usenet technology. Instead of installing Majordomo, why not install INN, pass traffic as newsgroup(s) (if you don't like alt.cypherpunks, you could simply start your own top-level cpunks group(s)), and leave your NNTP port(s) open (or read-only, if you're an evil CIA brain-stealing censor) so that cpunks at large could connect with newsreaders or their own servers and send/rcv newsgroup traffic? Many cpunks could do this (instead of using Majordomo) locally, connecting to each other to achieve wide propagation and low latency. And, if you must, run mail-to-news gateway(s) which send the newsgroup to people who want it as E-mail. Usenet technology does exactly what you're describing: it's a distributed database of messages designed to facilitate each server getting its own copy of every message, and holding it locally for distribution to interested readers. Other people have been kind enough to write, debug, and document the software - all you have to do is install it. This could be running tonight. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 4.5 iQEVAgUBMwDefP37pMWUJFlhAQGg8wf/R/XcPI7UTmiktI0ce0cR0x54O2pTr2ju WRZ3OXNV7X8xOmU8zhvj/Q6Rg0etZRmDfj9wM51mCZuOx6uh94IlFvBTpFnEz8Vg tM3zeWSt/SukyGfxRLkrRYF4GMU5eKEYBYI7p/3q6WioYBk4JI22EeAyr5Cn+1IA icMJhCpfUE6P1YoC+7zPh+Kbp8Ny3tCtry/axsSZfVRsBZr2M33VONe47quC1l5A CBEEllkeSZey6VfAhrBxLOGiD42evx/TYU1yeR2bhcHUcQ0e5MTR8o8eDBoreuXF ntT9vD0Ov0BEhP2j5r6xC6WcFX0iEynxwErC3nNURPE5CPCoRXws/w== =w4Av -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- Greg Broiles | US crypto export control policy in a nutshell: gbroiles(a)netbox.com | http://www.io.com/~gbroiles | Export jobs, not crypto. |

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Re: Shade Disk Encryptor for NT Registration key
by Bill Stewart 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>SoftWinter Support >softwinter(a)post1.com >http://softwinter.bitbucket.co.il Shade looks like an interesting product, and anything that fits into 64K these days (even if that is the size of the zip file) deserves some respect :-) For cypherpunks - it's using MDC as its crypto algorithm, with 160-bit SHA as the hash. I can't tell if that's the original SHA or the revised SHA-1. The readme.txt is adapted from Peter Gutmann's MDC documentation. The demo version runs for 21 days, and doesn't do encryption, so perhaps the real thing is a bit larger. List price is $149 US. I couldn't get it to run - I'm using NT 3.51, which you haven't tested it on, rather than NT 4.0; it complained about not being able to find Image_List_SetImageCnt in COMCTL32.dll or something like that. Perhaps that's related to not having installation instructions with the demo? there's a SecDisk.sys that looks like it wants something done with it... Or perhaps it's just a 3.51 vs. 4.0 difference. Oh, well... > Shade allows you to create encrypted disk device inside a file. > Such a device can then be formated using any file system > (like NTFS or FAT) and used as a regular disk. The only difference > is that Shade will encrypt the data on every write operation > and decrypt it on every read operation. I assume it's possible to use this for TEMP directories for applications like word processors. I'm not sure I'd want to use it for swap, but do you know if that would work? # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com # You can get PGP outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto/pgp # (If this is a mailing list, please Cc: me on replies. Thanks.)

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