December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 12:42:58 -0700 > From: "James A. Donald" <jamesd(a)echeque.com> > Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) > Microsoft is not a monopoly. In servers, where much of their > income comes from, Malarky, MS makes the vast majority of their money off end-user and single machine licenses. Look at their quarterly or yearly earning statements. > Linux is eating their lunch, It is certainly growing but the fact is that by a factor of orders of magnitude commercial Unix'es own that market. When it comes to mission critical servers Solaris, HP, & AIX own the market still. > and the > desktop is under continual threat. For a monopoly to be a > monopoly, you not only have to have most of the market, you > have to have some means of excluding others, which Microsoft > manifestly does not. Not from a lack of trying on their part and the fact that federal regulators stepped in before it became totaly regulated. > You are totally deluded. None of these are examples of > monopoly, Certainly they were. Each and every example listed (and many more) were industries which were controlled by a small number of companies whose share in the total market was squeezing out competition. The results would have been a growing number of buyouts and thinning of competition to the point that only one or two companies would have survived. except for the railroad industry where government > intervention was for the purpose of creating monopoly, not > preventing it. In the aircraft industry for example, while the number of riders was growing very quickly there was a concommitent increase in end-user ticket prices that was way out of line with the increased cost of business operations as well as a decrease in the overall safety of the industry which was exemplified by a increase in the number of air crashes and aircraft who couldn't pass maintenance inspections yet continued to fly. > The garment and food packing industries were and are a huge > network of innumerable tiny shops, All working for about 5 or 6 companies who actlualy marketed and distributed the items. Just get a Dallas Texas phone book for that period (it's a distribution hub for the clothing/garment industry even today). > and the aircraft industry > had several big companies in fierce competition.=20 Yep, in the mid-50's there were like 5 national/international aircraft operators and the number of commercial avaition manufacturers selling to the national and international carrier market was like 3. There were smaller companies like Ryan for example but they were owned by the larger companies and eventualy merged into the regular operations. ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > From: Matthew James Gering <mgering(a)ecosystems.net> > Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) > Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 13:14:16 -0700 > > Microsoft got to where it is because of a lack of regulation > > Microsoft is not a monopoly by any stretch of the imagination. They own 90% of the desktops in this country, that's a monopoly or a company a hair-breadth's away. > > The railroad industry in the mid-1800's. > > Railroads were highly competitive in the East. The railroad monopolies > in the West were created by exclusive government land grants. Not true until after the 1890's. Prior to that the railroads in the US were owned by a total of like 5 people. ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 12:35:49 -0700 > From: "James A. Donald" <jamesd(a)echeque.com> > Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) > > Malarky. Reputation is irrelevant, just examine the > > prisoners delima. > > Yet strange to report, the banks have no problem with granting me many tens > of thousands of dollars of unsecured credit. Which is exactly my point, default on a single one of those and watch what happens. > Perhaps your reputation is irrelevant. Mine, however, is obviously= > relevant. Only to you. What is important is the *fact* that you continue paying the bills. Default and all the *desire* in the world won't bring back those loans. > The continued solvency of Informix, rental car agencies, and so on and so > forth looks indicates it is possible to readily distinguish between those > who will defect in a game of prisoners dilemma, and those who will= > cooperate. That's so funny. Please produce the amount Informix lost by employee theft last year for example. If it's zero then you may have a point. I'll bet you it wasn't and isn't. ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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17 Dec '03

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RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 12:11:04 -0700 > From: "James A. Donald" <jamesd(a)echeque.com> > Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) > At 05:28 AM 10/2/98 -0500, Brown, R Ken wrote: > > Nonsense. Most of those businesses became monopolies - or > > local monopolies - in the relatively unregulated 1880-1914 > > period.=20 > > Untrue: Actualy it is. But I'd certaily entertain any evidence you may want to present to your case...other than just saying it over and over. > > In some of them - like rail or oil in the USA - governments > > introduced regulation to *force* competition.=20 > > In the case of the railways, the governments granted and > imposed monopolies. Only after the early 1890's when the situation got so bad they had to do something. Prior to that there was no federal intervention in railroad operations per se (I say that because the US government used the railroads at a very hefty discount). > In the case of oil, I assume you are > referring to "Standard Oil", there was no monopoly, and the > government regulation had little apparent effect.=20 You assume wrong. I am talking of the entire oil industry as a whole. > Also the Standard Oil issue was about refineries, not oil > wells or oil pipelines. There was nothing to prevent any man > or his dog from setting up a refinery, and lots of them did. The issue in the oil industry isn't the refineries or pipelines or any of that other stuff. It's mineral rights. And every drop of mineral rights in this country is owned by oil companies or the US government as a result of the conflicts that took place from the late 1800's to the early 1900's. > > Recently government has forcibly broken up gas supply > > monopolies in this country. =20 > > After first forcibly creating gas supply monopolies. Actualy the local and state regulators did that back in the late 50's and early 60's the federals had no hand in it. The same happend prior to the TVA projects of the late 20's and 30's with the electric production industry. > > What happens much more often is that one company becomes > > dominant and then uses money to undersell rivals. > > Why don't you argue that they conduct sacrifices to Satan? Because then he would be doing what you like to do, change the subject and claim it's the same thing. > A big company has no monetary advantage over a small company. You know nothing of how large businesses work over small ones then. > Suppose Firm A controls 90% of the market and firm B controls > 10% of the market. Artificially low prices cost the big firm > nine times as much as the small firm. Bullshit math. The interactions are nowhere near as simple as you state. The big company has the resources to outlast the smaller company in any industry that can monopolize (an issue you seem to miss, not all industries can monopolize) and if its' smart will buy the smaller company at some point (unless prevented) as the smaller companies becomes resource starved. > Under capitalism, the > small company can duke it out on equal terms with the big > firm, and with great regularity, that is exactly what they > do. Examples please where a small firm dukes it out (sic) on equal terms with a larger one... > Garbage (what we call rubbish over here) collection is > > different again. It's not at all a nutural monopoly and > > there is nothing stopping anyone offering to do it as a > > business. But it is a natural for social ownership, > > You mistake the political adventures of your local elite for > universal laws. In some parts of the world rubbish > collection is private. In just about everyplace in the US the company doing the trash collection and dumping is private, especialy in the bigger cities. They may be working under contract for the city but the company is privately held. My suspicion is that most places on the planet, excluding control markets like Cuba, use private companies under contract for this. > In other parts of the world shoe > production is public. What country produces shoes as a function of government agency and prevents private shoe production? I must admit I nearly hurt myself laughing at this one. > In one of those nordic countries, I think Finland, the phone > system was never made a public enterprise or state regulated > monopoly, but most other things were. Then how does it operate? Who owns the switches and wires? Either it's a public utility or it's some sort of private enterprise (though it may be under contract to the government). > There is no "natural monopoly" that is not somewhere a A 'natural' monoploy, to my mind, is a company that operates in an industry that can be saturated. By saturation I mean that the demand of the market can be met by a small number (approaching 1 if left unregulated over time, usualy by by-outs or business experation) of manufacturers. The VCR industry is a great example of a 'natural' monopoly. Only a few years ago *every* VCR mechanism on the planet was made by one of 5 companies and with the cessation of Curtis-Williams, not one of them was a US company. It is not possible to buy a VCR designed and made in the US today because of this market monopolization. It is also impossible to start such a company because the costs of market entry are too enormous. There is *no* government regulation of the VCR industry outside of EOE issues to this day. ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 11:40:34 -0700 > From: "James A. Donald" <jamesd(a)echeque.com> > Subject: Re: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... > Observe that the level of harm is approximately proportional > to the level of government regulation. Please be so kind as to demonstrate by example why you believe that by de-regulating the food industry, for example, we would recieve better quality foodstuffs? Without regulation why would these companies quit mixing their products and making better systems of quality control so that the cases of E. Coli for example would decrease? Why is it that the number of deaths in this country from salmonella and related food diseases have *decreased* since the industry was regulated in the early 1920's when the problem (people getting sick or dying from adulterated foodstuffs) was at its peak? Just look at the current issues related to non-pasteurized fruit juice prodcts for a current example of the consequences of free-market economics lack of regulation and by extension responsibility and the consequences thereof. > You presuppose that government officials will be more > virtuous than private individuals. This is obviously > unlikely, since they have less reason to fear retribution > than private individuals. It's the private companies fearing retribution from the government, not the end user. Your reasoning is faulty. In an industry that is completely unregulated by anyone other than the consumer and the producer the consumer will be taken advantage of. The reason is that there is no real-world market force that will force compliance. Now some are going to scream that the consumer will, the problem is that the consumer is denied the information about/from the producer they require in order to make the reasoned judgement. The bottem line as to why free-market economies don't work is that it isn't in the producers best interest to have a educated consumer. They might buy somebody elses product or start their own company. Both of those are bad for profits. Free-market mavens forget that producers are just as greedy and corrupt as everyone else, there is no fair competition in an unregulated market given the pshychological make up of human beings. ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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No Subject
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 12:59 PM 10/3/98 -0400, Michael Motyka wrote: >> There is a desert which is 1000 miles across. There is a camel who can carry >> 1000 bananas maximum. The camel eats 1 banana per mile travelled. The camel >> has a total of 3000 bananas to begin with. What is the maximum number of >> bananas that the camel can get across to the other side uneaten? > >My camels don't understand/can't eat fractional bananas. Why are bananas quantized in the presense of camels? Is this a quantum-computing thing?

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Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 01:04:20 +0100 > From: Adam Back <aba(a)dcs.ex.ac.uk> > Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) > If your aim is to maximise crypto deployment, use BSD or some other > relatively free distribution license other than GNU, so that we can > more rapidly write and deploy crypto software to undermine the power > of the state. With the proviso that the original author looses all access to profits from that code, effectively doing the R&D for untold numbers of companies without compensation or even recognition (they can claim it's all theirs at that point because they don't have to release the source). ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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RE: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > From: "Blanc" <blancw(a)cnw.com> > Subject: RE: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd) > Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 21:09:55 -0700 > Free market economices don't "work", simply because they are run by humans, who regularly suffer > psychological breakdowns, envy, and mistakes of judgement, not to mention disreputable marketing > departments. Regulated economies, however, are run by government drones, and are therefore perfect > vehicles which, with unfailing success, make all of their captive customers happy. > Not so, but I appreciate the sense of irony in your comment. > Everyone knows this, as we witness the apparent success of all those regulated economies overseas > which outshine the U.S. by three (maybe four) orders of magnitude. No one over there envies the > U.S. productivity and standard of living, and they never are moved to leave and come live over here, > to give up the benefits which extreme regulation confers upon them, in place of the (admittedly > mixed) free-market fiasco which operates over here, where all things are uncertain and frighteningly > unpredictable. Simply because people see a better place does not imply it is the *best* place. Selecting the lesser of two evils does not magicaly make one a goodness. It's still an evil. > In fact, many people become so disgusted with the monopolies and disfunctional liberty which exists > here, that they regularly expatriate to go live in places like Sweden, Germany, even Canada, where > they have the peace of mind and assurance that State coercion will provide for their every need - > in a most efficient, timely, prompt, and user-friendly manner. > They never have to worry about who has more or less, who is better or worse, or who knows better > than anyone what is best for everyone. It's all been pre-established and exists incontrovertibly in > their national consumer database. It would be nice if you said something other than "I disagree". It would really be nice if you cold describe specific examples and hypothesis, but that obviously is asking too much. Ah well. ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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